My pre-ADT testosterone was 620. Now, after four months of ADT (and radiation), it's 9. My ADT prison sentence ends September 31 (Orgovyxx).
A couple guys at my gym have offered to hook me up starting in November to get my T back up quickly. I know doctors will say this is not a good idea, but is there any real harm in doing this? ADT has been so miserable for me I would do anything to get my T back and should the cancer return I'm not going to treat it.
So, are there any cons, other than returning cancer, to jumpstarting my T at the end of ADT?
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PrettyUnhappyGuy
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Yes- it will suppress your natural T. Orgovyx stops working quickly, allowing your natural T to return.
More importantly, radiation works over years, so you have to follow PSA to know if it worked. By taking T, you will not know if any rise in your PSA is from benign causes or your cancer returning.
IMO hard to say but I still suggest you stick with the plan Bro, your Testosterone will bounce back pretty quick like 99% of the rest of us. You lasted this long just run out the plan
Every 90 days you will get a PSA and Testosterone test and you will see a start feeling better even before the 90 day measured bounce in you blood work test.
My pre SBRT and 6 months Orgovyx testosterone was 517. During treatment it was 14. One month after cessation of Orgovyx (June 28th) it was 482. I don't know that you will need to jump start your testosterone.Stay Strong Brother
You friend at the gym may be thinking of T recovery after Lupron (which is very slow). The rule of thumb for Lupron is that that the T-recovery time equals the duration on Lupron.
But, in your case, with Orgovyx, your T should naturally recover in 1-2 months.
Thanks, I switched to Orgovyxx from Lupron. Did four months of Lupron, though, so that likely means four months of recovery even after I'm done with the Orgovyxx?
I am almost 10 years older than you and would now consider myself what I call a “ Converted Aerobic Gym Rat”. We are almost identical in T level and I had 6 months of Lupron. Two months after stopping it my T was 233 and at 4 months 533 now neither my doctors or I care because I feel super. I could actually feel the T rising it was that noticeable.
In my way of thinking the quick return was due to my resistance and aerobic training. Give it a shot and IF you want to raise your T consult a MD and not the “guys” at the gym.
I'm 74 and got out at 2:18AM this morning for another short 17.71 mile bicycle ride, pushed HARD on the pedals with *NO SWEATING MY BALLS OFF* cause I had them REMOVED in April 2015. *T* < 2.5ng/dL right now and until I go back on my *T* injections that's the every day life for me. GLAD you went with Orgovyx and be patient 'cause your *T* should return and life will improve. Eat well AND EXERCISE!!!! 👍👍
Yes, four months of T-recovery after the date that you stopped Lupron (on average), in your case. Also, there will be some men that recover faster or slower than the average time. The variation in recovery time can be as large as a factor of 2 X.
if you did the four month Lupron shot then it will take a couple months to completely wash out. The Orgovyx will only take a couple weeks as it is a daily pill. Consider yourself lucky. You get to stop. I, as well as so many others, get a life sentence. Hang in there. If you have an understanding partner, you will be fine.
Murk’s advice is spot on. After radiation treatment and finishing 6 months of Orgovyx, my T was 7. 60 day check up - PSA 0.01 and T 252. Will go back in 90 days for another set of labs. Give it time, and your T will recover on its own.
Lupron sucks (or, at least, its side effects suck and not in a good way). I had an awful reaction to it ( 3 injections of 3 mos duration each) and, unfortunately, my recovery lasted about a year and a half (I still have the wt and man boobs and joint discomfort and some genital shrinkage). I discussed a dose of T with my docs but they cautioned against it, not wanting to tempt the fates, as it were. I chose not to take extra T and allow nature to run its course. Interestingly, my "normal" pre-treatment T was low (250s). It's now (6 yrs post radiation and ADT) in the 350s. Go figure.
You're in great shape, PSA-wise. You're a great candidate for supplemental testosterone. My PCP tells me my T needs to be > 1000 ng/dl for good health, at our age. 350 would be too low for me (when I get off Orgovyx).
Hey Bob (I assume you're not Jane), looks like you're around my age (I'm 71), and I'm really surprised that your PCP would say you need T>1000 for good health. Everything I see suggests typical levels much lower than that. FWIW, mine before treatment (at 69) was 421, and I felt fine and healthy back then. (Now it's undetectable, but I'm just coming off 2 years of Eligard and abi.) I'll be thrilled when it gets back to 3 digits!
