testosterone boosters after ADT?

[Mike404]

I finished SBRT in September and a six month course of ADT in March. I asked my endocrinologist about zinc and Vitamin D to aid T recovery, and he said it probably wouldn’t help, but won’t hurt anything. I saw some “testosterone support” from Wieder at the store and am considering it. It augments these two with some herbs and a lot of Vitamin B6 and B12. I’m wondering if anyone has tried this or has a view regarding PCa. I’m not sure about the B12 in particular. Just trying to get my T back!

[Hidden]

I wouldn’t take DHEA if that’s one of the ingredients, based on my experience. There are a number of men that actually take testosterone after treatment for low T. Some doctors are ok with it and some aren’t.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

hoping to find a doctor who will give me T though only 10 weeks after rp. t level is 38. and in addition to multiple symptoms of low t, now worried about type 2 diabetes and heart disease. not sure how to find a doctor that will prescribe androgel for me, but doctor shopping seems the best way.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

its not hard to find. The question is whether you want to get started. 38 is not too bad for 10 weeks out from what I assume you mean the end of ADT. Normally T gets below 20, and even 10 during ADT, so 38 sounds like it is moving up

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

no. i was never on adt. i just had the rp 10 weeks ago. i have hypogonadism. its was 78 in january a month after being off androgel. over 20 years ago, it was below 100. so i've been on androgel that long. 38 is normal for me and it seems to have leveled off there. however, my post rp psa is .31. i think thats not good. but not sure. but i don't care. i want back on androgel and don't care if the cancer comes back. i think it can be monitored if it grows back too fast.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

understand completely. There is probably someone at a T center that will give it to you if you sign enough papers but if you have additional radiation treatment for recurrence they are going to want you on ADT for another 12-18 months so you might be better off waiting. I do understand completely though. QOL is a really really big deal and sexually getting off is so damn hard at low levels. And unfortunately lowering T is basically the only way to bring down PSA. Like I said, you can probably find someone to fill the scrip, but whether that is the right thing for you is another question only you can answer. Its your body

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

there’s also a post on here somewhere by TallAllen talking about whether desire for T is like an addiction. Might be worth reading since one of the things many of us have to get used to is life without testosterone. Also MateoBeach’s post about doing it his own way-with high T cycling BAT and an unusual treatment even though it was in his lymph nodes. healthunlocked.com/fight-pr... 

[JWS13 in reply to Hidden]

why exactly are you worried about heart disease and diabetes? (from adt and loss of T?)

[Hidden in reply to JWS13]

side effects of Low T. not exactly worried. am not on ADT. recent T level was 33. thats without ADT. In fact, i'm much less worried now. but as a point of reference; i have or have had multiple side effects of Low T over the years. TRT ameliorated some of the side effects and will do so again once i restart it.

[Alexandr1 in reply to Hidden]

I have taken prescription T ever since my 2019 surgery. My cancer doctors actually recommended it. One is a disciple of Dr. Abraham Morgentaler who has researched the prostate cancer/ testosterone relationship for 30 years. My suggestion is Google Morgentaler, then follow up with PubMed and NCBI searches on the subject; then talk to your MD. Lots of evidence that T supplementation is safe for prostate cancer survivors……

[London441]

I took HCG while I was recovering T after ADT. A urologist can prescribe it for you. It can definitely help. Unlike supplementation with testosterone, it only stimulates your body to resume producing T on its own.

Taking exogenous testosterone works but if you take it for any length of time your body won’t make it any longer and you have to take it basically for life. Some men don’t mind this at all, but I would never have done it unless nothing else worked.

[Hidden in reply to London441]

having been on T before, and quit, I can tell you that it doesn’t shut you down completely. My levels were low end of normal when I started and after 5 years I quit. Levels returned to low normal after a short period around 250. When I say low normal, I mean around 300. Not great. But acceptable. I guess everyone can be different

[London441 in reply to Hidden]

Good. Definitely a heterogeneous experience. Still, overall, the law of drugs is that the body will excuse itself from a particular job if we send it a clear and consistent message we have it covered. Having had a little too much experience with this in my life I tend to generalize. Forgive me.

[Hidden in reply to London441]

in fact, a certain percentage of people that take ADT lose the ability to produce testosterone completely, so you are right, it does happen, whether by ADT or by T itself. There is a video on here somewhere about some recent study that found it takes a longer time than thought after ADT. Sometimes 5 years. And sometimes it never comes back.

