I know I have experienced that for the first time in my life this year, (I'm in my mid 40's), the ability to sit at rest and to have my RLS symptoms completely - COMPLETELY removed.
After Miripexin, Tramadol, Comedienne, L-Dopa, stopping alcohol/nicotine/caffeine, Magnesium, Potassium and Iron supplements and a variety of home remedies I found Kratom. It is a is a tropical tree in the coffee family that has been used for medicinal purposes:
I am recommending this to everyone/anyone with RLS as to take something that so dramatically removes my RLS and allows me to sit still, (never thought I would be able to do that!), to lie in bed and even though I may not sleep I can rest, (and man that feels amazing), is the most beautiful experience I have had in my life!!
It is not legal everywhere, although it is much much safer than any of the prescription drugs used to treat RLS:
Hmmm...read the page you linked....think I'll pass, thanks, but all information helps, it's up to the individual to research it and decide for themselves if they want to take it further...
Hello, I really hope you see this. I have Severe rls and I gave this a shot. It's gone! Seriously, my rls is completely gone with kratom. I for one really hope you try it. It saved my sanity.
I use red vein Borneo and find I need about a teaspoon full dissolved in grapefruit juice (using a proper teaspoon measure) twice a night. It only lasts about 4 hours unfortunately. Sometimes I need less - as little as half a teaspoon if my iron levels are high and I’m not withdrawing from taking neupro (I alternate the two every few weeks). At the moment 1 tsp is not enough as I remained on neupro too long and started to augment.
Sometimes I use it during the day to keep myself awake (its great for that) and then I use green Bali for preference.
Hey are you still taking Kratom 3 years later I've been taking mine for about a year-and-a-half and it's starting not to work anymore and I have to up my dose how are you doing
This has been posted before on the forum, not sure by who. I read the original post and didnt like what i read about this stuff. It would be illegal in the UK anyway.
in reply to
No not illegal in the UK I live in the UK and recieved some of it a month ago. Some info here:
From my use of it I have found it to be a god send - as said to have for the first time in my life true relief without all the terrible side-effects is amazing.
The Mirapexin I tried made me want to die and the resulting exacerbation of symptoms has made life more difficult. Wish I had of heard of Kratom first
I normally get a red veined Borneo and typically take about 5 - 7.5 grams of the stuff once a day at about 6pm, (or maybe 4am if I am woke out of my sleep with the rls.
In the beginning I would mix it with a little water until I got a paste then add more water and then gulp it down. Then I bought an encapsulating machine from Amazon and take around 15 capsules.
Hello, I have done a ton of research. I order from a company called Happy Hippo. For rls buy the Bali kratom, it's a red strain. Put it in real warm water. I take two teaspoons about 30 min before bed. It does taste awful, but it works. Hope this helps
Although I don't find Kratom to be the most effective cure, tastes awful and is expensive - it is DEFINITELY worth trying if you truly have severe RLS. I would have tried anything before I got it under control. Especially when it's a natural herb that's been used for thousands of years with no recorded deaths.
I would have used it more often but it made me feel really sick after drinking it and I found another herb to be more effective and easier to take.
I think you've done a good thing by sharing this here, as I did in my post too.
Its awesome - helps me sleep too. I use red vein - seems more relaxing than the white or green for me. I no longer need any of the meds i was prescribed. Ive had terrible anxiety & RLS since I was in my mid 20’s.
Weed isnt legal in the UK which you would of course know. But i have tried it in the past and it didnt help my RLS. So no, not got an aversion to stuff that a doctor wouldnt give. But do have an aversion to that stuff you are taking. I dont like the sound of it, the side effects of it or anything about it. So, for me the debate is over.
in reply to
With the cannabis, did you try differing strains? I have found that some strains do nothing for my RLS while others help a bit, (although none offer complete respite).
Would like to research into hemp oil but not a good time at present.
Thanks for your reply btw. What of the side effects did you not like the sound of?
CBD oil (hemp — without the THC and also legal) has been a Godsend for me. I take it it help me get back to sleep after being rudely awakened in the middle of the night.
I'm glad it's working for you, but on a study of over 500 people it wasn't found to be effective in any of them. It doesn't help me at all either. It's the THC part of the plant that is known for it's RLS benefits, so I wonder what's going on?
They have two types of hemp plants...one sold over the internet are called industrial hemp (it has no THC..zero THC so they say). The second type has the THC most of the research has been done on the Indica marijuana plant. The Indica has a large array of cannibinoids which is what makes it a better choice for pain. Folks that study say that you need the plant that has the THC in order for it to be effective. 1 to 1 ratio is the best.
I find the gummies to be the most effective for RLS relief works better than the inhaler. I find that the marijuana has a synergistic effect with opiods. Have been taking norco 60 mgs a day. When the norco quits working you add the indica and
Hi!! So CBD has helped? I want to shop taking Kratom because of the mood altering effects... Basically your only happy when u take Kratom... Over it. I've been reading about CBD and that it really works for RLS. I have it severely.. So bad.
I think that Ert223 is saying that CBD alone is not so helpful. It should be potentiated by a certain percentage of THC. The problem is that the THC portion of the cannabis plant is forbidden by law in most jurisdictions, because the politicians fear that it will make you feel "high."
