Life insurance/ methotrexate injections

[DoraBracken]

I need to update my life insurance policy but when I spoke to an adviser today I was told that because I inject methotrexate (rather than take it orally), this adds £20 a month to my premiums. Has anyone else been stung in this way or found an insurance company that doesn't make this strange distinction?

[AgedCrone]

No....find a specialist health insurance broker......the person you spoke to probably thinks it’s something like insulin injections that a diabetic will have to take for life, whereas a lot of people take Mtx for a while and then pass on to something else ....but I bet you wouldn’t get a £20 a month rebate would you?

[DoraBracken in reply to AgedCrone]

Thanks for getting back to me, much appreciated. I don't suppose you know how I'd find a specialist health insurer?

[AgedCrone in reply to DoraBracken]

Try Money Supermarket.com ....they give a list of all sorts of insurance. I just insured my car through a company on their referral list at 50% cheaper than my renewal notice wanted!

[DoraBracken in reply to AgedCrone]

will do, thanks a lot!

[Ninaseven]

Yes. I applied for mortgage protection insurance and because of Humira injection it was raised 20 euro a month. I live in Ireland.

[bienassis]

Hello Dora

Well, that is strange! I've never come across this in all the 22 years I've been taking methotrexate. Methotrexate is prescribed for other auto-immune diseases as well as some cancers (eg breast cancer). In the case of cancers, the dose would be way above any dose for RD - he doesn't sound very informed, your insurer. I shall probably be taking this drug for the rest of my life; it works very well. Ask your rheumatologist if she has ever come across this from other patients. There was a time when RD itself was supposed to shorten life by 10 years - perhaps he's been reading some ancient papers! But methotrexate and other DMARDs have knocked that on the head - long ago. They help to extend life rather than shorten it.

Take AC's advice, insurers are not necessarily well informed - and a specialist should have access to medical advice. But try your rheumatologist as well, she may be able to point you in the right direction. And there is always the NRAS advice line.

Good luck; don't let them bully you. Get yourself better informed than they are!

bienassis x

[DoraBracken in reply to bienassis]

Hi bienassis, thanks for your reply. Actually, I just tried to apply for life insurance through the Co-op website and as soon as I put down that I have RA, the computer said they could not offer me insurance at all. Given that it's not a life threatening, or even life shortening, disease it seems very odd. I have spoken to another insurance adviser who has been able to offer me a slightly more affordable premium, though for lower payouts. It's all to do with algorithms and tick boxes and also what providers each adviser has access to but my RA diagnosis has seriously affected my access to life insurance. As someone else pointed out above, people who inject medication often have much more serious illnesses but it seems ridiculous to price people out of the market due to a lack of understanding of their medical needs.

[bienassis]

Well, Dora, this gets more and more like Alice in Wonderland - stranger and stranger! Replying to a computer is always a nightmare - no reasoning comes into it. Travel insurance doesn't penalise RA sufferers. At least, it hasn't in the past. I haven't been abroad for some years - 2003 was the last time, but I've had the disease since 1967 and travelled a lot for many years - long and short hauls - without trouble. I started DMARDs in 1988.

But your sticking point seems to be the injections. Why, is a mystery, and it doesn't look as though anyone in the insurance business is prepared to enlighten you, because they don't know themselves.

The injections are more efficient than tablets, that's all. It all comes down to what the NRAS has been saying for a long time. This disease is poorly understood - even among medics. It's the poor relation nobody wants to know about.

The insurance ombudsman might be worth contacting - after all, you have good reason to believe your health issue is not life threatening, it is just misunderstood. And the NRAS would surely back you up. I am sure they would be interested in your trouble. So should your rheumatologist - from the medical point of view.

All this is so difficult for you; I'm so sorry you have to fight for something that should be easily obtainable. You have brought up a very good question and it does need investigating.; not brushed aside.

