I happen to take Vit D3 supplements and I presume many others on this forum do also. I knew about the adverse affects of taking too much Vit D3. So I do not take them every day. I take them 5 times a week during the winter months and then 3 times a week during the summer. But I did NOT know taking too much could kill you! If you're taking these make sure to watch your calcium levels.
Man Killed by Vitamin D Supplements
businessinsider.com/man-kil...
Rexz
Hi Rexz
Very interesting and so important that we all understand the consequences of too little and too much. Whilst it’s not as black and white as I portray it is important to keep an eye on cumulative levels.
On a personal note I struggled to raise my vitamin D levels but once achieved I find my maintenance needs relatively low supplementation.
🤗🤗🤗
Hi Rexz, that's a necessary reminder regarding fat soluble vitamins. During the pandemic we were all encouraged to increase vit d during the winter but it's imported to do your own research regarding the right amount. When I asked my GP to check my levels as I was concerned about calcium intake and osteoprosis I was surprised it was no longer done on the NHS.🤔
Vitamin D and Calcium was tested in my last NHS blood test
My surgery stopped issuing vitamin D prescriptions some time ago, we received letters informing us that we would now have to purchase these supplements ourselves. I asked if my vitamin D levels could be tested to see if I still needed them but was told that they no longer tested for vitamin D levels.
I was surprised as I had been issued with a prescription since they tested me 5 years ago and I was found to be deficient, this was at the same time as my PA was diagnosed.
I am continuing to take a maintenance dose of vitamin D3 along with K2 as I have osteoporosis.
If your GP practice is independent, they can make their own rules
I agree as in my experience independent Doctors/GPs tend to better at critical thinking.
Clinical Practice Guidelines are OK but physicians need to be trained in that they are NOT rules nor are they directives or legally binding. There may be consistency of "Guidelines" but there is not consistency in interpretation. Some physicians view them as directives, some view them as rules, others ignore them entirely. NIH defines guidelines as:
"Guidelines summarize the current medical knowledge, weigh the benefits and harms of diagnostic procedures and treatments, and give specific recommendations based on this information. They should also provide information about the scientific evidence supporting those recommendations. Clinical practice guidelines must be updated regularly."
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK3...
My view is that too many physicians use them as a crutch as they take away any responsibility to critically think about what may be the best treatment. They just have to record "they followed the guideline" nothing else required.
Rexz
Thanks Nackapan, do you mind telling me what area you are in. I am in the Derbyshire area. I have spoken with some friends who live in my area and have been given the same information , so maybe it depends on the location.
Mid Essex
Thank you, my daughter lives in Wivenhoe Essex. The weather is so different to ours .
my daughters Vit D and calcium tested few months ago and apparently will be retested next month
Since when? Not heard that grim news. My vit D was last checked end of October '23 and I want it rechecked. I'm in Calderdale.
Not many realise just how toxic Vit D3. It needs to be taken as prescribed or as stated on the packaging.
I have been prescribed two 25mg daily for many years due to my having hypoparathyroidism. Over the years the consultant has become very laxed with regard to checking my kidney function, i'm supposed to have regular kidney scans but that seems to have dwindled too ! Maybe I should chase them up when next in clinic.
I dont want to end up in a ⚰. 😱
Thanks for the warning Rexz.
Why does the report not state how much this man consumed . . . . . Many have been taking 4000iu per day for years with no problems even those of us who have blood tests every 6 months. . . . . .
That's a great question Old man. Seems they should have included some discussion on that like how one size dose doesn't fit all as the variables between individuals makes a difference also. Such as individual absorption rates, amount of time in the sun ( e.g., how much you own body is making). So it's just important to keep an eye on your serum D and calcium levels. I think anyway.
Rexz
I can just imagine someone who SI'd B12 passing and the doc discovering such and the blood shows massively elevated levels of B12. . . . . . I would not be surprised if the idiot type would not use that as reason for popping your cloggs. . . . . . . To have overdosed to the point of death in a 9 month period I think it read would need a serious amount of Vit D and like you say. . . . . No mention of type 2 or 3 . . . . . It is 3 I take . . . D3 K2 MK7. . . . . . I am no expert but I'd bet that the person had underlaying problems other than Vit D?
Also it is beginning to look like Vit D def can have very adverse negitive effects on our lungs. . . . . Vit D being a seasonal vitamin and there is little doubt that many considder thier chest problems to be seasonal.. . . . .