There are over 100 cannabinoids many have their own specific effect and others have a synergistic effect.
Whole spectrum cannabis oil is the best way to take cannabis , you could have less THC in it but THC is the best at bringing pain relief. The reason we aren't allowed proper cannabis is not because people can get high on it - people can get high on MANY prescription drugs (co-codamol, Codeine, Oxycodone, Diazepam, Temazepam, Cough Syrup. to name just a couple off the top of my head) PLUS they have the added hazard of being toxic and addictive.
Cannabis is none of those things but, and its a BIG BUT - if cannabis is allowed to be used medically then that not only negates many drugs but it means people can grow their own medicine and not have to buy from Big Pharma, that is a big wad of cash out of those businesses men and women's pockets - and that just can't be allowed. We MUST suffer so long as rich people can get richer.
Take a look at what some of the other cannabinoids can do:
We're doesn't relieve RLS, I have taken Mirapex and Clonazepam and Ropinerole, All those knock me out. I can't take them during the day, for DAYTIME RLS this is the only possible relief I have found, Let me know if there is a daytime non drowsy method other than Kratom.
Noopept. It's a nootropic. I stumbled upon it by chance. It is considered very safe and has been around for a long time. It is prescribed by doctors in Russia where it was invented.
I don't know why (research needs to be done properly in a lab) but it reduced my RLS symptoms dramatically. I just can't get hold of it any more. Worth a try if you're desperate and can find it.
They sell the Kratom on internet. Also Norco has a stimulating effect for most people. If the Norco quits working smoke some indica marijuana 1 to 1 ratio.
Norco you need a prescription but it is better than laying around all day...getting nothing done.
Wizz I know they have a Clonazepam that is a quick melt put it in your mouth it hits your brain in about 5 minutes. And it does not knock you on your butt. The other two you mentioned I do not know about. Plus they have the Clonazepam in a regular blah flavor and a real tasteeee grape. As much as I like candy I keep away from the grape flavour otherwise i would be eating them all day. I know with the opiod norco most folks get an energetic effect from it. I have been offered methadone by my Doc but took a pass on it. I have other things that help the norco. 5 years and at the same dose. Best of luck.
Elise I just noticed your post although it's 3 years old. I joined this just to reply and I truly hope you have changed your mind. It's perfectly ok that you don't want to try kratom. I, however, have a huge problem with the comment on "I won't take it if it's not doctor ordered" that's just ignorance on you part, I'm sorry! Please educate yourself on all the drugs "legally" prescribed in this country causing epidemics in today's society. And understanding why pharmaceutical companies push for completely harmless "natural herbs" (kratom) to be illegal. Understand what you are saying before you speak! Thank You! Oh... and by the way just because it's doctor ordered does not mean it will work by any means!!!!!
I dont know who you are but go and bother some one else. And re-read what i said 3 years ago for god sake. I tried cannabis and it didnt help my RLS, and definately not from a doctor! SO, i didnt say.... i wont take it if its not ordered by a doctor.. on taking the Kratom. My own choice of not taking it. OK.!!!!!!
I have found that there are about 5 or 6 Cannibus strains for RLS. Type Cannibus for RLS in the search and they will come up. I am in an illegal state so for now our of luck. I did drop the Amytriptoline and that did help.
Noignorance when you refer to the post by Elisse I assume that you are referring to her comment higher up on this thread?
If so then what she actually said when asked if she has an aversion to all substances that aren't provided by a doctor her response was and I quote "So no not got an aversion to stuff that a doctor wouldn't give "
Her personal view on Kratom is her own choice
Please educate yourself on reading members replies correctly
You just joined on the 24th. I strongly suggest that you read current posts and not 3 year old posts, and read EVERYTHING and not just pick out the stuff you do not like. We do not deal with rudeness on thios forum. Elisse is one of the people here with lots of RLS knowledge. I manage groups with over 6,000 people off this site. As with everything, there are always at least 2 sides to every subject. I have tried it all, trust me, and have been leading groups for 25 years. i am from the US. Kratom is legal in some states, but only about half of them. But, since this is your first week here, this is not how we talk to other members. There are groups for kratom withdrawal, just like almost anything else. I smoke cannabis, and the right strains can be heaven for some people. but I would never touch kratom for many reasons. I know many people who love it, and also know many people for whom it was disaster. no one thinfg works for everyone. you will get much better responses if you treat fellow members with respect and empathy. I suggest you take it down a notch and show some respect for long time members. what do YOU use for RLS? I can promise you I weill have heard of it, and so will Elisse, and most of this forum. so let's start over, since we are all in the same boat here. attacking people will get you nowhere fast. thanks. calling well respected members or anyone ignorant is a horrible start!
I don’t know what to do! I am on Methadone, my doctor lowered my dose, now my restless legs are crazy! I had purchased a little bag of Kratom (unicorn) from my ecig shop , and I am kinda afraid to try it , just wanted some advice.
