Does a strong Covid vaccine response also suggest good news?

[MrTamborine]

I am at 14mg of Pred for PMR diagnosed oct 2020, I’ve read here that, based on two recent studies (Transplant and Cancer patients who are on strong immunosuppressants), and extrapolating from that, the guidance for PMR/Pred folk is to get the jabs but until we get more specific and relevant studies, act as if we haven’t been vaccinated yet. That logic seems sound. BUT: if my body is showing, after my 2nd Pfizer jab, a somewhat strong side effect response, does it therefore mean I can worry less about the vaccine being suppressed by prednisone?

[Bcol]

Morning MrT. I don't think their is any scientific evidence to show that a strong reaction means you are better immunised, although I do agree that does appear to be often mentioned. I had no reaction all but I'm not taking that as a bad sign. I get my 2nd in a few days and yes that will make me feel happier, but personally I will not be changing my present behaviour patterns for quite a while yet.

[Kendrew]

I agree completely with BCol. I watched a webinar from the Zoe Covid symptom study, where Prof Tim Spector spoke about this very topic. He suggested that some people who experience a strong reaction to their vaccination should not be alarmed by this as it's merely a sign of the body building up it's immune response. However, those people who experienced a minimal reaction should not see this as a sign of no immune response as this simply wasn't true either. Both sets of recipients will be building up an immune response but your level of reaction is definitely not a gauge to measure your level of immunity. Many healthy people will show little or no reaction to their vaccination but will have a good level of protection. It's important to say though that people on higher doses of steroids are likely to have less of an immune response and therefore less protection from covid-19 so very important to continue maintaining safe protocols.

[MrTamborine in reply to Kendrew]

Thanks! I'd like to watch that Zoe study. Is there a link?

[DorsetLady PMRGCAuk volunteer]

Hi,

To be honest we should all continue to act as if we haven’t been vaccinated until at least 2-3 weeks after our second jab! Maybe longer. A message which doesn’t seem to have come across strongly enough.

As for the individual’s reaction to the vaccine, it’s based on many things, and as already stated just because you don’t have a strong reaction doesn’t necessarily mean you aren’t protected.

But if your immune system is compromised it is recognised that you may not be as well protected as someone whose system isn’t.

One reason why a stronger reaction happens is if the recipient has already had Covid previously - that happened to my son. His and his wife reaction - both vaccinated same batch, both same age..

...significantly different reactions.

Immune system “recognises” intruder and reacts - similar may happen when you have the second vaccine.

[MrTamborine in reply to DorsetLady]

Hi DL! Thanks for responding. Yes, not enough people know that they aren't "fully vaccinated" until after the waiting period following their final shot. I get that people without side effects/responses shouldn't worry that the vaccine ISN'T working. My question is the opposite: does a good strong response indicate that the vaccine IS working, perhaps even normally? The answer to this could be especially important for our PMR/Pred group since the immunocompromised studies to date (transplant and cancer patients) have focused on DMARDs not prednisone.

[DorsetLady PMRGCAuk volunteer in reply to MrTamborine]

Actually PMRpro has put up post re steroids and vaccine- healthunlocked.com/pmrgcauk....

[MrTamborine in reply to DorsetLady]

Yes I saw that. PMRpro to the rescue, thankfully, with data once again!

[DorsetLady PMRGCAuk volunteer in reply to MrTamborine]

Actually PMRpro has put up post re steroids and vaccine- healthunlocked.com/pmrgcauk....

[Selfbuilder]

A bit more anecdotal but the medic who gave me the jab (military type!) suggested that if I had minimal reaction to the flu jab, the same would apply to covid. This was the case and supports the science that Kendrew reports....

[PMRpro Ambassador]

I think it was a ZOE talk recently said that there is no direct link between strength of reaction to the jab and immunity developed - they were saying it terms of people being worried it wasn't happening because they had no reaction.

healthline.com/health-news/...

It's a bit like having fully comprehensive insurance - I've no intention of testing the payout! I don't see me behaving significantly differently for some time to come. At least not until the numbers are very low as a result of the vaccination campaign plus they have worked out the situation with mutations. If a mutation occurs that makes it mega-infectious and is resistant to the existing vaccines you could easily be back in the same situation. Once the numbers are down the risk of mutations also falls - like masks, like all the precautions, the vaccine is only part of the overall way back to relatively normal life. But like with chronic illness, it will be a different normal.

[MrTamborine in reply to PMRpro]

Hello PRMPro! Yep, That's the way I interpret the Zoe study too. Comforting for those who had no reaction. Doesn't really speak to my question though: does a strong side effect or response -- even for someone like me with PMR and on Pred -- mean that the vaccine is, in fact, working? I'm not planning to significantly alter my behaviors (mask, distancing etc) in general, but the CD here in the US is giving somewhat relaxed guidance now for those who have been fully vaccinated, especially with respect to gathering with others who have also been fully vaccinated. Short of a positive Covid antibody test, a strong side effect may be the best news we PMR folk could get, at least until further more relevant studies come out. Just looking for the bright side.... Thoughts?

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to MrTamborine]

Have you seen my post about the apparent effect of pred on the immune response? Unless they test us widely they won't find out will they? I'm assuming nothing!

[MrTamborine in reply to PMRpro]

Yes, I saw your post on this. Grrrr. A small preliminary study but it does seem more on point than other previous two. Based on it, we must continue to be cautious. I’m still fascinated by the idea that each of us are different and perhaps some of us, immunosuppressed or not, may in fact get a strong side effect/response and therefore be protected more like what an immunocompetent would experience. Oh, here’s another thought: perhaps I should get the same test as in this study, just out of curiosity to see what my own strong side effect/response correlates to? Can’t wait, as you say, until they test us wisely.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to MrTamborine]

A friend on the lupus forum said her brother was sent to work from home a year ago - told then it would be for 2 years and is now being told he may never work in an office again. Someone there had a good crystal ball at the time - but they are finding it has a lt of positives. Bet other sick leave has plummeted ...

[piglette]

I am hoping the anecdotal suggestion that it means you have a good suppression to Covid is true, as I had an awful reaction!!

[MrTamborine in reply to piglette]

Yep. The logic of this seems solid, at least to me. Fingers crossed and let's wait to hear from others who know more.