My PCP is 71, and he is a big proponent of all men having T > 1000 ng/dl. That's for men without prostate cancer, though. The main risk of high T is high levels of hematocrit and hemoglobin, due to enhanced red blood cell production.
He does understand the importance of having a very low T (< 20 ng/dl) for fighting hormone-sensitive prostate cancer.
Sometimes T never gets back to normal. Mine was 300+ prior to adt. A year after finishing adt (2years) my T is around 90-100. My MO said it might not return to pre adt levels. I feel better since adt ended but still have low T symptoms.
I completed 4 months of ADT Orgovix April 5th. Baseline T before ADT was 596 (65 years old) T tested last week, 612. PSA before Proton treatment 6.1, 4 months after, 0.47. Rad-Onc told me to wait one year before considering TRT. I worked out almost every day during ADT to prevent muscle loss. I’m seeing muscle growth now that natural T is back. I will assess at one year TRT
I read your bio, and I think I understand very well. Here’s the thing: You want to be off the ADT for good when you’re done, which is soon. If you’re depressed now, imagine being on ADT for life. That’s the risk.
You say you wouldn’t treat the disease if it comes back but if it meant letting it take over and-all that goes with it-you might reconsider. Don’t invite that choice.
Throughout my 18 month ADT course I hit the weights as hard as possible even though it was swimming upstream without a doubt. When it was over I went even harder, it made the hole to climb out of smaller and assisted T recovery. Full recovery in 6 months and that was Lupron.
T recovery from Orgovyx is fast, and a 6 month course is relatively nothing.
Concentrate on your training in this crucial time and be patient. Great luck to you!
Thanks, I've been working out consistently through my entire treatment except for three days when I had Covid (weights, cardio, yoga, walking the dog 3-5 miles every day). I'm starting with a trainer next week who is going to teach me three different one hour workouts, including one that can be done anywhere for when I travel so I can bump up the intensity.
My tachycardia went away after the first few weeks of treatment, and my mood has improved a lot as long as I find things to do vs. just sitting home ruminating about prostate cancer. I've lost A LOT of weight since starting Lupron then switching to Orgovyx and am now underweight, mainly due to loss of appetite. Trainer is recommending nutrient dense protein shakes so will give that a try.
Got a pleasant surprise this weekend. Took my maintenance dose of Viagra (20 mg per day, 100 mg on Saturdays) and the maintenance dose gave me a very good erection which I put to good use with my partner, though still no orgasms. I hope that's the ADT and not a permanent side effect of radiation.
Well done. Keep the weight up to a healthy level, but all clean food and not too much of it, metabolism is slowed on ADT.
Your erection is a great sign, not common with castrate levels of T. This should be very encouraging. Be glad you didn’t get a prostatectomy. Besides higher incidence of ED, it makes the penis shorter and thinner too. This was my experience. Fortunately, implants work well as a last resort.
No libido is weird and heartbreaking we know. It won’t last. Again, do your time on it now and have far greater odds of not having to take it permanently.
PrettyUnhappyGuy wrote -- " Thanks, I've been working out consistently through my entire treatment ... "
OUTSTANDING!!! 👍👍
Yesterday I upped the anti and bicycled 57.76 miles with my T<2.5ng/dL. The last 15 miles for this 74yo Unique Eunuch were torture with temperature 90°F and almost 100% humidity. I'm hoping for continued low PSA since I am watching the numbers since I have 3 small 3+3 spots in the remaining left half of prostate and if the trend continues I will return to biweekly Cypionate Injections that maximizes my T>1,600ng/dL immediately after injection then down to 450/600 ng/dL before next injection 2 weeks later. I was treated experimentally for my initial GL10 (5+5 tumor in right half of prostate), with 8 years of my own directed BAT protocol. (bipolar androgen therapy) allowing a pretty good Quality of Life.
I should have added that my Testosterone level was above 600 and the Orgovyx knocked it down to 10 and first test after stopping it was again back to over 600. Everyone is different though so others might experience something different.
Everyone’s journey is different, I like you suffered horribly with ADT, I had it in my mind that when the last implant had been depleted than my testosterone would recover, it eventually did but only after about 30 months.
On the plus side it over 4 years since my treatment and at the moment I feel great 👍
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