Agree, OldmanD, we must be mindful of what we take, even the seemingly innocuous. I've some boning up to do on Vitamin D myself.
Rexz
My wife is being treated for osteoporosis and has all sorts of meds inc forsteo??. . . . . We didnt realise that one of her prescription meds contained Vit D. . . . . . Said Calcium in big print so that is all she seen as such. . . . . She took a further 4000iu same as my own . . . . .. After near on two years only the last blood test showed her to be slightly over the high number but nothig alarming and they told her to stop her own Vit D3 but continue with the prescribed ones . . . .
Should read Deficiency can have a very adverse effect. . . . . .
It's about time our medics were taught the importance of nutrician.....be it too much or too little of a vitamin can have adverse effect.
Both my son and I have suffered the ill effect of hypocalcemia which is now treated with calcitrial...... I assume that is what your wife is being prescribed.
No doubt that will have somesort of ill effect in the long run........keep eyes peeled for the next news bulletin. 📰🗞
My eldest done her dietetics at Queen Margaret Edinburgh . Hons. . . . . . She has had 3 GP's try to give bad advice over the years since and one she had to go to town on one simply because he was wrong and was not going to back down on being wrong. . . . .I dont remember the story but it was in the clueless catagory. . . . . I am the doctor therefore I am right. . . . . When you are close to this nutrition thing for a while ye begin to learn that doctors generally havnt a clue. . . . . My daughter eventually walked away from it. . . . . The doctors refer patients to anywhere to get rid of them. . . . . Most she would say didnt need a dietician but instead needed a therapist. . . . . . So I am very cautious about all these referals people get and because they are being sent to a specialist or perhaps two they think they are meeting the experts on B12 problems. . . . . Its not so long ago that "that woman" quoted in westmonster the UK's leading Haematologist as saying that after the loading injection patients would not need any further intervention for the rest of their lives. . . . . . It doesnt inspire one with confidence. . . . . . I met a gastro consultant who had an interest in this when I had my camera jobs done and even with having an interest he said as best I remember "B12 D is not a topic of certainty". . . . . . I'd have time for a man like that. . . .
I love your quote of Westmonster. 😃 👾
I am seen by a top lead London Haematologist who told me she new nothing of B12 deficiency - she went on to quote she is just a poor anticoagulist! 💰💸🤔 I wouldn't mind her bank balance.
In 1976 when they discovered my Vit D wasn't even on the damned radar, I appriciate little was known of the condition in those days - but we are now in 2024 ! Wakey wakey it's time they got their heads out from where that gastrologist stuck his camera. 📷 I had that done last month, not the best experience. 😱
I have only had one Dr who admitted he new naff all about Hypoparathyroidism. Give him his due he told me if he was going to be my Gp it was his duty to educate himself with regard to the condition ! Mind you that was some years ago now,
A monster is something that cannot be controlled!!!!!!
I think there really needs to be another sector .. . . . . One a level beyond my daughters level . . . . . One that studies about all these vitamins and nutrients and how they work in the body. . . . . Not just diet V weight, heart problems etc . . . . The bigger picture. . . . .
I also compare some to electricians. . . . . . Near to every country has a code of some sort to work to . . . . . UK has the 18th Edition . . . . . I had the 17th a few years ago. . . . The code is set out in very simple terms . . . . Follow that code and nothing "should" go wrong and if anything does go wrong ye cannot be blamed because you followed the code and an awful lot on life has became like that. . . . . Building regs similar . . . . Here however there has to be and engineer and an architect oversee every house being built and we pay for their services but like all consultants if anything happens its not their fault because they followed the code. . . . . A consultant of which there are many seems to get away with murder. . . . . Consultants can offer advice, quoted from other peoples books and as long as they use other peoples numbers if you will nothing is their fault. . . . Look at the Grenfel tower thing. . . . . How many have ran round in circles avoiding flak . . . . . . What a tragedy. . . . Really that was a gamble. . . Now the biggest gamblers. . . Bankers campaigned for the rules to be loosened as they know what they are doing they say,, but they still follow the rules even if there are none they maintain they follow a code. . . . . Every time things go wrong in any of these fields it is the Gov, the tax payer who picks up the bill. . . . The rules are not for our benefit . . . The rules are for the benefit of the professionals. . . . . And the higher up the ladder ye get the more vague the rules become . . . . . . The patient should be listened to not treated like a zombie... . . . .
I agree with you about rules not being for our benefit. It is for that reason I have never looked at the local guidelines for b12 deficiency.
