B12 and ECG

[helvella]

Has anyone ever had a B12 injection while hooked up to a full 12-lead (or whatever) ECG machine?

Did it cause any detectable changes that seems directly due to the B12?

[jade_s]

Interesting question. I'll have to check by fitbit next time I inject. I think it lowers my HR but never had an ECG while doing one. Also over time it has prevented 'spikes' during activity. I can exercise without going above 150. Folate also lowers it but over a period of a few weeks.

Don't apple watches record a simplified pattern ? Would that give you the info you need?

[jade_s in reply to jade_s]

The last few times my HR has dropped by 2-3 beats per minute immediately after injecting.... but not sure if this always happens. I'm having some issues with thyroid meds at the moment so I wouldn't take this as gospel. Wish I had an apple watch! I can ask my relative who injects and has one.

[Star13]

Next time I do my B12 I’ll set my Apple Watch to do an ECG. Can’t think that any other situation would have this happen. Why do you ask?

[helvella in reply to Star13]

A very simple thought. If B12 directly and obviously affects an ECG, then it could be very helpful in several facets of diagnosis.

1) If it only has an impact on ECG when someone is low in B12, then a single B12 injection could categorically demonstrate someone was low in B12. And subsequent injections which do not show that might indicate repletion.

2) If it affects anyone whenever they have a B12 injection, look to whether oral (or other non-injection route) has the same effect - albeit likely less pronounced. If so, it might demonstrate whether B12 can, or cannot, be absorbed by the individual in the specific form used.

3) It might provide a tiny bit of a hint as to why some need such frequent injections while others don't.

And I'm sure there are many other possibilities once the initial question has been answered.

My own ECG is so wayward that, at least via an Apple Watch rather than 12 lead, it couldn't demonstrate anything even if I were to have a B12 injection!

It was this post by Sneedle healthunlocked.com/pasoc/po... that triggered something in my mind.

[Thrones12]

yesterday I had to do my shot so I took my boxes off wardrobe shelf had my towel laid out on bed and sat down and started to take out my needles etc to prep for shot. I glanced at my apple watch and my heart rate had shot up to 98 I proceeded to do my shot and made a complete balls of it and had to stop. My usual heart rate is 59 resting and varies between 68 and 78 when pottering around.. I personally think that the b12 shots help to keep my bp at good levels but knowing how much I hate and dread shots it prob always shoots up.

I don’t know how to do an ecg on my watch yet I’m still playing around with getting to know it,too much info is too challenging for me just now so I just take my time mastering new processes or I get over stressed. Best wishes all x

[helvella in reply to Thrones12]

Yes - am very aware of the effect of anxiety, stress, etc.

Has taken me a while to work my way round the bits of Apple Watch and the iPhone app. And it's all just about to change a lot when next release comes out (September/October I'd guess!)

[deniseinmilden]

I've got a 6-lead Kardiamobile which is very good and produces excellent, reliable results that even impressed my cardiologist.

I need to use the fingers or thumbs of both hands to take an ECG trace with it so can't inject myself at the same time.

Will "before" and "after" traces be any good to you in your quest? I can try doing that. I can do several days worth if you'd like me to?

If you want to have a "during" injection trace I can probably find someone to stick a needle in me in the interests of science but will probably only manage a one-off! 😃

If you're looking to see the effect of B12, rather than just a jab, I'd have thought back to back traces for say 5 mins after injection might be useful?

Or maybe traces taken at maybe 2 (or 5?) minute intervals for some while (2 hours?) after the jab might show changes with uptake?

To be honest I think it has absolutely no effect on my heart whatsoever - I'm used to knowing what it feels like and it doesn't react any differently to normal/whatever rhythm it's running at the time. Not even so much as an ectopic!

But then again, other than occasionally muttering if I hit a sensitive spot, I'm completely blasé about doing my jabs so stress isn't a factor with me.

Let me know if/what you'd like me to record!

[helvella in reply to deniseinmilden]

Before and after sounds a good start.

I'm really not at all sure what to expect! It simply seemed a question worth asking - in case it reveals something. I'm hoping if it has any effect, that it will be very obvious because I have no ability to interpret an ECG myself.

