Correlation between pred dose and immune response... - PMRGCAuk

PMRGCAuk

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Correlation between pred dose and immune response to covid vaccine

Jontie
Jontie

I recently posted an article which offered advice to pharmacists on the use of the covid-19 vaccine in patients taking immunosuppressive medicines. One piece of advice was that it is safe to have the COVID-19 vaccine alongside steroid exposure, but the patient may not mount such a good immune response.

I have been searching for more detailed information on the correlation between pred dose and immune response. Eg. It would be good to know in percentage terms, how much less effective the vaccine is, for each additional mg of pred taken. I suspect my search has been unsuccessful because such data do not yet exist. However, if anyone else has found anything relating to this, please let me know!

Thanks.

29 Replies
DorsetLady
DorsetLadyPMRGCAuk volunteer

Doubt very much if info exists as yet, and TBH I think it will be a long time until it does, if ever!

Jontie
Jontie in reply to DorsetLady

Thought as much! I guess a certain amount of anecdotal evidence can be gleaned from people's reports of their own experiences, but that's probably as good as it will get for quite a while.

PMRpro
PMRproAmbassador

I think you are correct - until they have a large cohort on pred they couldn't know. And they have to measure it too. Maybe Israel will have collected that sort of info?

An anecdotal reply.....I'm on 3mg pred and it's not quite enough to suppress symptoms. I had 36 hours of fever and aching muscles after the jab. I did wonder if it was because my immune system is over active. But it sounds too simplistic....and what do I know!

Jontie
Jontie in reply to Skodadet

Thanks for that. When I get my jab I'll report back too. I know its not empirical evidence but in the absence of that, anecdotal evidence is better than nothing!

Uisce58
Uisce58 in reply to Skodadet

Did you have the Astra Zenica of Pfizer jab with these symptoms?

Skodadet
Skodadet in reply to Uisce58

Astra Zenica.

AZ

PMRpro
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Skodadet

Possibly a mini-flare of the PMR and you noticed it more because the slightly too low dose?

Skodadet
Skodadet in reply to PMRpro

I think that was partly it but it but it wouldn't explain the fever. Felt quite unwell....more like the flu. Aching was all in the usual places and lasted longer like a mini flare but settling down now. Not complaining....very pleased to have had the jab!

PMRpro
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Skodadet

Those are all common effects of vaccine sin general - and some people get it more than others. But the general opinion amongst immunologists is that the bigger the reaction, the more likely it is that you are creating immunity!!!!!

Skodadet
Skodadet in reply to PMRpro

Thumbs up to that!

JTKD
JTKD in reply to Skodadet

I had a similar reaction to you. Im 57, on 4 ml of pred and had the Oxford vaccine.

Sheilamac
Sheilamac in reply to Skodadet

I'm on 3mg and have no symptoms and my response to the oxford jag was very similar to yours. chills, fever overnight then flu like symptoms, achey muscles, headache and generally feeling unwell for the next couple of days. Tiredness, exhaustion even, continued for a few days.

I’m on 3.75mg and I had a pretty rough reaction too - fever, shakes, aching muscles & joints, headache for about the same time ....

I'm currently taking 6.5 mg of pred per day. I had my first anti-covid jab two weeks ago (Oxford AZ) The only reaction I had, apart from a slightly sore arm, was a mild but persistent headache the following day which had cleared by the next morning.

DorsetLady
DorsetLadyPMRGCAuk volunteer in reply to Marijo1951

Usual symptoms then with or without Pred....same as me - no Pred - Pfizer jab.

I'm on 8.5 pred and I had fever and shaking with cold for 24 hours after Astra Zenica. 2 weeks later now and my Pmr is worse, pain in hips and shoulders and shaking (trembling). Very tired and depressed. I've gone up to 9 today.

I think it would be good to create a post just for noting symptoms after our jabs. What do people think?

PMRpro
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Blossom20

It is unlikely to work - and believe me, I know having tried it for other things in the past. After a few days it disappears down the list and people simply don't see it. If you look at the vaccine threads you will find dozens of replies with symptoms experienced.

Blossom20
Blossom20 in reply to PMRpro

Ok. But as you say, there are loads of replies on different threads. This would be a way of getting them in one place I thought...

I had the AZ/Oxford jab nearly 4 weeks ago. That night I woke at 1.30 am with severe headache and pain down right side of my back. The headache went by morning but was replaced with nausea and dizziness on and off for over a week. Backache remained for a few days. Also was very fatigued with odd aches and pains. I spent several days in and out of bed. After two weeks my vaccination site finally went red ! I had no fever and no temperature. The Zoe research people asked me to do a covid test, which came back negative.

My doctor said the reactions were probably due to my Histamine intolerance as well as my autoimmunity and the Pred (7mg). I nearly forgot to say that my sense of smell, which I had lost after a virus many years ago, has returned somewhat. That is a blessing.

My daughter actually was diagnosed with covid two days before my jab, and has just returned to work for a few hours each day.

Lots of my friends who have the Oxford jab have been very unwell after but nobody has reported anything untoward with the Pfizer.

Mama48
Mama48 in reply to Suet3942

My daughter lives in Ireland, they are giving the second Pfizer jab after 3weeks. She, and many of her contemporaries experienced a raised temp. Fatigue and muscle aches for about 24 hours. This seems to be more prevalent in younger people.

Thanks for the responses. I'll be hoping for some sort of after-effect because, as PMRPro said, that suggests the vaccine is doing what it's meant to do. I'm currently on 15mg so perhaps that's too high to get a decent immune response to the jab? I'll let you know when I eventually get the jab.

I had my Astra Zenica vac on the 6th Feb whilst taking 12.5mg Pred without any reaction. The same with the flu vaccine done 27 September 20 - no reaction. My PMR had been under investigation for some weeks before the flu jab and not taking Pred at that time. I also signed up to the ZOE study program and log daily.

I had the OAZ in January, on 10mg Pred and had no adverse reaction at all. Equally I get no adverse reactions from the flu jab and I've not had flu since the flu jabs started.

Jontie
Jontie in reply to Bcol

So that suggests that despite the lack of adverse reactions, the jabs are still working. Good news!

Bcol
Bcol in reply to Jontie

Fingers crossed!!!!!😀😀😀

I had Pfizer jab a month ago with just a sore shoulder. The second jab was three weeks later. Again sore shoulder, but loss of equilibrium the second day (for about six hours). My prednisone dosage for PMR is down to 2 mg this week while I attempt to eliminate prednisone in favor of Hydroxychloroquine treatment. So far so good. But the doc says the HCQ takes two months to really take effect.

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