Calcichew. . . . . . . The Chemists label is stuck on over the manufacturers label so we didnt see the D3 bit. . . . . I would think it'll do any harm provided your bloods are watched. . . . . .
My son and I couldn't get on with the calichew hence the calcitrial........i'm still alive and kicking been on it for many year.
I shall give my endo a swift kick to make sure he keeps an eye on me albeit I do feel better on a slightly higher Vit D.
It's all good fun and what would we have to discuss if our medics got it right ?
I was a mechanic to trade. . . . . Wish I'd never bothered. . . . . A most thankless business in which people for some reason think they have a never ending line of credit with you. . . . . . . I then moved into engineering and electrics. . . . . . I obviously then am no doctor of the body but I do draws comparisons in my mind. . . . .. The body is a machine of sorts albeit the body cannot be switched off and laid up for a while. . .. . . But as time has went on I have seen the generations come forward and as each comes forward ever more mess ups are being made and to listen to them ye'd think they know everything and us golden oldies know nothing. . . . . Its all computers now and ye's dont know anything about modern vehicles/machine . . . . One really does meet the odd one who is right out there with it. . . . . . The reality is however that all the original stuff is still in the machines . . . . .ALL. . . . And I dismantled and rebuilt/repaired it ALL. . . . . . Today they dont rebuild engines/gearboxs/transmission etc they either send them off or get another unit. . . . . Those bits are no different than they were 20 years ago apart from a few cables and levers and cables being replaced by actuators which are pretty simple. . . . . The real pains would have ye believe that it takes forever to learn all about how these modern system work??. . . . Oddly I keep a laptop with the complete suite of software for our vehicles and I understand it because I understand what the software is tryng to do . . . . . There are no new sensors, no new actuators just good old machineery . . . . . Well as many would start off the sentence the older doctors treated the patient not the lab work and both B12 and Thyroid problems seem be suffering from the lab work being treated instead of the patient. . . . . So much seems to revolve around the results machines kick out and I dont mind machines. . . . What I dont like is the smart ass's who will have ye believe that they and their machines know more than ever when in fact the human body has not changed. . . . Ye can add a pacemaker. . . . Rather old tech that but the modern ones are pretty good but really like the vehicles it still comes down to basics.. . . . All too ofetn basics are being ignored. . . . . .
Its a throw away society today where as we made things to last that could be repaired. We dont have quaility control anymoore.
I worked in enginneering I can still smell it now. Many happy hours spent on the fly presses. Not so good if you catch your finger under one, I still have the scar.
I wonderful Prof who diagnosed my sticky blood condition said to me 'If only more consultants would listen to the patient'.......if only.
Amen Jillymo, they would just as well throw the likes of "us" away.After all we are somewhat amiss much like that machine that just needs a squirt of oil or a tightening if it's thingamajig! 🤕
Indeed they would......many of us need our thingamajig tightened. 🔧
I see like myself you suffer with Sjogrens.......a squirt of oil wouldn't go amiss with that one. 🛢👈 it's an oil drum.
I must get on it's Muvs day and my daughter will be bring me some unwanted delights no doubt.....bless her. 💐 🍫......better txt her to make sure she doesn't forget the chocolate. 😋
The problem goes way beyond quality control and has everything to do with making profits. We now live in a world where production falls into the realms of 'planned obsolescence'.
I saw a very informative and easy to understand short film about that some years back, here it is:
Vitamin D is not a seasonal vitamin. It is required by the body all year round.
People able to get out and about might need less in summer. However, housebound and people with other disabilities such as porphyria or those living in the northern hemisphere, will need supplementation of vitamin D whether the sun shines or not.
My writing and grammar may not have been that good there but I think those in the conversation taking place got what I was meaning.. . . . .My written english is not good at the best of times. . . . . Cant do much about that . . . . I was referring to something I read about bad chests something I suffer from and that it may be possible that the lack of Vit D as in Vit D Deficiency may have an effect of chest problems in winter those problems being more pronounced, more reported in winter when there is less sunlight thus we make less Vit D so those with bad chests may need to supplement with Vit D. . . . . . Therefore for many it could be a seasonal vitamin. . . . .A vitamin they may need to take in winter, , , , , Many will say the weather effects their chest but there may be more than simply weather. . . . It could actually be short daylight hours that effect the chest . . . . . .Maybe not for everyone but for those with bad chests which I mentioned. . . . .
Thank you, I understand now what you mean.
