Epididymo-orchitis: Hi, I've just joined... - Men's Health Forum

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Epididymo-orchitis

Hi, I've just joined the forum after being diagnosed with EO. I've been prescribed a 14-day course of anti-biotics and will be referred to a urologist for an underlying urinary tract infection that hasn't cleared with previous anti-biotics. This is all new to me, after good health previously, and I was wondering whether any reader has had EO and how it was managed and the eventual outcome. Cheers in advance.

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Hi No not had it but did a read up and found this link, long winded but helpful.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

NOWHARD

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I've got prostatitis - which was brought on my antibiotics, and beer drinking I believe. You've got to be really careful with antibiotics, they kill your good intestinal bacteria and open the way for nasty fungal infections. Repeated courses of antibiotics which don't work can in fact do you serious harm

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Cheers for responding. Hope you recover from the prostatitis.

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Thanks, if I do it will be a long job - I'm hoping that it will burn itself out like MrMac99's did - although it's been a year now; so it seems chronic.

Reason I replied to your topic is that I have been told - by an American expert and a functional medical doctor here - that my chronic prostatitis is "iatrogenic" ie caused by doctors - anti-biotic prescriptions. So I'd say be very careful - even small doses of drugs like doxycycline and erythromycin can spark long term misery - and the medical profession will deny all knowledge

Hope you get better soon

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Thanks for your comments. I've been trying to reach a middle ground about use of anti-biotics; there is information out there -eg never take them just use 'natural' remedies such as eating raw garlic daily- that suggests avoiding them, but at the other end of the spectrum there is the 'dr knows best' school of thought aka 'suck it up and take the medicine'. Hard as it is, it's a challenge for me to be patient and really tune into my body, allowing that to be my best guide. I am also using 'positive bacteria', such as kombucha and kefir, in an attempt to mitigate the impact of abs. It's not always simple to know what works and what doesn't; we are all unique. Thanks again.

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Hi Man, last year I had several months of recurring UTI with epididymitis these are both very painful conditions the antibiotics should help relieve the condition it is important that you take the full course of tablets, but it may return I found that was the case with me. I was referred to the urologist as well and had several tests done but where inconclusive. I believe I had prostatitis which was causing the infection to return after several courses of antibiotics it eventually burnt itself out I haven't had any symptoms for several months now.

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Cheers for responding; my situation sounds quite similar to the one you had. If you don't mind sharing what if anything would you have done differently to manage the health problems?

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Hi Man, that's no problem. I don't think there was anything that I would have done differently once I was on the right antibiotic things did improve for me. but it would come back on and off but not as bad. I remember I drank a lot of water around that time to try and keep flushing it out I think that it did help. antibiotics are not great to be taking but sometimes you have to, I did take the probiotics afterwards to try and help my system. I had it for 10 months it would come and go but eventually it faded away. I think in my case I develop prostatitis after having a UTI initially

I think you should go and have whatever tests are needed to rule out any underlying cause that are possibly causing your symptoms even if they are inconclusive you have to rule things out. prostatitis can be hard to diagnose I think.

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Thanks a lot for sharing your insight. Although my 'urological journey' is relatively new, the first uti presenting in early april, I've been busy implementing the drink lots of water and cranberry juice protocol -not to mention the raw garlic that my more 'alternative health' friends advocate. It's difficult to know what actually works, as I suspect positive changes take time to develop. Getting into urology and having the tests done couldn't come sooner, for me; bring on the MRI (:

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Yeah the sooner you get to the urologist the better it was 2 months for me waiting you probably will have several tests done, hopefully your symptoms will have settled by then. I remember my symptoms were quite annoying a feeling of inflammation in my urethra and perineum area and when I had the EO I couldn't lift anything heavy. And for a long time after my symptoms had settled starting off peeing was painful.

The drinking of water and cranberry juice and garlic would all be very good it can take some time for the natural alternatives to work but I'm sure they will help.

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I've got a Urological consultant's follow up next week - private appointment. I can't get an NHS appointment for another 3 months. What's driving me crazy is the inflammation of the scrotum; I've done absolutely everything - diet, CBD balm, supplements. I need some short term fix desperately; I was prescribed anti-inflammatory Naproxen but hardly took any because I've read that this can make underlying conditions worse. The Urologist I'm seeing has agreed to give me a test - semen I think - to try to determine if the underlying issue is bacterial or fungal; if the latter then it looks like high dose flucanazole might be prescribed; but that's a worry in itself, it can have seriously bad side effects; if I wasn't desperate there's no way I'd take it

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Hi haydock, yeah the Health Service can be a real pain it's amazing when you pay how quick you can get to see a consultant.

Yeah I remember the feeling I had in my scrotum when I had inflammation and it was very painful, luckily for me the antibiotics would ease the symptoms for me.