'Noignorance' an ironic user name considering what you have written. Read and understand comments properly before you write a reply. It is 'ignorant" to base your whole argument on something you have clearly misread . I suggest you take a little longer reading things in the future. This forum is to give help, advice and support to all of us who suffer with RLS. It is not a place to insult members just because they may hold a different opinion to you. You tell someone you have never met to "educate herself" when you are the person who has made the mistake by not reading what she wrote. If you are really a decent and kind person who had just had a bad day then I am guessing you will want to apologise to Elisse for misquoting her.
talk your stuff bro. Everyone in here is allowed free speech but u? They don’t like what u wrote but it’s funny people liked it so other people must of felt the same way.
I have tried several strains and cannot tell the difference in them - I generally go for a Bali one.
I have never been high on it, (like yourself I don't want to get high I want relief).
As I have read if you take a small dose it energises, a larger dose sedates. I took about 7.5 grams in a single dose around 6pm so as to let me be as comfortable as possible for as long as possible, (lasted about 6 hrs and the RLS pain was well under control even 10 hours after this but the legs were restless after about 6hrs). I only took the one dose to get over the worst time.
No you've mixed it up, it's Indica strains which should be most helpful with RLS. Sativa strains produce a more energetic high but are still effective.
I've never really noticed that! I've read so much about Sativa/Indica and the differences but they feel the same to me.
Differing strains do better or worse for my various health conditions - some might work on pain but not on the nausea as good. Some help with sleep yet are no good for RLS. I found Strawberry Cough - a Sataiva good for sleep and Sensi Star an Indica no more sedating.
I've had the same problem discerning any difference in Kratom strains - tried white, green and red varieties and they all seem much of a muchness.
Has anyone in the UK bought any Kratom since the new travesty of psychoactive substances legislation was introduced? I have some stockpiled and could do with using it at times but am holding on as i fear I'll not be able to get more
For all of us under British rule technically we can no longer drink tea and coffee as they are both psychoactive substances!!!!!
As it so happens the reason I'm on this site at all is because I'm currently trying to stop using Kratom (found this thread while researching) and one of the withdrawal symptoms is extreme restlessness. I don't have RLS so I'm just posting this as a warning, Kratom can be extremely addicting and the lack of serious side effects from use make it all the more appealing to continue using. If you're one of those people who can use it only when needed, props to you and shouldn't be a problem. However, if you struggle to use addictive substances sparingly, exercise caution as I can only imagine that since I don't have RLS and am experiencing this much restlessness, it might be quote worse for someone who has the actual condition.
Many substances are addictive/habit forming - can I ask was your Kratom use medicinal or recreational? Many have used Kratom to come off stronger opioids:
May I ask how many grams of kratom per day you were ingesting at the time when your usage was at its highest? I'm just trying to get a feel for how many grams we're talking about. One gram per day? A hundred grams per day?
Raffs, I concur 100% with you regarding the amazing benefits of Kratom for RLS sufferers. I use between 3 and 8 grams per day. As with any medicine where a tolerance may develop, the smart user will not overindulge to the point where efficacy is thereby compromised. Unlike opioids, Kratom overdose does not risk respiration shutdown, but will likely cause nausea. This plant is easily much safer than commonly prescribed alternatives.
Its just a pity the pharmaceutical industry has such control. If people were able to use all the plants that are growing naturally around the globe there'd be a lot less chemical drugs being used.
Also the poor would save and the rich would loose out a little so naturally it can't be allowed
I have had RLS as long as I could remember, my father had it and my grandfather had it. Sometimes it get so bad that I put ice packs on my legs to calm my restlessness. I have tried Ropinerole, Neupro and Levidopa. The Levidopa has worked great but i notice a need to up the dosage every so often. I met someone, a nurse who uses Kratom for her RLS. I figured I would give it a try- so far amazing. It has greatly improved my RLS symptoms which were starting to creep back with the Levidopa. I hate having to rely on medication for the rest of my life but sometimes you have to. I feel the pros out way the cons with Kratom, so i will continue to use. Has anyone using Kratom for RLS have to up their dosage after awhile because they started developing a tolerance?
When I took it regularly I did have to increase but not really past the 7/8g mark. I've only been using it sporadically this past while, only when I have to go on long car journeys or the like and take the same dose I used to but don't notice its effects as much which I put down to a cross tolerance with Oxycontin.
Glad to hear of your success, long may it last. What sort of dosage are you using and have you had to increase much?
Raffs, can I ask are you using Kratom sparingly because of legality/availability issues or for some other reason?
I too am delighted to have discovered Kratom. It is the perfect strength to deal - just about - with my rls urge-to-move symptoms.
Without it, I would be dependent on OxyContin which causes central sleep apnea in me and hugely exacerbates my rls related alerting/insomnia so that I lie awake (happily mellow but it's still no use for normal functioning) literally all night.
Kratom enables me to limit my use of neupro to intermittent which I hope means it will remain an option for much longer before I augment.
Fortunately I do not have an addictive personality (although I did fall victim to the compulsive behaviour side effect when in a high dose of pramipexole).