Incidently, I would never criticise anyone’s style of writing whether it’s grammatically correct or not. I feel that people should be encouraged to write about a subject they care about, without worrying about what others might think.
Anyway, I don’t think vitamin D is linked to bad chests. However, when you have a bad chest, a fever or other illness, vitamin D levels will drop.
Also, I live in Scotland where the sun doesn’t shine much in winter. It’s cold, damp and grey therefore, our vitamin D can’t get converted into a usable form. In the winter, we wears hats, scarves and gloves and coats to cover every inch of our skin. Therefore, it doesn’t matter whether the sun comes out or not, we Scott’s are covered up to the max.
For this reason, people in Scotland should take vitamin D supplements in the winter.
Other parts of the world will have similar problems and will also benefit from vitamin D supplements.
My levels were only 9 when first diagnosed. I had terrible muscle and joint pain but the pain in the soles of my feet were the worst. Now I take 400 iu every day when I eat a fat containing meal.
You will find that there is ongoing research into the effect of Vit D def on patients with COPD etc and it is pretty much shown that during covid patients who had been supplementing at reasonable levels with Vit D faired better by avoiding ICU etc . . . . . Japan I think had the highest or certainly high numbers of supplementing. . . . . It was shown that Japan uses a larger amount of Vit D when compared to here. . . . . Data from Israel was also used . . .israel is sunny and people are out in the sun yet as we get older even from 50 or before onwards sunlight is of little benefit to us and most older people suffer from a lack of Vit D, , , , , So really most if not all mature peopel require Vit D supplementation. . . . . . I dont think Vit D prevented covid but it did greatly effect the outcomes. . . . . The difference between avoiding ICU and a ventilator or worse and not being there at all. . . . . . There are those in the field who would recommend Vit D as a prevention in chest problems and as you write Vit D drops during chest infections which means it is getting used up during such events.. . . . . Taking the varient of Vit D available to us after the event was shown as being of little to no value. . . . . To achieve those benefits one has to be taking Vit D on an ongoing basis. . . . . . There is a variant of Vit D that can be administered after the event that does have an effect albeit nothing like as beneficial as ongoing however that variant/type is not available to us/you. . . . . Is is used elsewhere in the world for human consumption but is only used here in the animal industry and is not available to prescribe. . . . . . The amounts discussed/shown to have been used were commonly between 2000iu to 4000iu daily. . . . . . . It is not a one man alone quack crusade on the subject. . . . . . I am not here to debate this I am merely passing on that which I watched and then read about some time ago. . . . . . I was very glad I had been taking Vit D3 K2 for some years prior. . .. . .as best I know I have never had covid or certainly have never had a positive test and if I have had it it certainly did not move into my chest and I was not hospitalised despite taking chest infections at every turn in the road. .. . . The B12D problems dont have much research either because there is no money in the subject . . . . . Once Cyanocobalaminn became available in injectable form the research was over. . . . . PA was treatable and that was that. . . . .. You will note a ongoing debate preference thing about Cyanocobalamin and hydroxocobalamin. . . . Hydroxo being favoured because it stays in the body for longer . . . . . . Everything you read will tell you just that but I dont see any data on how much longer hydroxo remans in the body. . . . . I simply dont know but "Remains in the body for longer" does not seem like a good answer to me. . . . I use both and I see not one bit difference. . . . . There may be a noteable advantage with hydroxo for those with PA who can put up with 3 monthly jabs but for those of us who SI daily or every couple of days maybe not. . . . . Research in Australia right back into the 70s when they used radio markers showed that the over 95% of cobalamin had departed via urine in few days and that was pretty much confirmed by a later attempt using much more modern machinery in the US. . . . . .There will be those who rise and defend hydroxo but for me I dont really care. . . . . . Hydroxo is perhaps better on some fronts and certainly is lifesaver in fire events where it is used in 5000 x the normal dosing as used for B12D or PA. to capture cyanide in the body before it poisons the person . . . . Doctors for the most part were not aware of B12D and all the problems that go with it. . . . . . . There is no definitive tests for B12D and the medical industry were pretty much in denial of such until the numbers were noticeable such that a small number of doctors began to treat it as they found it rather than waiting for research that was not going to happen in any meaningful basis. . , , People were sick and needed treatment instead of being told its in your head . . . . .i think ME and Fibromyalgia were a godsend to doctors who didnt know or didnt want to acknowledge the B12D problem. . . . . I certainly was one of those who got told there is nothing wrong with you.. . . .To me tests that are 50% accurate would not be accepted in many other areas and that is why I am not asking my doctors for ongoing tests. . . .Ireland has this program of prevention so I get blood tests done here every 6 months because of my chest and B12D problems. . . . It does not include a B12 results as those would be useless at this point. . . . . . B12 has to be elevated tp be any use to us as it is disappearing from our systems so quickly.. . . . . We do not have the ability to keep it or return it our blood and it along with a others are responsible right down the dna levels. . . . . . We cannot do without it even outside of poor red blood cells . . . . . . Dr Chandy put his head on the block and the establishment treated him with distain but his efforts are paying off today as is that of the Movie Sally Pacholok which while badly made did convey the story.. . . . . A story that many tried and still try to sweep below the carpet.. . . . . GP clinics avoid it like the plague yet the cost of treatment are very small besides the alternatives . . . . . . . . . I think most of us here are aware of where Scotland is, its weather, its midges and iindeed its beauty. . . . .
