Hi,
My rheumatologist put me on Cacichew when she prescribed steroids 18 months ago. It has calcium and D3. I've read that one should take K2 to make sure the calcium goes to the bones and not arteries so why was I not put on K2 also. Do any of you taking Calcichew take D3 and if so how much? I'd love your thought on this. Thanks in advance.
Simple answer, because VitK2 is not recommended in the guideline whereas Calcium/VitD is, and many doctors aren’t aware of the correlation, nor would they be likely to prescribe.
Me - AdcalD3 - 1500mg/400iu - taken twice daily, VitK2 MK7 - 100mcg once a day.
Plenty of related posts, or look at FAQs for bone health.
I once mentioned to a rheumatologist that I was taking K2 and was told it had “nothing to do with osteoporosis or calcium” !!!
I told the rheumy nurse that I was taking K2. She asked why and I told her that I believed that it directed the calcium towards the bone rather than the arteries. She erupted and said that it was absolute rubbish and had I been Googling!!!!!
And how does SHE know it is absolute rubbish?
Good question....but I didn't ask! She'd already done enough huffing and puffing over my decision to refuse sparers and my dead slower than slow taper. Don't think she agreed with the "my body, my decision" thing and that was the last straw!😀
And somewhere there is a post about shared decision making ...
Thanks so much for your information. I wish my consultant could read all the information that has been put on the forum by people like yourself.
There are some that like and follow this forum - but many are sceptical that we know anything!
My GP told me I should be very careful about what I read on the internet!! Good job I haven't relied on him is all I can say.
Well he’s correct …you may end up knowing more than him about your illness! 🤣😂
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Thanks for your reply DL. I really want to start taking Vit K and read that as you say, VitK2 MK7 is best.
The thing is, as supplements are not regulated, some supplements were found not to include the amount written on the tin....
Is it possible to ask you what make you are taking?
Thank you,
pigeon.
Zipvit - have purchased from them for years - always good service and products - zipvit.co.uk/vitamin-k2-mk-...
I trust your recommendation, Zipvit it is.
Many thanks for your kind reply DL.
pigeon
Thanks but it looks like these contain calcium. Would I be taking too much calcium if I were to take the calcichew with these. The calcichew have D3 which I also need.
It looks like an additional substance used in the manufacture of the tablets, not a therapeutic dose of calcium. However there are many different types. Mine is a capsule, which appears to have no calcium ingredient, some people use a spray. Shop around, but only from reputable sources.
If you are concerned about calcium level in this brand, there are plenty of other brands on the market, and all have to list ingredients…so have a browse.
All I can say is they are fine for me, and as mentioned above alongside AdcalD3…..but as we always say, what suits one does not necessarily suit another, and take advice from pharmacist - if you’ve got a sensible one…they are usually better at supplements than GPs.
Thank you. Just went on the website and they won't deliver them to Ireland. Good auld Brexit again!! 😥
Oh drat...or similar!🤦♀️
I think the medical profession is slow to catch up basically. I don’t think their training is geared towards supplements - they are probably put on a shelf labelled cranks. You tend to get the “ well balanced diet” lecture. It is radical that we even get Calcium and vit D on prescription. I was found to be significantly deficient in vit D, that can cause PMR type symptoms. I would not have been given this test routinely. Eventually vit K2 may join the officially useful supplements. In the meantime I am not waiting for the culture change. So I buy mine.
There was someone talking on TV the other day saying that medical training does not include nutrition and so probably not much on supplements! In fact I am not sure they learn that much about prescription medicines based on my local GPs.
Thanks so much for your reply with all that information. Hope you're keeping well.
Thank you you too!
My consultant didn’t know what K2 was and thought I meant K1 and scoffed at the idea. I don’t think more than basic nutrition is taught at medical school judging by advice I’ve been given in the past.
I don't think they even get the basics! I quoted a doctor recently on what they had done at medical school - something like 2 hours in 6 years ... That's barely enough to learn basic food groups never mind anything else!
Farcical. I'm sure that most of us were taught the food groups in secondary education. You'd think that medical school would have moved on a tad.I'm a believer in 'you are what you eat' and our diet should provide the nutrition we need. However, a lot of produce is messed around with these days with so we need that extra help 🤷♀️.
