Good morning all. I am trying to make sense of a hideous night I had last night and wondered if anyone has experience with taking Kratom alongside prescription meds? This si what happened... I have been on Kratom for 7 weeks (I used it to come off Tramadol to help with the withdrawals and also to control rls). Kratom has been very effective at controlling the rls - however I have anxiety, exhaustion, depression and insomnia with it. I have not slept for months - it is exhausting. I received a lot of excellent counsel in this group and how to proceed, so yesterday I went to see my Doctor and spoke about moving on to Buprenorphine and getting Trazadone to help with anxiety and insomnia. My Doctor refused buprenorphine, suggested I stay on Kratom since it works and he gave me Trazadone and 2 weeks of Zopiclone to help with sleep. (Prior to this I had taken 300mg of Gbapentin) one of the nights to help with anxiety and sleep and it triggered rls and I had to take a Tramadol to stop the rls - I concluded the Kratom was reacting with the Gabapentin. To test this out, the next night I took just Tramadol and Gabapentin - and I had no rls and slept) So last night I took 6g Kratom and an hour later 1 Trazadone and 1/2 Zopiclone. After an hour I had hideous rls in my leg, chest and arm - almost constant. I was so spaced out by the Trazadone and Zopiclone but forced to walk around because of the rls. In desperation I took a Tramadol to control the rls - it didnt work so an hour later I took a second Tramadol - it didn't work - so an hour later I took a 3rd Tramadol. An hour my beloved wife gave me a back rub and that put me to sleep - no further trouble. I am beginning to think the problem is Kratom - it interacts badly with any other meds and triggers hideous rls. Does anyone have experience with this or any advice? My only option now seems to be to go back to the Doc to get an opiate so that I can drop the Kratom? I am grateful for anyone taking time to read this. This group is critical to all of us - my last 3 visits to the Doctors revealed none of them knew which meds make rls work, none of them had heard of DWAS, and none of them had heard of Kratom. We cannot reply on the Doctors knowing what they are doing - they dont!
Kratom Interaction with other meds - Restless Legs Syn...
Kratom Interaction with other meds
Why not just Tramadol and Gabapentin since it worked?
Sue I woke up the next morning feeling awful. Utter exhaustion, depressed and agitated. I was put off and didnt do it again.
You could take your trazodone for the depression and also anxiety and adderall or ritalin in the morning to counter your exhaustion. This is in case you find nothing else works, since this did work.
Thanks Sue. I tool Tramadol and Trazadone last night - some mild rls but I did sleep. Woke up feeling absolutely wrecked. No idea why.
healthunlocked.com/rlsuk/po..., I think you need to see a neurologist urgently to get another opioid prescribed so you can stop the tramadol and kratom.
Then you can use only ONE of the sedatives prescribed by your GP. He should have told you that using zoplicone AND trazodone would be too much!
Kaarina has listed neurologists who members have recommended. Ephemera has just seen Dr Dhanjal at Queen Sq and he prescribed Buprenorphine.
If you do see a neurologist, bear in mind most members find Buprenorphine pills better for RLS than the patch.
Thanks Jools. My Doc prescribed both and said he wants to see me in 2 weeks time. Only then will he consider referring me to a neurologist. To be honest last night after taking the Kratom, Trazadone and 1/2 Zopiclone - I was spaced out and staggering all over the place trying to relieve the restless legs. It was hideous.
You can self refer if you can afford the private consultation fee.Making you wait 2 weeks is cruel and unnecessary, especially as your GP has effectively admitted he knows nothing about RLS.
The fact he's recommended you stay on kratom, which is illegal here in the UK, should raise alarm bells. Whyis he reluctant to prescribe 'off licence' gabapentin but not low dose Buprenorphine?
I suggest you take a video of your suffering and send it to him. It's just unacceptable to leave someone suffering so badly, night after night.
Sorry to rant, but it just is so infuriating that the lack of teaching and training leads to this.
I really hope tonight is better.