[London441 in reply to Hidden]

Absolutely. And the 3 factors that are generally predictive of T return after ADT

1:age (both biological and physical),

2. length of time on the ADT and

3. T level at diagnosis-

aren't talked about to patients nearly enough.

[WhatHump in reply to Hidden]

Thank you for that comment. I never monitored my T until AFTER my RP (just surgery; no ADT), when I just didn't "feel like myself" and seemed to have problems w muscle mass, memory fog, and low grade depression. It was like 333, IIRC. "Normal" was 300-1200, I was told. A range you could drive a truck through, IMHO, so not esp helpful. I'm extremely active (17 miles/day biking; sailing Hobie16s most afternoon). Am going to add some moderate weight lifting (I have some back issues. Grade 2 spondylolisthesis for 35 yrs), So have to be judicious how I work these muscles. Any other input on what constitutes low or normal T for non-ADT RP patients appreciated.

[Hidden]

Besides HGC, there’s also Clomid. Which supposedly works in a lot of people by stimulating the pituitary gland, and I think reducing estradiol. Or something. Didn’t work at all for me, though.

[Justfor_]

Taking Avodart will put a handbrake in the Testosterone to DHT conversion axis. The body is unaware of the obstacle and instructs T production increase. After 2 months you can notice a 20-25% T increase. No SE.

[janebob99 in reply to Justfor_]

Dustaride (Avodart) will decrease libido. Dustasteride will also reduce the prostate volume by 20%, and reduce prostate cancer risk by 20%. I'm currently taking Dutasteride and the only side effect that I notice is low libido. My testosterone level is high, but DHT is low. Testosterone increases on Dustasteride because it is not being converted to DHT. Estradial will also increase (which isn't a bad thing for PCa).

[Justfor_ in reply to janebob99]

Unimpeded DHT is less than 10% on total Testosterone with 5 to 7% being a more common ballpark. Avodart will not lower it to zero. A 5% decrease scores an extraordinary response. Hence, the 20-25% increase in total T can't be attributed to merely conversion savings.

[janebob99 in reply to Justfor_]

Here's a paper on effect of Dutasteride on Free-testosterone (Free-T goes up 20%).

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/269...

Here's another one that shows an increase of 16% for total testosterone due to testosterone.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/197...

[Hockeyforever]

I'd get blood tests for Zn, D, B6 and B12. If your blood test results indicate sufficient Zn, D and B6 I wouldn't overdose. B12 overdose is not harmful but probably not useful.

mayoclinic.org/healthy-life...

livestrong.com/article/4153...

frontiersin.org/articles/10....

frontiersin.org/articles/10....

[cancerfox]

My general practitioner gave me a prescription for Letrozole, which I think inhibits the conversion of testosterone to estrogen, similar to Clomid. I think it helped some, though I can't be certain because my T and free T keep bouncing around all over the place since I got off the ADT. 🦊

[janebob99 in reply to cancerfox]

Why don't you start testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)? It's safe.

[cancerfox in reply to janebob99]

My total testosterone is fairly high, it's my free testosterone that is low. I need to find the cause and a solution to that problem. 🦊

[janebob99 in reply to cancerfox]

Your SHBG may be high, which is the protein that binds testosterone. SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) is a common blood test. There may be drugs (e.g., enzymes) that reduce SHBG. SHBG increases as you get older, so there is less free testosterone available. You may want to google "SHBG reduction".

[cancerfox in reply to janebob99]

The last time I had it checked my SHBG was in fact on the high side, though not by a whole lot. I'll try searching for SHBG reduction like you have suggested. I lost my family doctor because of an incident he had with someone's dog and he got suspended, so I'll have to find someone new if I need a prescription to reduce SHBG. Thanks! 🦊

[janebob99]

You may want to look into transdermal estrogen patch/gel therapy for treating side effects of low testosterone. If you send me your email address, I can email you 10 articles about it.

[janebob99]

Here's a plot that shows hard data on T-recovery versus time for different durations of ADT.

I have taken TRT for over 20 years for hypogonadism. You should go find a compounding pharmacy and ask them for a recommendation of one or two doctors who prescribe compounded (creme, gel) testosterone. You can get them to prescribe higher concentrations than Androgel.

I agree with Alexadr1 that you should check out the papers and YouTube video s by Abraham Morgentaler at Harvard, who has written that doing TRT does not increase the risk of developing prostate cancer. In fact, it may decrease the risk, according to some papers.

Bob

Testosterone Recovery after Stopping ADT