I do understand that Kratom can induce physical dependency as well as addiction but I have stopped taking it from time to time and find it is a breeze by comparison with stopping OxyContin which is hard - really unpleasant withdrawals. Oxy in turn is a walk in the park to withdraw from by comparison with pramipexole. And what do I notice? Lo, the most difficult drugs to withdraw from were prescribed legally! Why oh why can my Kratom not also be legal in which case I could be certain of dose, quality etc.
I use it sparingly as I have reasonable drugs from the Dr at the minute which although don't leave me symptom free - I still have bad sleepless nights often I can cope. If things get worse than usual or I have to go on an outing I would maybe use some.
However I try not to use it as I don't know if I will be able to get more so need to keep it for when the drugs fail and I am left with nothing for a while, well I'll have the Kratom
Can I ask whats wrong with being dependant on a drug, we have health problems and need them. No one questions a diabetic yet many are insulin or tablet dependent. Many people using BP & Cholesterol drugs are dependent on them to keep their levels normal when maybe lifestyle changes would be enough!
We are victims of out bodies and as such we should not be made feel more guilt because of the class of drugs that are used to treat the problem.
People using opioids to control pain should be quite safe from addiction, those using their drugs to medicate boredom or emotional difficulties are more likely to get in trouble.
I have absolutely no problem with being dependent on a drug if it is required to treat my condition. What I want to avoid is becoming dependent on something that is more than I need. In other words, I want whatever it is I am dependent on to be the absolute minimum required to treat my condition. And obviously I want to optimise so that whatever drug I end up dependent on is the one that causes least difficulties for me in terms of side-effects, travelling etc.
Oxycontin causes a pretty miserable time for me in withdrawal - to the extent that in the last few months I deferred stopping the last 5mg pill for a while to put off going through the withdrawals. I don't want to be dependent on a drug just because I don't want to go through the withdrawals.
Not sure you'll get this message since I am new to this board but I've had to go through withdrawl in order to have the medication reset my tolerance. One of my worse symptoms in withdrawal is RLS and since I don't want to keep increasing my dose of strong pain meds, I am in moderate withdrawl all the time. I heard about Kratom recently and was hoping it could help me decrease my dosage of pain medication. The RLS that comes in the night and early morning hours feels like torture.
I would second that description of torture. Kratom helps control rls in most people who take it but I just don't know if it would cover the symptoms which emerge on opioid withdrawal.
I have read that rls is one of the symptoms of withdrawal from kratom also so I'm not sure how the whole lot will synergise. It is certainly worth trying though. As Raffs said it is widely used as an aid to opioid withdrawal.
There are numerous other diy suggestions from forum users on here from stretches to supplements and topical applications for the legs. It is worth searching through as you might find something that helps manage the rls. Good luck.
Incidentally I have not had to increase my dose since I started taking it though in fairness I have only been on it for a few months. It is very unpalatable and becomes increasingly so in higher doses which is enough of a disincentive for me.
I have thought about it but I find that the amount I take is just about bearable dissolved in grapefruit juice. I tried taking a stronger dose for a while because my understanding was that at higher doses Kratom is always sedatory and I thought it might overcome my alerting. Boy was it difficult to get it down at the higher dose. And it didn't really help to get me to go to sleep. So now I continue with the grapefruit juice because I know it will act as a considerable disincentive to increasing the dose if I find I start wanting more of it.
I find kratom dissolves quite well and palatable in room temperature almond milk! I add a little raw cacao powder for strong tasting strains and vary strains to avoid tolerances. So far, I only need a 1.25 to 1.5 tsp to achieve 5 hours if blissful sleep and am mostly RLS free as long as I super hydrateby drinking half my body weight in ounces daily.
It's funny, I found this trying to find info on the RLS that I experienced while withdrawing from kratom. I'm sure it does help if you don't take it often, but if you take it every day and stop, you will want to saw your arms and legs off at night. I'm not kidding. Luckily, I found that klonopin will relieve that symptom. I actually like kratom, but the side effects can get bad.
I'd imagine like any drug constant heavy use will end up with rebound effects. Coming off tramadol the RLS was off the scale! As with aall substances use with caution after education!
There is a lot of misinformation out there, so be careful where you get your education from. Some advocacy/anti-pharma groups tell you the withdrawal is like caffeine withdrawal & not a big deal, while it clearly is more than that. It all comes down to if you can stick to using it a few times a week or not. Otherwise, tolerance ramps up pretty quickly with kratom. Heavier use leads to constipation and upper intestinal issues as well, so yes, be careful.
So... I came across this post 3 days ago and long story short. I owe you my sanity! Seriously! I gave it a shot and almost cried! I have tried everything out there, and they all make me really sick. It's been 3 days and my rls is totally gone! I can't thank you enough!
lol - that was my experience the first time I tried Kratom. I think if it were in a pill form made by Pfizer or Roache then we'd all be in it as would many pain suffers, heroin addicts, alcoholics and many many more. When the monopoly cannot be maintained the substance is demonised - see cannabis.
I fully believe that if it weren't for Kratom I would have killed myself a few years ago!
I live in Thailand where is full of Kratom even if illegal but accessible. I am curious to know how do you take it My mail [deleted for your own security.] Members can private message you on here, should they so wish - Kaarina (volunteer)
Damn I've tried most of them. Not so sure on the nootropics - I was looking into them for M.E. and the GP advised against, (as did a nursing friend).