Much to digest here, some I agree with and some I don’t. However, as you said, you’re not up for debate, this is your understanding from what you have read.
Nevertheless, what is clear from all of the posts is that there are an awful lot of questions to be asked. Questions where the answers cannot be found in current research.
I believe we need to push forward with our questions and try to get noticed.
Micronutrients in my opinion, are much more important than we think!
Yes but nutrients are ignored . . . . . We'll just shove a load of supplements in cereal's and bread, problem cured . . . . If you are coming in from a health care background which you may well be you need to leave the majority of what ye were told years at the door . . . . . My eldest done her Dietics with honours in Queen Margaret and some knew that even as they did their finals they had to answer questions to suit the exams not the direction research was going. . . . . By the time she had her the year done the rules were starting to change but some of her peers still refered to what they were taught. . . . They were not going to change. . . . . Programming done thats that. . . . My sons woman is a consultant anesthetist and will tell you taht they have to follow the guidelines and when she discovered I si'd she told my son waste of money but as she looked into it she changed her mind. . . . . . You have to be confronted by the problem on a personal level . . . . All the teaching would go against the Vit D thing yet you know during an infection the levels drop and they cannot be replace quickly something to do with absorbsion again I believe so ye have to maintain a higher level that you/we were taught about. . . . . Anyhow. . . The weather and the short days are a changing for us folk who live in the dark north. . . . .
In the US, Doctors get very little lecture on nutrition. I've made it a point of asking my doctors about this. I think most say they get a few hours of lecture. When I specifically ask about vitamin B12 they either don't recall or say like 15 minutes...
Funny that you mention the weather.
Did you know that Scotland is called the sick man of Europe?
This sparked a hive of research in all directions. One of those research trails was about the weather. Researchers discovered that people from Scotland would still suffer from the same heart and lung disease and deficiencies, even when they lived abroad.
I have only recently returned to Scotland after 26 years living abroad in warm climates, eating Mediterranean diet.
Yet my vitamin D deficiency was so severe it was barely registering when my blood results came back.
My muscles would go into spasms and my joints ached but the worse pain was in the soles of my feet… I was in agony.
I lived in the middle of the forest where the air was fresh and clean. I would go out in the courtyard in my nightie to hang out the washing and feed the animals. During this time I would soak up the sunshine… without sunscreen which would block the sun’s rays.
The best time to covert vitamin D is said to be before the midday sun ☀️, and I was out there.
Obviously, despite the sunshine, I was not converting vitamin D into a usable form.
This was puzzling. I was diagnosed with pernicious anaemia aged 28 years therefore, I knew that I had problems with absorption in the micro villi of the small bowel. However, B12 is a water soluble vitamin and vitamin D a fat soluble vitamin. Meaning, different absorption pathways.
Now this process alone begs many questions as did my deficiency aged 45 years while living in constant sunshine.
Was it because I was Scottish?
20,000 iu of Cholecalciferol weekly gradually helped my mobility to improve and the pain in the soles of my feet disappeared .
Doctors have put me on vitamin D supplements and hydroxycobalamin injections for life.
I wish I was younger, I would have loved to get my teeth into this research.