[EllaNore]

Interesting thoughts Hellvella. I have a Samsung Watch 4 and I just did a 20 minute set of tests. I sat quietly at the edge of my bed and took an ECG before I injected. then again every 2 minutes or so afterward. this is what happened. the rise to 78 in the heart rate was because I sneezed. LOL interesting to see what that did. I injected into my thigh.

7am - 64 bpm before injection

7:04 - 63

7:05 - 67

7:07 - 68

7:08 - 75

7:09 - 67

7:10 - 78 sneeze 😮‍💨😏

7:11 - 76

7:12 - 73

7:13 - 74

7:14 - 69

7:15 - 72

7:17 - 68

7:18 - 69

7:31 - 69

I can't really see anything. My resting heart rate often goes down to 48 even as low as 43. I asked my doctor why and they said because I sleep very well, in a deep sleep. LOLOL NOT!! I sleep less than 5 hours a night, usually between 2 and 5 hours, and my sleep is not deep or restful, especially according to my watch. My deep sleep and REM is very short.

I don't actually feel anything after I inject. It stings pretty good going in sometimes but other than that, I don't feel anything afterward. No burst of energy or tiredness. I inject 1ml daily.

Hope that info is useful.

I asked my doctor once if I could be hooked up to a heart monitor while I bent over forward as I get out of breath instantly and my legs shake and I feel like my legs will give out. Not every time. but quite often. However, this week I have done an exuberant amount of stuff. I cleaned flower beds at the city park all week, an hour or two a day. then I went camping by myself and I set up my huge tent and my hammock and did a lot of lugging around of ice chests etc. and I walked a short level trail around the camp area. Not long. But considering what I had done, i was very proud of myself. A few weeks ago I was in a flare up and I could not get catch my breath no matter how small the task. This week, I feel much better. My heart does show when I am extremely tired like two weeks ago. I couldn't regulate my heart or my breathing and my energy was very low. didn't do anything different. just had a flare up I guess. Just chewing was very tiring. My jaw was weak and tired and made my neck muscles sore. sometimes my whole body just does that. I am just weak all over and my muscles seem to be very tired. Like they have no oxygen. I did have an 8lb build up of fluid so I had to take a diuretic for the first time. My feet couldn't even fit socks on and hurt something fierce. I did feel better after that fluid went away after a few days. But that flare up lasted 3 weeks and I was miserable. The next week, I pushed myself to do all that gardening and camping. I am pretty sore from all of that, but I do feel good that I was able to do it. It was very very hard work. don't get me wrong. I even cried a little but I was determined to be my old self. I will not let this ruin me. I am going to LIVE with this, Not slowly Die from it.

Anyway, I like your train of thought here. I love that we are all little scientists of our own, trying to figure this out. One of us is going to figure it out. Someday.

[helvella in reply to EllaNore]

Thank you for that very useful response. I started to reply just after this reply appeared - but technical issues with HU got in the way.

My sleep heart rate is usually around 120 to 130.

Certainly not a blindingly obvious effect for you.

[EllaNore in reply to helvella]

That's quite a difference between our two heart rates while we sleep. Yours is 120 to 130 and mine's 48 - 63. Hmmm I wonder if this is good or bad.

[helvella in reply to EllaNore]

I think it is mine that is odd!

[EllaNore in reply to helvella]

Actually yes I just ask Dr Google and it said this: For most adults, a resting heart rate should be between 60 bpm and 100 bpm. Having a high heart rate when you're not being active can be a sign of a problem. For example, having a heart rate over 120 while resting could point to an abnormal heart rhythm.

[Bellabab]

When we get scared our bodies squirts adrenaline directly into our blood stream and that causes the heart rate to rise and many other things are stimulated so that we are ready flee or fight. After a while it may well be that self injecting no longer scares us enough for this to happen. However if we get a sharp pain from injecting, as I get now and again the fight/flight reflex will be triggered. So its not the B12 thats causes it.

[helvella in reply to Bellabab]

Entirely agree that those are definite possibilities.