Unfortunately they put kava kava in the dangerous pile due to the huge numbers of people that turn up at A&E after overdosing and fighting and causing accidents and buying cheap bottles in the supermarket; Thank God they kept Alcohol legal with its unblemished safety record and use in the UK, um, wait...!!!
Decent list!
I am getting prepared to try a vegan diet in February so fingers crossed I get to grips with whatever is exacerbating things.
I find it best to just keep rotating the drugs making sure you're not doing any of them more than once in 10 days. It usually means I have something to fall back on if it's going to be a bad night with no risk of addiction.
It's not ideal but it is better than taking a regular prescription for drugs that can cause augmentation amongst other issues.
Someone I know says it's very easy to grow your own cannabis too, he says there are loads of good guides online.
If you find anything new, please let me know. My plan is to put together a huge list of everything helpful, and try to figure out what it is they all do that helps in the hope of passing the information on to someone who can create a medication.
Before you go vegan might look at you tube and see what ex vegans have to say about being vegan. I have run into only one vegan who looked healthy. He was
about 60 and a triathelete. I ask him where he gets his protein and other nutrients.
He stated that it took him a lot of research...but to get his protein he eats 20 different varieties of beans a day...Also you need to look into lectins/oxylates/etc.
because they will cause all kinds of havoc on the body. I lost 45 lbs eating vegan/organic/ it did nothing for my RLS and I was absolutely tired tired tired.
Have to watch foods that have MSG that will ramp up the brain....and your RLS.
good luck. I have tried it all ...I was getting terrible cramps magnesium no help.
Went to vein doctors vein valves were shot...collapsed the veins and that got rid of the cramps....Might be worth a shot. Tried accupuncture herbs/Near Infrared light.
850 nm research shows use 880-890 near infrared runs from 850 up to a 1000 do not fact check this. The NIR seems to help...the accupunture will help with pains but not much for RLS.When you call acupuncturist first thing they tell you we have no guarentees. And it is expensive most insurance will not cover it.
If you buy your kratom online, by the kilo (1000 grams), it gets way cheap (7-10 cents per gram). Also the quality will be MUCH HIGHER than what you will find in a gas station or smoke shop. Most people here say that the red strains are the best for RLS. Legal in most states; not so much in the UK.
However, if you're taking Methadone already, I can tell you that kratom is not nearly as strong a drug as methadone. Also, you will eventually develop a tolerance to kratom. It stopped my RLS symptoms for a year or two, but in that time my daily dose gradually climbed from 4 grams to 32 grams. No bad side effects, but I could see that continuing to increase my daily dosage was unsustainable in the long run.
Now I'm on a low-dose methadone (5 mg twice daily) regime, and no longer need the kratom.
Hi Raffs, are you still on Kratom? If you say yes than guessing still good. Have you taken anything else with it, like switching back and forth. Can you tell me what strain you are using? Thanks, Auntie Sioux
Hi antiesioux, nope not using Kratom since the prescribed drugs got more effective.
As Kratom has become illegal in my jurisdiction I am keeping my supply and only use it as prescribed drugs fail and I transition to the next ones. Of course EVERY drug I am prescribed is much more harmful and potentially addictive but then again Big Pharma get their cut of peoples misery this way.
I generally stuck to the RED strains, as they were the more sedating and pain reducing strains as I have a lot of pain with my RLS. In saying that I never noticed any difference in green, white or red strains - all seemed equally effective at treating my RLS with no noticeable side-effects for me.
I’ve tried to explain the insanity of RLS- those that get it- get it. Kratom must be to the body what opiates are, because my pupils constrict . But it is a God send!
I do dry powder in a spoonful like I said, and just swish it down with sprite or ginger ale. It’s because the Kratom is so bitter to taste.
Thank God the DEA didn’t outlaw this.
Evidently higher doses mimic other opioids .
I’ve used this for years- any Kratom strain works for RLS, 6 ounce dried powder bag, should last you 30 days or more. I have tried Red Vein, Maeng Da, Green Malay. I like them all. But I’ve heard anectodaly that Maeng Da is stronger for some, just not for me.
There’s solutions out there folks. Don’t be afraid to choke a spoonful of Kratom down, when you’re at your wits end. Come back and share your experience .
I would agree that it is like opioids in its impact on rls but with one significant difference - it’s much, MUCH less difficult to discontinue Kratom. The withdrawals from Kratom are far less severe than from opioids.
If had RLS for 20 years. It is now moved into my torso and arms. I have been on every medication known. Including heavy drinking. I haven’t slept in the same bed with my wife for years. They even changed my antidepressants which ended up costing me my job.
I originally took Kratom as a supplement to my protein powder to help boost my work outs. That’s when it went away. It works. It numbs the nervous system and makes the twitching go away. I take 1 full tablespoon around 730pm, go to gym, then go to bed around 10. I have not had an issue for 6 months. It works and it’s cheap.
i have SEVERE rls that may or may not have to do with my brain injury. i had a tumor removed in '16. well, now it's a real issue since i'm augmenting from ropinerole and literally do full-body thrashing starting around 6PM. my (adult) boys have been hoping i would try kratom for quite a while. i still need to stay on gabapentin @ bedtime (for now) but am hoping to eventually leave that behind, too. i think we've determined that taking the kratom at around 5PM might work well but what, in your experience, would a sufficient dosage be? i'd be getting them pre-packed in the gel caps (i don't know how much is in there yet) but is treating the augmentation dosage different than just a straight "preventative dose"? thanks for your knowledge and input on this subject. just reading all the comments gives me hope for relief...