I dont know. . . . . Your genes and mine are likely to be pretty similar. . . Very I would guess and the habitat was prob similar . . . Havnt said N S E W of scotland as yet and scotland is pretty long place with diverse everything, , , , ,until I moved a 100mile south that is. . . . Southern and western scots are very close to much of the northern half of Ireland genetically despite political differences between some. . . . Mostly the coastal areas thouogh as the Irish sea was the motorway for them before steam. . . . . . The eldest who went to queen margaret had all sorts of stats about scottish health and I never heard her mention climate once . . . . . We have other relations rather well up in Rosshire without any undue problems. . . . . . But Glasgow/Edinburg belt has loads of health problems some because of diet and the same as many things we didnt associate with genetics some of those diet related problems can be passed on .. . . . . The Orkneys have all sorts of genetic quirks and although this is not confined to Orkney the problems are well known. . . . . Hemochromatosis is bad right across the celtics so much so Ireland screens for it. . . . The second my wife said her father had it she was on her way to have her blood taken again along with that eldest daughter . . . . NI . . . . Sorry no screening here . . . Dont need it . . . . . Different people ye know???. . . . . Bury head in sand. . . . .
This is very interesting, puzzling, and insightful mauschen and also the reply from OldmanD
My vitamin D levels are low if I don't take my supplement and I take 10,000 iu four days a week in the winter.
I do have Scottish, English, Irish and Norwegian heritage so maybe some gene that affects vitamin d absorption I have? or is it related to PA??
I have never used sunscreen and am outside in the sun often living in Southern California USA. I don't ever burn but rather just rather tan quite easily. Yet I still have to take vitamin D?
But I must say even though I've ancestors who were Scottish I could not possibly say "ye" as well as Oldman!😉
Now my curiosity is peaked.
Rexz
Mauschen, Great words of wisdom! Modern medicine still knows very little about how our bodies function including the use of vitamins. I find it best to always, as much as possible, try the natural route. Even with vitamin D, I am fairly certain there are undiscovered benefits of being in natural sunlight verses popping a vitamin D capsule.
Rexz
Most of the info is in this report. . .. . . sorry it is from Isreal but it is relevant if ye ignore the Israel thing for some. . . . .
timesofisrael.com/1-in-4-ho...
Midgies indeed . . . . . Some years ago we were visiting relatives not far from Marybank, Muir of Ord . . . . . . There is a hydro dam near by and 20 odd mile up stream there is a little lough. . . . . . My wifes parenst were with us and we took them up the glen. . . . . . The second we stopped they opened the doors and I was shouting...no dont get out. . . . . . My mother in law is one of those people who midges dont bother but himslef and my wife jupmed back in covered in the things. . . . They hadnt seen human blood like forever and they made the most of it. . . . . . 100's red sploches everywhere. . . . . . But the worst I had with tehm wwee b=====s was when I was 15 in the moss cutting turf/peak . . . . . . That was the last time I ever ventured into a moss/bog . . . . . .
Yes, not seasonal for those that can't get out and soak some sun. But even for those their treatment should be to get out in the sun and absorb some sunshine. There's nothing better than natural treatments. When my dad was bedbound and in a care home. I would go most every chance I got to wheel him outside and enjoy some sunshine. That said, there are some who are not afforded that opportunity so there you are correct.
But for the majority of people it is considered seasonal. I for one lesson my dose during the summer months.
Best wishes, Rexz
Scary stuff Rexz. Thanks for sharing.
Its important to understand that to reach the Vitamin D levels that he was measured at would require overdosing at multiples of the tolerable upper limit.
Vitamin D3 is not the active form and must be transformed into the active hormone before taking effect, a process that is generally very well regulated but possible to overwhelm if truly gigantic doses are used long-term. I am not sure from the coverage whether he was even taking calcitriol, the active form, which would be a very different story as the risk of hypercalcemia is much greater there.
Although I cannot find any source confirming what he was dosing, I am pretty confident it is going to be in the tens of thousands IU daily.
Via Mayo Clinic:
"Taking 60,000 international units (IU) a day of vitamin D for several months has been shown to cause toxicity. This level is many times higher than the U.S. Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for most adults of 600 IU of vitamin D a day."
mayoclinic.org/healthy-life...
For most people, anything between 1,000IU and 2,000IU is safe and adequate if you are not regularly getting sufficient sunlight. If you are obese or have absorption issues you might need a higher dosage 3,000IU or 4,000IU based on blood results. But unless you have a deficiency you likely will not need to exceed the safe upper limit of 4,000IU. As your dose increases especially beyond 10,000 IU adverse effects are increasingly likely, up to and including hypercalcemia and death.
I take 2,000IU vitamin D every day and I'm very confident from every nutrition science angle I've looked at that this a completely safe dosage.