Thanks Jools. Appreciated. I will drop the Kratom tonight and just try Tramadol and Trazadone. Hopefully it will work. If I can just sleep I will feel better. Monday I will get back to my Doctor. He was not keen for me to go back on Tramadol. I will use that as leverage to get me to a Neurologist fast.
Replace gaba with pregab
When you have the urge take kratom
It taking away augmentation when ditching meds
Sleep.
gaba & krtom did no good for days straight, for what thats worth
Thank you - yes Kratom and gaba didnt work for me either. Kratom does still do a lot of good. Thanks for the reply.
Hi, GaryHB. So sorry you are dealing with all this. I can relate as I have had many miserable nights where I just threw anything and everything I had at it. I hope tonight is somehow better for you. I just wanted to let you know that I have mixed kratom with Ambien, Delta 8, Horizant (gabapentin version) and several opioids with no ill effects. (They were not high doses, however.) Nothing ever made my rls worse or brought it on. But, I am sure certain drug combinations create havoc, especially at higher doses.
Recently I have just been using a small amount of Suboxone film (Dr. B prescribed it and also a local doctor, but they would not prescribe any other form of BUP) along with Delta 8 (synthetic THC).
Yes, you really need some good sleep and I hope you can get on a good regimen asap.
From my lay experience, until you get the right advice, I don't think you should mix the tramadol, trazodone, and the zoplicone nor the combo of tramadol and trazodone. I would try the kratom and the zoplicone or the tramadol and the zoplicone. If the zoplicone is a tablet or caplet, start with 1/2 of it. But FIRST, make sure zoplicone is not an rls aggravator. Someone else on here said it might be. There is a list somewhere or else Sue will know.
To me, the tramodol and gaba worked because of the opioid-which is virtually the same as taking kratom and gaba.
Hi TeddiJ. Thank you for your reply. I hear what you are saying and appreciate your concern. I will have to try the different combinations and try and isolate the med that is causing issues. Thanks again for the advice. I really appreciate it.
Thank you, Gary. How did the next night go and what did you try?
Oh, I see you answered that below. I would not mix those two, but I am no expert.
I took Kratom and Zopiclone (1/2) last night. Mild rls which a bit more Kratom dealt with. Slept 4 hours staright and a few more hours on and off. I do not feel sick this morning! I think its the Tramadol making me feel so ill. I checked the side effects and it does make you feel sick.
It could also be combining it with the trazadone. I just wrote you another post on this-glad this combo worked. With kratom, one often has to add more, so that doesn't mean anything. You could try a small amount of TRAM next with the Zopiclone-it might result in a longer/better sleep.
Hey, Teddi,
Do you have any difficulty getting Dr. B's opioid prescriptions filled locally, in that he's out-of-state for you? Thanks.
Hi, DoDah! I have filled his prescription just once at a Walgreens and had no issue. Then I had another local doctor prescribe suboxone so I got that prescription filled even though I didn't yet need it. I was taking kratom quite often and resisting the full opiods because of the teeth issue and potential surgery issue. Both claims were denied by both doctors as being untrue and yet the forum disagrees. I finally just caved because I was traveling and the kratom was just getting so exhausting and annoying. Not sure if I should have stayed with that or not. Of course, all the doctors I have seen (except for one) say to stop taking kratom.
Anyway, Dr. B said something about pharmacies not filling his after so many months without me coming back to see him, but I can't say if that is true or not. They filled every opioid we tried-first it was oxycodone, then suboxone. I don't think I tried anything else with Dr. B. In April it will already be a year since I went to see him.
Why-are you having issues?
My neurologist gave me Tramadol and Trazadone to take together due to insomnia. I can’t take the Trazadone because it gives me a horribly stuffed up nose. I am so sorry you’re having such a hard time. My neurologist won’t give me BUP and has me alternating between Tramadol and oxycodone, which at this point isn’t perfect but working. I use a small amount of THC and chew 2 CBD/CBN gummies and those help with sleep. I hope you find relief soon.