I had a long reply typed out but lost it so I am going to keep this brief sorry
!1 try test dose - open a cap and dip your finger in it - just to make sure that you have no allergic reaction.
2) test dose taken try 1g to start increasing by 1g at a time, (weigh and take a little off for gel caps).
3) Kratom is relatively safe in larger doses albeit unpleasant so if you need the relief desperately you can start higher at 2 or 3g moving up in larger increments. I was desperate when getting it and took test dose then iirc 2.5g and then 10g before reducing to 7.5g.
4) Opinion is divided on Kratom the established medical profession is largely against it with the Mayo clinic claiming it has little to no effect and claims it is damaging. Others who use it claim its great - please do your own research.
5) There were cases in the USA of salmonella and no where else in the world so please take care with your supplier - mine is a US one and I've had no issues.
thanks so much for getting back to me with your knackered self
i'm wondering if you could have even imagined the response and following labor-intensive maintenance this thread has created for you. just please know that countless people are grateful for your efforts and find satisfaction in knowing that you are putting good out into the world. i'll probably write again to let you know my results with the kratom. i'm looking forward to passing along good news and also sharing it with the countless others that are hoping for relief. rest now. and thanks again. Tb
I am delighted to help. I was in a very very bad place when I was graced with Kratom. I can't remember how I came across it but man I am glad I did - I was on a precipice and it took me back. I don't use it much now (thankfully) but have a supply to keep me going when my prescribed drugs start to fail.
Please do let us know how you get on, its always great to hear of people getting away from all the suffering, I hope you find good long lasting relief.
I find a lot of threads here take time, I don't like to give poor advice and I research what I put up from competing sources so as not to be too blind or biased in my advice and one thing can often send you following links for hours.
What I didn't expect was the animosity I face from some - attacks on alternatives to the usual toxic mix of big pharma masquerading as concern. Personal attacks have been not so subtly hidden in support for others misinformed approaches are another favoured approach of those riding high on their equine charges!
If I can be of help to any one I take great delight in it. If you need me I'm only a PM away. Take care.
Be careful with this. I have been a sufferer of RLS for the better part of 20 years, have taken Gabapentin, I’m now on Ropinerole, and have had a number of changes in dosages of these drugs. After a spinal laminectomy three years ago, I was afraid of opioids (having had trouble with that as well), so I changed from hydrochodone to Kratom. Same routine after a hip replacemenr. Three years later I’m now in trouble with Kratom. One trade off for another. For awhile I thought yes, this is the ticket to helping with RLS. But it’s deceiving. You have to be careful with this herb as well. Very careful. I was taking as much as 35 grams/ day of Kratom, haphazardly ingesting it on a whim. For the last 5 days I’ve weaned myself down to 21 grams because it seemed as if it was CAUSING RLS. Last night was the most tortuous night I had with RLS. I’m a little confused and not so sure whether I’m at a crossroads with this, if I can get get stable on 21 grams (which seems more “reasonable”) and maintain this dose, keeping a balance between orthopedic physical pain relief/mood benefits and RLS control all at once, or if I should cold turkey altogether. I like the feeling from Kratom. They key is, as I’ve read (but haven’t done) Is to find your “sweet spot”, respect this wonderful herb. It’s said that the alkaloids are better than opioids but just as strong and addictive. I don’t care so much about being addicted to this, as a I am “addicted” to all the other meds I’m taking. So what. The key is to NOT abuse Kratom, as to not abuse opioids.
Those doses are way too high and I can only advise that you come off this. If you can talk to a Dr or even better an addiction specialist.
I think the fulcrum of your story is " I was afraid of opioids (having had trouble with that as well)" - you should not have taken anything that was working on the opioid receptors, (nor the GABA drugs either for that matter imho).
Mind you the comment " I like the feeling of Kratom." That in itself is worrying. We should be taking drugs because we like being pain/symptom free not because we like the drug. When the focus shifts from treating condition to treating the person, (like a chocolate treat, etc), the problems are there.
IF I were you, and this is only me and I know nothing about your condition, and I had not other health complications I would go cold turkey, (Cold Turkey from opioids is possible and speeds up withdrawals considerably you do not do that with alcohol or benzos as death result) if your health permits.
A couple of days of hell will have you well reduced away from it, how did you manage to get off the opioids the last time? I'd then get on the likes of a Dopamine Agonist and certainly avoid all opioids.
I have RLS bad! I mean BAD! I've had it my entire life (I'm 59) For the longest time it was just a nuisance, but in the last 6 months it's been kicking my ass! When it does I take about a teaspoon of Green Maeng Da, get up and walk a bit and I'm back to sleep in maybe an hour.