Yes Technoid. . . . . . It is this careless, perhaps manipulative media reporting that drives me nuts at times. . . . . If media reports on a shooting they will most likely tell us how many times the victim was hot and by what calibre of gun but Vit D has neither a type nor a dose . . . . . Vit D ends up the bad guy yet Vit D did not have a say.. . . . . Such reports cause perfectly sane people to stop doing things that are perfectly good for them. . . . . . Scaremongering to sell news. . . . . I have to admit I am a "little" overweight. . . . . Something that came with the exhaustion years ago.. . . . . But that is my fault, not the fault of Vit B12 nor my failed doctors of years gone by. . . . . It was I who ate . . . .
What you say Oldman, "vitamin D had no say..."I don't know about you but my vitamin D capsules talk to me!! 😂
I see now why you stuck up for those younger "Ds" as it appears you are an older kin see...Oldman"D". 🤣😂
Kidding aside, this is a great discussion though.
I do apologize for eating your relations!
Rexz
Thank you TechnoidThat is very informative. Sheds a new light on this topic. This was another sensational headline presenting very little real data.
Best wishes, Rex
The thing with vitamin D is that people who supplement with it absolutely need to get their level tested regularly (in the beginning every 4 months and when the level is stable once a year). The dosage an individual might need can be vastly different. For instance I need 7.000 IE daily to hold a level of about 80 ng/l. My mum is fine with 1.000 IE.Also does vitamin D need cofactors just like B12. Especially magnesium but also vitamin K2, vitamin A, Boron. Taking vitamin D on its own is never a good idea.
Yes I wouldn't take it without monitoring blood levels . I've only just moved to 6 monthly after 5 yrsrs of 3-4 monthly via NHS
It depends. If you're taking less than the tolerable upper limit of 4,000 IU then there is no risk of toxicity. If you decide to exceed that, then it is wise to get your Vitamin D level checked regularly to ensure that you're not supplementing to toxic levels, although toxicity is usually seen only over 10,000IU.
Low Vitamin D levels may be caused by many chronic health conditions, obesity or absorption issues. It is usually better to identify and if possible, address these issues rather than just cranking Vitamin D doses upwards to compensate. If the Vitamin D level is caused by poor absorption which cannot be resolved (for example because of surgery), then it makes sense to dose adequately to compensate and check levels if you regularly exceed the tolerable upper limit.
Generally there is no particular reason to check Vitamin D levels when taking 4,000IU or less if you are worried about toxicity (other than because of supplement dosage safety concerns but that would apply to most supplements).
The usage of co-factors in this context is vague and contrasts with its specific meaning in biochemistry:
"A cofactor is a non-protein chemical compound or metallic ion that is required for an enzyme's role as a catalyst (a catalyst is a substance that increases the rate of a chemical reaction). Cofactors can be considered "helper molecules" that assist in biochemical transformations. "
B12 is actually itself a "co-factor", and it fulfils this role for only 2 enzymes, methionine synthase (with B12 in the form of methylcobalamin) and Methylmalonyl COA mutase (with B12 in the form of adenosylcobalamin).
The more general use of the term "co-factors" (common on this forum and elsewhere to be fair) seems to simply mean any nutrient that is required for any other nutrient to function properly. Although some nutrients do function in closer proximity to each other (folate and B12), biochemistry is an enormously interlinked and interdependent process with a great many essential nutrients. It doesn't make any sense from a biochemical perspective to say that things like Magnesium, Vitamin A, Vitamin K2, Boron, are "co-factors of vitamin D", because in this sense, every essential nutrient is a co-factor.
Vitamin K2 is not an essential nutrient - it can be generated from Vitamin K1.
Boron is not an essential nutrient but is considered "probably essential" by the World Health Organization - confirmed Boron deficiencies are so rare that symptoms of deficiency have not been firmly established : ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/B...
It is likely that if you got anywhere close to developing a Boron deficiency, your diet or absorption would be so poor that other deficiencies with more obviously deleterious outcomes would far outweigh any Boron deficiency concerns. On the scale of things to worry about, I would say Boron is somewhere between trivial and inconsequential.
Sufficient Vitamin A can be obtained from conversion from Beta-Carotene with a good diet.
Taking Vitamin D on its own, as long as you do not exceed the upper limit, is safe and does not require testing. If you exceed the upper limit, especially on a regular basis, then you should get tested to ensure you are not developing toxicity and in my opinion, focus less on getting the the Vitamin D level to a specific level and more on what might be causing the persistently low Vitamin D despite normally adequate supplementation levels.