Quite - it is interesting how here in Germanic Europe they are well up on the role of diet and they do use it a lot. Don't know if the punters are any more compliant than in the UK but they do appear to be fairly healthy here!!
They probably don't have the wrong type of advertising. Here, it's ready meals, burgers and sugary stuff. Cooking from scratch isn't difficult and there are so many quick and easy recipes on line. Son and daughter-in-law relocated to Spain 20 years ago and they are true advocates for the Mediterranean diet.
You should see the dross the Italians eat and is all over their TV! When you see a fat child it is almost certainly from an Italian family. Mind you - ready meals in supermarkets are a very recent introduction here, Occasionally I regret that.
I'm surprised to hear that! I thought Italians were healthy eaters but then I only know Gino de Campo- not personally though 😂😂.I suppose ready meals have their place - probably a boon when needs must.
They were at one time - no longer! Overindulging children with sweet rubbish instead of old-fashioned cucina povera which was very healthy.
I was desperate for a few ready meals while OH was ill but was eating - 3 meals a day of food I don't/won't eat and at times I don't eat. Wasn't any meals on wheels available at the time either. M&S or S'burys would have have been a blessing.
I did in same situation …..when he was hungry he wanted something there and then, not wait for it to be cooked….which was the exact opposite of normal life!
They are…used them after my joint replacement ops, just so long as you don’t become too reliant in them.
As I’m on my own I’m apt to have a cooking day….and then freeze my own versions.
Well done! My friend has a stock of 'one pot wonders' in her freezer. I often double up on recipes so that there are some days in the week I don't need to cook apart from a bit of broc or cauliflower. Thank goodness for the freezer.
Absolutely - thank goodness for freezer…and microwave!
I meant to also mention, I am trying out Mom's Meals (sorry if I already said this) which are delivered free to our home while my husband is ill. Sort of okay, basic food groups, decently made just more carbs than I would like! They provide it through Federal programs for patients (or their caregivers) just released from the hospital here. Great to toss in microwave to warm up and useful in a pinch.
Something to be grateful for in difficult times.
I haven't finished scrolling thru the replies, but also, in some areas for example Michigan, USA where I live, there isn't enough selenium and other minerals in the soil (too depleted) so produce and grains grown here are often lacking in the very nutrition they purportedly contain. Another wrinkle!
We try to buy organic veg and fruit or locally grown stuff when we can but who knows what we are putting into our bodies? We used to see lots of allotments at one time where people grew their own produce but gradually they disappeared as land was bought up for other uses.Pesticides are a huge problem. I'm always a bit dubious when I read 'pre-washed' on bagged stuff and give it the same treatment as I do 'loose' items.
I digress!!
Our village has been very proactive about finding ‘spare’ land for allotments despite the amount of new building happening….trouble is, there aren’t enough, the lists are over subscribed…but it’s a start!
Local garden centre also set aside room for allotments.
I'm sure they are oversubscribed! Nothing like home-grown.
Very true— my late hubby was a great gardener - his first job every time we moved married quarters in the army was to dig a veg plot! Daughter followed in his footsteps (she married a farmer/horticulturalist) - so he obviously got the seal of approval!
That's a lovely story, DL.🙂
Don't think my first doc even read the guideline as I didn't get prescribed anything extra. I suggested the Vit D as my results were fairly low, decided I didn't need Calcium as I probably get enough anyway and I buy the K2. Fortunately my presents docs are more clued in, either that or they just do what I ask them to!!!!!!
Bcol, reading your posts they are obviously in awe of you; you are very knowledgable and know how to advocate for yourself. Admirable!
It will be a bit sad if they are in awe of me!! I think I just make life easy for them. I can certainly stand up for myself but most of what I know, about PMR, has come from here and the wonderful people that populate the forum.
Me too. It's good that you are able to pass your knowledge on.It's a good thing that we don't have to buy Christmas presents for all our friends here! We'd be bankrupt overnight. 😂😂
Can go with that, with nine, nearly ten grandchildren and one great grandchild Christmas is exciting enough already.
Ahh…didn’t you read the small print! 🤦🏻♀️
Obviously not, but wouldn't be without them. 🙂🙂
Actually I meant 123-go and buying us pressies! Sure you wouldn’t be without your happy crew😊
Yes. I definitely read that in the small print ! 123-go must have missed that 🤣🤣🎄
I should have gone to Specsavers!