Here's the thing. I am almost convinced that the Kratom is what's making my rls worse. Sure it goes away after a dose but when it starts to wear off is when it kicks my ass like it never has before.
I've been using Kratom for about 3 years now and I am not convinced it is 100% safe as some would suggest. There are withdrawal symptoms when you stop. Hot flashes, dizziness, feeling like your going to throw up. Anyone who tells you different is lying or just hasn't stopped yet. Not to mention what it does to the digestive tract. I find myself having to take a laxative about once every 2 weeks or so to get things moving so to speak
My advice is proceed with caution. For me I continue to take it for pain management for all kinds of ailments from my lower back to the tips of my toes.
And as I already stated, I'm not convinced that Kratom is not responsible for making my rls even worse. Seeing my doc in the morning to see what she says. I'm betting she's never heard of the stuff
Yeah Kratom works on the opioid receptors and although not in the Same ball park as the likes of Oxy there will have to be a withdrawal from it as you have 1 gotten used to it as in tolerance and 2 withdrawing treatment for your condition.
There are cases of drugs used to sedate people actually increased agitation - lorazepam in the elderly is a good example of this, so it wouldn't surprise me if this could happen.
Would you not consider stopping using it if you think it's making things worse?
I might add that the way things are going I may have to stop anyway whether I want to or not. It's getting harder and harder to get here in TX. And the places it can be got are jacking the price like crazy. There is a place in Dallas that is selling it at over $400 a kg. I've found it as cheap as 60 but just ordered 2 at $70 each. I feel it won't be long before it is completely illegal in all 50 states
I am using Kratom myself and find it very useful. I am a little worried about building tolerance to it, however. I understand that this post is 4 years old. Have you developed tolerance since then?
I've been talking kratom for about five years, and while everyone is different, I've absolutely built up a tolerance and like ChuckUFarley it has made my RSL so much worse. My symptoms appear early in the day and can creep into my arms and occasionally a restless feeling along my spine and back. It was a miracle initially!
I'm now waking at least four or five times a night and staying up each time for about an hour.
I'm going to try to taper down and eventually try to wean myself off it. I've just had an iron infusion (unfortunately with some side effects) and I've also just started TMS (trans cranial magnetic stimulation). And am looking into the SIBO connection too.
Our body will always seek homoeostasis. What that means to the common man is that every drug we put in our body changes the balance of our body and our body seeks to address that imbalance.
For people on opiates they get tolerance and have to take more and more. That happens with most drugs. That is why IT IS A MUST that all drugs we take are taken at the lowest level for as short a period as we can use them.
Ureshi17 - you have what sounds like augmentation - the RLS is felt in more parts of the body and earlier in the day. There is a fantastic thread with LOADS of info on it and particularly a video posted by mantel:
I only used Kratom for 6 or 7 months, I think, and obviously at a short term use I didn't get tolerance, however I have no doubt that using it for years must lead to a need to increase - it only makes sense.
I would advise as quick a reduction as your mind can take, (your body will be grand with a quick drop but it might put the RLS even worse and you will have to deal with the implications of that over the short term). When you have dropped a decent amount get to your Dr and possibly look for the likes of Lyrica or Neupro patch, (drugs that are very severe but can work very well - just be aware of the side-effects). DON'T go for opiates as they work on the same receptors that Kratom uses and will very quickly lead to augmentation.
ALSO. And this might be the best thing you do for your body, (and sanity), is to look at your diet. I am currently symptom free using an opiate which in fairness had dealt with a large part of the symptoms but with gentle iron taken in the evening and a GLUTEN & DAIRY free diet. Our diet is very important, and I believe the answer to a lot of our problems. No mater what I took I always had the crawling in my body, (well Kratom had done that but not the prescription drugs and I keep Kratom in reserve for when I have to change prescription ones), I took the drugs the Dr gave and added in cannabis to take the edge off. I don't need cannabis any more as the change in diet has quietened everything.
Many people struggle with diet, maybe they think something so simple can't work or they think that giving up the delights of dairy or the goodness of gluten is too high a price to pay. I can assure you that simple changes can make huge improvements in health - look at all those people on statins that will suffer the side-effects of those awful drugs rather than alter their diet and feel good. The same goes with diabetics and many, many more. I know people that boast they are in great health as their fat levels are good, etc, etc. Yet they don't seem to realise that the several drugs they are taking is the reason not anything they are doing. Please for your sake - look at diet.
Many thanks for your reply! Yes it's certainly seems like augmentation. It's rarely discussed with Kratom, but very real.
The brain ultimately goes through neuroadaption.
I would prefer to stay off all pharmaceuticals if I can and try to look at other options like an iron infusion (just had one) TMS (just started) and treating potential SIBO etc etc. I have been on a gluten free diet for over 20 years and follow a strict anti-inflammatory whole food plant based diet.
I'm not looking forward to coming off the Kratom. By all accounts it's certainly not easy.
Cannabis isn't legal here either, doesn't stop me getting and using it when I need too.
I am interested in tms and have been recently looking at the Shakti Helmet but its a big out lay. I would be very grateful if you could post on your success with it.
