I’m an analytical person and a critical thinker so I use to think that I could beat OCD with logic. OCD specialists and experts say that you can’t beat OCD with logic but I was convinced they were wrong, that somehow I was an exception to this because using logic to solve things had served me well in other things. I had to find out the hard way that I was wrong, that logic doesn’t work on OCD because there will always be another “what if”. It doesn’t matter how tiny the probability of the “what if” occurring is because it’s still a possibility and OCD will pounce on that. Most people with OCD understand, and least to some degree, that their OCD thinking is irrational. The associated feelings are so intense that the person often mistakes them for facts. They may realize their compulsions are irrational but do them anyway, just in case. The compulsions provide temporary relief which reinforces the obsessions. It’s OCD’s way of telling the brain the obsession must be true since you got some relief from doing the compulsion. The uncertainty and doubt come back shortly though and more obsessions and compulsions occur. It’s a never ending cycle until a person can learn to manage their OCD well, or even gain freedom from it, through values-based ERP; addressing the core fear, not jut the superficial ones; accepting uncertainty and realizing they are capable of dealing with distressing things. Acceptance doesn’t equal approval. It’s important to maintain an ERP lifestyle after you’ve overcome OCD. Using logic on OCD can be a form of self-reassurance, a mental compulsion.
Logic doesn’t work on OCD: I’m an... - My OCD Community
Logic doesn’t work on OCD
Well said!
You're right when you say we can't outlogic OCD. However, we can beat it at its own game. OCD is a doubting disease, but what's stopping us from doubting the doubting disease?
Let me explain.
Yes, it's possible that the worst could happen, and engaging in compulsions could prevent the worst from happening. You can't argue with that. Everything is possible. However, it's also possible that the worst may not happen, if it does happen, we could handle it, and engaging in compulsions may not be helpful. Why give more credibility to a set of possibilities rather than another one? My guess is that our present state of mind is going to choose which possibilities are more credible than others.
Who is going to be more certain the ball will come to rest at a certain place in a game of roulette? Who is going to believe that wishing something hard enough will make it happen?The gambler who invested all his paycheck in the game, or the neutral onlooker?
Who is going to believe that it's still possible to find a lost sailor alive after weeks of searching? Friends and family, or the search and rescue personnel?
If we have a great desire for OCD to keep its promises, we're more likely to believe it.
Likewise with fear.
Who is going to believe more in the possibility of being harmed? The guy who takes a tour of a Scottish castle daytime with a bunch of other tourists, or the one left alone nighttime in the same castle?
The bottom line is that we need to objectively assess possibilities in order to be willing and able to live a life in line with our values, and vice versa. This is in perfect agreement with what you're saying.
People do doubt the doubting disease. Some people even doubt they have OCD. I would argue that compulsions don’t prevent a dreaded outcome from happening but they do provide temporary relief. Unfortunately, they strengthen OCD through reinforcement. It’s the darn OCD cycle. Someone with unmanaged OCD isn’t able to objectively weigh probabilities in the thing that they value which OCD is attacking. If they could, OCD wouldn’t be a problem. They can do it in other areas of their life though. They can also accept uncertainty in other areas of their lives and do so every day. Through ERP, a person faces their distressing feelings associated with their OCD instead of trying to avoid them or directly reduce them by compulsions which reinforce the obsessions which heightens the distressful feelings even more. The distressful feeling is often anxiety or fear but it may not be. Not everyone with OCD has anxiety related to it. After successful ERP, people discover that OCD lies and aren’t as likely to believe those lies if OCD decides to try to feed the person more lies. They have to face the OCD bully and do the response prevention to accept this. They also accept the tiny probability that the dreaded thing could happen and accept that uncertainty . Acceptance of uncertainty and realizing that one is capable of handling distressing things that may come up are essential to long-term recovery according to Jon Grayson, OCD expert. One of the psychological hallmarks of OCD is low distress tolerance according to Chris Pittenger, M.D., Ph.D. Two other ones are perfectionism and low tolerance for uncertainty.
OCD is part biology and part learned. The learned part is through operant and classical conditioning through the OCD cycle. Just because certain neural circuits are dysregulated in someone with OCD doesn’t mean they are doomed to suffer from OCD forever. There is heightened activity in these neural circuits when the OCD is unmanaged but MRIs show reduced activity in these same circuits after successful ERP.