Aah, totally misread that.
Never! Worth their weight in gold!
Thanks so much for your reply.
Thank you. Stay safe.
I had exactly the same experience just over 4 years ago. I learned about the importance of K2 from this forum and have bought my own ever since. I also learned from this forum not to take supplements at the same time as pred. I'm so glad I found the forum the very day I was diagnosed.
I also only learned of the importance of K2 through this forum, so I'm eternally grateful to everyone that contributes to the knowledge on here.
Just read your bio and discovered we have some things in common. I live in South London and am just a few months younger than you. This forum certainly brings together people with a common condition, and it is so reassuring to know that we are not alone on this journey.
I agree. Although I consulted Dr Google extensively, I didn't know about GCA and PMR until I was diagnosed and, although glad to have a diagnosis at last, I felt very alone. This forum made all the difference.
I agree. It's a great forum. Thank you.
Didn't know that not to take pred with vitamins. How long. In between where can I find out about thus please ?
Good morning, vitamin D3 is the more bioavailable one of the two, and when taken with vit K in a lipid solution, it is even more so. I take a nutri advanced supplement in a droplet form. Here is a Healthline article if you want to read further: healthline.com/nutrition/vi...
I had a medication review with a pharmacist and asked the same question, he said it does not help to take Vit k2 with Calcichew.
But how do you know it's not going to your arteries then?
My GP openly admitted she didn't know anything about vit K2. My rheumy poo-pooed it. I take it anyway. I don't want calcified arteries on top of everything else!
There’s a book by Kate Rheaume-Bleue …. Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox. It’s very interesting and tells you everything you need to know about K2.
I think there aren’t enough big studies done yet on the merits of vit k2 menaquinone. Ideally we would want to know if it prevents or improves arterial calcification, which would take years and be massively expensive.I take a Natto based k2, in the hope that it will help, ever optimistic!
I buy combined K2 120 micrograms and D3 1000 IU softgels which are readily available OTC where I live and take it with calcium daily. I am not familiar with Calichew or Adcal,
Calichew or Adcal are usually prescribed when you start Pred - weren’t you offered it by doctor?
We don't have pharmacare in Canada, and my supplements are not covered by my insurance as they are not prescription meds. Probably similar for readingbooks . However my doctor did tell me to take calcium (I already had been for years) and to double my Vitamin D. Because I have sarcoidosis my D level got too high. I was the one who asked for the D test, good thing I did.
I was interested in your communication, as you say your rheumatologist recommended Calcichew not alendronic acid. My rheumatologist and doctor are annoyed that I'm not taking the latter and that I prefer to take calcium supplements and vitamin D. They won't change my mind, ever ...... On the other hand nothing has been said about me taking K2 😀
They do different things - often having plenty of calcium available is enough to reduce the need for alendronic acid which works by slowing down the production of the cells that wear down bone (osteoclasts). This helps to improve bone strength and makes the bone less fragile. Bone is a constantly changing structure - it is broken down and replaced continuously. If it being broken down happens faster than it is being replaced, the bones become less dense. AA slows that process down. It depends on what your starting bone density is.
Thank you, that's useful to know. I will be having my bone density checked soon.
I was prescribed Alendronic Acid as well but didn't feel right on it and then didn't like what I read about it so choose to go off it and rheumy agreed with me..... My DEXA scan was good she said so it wasn't as essential...
I like the sound of your rheumy 😀. I didn’t like what I read either. I suppose the medical profession want to protect our bones, but the side effects of AA are worrying and the fact that you have to warn your dentist that you are taking it.
If you look up K2 on the Internet, you'll find a good introductory article on Healthline. There seems to be reluctance in the West to accept how important this nutrient is, and as many of us are now deficient in it, thanks to our degenerated food production practices, it's up to us look after ourselves. Some Japanese researchers go so far as to call natto, the fermented soy which is the source of our supplements, a superfood!
Sorry, you wanted to know how much Vit D. Well, I take calcium supplements amounting to 1200mg and these come with 125 micrograms of Vit D. 😺
Does anyone take Vit K2 to help with bones?
Further advice please
Question about calcium supplements