To learn more about Vitamin D from a clinicians perspective this podcast may be useful:
My doctor tests my Vitamin D levels every year even though my maintenance dose of 5,000 units per day hasn’t changed. It took me years to reach a range in the 60’s and it’s not easy to raise levels. I had to begin with an Rx and then switch to maintenance. I would imagine someone would have to take a lot of D to even reach the upper limit of 100. Thanks for the post. Lots of people don’t realize D isn’t water soluble and can be harmful in large doses.
Is 60 a ng/L measurement ? In the UK the measurement is mostly pmol/L. 60 x 2.5 = UK Level. The link below is American but contains the conversion tables and many informative research papers....
Of course the sun is best but with millions taking statins the VitD pathway is blocked ??
Oh I didn’t know that statins block the Vitamin D pathway? No wonder my mom can’t get her levels up despite being on a Rx for years! I will tell her this
That’s interesting. I am not sure about the measurement here? I don’t take a statin YET but I am fair-skinned and use sunblock religiously so I have to supplement. My kids are the same way—outdoor athletes who spend a lot of time in the sun but sunblock keeps their bodies from making vitamin D
I just know that under 30 is a deficiency and the number shouldn’t be over 100. It took me years to get my level in the 60’s and my doctor is really happy with that number. Thanks for your response!
Look at grassrootshealth.net
They suggest a dose of 1.000 iu's for every 10 points below 60 ng/L ( US and elsewhere) 150 pmol/L UK.
Statins also hinder CoQ10 pathway which can be taken....
judiciary.uk/prevention-of-...
No information on the dose unfortunately but the named company sell packages of up to 1,000 capsules of 5,000IU each.
naturplus.uk/collections/vi...
It is also possible that the supplements contained a higher dose than stated on the label which unfortunately does happen sometimes. There are no overdose warnings on the label but it does indicate to take one daily or as recommended by a healthcare practitioner which I find a bit questionable as this would exceed the tolerable upper limit.
Take a look at ACritical's link above....... it will explain all. 🤔
I have, it does not specify the dosage he was taking, whether there was an issue with the supplement containing more than its label specified (hopefully it will tested), or whether he had pre-existing conditions that might also have contributed (reduced kidney function etc). Hopefully more details will emerge.
This is all the jury stated.
I would have thought his heart conditions were pre-existing 'long' before his death.........
Ante-mortem test revealed Vitamin D levels at 380 (the maximum level recordable by the laboratory).
A post mortem identified the cause of death to be:
1 a) Congestive cardiac failure and acute on chronic kidney failure
b) Hypercalacaemia
c) Vitamin D toxicity
2. Ischaemic Heart Disease
David Mitchener had been taking vitamin supplements for at least the preceding 9 months, purchased from NaturePlusUK.
There are formulation errors and there are formulation errors.
A cautionary case study from 2004:
"A 58-year-old woman with diabetes mellitus and rheumatoid arthritis began taking a dietary supplement called Solutions IE Ageless Formula II on January 12, 2004. Fatigue, constipation, back pain, forgetfulness, nausea, and vomiting soon developed."
...
"On March 19, 2004, while still hospitalized, she was informed by the product distributor of an error in product formulation such that 188,640 IU of vitamin D3 had been added to the daily serving size of six capsules instead of the intended 400 IU."
nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/N...
How you accidentally formulate a supplement with 188,640IU instead of the intended 400IU is... mind blowingly to me in in terms of its level of incompetence. I sincerely hope those responsible were held accountable.
I wonder if this will turn out to be a similar case.
That is just crazy Technoid! such a gross "accident" is clearly negligence and/or criminal even.
Rexz
Awful. To be honest, it makes me think I should get a precautionary blood test, just in case I'm being spiked by something 😁. There is no such thing as preventive healthcare here, no yearly checkups or anything, once you leave the surgery you might as well be dead for all the doctors here would care. They react only. And usually their reaction is laughter, misdiagnosis or a refusal to test or treat anything. Useless.
A recent presentation on Vitamin D in critical illness
m.youtube.com/watch?v=k-3O4...
Love it Technoid
This was very informative! Thank you.
Only thing is they pronounce vitamin funny. 😜 Just teaz'n
Rexz
🤣
If you liked that, the podcast I linked above is similar but even more in-depth:
B12 and Vit D deficency. What else should I take?
Those who take the injections, do they take the supplements also?
B12, Ferritin, Vit D won't go up
Vit d and b12 results help needed