The test with the semen would be a good test to see if there is bacteria are fungal, I feel that would be the best test to have done and get it cultured to see exactly what antibiotic would work best for you.

I understand that taking antibiotics or medicines over a long period of time would not be great but sometimes you have to take these medications and in strong doses to eliminate the infections and bacteria. I would continue with the alternative medicines as well though they are very good and do have a place in the treatment.

I presume you have had all the other tests done with urine cultures ultrasounds and cystoscope and urodynamics.

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Just to add momentum to the thread, a week into my EO diagnosis, saw my GP yesterday and he advised to call Urology next week if I've not received the referral appointment by then. I can't afford to go private at the moment. The pain has gone from my EO (though the scrotum is more tender than normal), but the swelling has subsided only a little. I expressed concern to my GP about the continued use of anti-biotics and he presented a different view: that there are large numbers of patients who take them long-term without any evidence of having incurred significant harm. I'm not sure. I guess it's about risk/reward. What I am finding helpful is to try to keep my focus more on the here and now- how I am feeling day to day- otherwise I can get caught up in miserable what-ifs and catastrophising. It's a fact that life can be enjoyed with EO and a bug inside me, though it could be more enjoyable without them.

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Hi uk_bloke, glad to hear you are improving man it can be debilitating with pain and soreness. I think you have to hit the condition Hard with antibiotics. you have to weigh up the side effects of the tablets with the condition and which is worse.

Yes it is always a problem with the health system with waiting times.

Did you have a urine culture to specify what antibiotics or best for you.

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Thanks man. Yes, had the urine culture and ultimately relying on the GP's judgment on what the results mean and the type and dosage of the antibiotics- and of course my own sense, day by day, how I'm feeling.

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Yeah keep your spirits up man it can be depressing but you have to get on with it. hopefully it will resolve itself keep drinking lots that should help and hopefully you won't have to wait too long for your appointment with the urologist and maybe it will be gone by then🤞

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" I expressed concern to my GP about the continued use of anti-biotics and he presented a different view: that there are large numbers of patients who take them long-term without any evidence of having incurred significant harm."

That may be so, but if you happen to draw the short straw you can be very adversely affected - 30 years ago I was prescribed erythromycin for a skin rash I had in the groin area; this had a dreadful effect - my anus seized up, had to have 2 fissure ops and was left with a terrible burning scrotal sensation; took a long time to clear. I actually now think they'd given me a fungally infected prostate -- because a strong broad spectrum antibiotic will zap out the good bacteria and leave you wide open to nasty yeast infections

Last year I got a bad infection and - with great reluctance - started to take doxycycline thinking I could monitor it, took it for 4 days and after another week or so had to go to Accident and Emergency and having fecal impaction treatment which was a great experience - as indeed was stuck there for 11 hours - this laid the groundwork for my current prostatitis issues - I wish to god I hadn't taken it

The EU has banned/restricted a whole class of antibiotics

ema.europa.eu/en/news/fluor...

Doctors are very good at looking the other way and denying all knowledge - but what I've gathered is that ill health caused by antibiotics is pretty widespread.

If the issue is bacterial, all well and good, antibiotics may clear it - but if the underlying issue is fungal then they will make a bad situation a whole lot worse

This isn't widely accepted by the medical people as yet, clearly there would be liability issues involved - and they don't want to put their hands up

Interesting trial from Egypt reported in Euro Journal 2013. 1000 males suffering chronic prostatitis - scrotal pain etc - were treated with very high doses of the anti-fungal flucanazole, with considerable success. These people had previously been on multiple courses of antibiotics for bacterial which no doubt had made their condition worse

Food for thought

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

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Thank you for providing all this pertinent information. I'm sorry to hear the extent of your health problems previously. I will certainly now engage more sceptically with the medical support I'm offered. It would be useful to know some common sense pointers (if there are any) by which to decide whether an infection is fungal or bacterial. Thanks again man.

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Thanks for your reply - I'm very glad you've seen improvement

On the fungal/bacterial issue the US expert Dr Marjorie Crandall's packet reported the following

"Candida Prostatitis is diagnosed by culture and microscopy of prostatic fluid collected by prostate massage - the physician inserts a finger into the rectum, and exerts pressure on the infected or inflamed prostate from inside. It may be painful and carries the risk of forcing an infection into the bloodstream"

In practice urologists don't seem to do this much, it's time consuming and the results can be uncertain.

Crandall also goes on to say that semen can be ejaculated into a sterile container cup - and that "yeasts can be seen directly under the microscope".