Let us know how you get on. And if anyone has any knowledge or help they can add, perhaps they could get in touch with you via this forum,

Best wishes, bienassis x

[DoraBracken in reply to bienassis]

It's very strange and I was surprised not to find more discussion of the issue online. The attitude of the financial adviser was 'this is what the computer says so there's no way round it' which is very frustrating. Especially since I've only been on the injections for 4 months so if I'd sorted this out a year ago I wouldn't have had any issues. I was diagnosed 5 years ago and was told last year that I was in remission - the lockdown upped my stress levels a bit and I had my first ever flare up in May which was when they switched me to injections. I might try the ombudsman and will bring it up with my consultant next time I speak to them. Thank you for your message bienassis - sorry to hear you've been living with the disease for so long and hope that you are on an even keel. x

[Poshcards]

Why, no different a dosage!! x

[bienassis]

Yes, I am also surprised about the lack of discussion. I know the actions of insurance companies baffle a lot of people; they certainly baffle me! But medical problems seem to make the companies act in a particularly irrational manner. The advice they get is totally out of date. Whoever programs the computers is not keeping abreast of medical science. And then the decision making is handed over to the wretched computer programs unable to think or discuss anything. This is true in many spheres today - we are a "tick-box" society. An Orwellian nightmare!

I was discussing this with my husband yesterday evening, and he threw up his arms saying "That is typical of the way insurance companies think - it has nothing to do with helping possible customers; they feel no need to explain themselves and, in law, they can refuse to do business with anyone without giving a reason. " My husband knows nothing more about insurance than I do - we can only judge by our own experiences.

Some while ago, I filled in a questionnaire on the computer that claimed to be able to judge my likely life span. Box-ticking, of course. The usual questions - heart, kidneys, liver, blood pressure - and also a list of diseases; I didn't tick RA. From what I remember of the results, I was going to live to a grand old age - well above average. When I repeated this nonsense, I did tick RA. The difference was quite alarming! Well, only alarming in what it told me about the reputation of RA.

My grandmother had RA, at a time when the only relief was aspirin. Her doctor also advised a glass of Guinness each day. She died in 1939 at the age of 58. I was only 4 years old at that time, but much later my mother told me of her terrible suffering over 8 years.

It does seem that something of that reputation lives on, in spite of the changes in treatment since the 1980s.

I do hope you continue to get benefit from the methotrexate in spite of the recent flare. Always bear in mind that there are many other drugs to try if one fails, and see what your specialist has to say about the attitude of the insurance company. Failing everything else, the ombudsman could help, but he does take his time.

My Very Best Wishes.

bienassis xx

[DoraBracken]

Well, I suppose we should be glad our quality of life is improved since your poor grandmother's time. In the 1920s they used to treat rheumatoid illness with high powered water hoses!Actually, I've just found a wonderful financial advisor who has got me an affordable insurance policy. He really knew his stuff and told me that as soon as you put down that you're taking methotrexate the premiums go up due to the severe side effects of taking the drug rather than the arthritis itself.

I would love to be put on one of the biologics instead but that's not easy to swing!

I'm going to try hard to keep my stress levels down but with two children and a disabled mother it can be a bit of a strain!

Warmest wishes, hope you have a lovely Christmas.

X

[bienassis]

I'm so pleased you have found someone to help you. As for the side effects of methotrexate; if they do become severe, your rheumatologist has plenty of others waiting in the wings, so don't despair. After a severe flare last year, my doctor added a "biologic" to the mix - Remsima (Infliximab). I am now reaping the benefits of these two drugs. They act together - this is quite a common procedure. You may well be introduced to biologics later but your rheumatologist will judge when it is necessary. In all the years (22) I've been taking methotrexate I have never had adverse effects. Biologics are now at the forefront of treatment, but most patients start on methotrexate - the old "gold standard" drug against which all others were measured. It is still a very useful drug as it's secondary effects are well known. Like all drugs, it won't suit everyone - but, as I have said, there are alternatives.

Yes, do try to keep stress levels down. With two small children and a disabled mother you have certainly got your work cut out! My daughter was 7 when I was diagnosed and that was enough strain. In those days one of the "treatments" was bed rest. Well, you can imagine trying that with small children! In fact, hospital bed rest was the solution, and I had three weeks of that in 1969. But still, I was lucky, I managed to get plenty of help at home - mainly from neighbours. Not something available to everyone. Strangely, the bed - rest did help enormously and, with gold injections, I had 10 years of remission.

Thank you for your Christmas wishes. You will be busy at Christmas, I'm sure, but relax as much as possible and enjoy yourself. I hope 2021 turns out well for you, your mother and the children. There will just be the two of us here for Christmas. Isabel, my daughter lives in London and we are leaving our get-together until the Spring.

I've enjoyed our little exchange of posts - and it's so nice to hear that your insurance problem has been solved.

Best Wishes , and keep well,

Bienassis x

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[DoraBracken in reply to bienassis]

Lovely to hear from you too. And for the benefit of anyone searching for help with a similar issue with insurance, this is the company that helped me: lifesearch.co.uk