I agree with what you’re saying. What I tried to say is that it seems to me that our attitude towards possibilities plays a role in OCD. For instance, if a possibility is too difficult to accept, like the possibility of having unintentionally hit a pedestrian while driving, I won’t be satisfied with normal evidence I didn’t do it. However, if I’m a careful driver but accept the possibility of making mistakes, it’s easier to be satisfied with normal evidence I didn’t hit anybody. It's also what you're saying when you state that after successful ERP, people "accept the tiny probability that the dreaded thing could happen and accept that uncertainty".
I think I understand what you’re saying and it makes sense. It sounds like another way to accept uncertainty about something we value.
I'm so aware that the fears and horrible scenarios I predict are unlikely and unrealistic, but logic be damned; it's like a bullet train with the accelerator stuck to the floor, you can't pry is loose. This is our burden and we must be here for each other. We are veterans of OCD and explaining it to non veterans is pointless; that's why I chose a therapist with OCD. Only we can share the same foxhole in this f8cking war within ourselves.
Stay strong NLP
That’s a good description of what it feels like. Working with an OCD specialist can help to get that accelerator pedal of the bullet train unstuck though. I described it to a loved one once as standing in a traffic lane of Brooklyn Blvd (very busy road with a speed limit of 40 mph which most people ignore) and a semi is rapidly approaching and looks like it’s about to hit me. Logic says the driver will stop or swerve to avoid hitting me but fear says get out of the way NOW. Fear is suppose to be a protective factor and in many situations it is but it can also set off false alarms like it does in OCD.
Agree and it took me a long time to realize this. I also have realized the theme of OCD doesn’t matter. It’s all about OCD wanting you to pay attention to it.
Yes, OCD is OCD. OCD is like someone who can change their clothes to give them a different outward appearance but they’re still the same person.
Thank you for your post. You explained what I learned from experience very well.
After having a severe OCD relapse, although I had therapy and medication, I decided to beat OCD with logic. My therapist would say OCD has become part of your way of thinking and you cannot outsmart yourself. But I didn’t listen and unfortunately I ended up finding more “what ifs”!
Nowadays even if I don’t do ERP, I try to stay away from having a discussion with my OCD which usually wins in these situations. Trying to use logic to reassure or convince OCD false alarms is indeed a mental compulsion.
Thank you for sharing your experience and wisdom. I ended up learning the hard way too instead of listening to the OCD specialist and others in my support group. The silver lining is you gained some wisdom from learning first hand why logic doesn’t work on OCD.
I love the quote from your therapist!
Me too! I especially needed to hear it today!
well said. Very good explanation. It really makes sense. Good luck with your OCD journey 😀
Wishing you the best on yours too.
I cannot agree more and wish my whole family could see this.
I don’t mind if you share the post with them if you think it may help. Just please don’t include any replies to it since this is a private group and we need to respect and protect everyone’s privacy.
also- how do I get to the point where I don’t use logic. One of my most recent obsessions has me convinced that since my ex husband is going bankrupt somehow I will have to also even though we are no longer on any accounts together. The possibility of someone missing something though scares me to death. My therapist keeps telling me that I have to accept one of my worst fears- getting in trouble which in this case is being forced to go bankrupt since he is- could possibly happen. That’s it’s not probable but it is possible. HOW THE HELL DO I SAY TO MYSELF THAT GOING BANKRUPT is a possibility when the thought of it happening makes me want to die. If I accept the possibility it’s like saying it could happen and I just cannot do that. It takes me to places that I don’t want to be.
I’m hoping your therapist is an OCD specialist. An OCD specialist would be the one to answer this question. Accepting uncertainty in an area that we value isn’t easy but it can be done. Just remember that acceptance doesn’t equal approval. It may not feel like it right now but you are capable of getting through distressing things, even bankruptcy, by taking one small, manageable step at a time. I personally like what Jon Grayson, OCD expert, has to say on this topic. The IOCDF has the livestreams on most Wednesdays on several different platforms where you can ask experts questions. These are Ask the Experts and Lunch and Learn. They are recorded for later viewing and you can pre-submit questions ahead of time. To learn more go to iocdf.org, click on Recovery and Support, then Livestreams.
Possibilities are there whether we accept them or not, even improbable ones. Our thinking can spiral down the rabbit hole of “what ifs” and then our feelings can become intensely distressful over something that may or may not happen. I believe you are more capable of dealing with this than you believe yourself to be currently. It’s amazing what we can do when push comes to shove. Maybe you would find a financial advisor to be helpful if needed?
She is an ocd specialist. Her advice is to always sit in the discomfort of the possibility of the bad thing happening.
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