Once you have adapted to the drugs coming off will be difficult. On the plus side Kratom is meant to be easier than Tramadol and those opiates but will no doubt be hard. Try going gluten and dairy free and maybe add in some iron in the evenings to help out - best of luck.
I've been traveling and haven't had any more TMS treatments, but I'll go back again this weekend. I'll certainly keep you updated. All the recent studies look very promising!
There are several clinics that offer it in Australia. I'm sure it must be available some where in the US? I'll try and have a look online.
Please see my message first below this. I googled and found quite a few clinics that offer TMS in the US. It is FDA approved for depression, but I'm sure you could take all the research along and meet with the head physician. I'm sure some would be willing to experiment. The parts of the brain where the magnet is placed is over are the motor cortex or the somatosensory cortex.
The disease is progressive so it may of not been the kratom. Yeah i used to get it only at night and over the years it has turned into and all day thing and night. Wish you good luck.
Hi Jimmicar, if you asking me about tolerance I didn't experience any in the few months I used it. I keep Kratom in reserve for when I have to change prescribed drugs or for any unforeseen circumstances.
In my humble opinion, if you can get decent drugs from your Dr which can reasonably control the symptoms of RLS without landing you with a heap of side-effects that are as bad as the RLS then take them keeping the Kratom in reserve for when the drugs become ineffective.
Yeah the kratom is good...the white gives you energy and pain relief...the red makes you sleep and the green is in between. I find it hard on the stomach ...but i took it on an empty stomach. The problem is quality control...i purchased a large back felt like i was getting a heart attack. Some folks say they load it up with caffiene etc. Do you have any side effects other than feeling good. What brand do you use if you do not mind me asking.
The same thing happened with me. I have been using kratom for over 5 years now, and I have not had to increase my dosage at all in order to relieve my rls. I currently take 1-2 teaspoons of it, mixed in water, per night. Sometimes I need another 1/2 tsp. at about 5am, but that is the most I've ever taken. Besides that morning dose, I have never needed it during the say. Since I was a child, I have been experiencing rls not only in my legs, but also my arms and ribcage. My rls got worse with age (I am now 53) such that I was experiencing it nightly without kratom.
The first time I tried kratom, within 10 minutes I could feel a wave of calmness go through my body, and the horrible itching sensation was completely gone from all parts of my body within a few minutes after that. I previously tried Ropinrole, which seemed to work for a few months until the rls came back with a vengeance (also known as augmentation, which is a known side effect of drugs such as Ropinrole).
I don't know for sure, but I am probably addicted to kratom since I have to use it nightly. However, like I said I have not needed to increase the dosage over the past 5 years in order to get total relief from rls. When working on a masters in Forensic Science, I wrote an academic paper on kratom which was published, so I do know a bit about how it works. My understanding is that people who have died with kratom in their systems typically have other, more dangerous drugs in their systems, such that the experts believe a drug interaction with kratom or maybe just an overdose of another drug was the cause of death. I have not been able to find news of a single death where only kratom was found in the system of the deceased. That being said, kratom in higher doses may cause damage to the kidneys and/or liver, similar to the effects that acetaminophen has in such amounts. I have been taking N-acetylcysteine (NAC) to counter any damage to my kidneys and liver.
The only problem with kratom, for me, is that it is illegal in some places I wish to travel. I am seeing an rls doctor soon in order to try to find something I can use instead of kratom in those places. I really hope it doesn't become illegal in the U.S. (and, in particular, in my city and state).
Hi NellieK, glad to hear you are getting relief.
I would argue however that since you have not had to increase the dose, you only take what you need to get by with your RLS and you have not been using it during the day I would argue that you are in no way addicted to Kratom. I would say you are dependant on it to treat your RLS and would be in the same bracket as the diabetic who is dependant on Insulin.
A very common mistake made by people, and many doctors, is addiction v dependence. Addiction implies use to medicate psychological/spiritual/social issues (I take Valium everyday because I am bored and have nothing to do). Dependence implies you rely on something (I take Valium everyday as I have muscle spasms and it relaxes them).
Kratom, like cannabis, can be implicated in say a heroin overdose by its presence in the system yet play no role in the actual death. There were some cases of Salmonella but all were found in the USA and nowhere else in the world which makes the suspicious and paranoid part of me would think this was some plot to discredit Kratom which is increasingly used in the US by people who can't afford opiates and who want to stop the likes of heroin. There is too much money tied up in rehabilitation and drug treatments that the system would rail against a safer substance falling into the hands of the lay person. Sorry I am going off point with my little soap box bit
Congrats on getting your paper published and if you could I would love a link to read that (you can PM it to me in order to maintain your privacy if you want) if you would be so kind?
To anyone who doubts that Kratom works, I suggest you change your views. Im sure not everyone will get the same results but for me, it has completely did away with the symptoms of RLS. I used to have to drink heavily to reduce the symptoms and then I started using kratom for some shoulder and back pain and realized it, and I cannot stress this enough, 100% did away with my symptoms. It definitely has the feeling of an opioid (hydrocodone) at anymore than 3 grams for me but it is far safer than any pharmaceutical. I recommend anyone try it for RLS. Start off with a gram and work your way up until you notice the symptoms subside.
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