Thank you for the reply - I have exactly that - a terrible blocked nose. I took Trazodone last night, slept, but feel wrecked this morning. I will remember the advice about the 2 opioids you are alternating between. Thank you.
Have you had your ferritin checked? Improving your ferritin to 100 or more helps 60% of people with RLS and in some cases completely eliminates their symptoms. When you see your doctor ask for a full iron panel. Stop taking any iron supplements including multivitamins that have iron in them 48 hours before the test, fast after midnight and have your test in the morning. When you get the results, ask for your ferritin and transferrin saturation (TSAT) numbers. You want your transferrin saturation to be over 20% but less than 45% and your ferritin to be at least 100. If they are not, post them here and we can give you advice.
Hi, Sue-do you know if the zopilcone aggravates RLS? Asking for Gary and you are so good with that info. Thanks!
Yes Sue - it was 260.
My iron was 260 and saturation 51.1
Your saturation is on the high side. It shouldn't be over 45%. Definitely don't take any iron supplements.
Ok will do. Any idea why that would be? Multivitamin??
No just that it is not recommended. I wouldn't worry about the multivitamin.
Ah ok. Thanks.
I am surprised that your doctor approved kratom, I can't comment on the other drugs but zoplicone will space you out and won't help with the rls. I saw a very good specia!ist in Bath but I had to pay. He prescribed an opiod.
My Doc has no idea what Kratom is. None of the Docs I saw knew what it was. Which opioid did he prescribe for you? And yes - either the zopiclone or the Trazadone spaced me our badly. Thanks for the reply.
He prescribed Targinact which is licensed for the treatment of rls in the UK.
Right ok - I didnt know it was licensed for rls? Thast good to know.
My GP didn't know , I had to educate her. She now gives me a prescription.
👍
Hi Gary, I`ve never had any problem combining Kratom with other Meds inc. Pregabalin, my only real observation is that 6grms seems a bit high and would for me guarantee insomnia.
Ok thats interesting. What dose would you recommend to sleep and deal with rls? Thanks for your reply. Appreciated.
Mostly 2/3grms in capsule form for night time dosing convenience which is 6/9caps. I`m currently on a maintenance dose of of 25mg Pregabalin , plus most nights alternating between Kratom and 60/90mg Codeine, I`m building myself up to have another go at my GP to let me try Targinact or one of the other more powerful Opioids. Pregabalin at 250mg stopped working last Autumn, but it did give 6/7 Months prior to that.
How was last night?
I took 2 Tramadol and 1 Trazadone. I had 2 episodes of mild rls. Took a small amount of Kratom which settled it. Actually slept which was superb. Woke up feeling awful. Puffy eyes, stuffy nose, exhausted. I felt so sick. No idea why. At least I wasnt spaced out and staggering like the previous night.
Hopefully tonight will be better. When the RLS strikes in the night, maybe try stretches & squats to sett the sensations.
In all the back and forth between GaryHB and others I saw Sue Johnson' s recommendation that you have your ferritin checked, but I haven't seen a reply to that from you. I also would urge you to have a full iron panel and especially have your ferritin level checked. Your problem may well be the iron level in your brain which can't be measured directly, but having a ferritin level below 100 (mine was only 66 when I first checked it) probably means you also have a deficiency of iron in the brain.
Thanks for your concern Robert - I did get it done - it was 260 - pretty good.
I tried Red Vein Balinese Kratom, a 2.5 ml spoonful as advised, my neck and chest was covered with a terrible itch which lasted for three days, on top of walking all night. Beware it may affect you too.
Ok thank you - So far Red Bali has worked for me bar for insomnia.
Is it withdrawal or augmentation or just ineffective?
4 DAYS INTO COLD TURKEY ON CLONIDINE ALL IS GOING PRETTY WELL EXCEPT. . .need more advice at this point.
My Journey With RLS, Experience With Kratom