I don't know what exactly it is the private urological consultant proposes to do next week; if it's just a urine test there's no point because I've had what was supposed to be an "extended test" via the GP and hospital before - without any result bacterial or fungal

In the case of prostatitis it apparently has been the practice for doctors just to fire off antibiotics blind in the hope of wiping out the infection - but as the vast majority of Chronic Prostatitis is of the Non Bacterial variety this won't do any good and may actually do harm.

I just want there to be some science behind the treatment - and I'm hoping I'll get some sense next week; though to be honest my hopes aren't all that high.

As far I'm concerned this definitely is a catastrophe! Quality of life - out of the window

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Thanks very much for that, Haydock. It's given me something concrete to go into my first urology appointment with, which is coming up in the next month or so. I've no medical training, not even much experience, but your hopes for your treatment seem reasonable ones to me. The very best of luck for next week.

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Hello Tennis2, sorry to hear of your nearly year-long struggle. I don't feel confident enough, based on my more recent struggle of just over 2 months, to suggest taking, or avoiding, antibiotics. What has started to help me, though, is cutting down on the amount of food I eat and making a greater effort to put higher quality fibre into it. I wasn't seriously overweight to begin with, but I now have just 2 meals a day, with no snacking apart from a piece of fruit or a handful of nuts occasionally, and have lost a lot of weight and my defecation seems more healthy. I have also tried some 'fermented' foods, such as kefir and kombucha, and these seem to be positive. I try also to think more positive thoughts and reduce or cut out toxins generally from my life wherever possible. It's a work in progress!

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Thanks, I'll see how it goes next week. I have to be properly tested(see what's on offer next week and how much it'll cost), I've picked up that British medicine seems to do far less tests than would be done in the USA in this area - I can't see that's a good approach - just firing in drugs blind and hoping for the best. I need to find out the nature of this infection if it is possible to do that

I've had the tests you mention bar urodynamics - all negative

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I don't know whether it's of any help, Haydock, but I had a quick look at the online 'good medical practice' issued by the General Medical Council and it sets out clearly and comprehensively what is required of medical doctors. I note, in particular, in paragraphs 31-34, the requirement to 'communicate effectively'. I know there is sometimes a gap between what the rules say and how they applied by the professional 'in the know', but a bit of assertiveness may be needed. I'm not suggesting that you haven't been assertive, but I remember when I was rushed into hospital, advised to undergo an appendectomy and a 'consent form' was thrust in front of me as I lay in a ward bed, trying to make sense of it all, I had to make a big effort to gather my wits and ask for an explanation of the alternatives to surgery. The young surgeon responded reasonably, but I felt afterwards that had I not asserted myself in this way I would have been whisked away to surgery which time has proved wasn't necessary.

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Hi

In your position I definitely would not take antibiotics - esp doxycycline because in my own experience that can be a disasterous thing to do. If there's no evidence of bacterial infection that seems seriously unwise to me. The overwhelming majority of men with chronic prostatitis are in the chronic pelvic pain/chronic non bacterial prostatitis category. I've read that there's a school of thought which says that there may be hidden bacteria and that antibiotics should be tried as a first resort; but that doesn't sound at all persuasive to me - I've gathered too that elevated levels of white blood cells can mean yeast infection; and taking doxycycline et al makes no sense whatsoever because it will zap out good bacteria leaving the field clear for even worse yeast infection. I have also read that antibiotics have an initial anti-inflammatory effect - therefore that might lull one into a false sense of security.

Any idea what it was that precipitated your symptoms?

"I kept having horrible sensations on the penis and white stuff etc."

Here's a case where a man was successfully threated with fluconazole after suffering for years - he had white particles in his urine

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

" My instinct is that it might be fungal since it tends to get much worse with some foods"

Have you tried being fairly rigorous in terms of anti-candida and chronic prostatitis diets?

I would recommend checking out the videos of Eric Bakker on chronic prostatitis - and also consider consulting with Dr Marjorie Crandall - the half hour phone consultation plus information pack from her costs about £50 but it is well worth the money. Both Eric Bakker and Marjorie Crandall are in doubt that antibiotics have had a disasterous effect in terms of causing yeast infections - where they differ is that Bakker believes you can get better with diet plus various supplements whereas Crandall is of the view that what is required to clear the infection is high dose antifungal fluconazole - Bakker points out that fluconazole can have bad side effects. But I think that if one can take on board both sets of their knowledge and experience one is at least taking decisions from an informed viewpoint. Crandall has a Phd in microbiology, has been a sufferer herself, and has been engaged in research, publication and treatment for the last 40 years. This is way way way above anything British medicine has to offer I'm sure.

Anyway, tomorrow I'm seeing a consultant privately to hopefully arrange tests that may give me a better picture of what's going on - whatever I do now has got to have some scientific backing

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That's terrible, it's a devil and deep blue sea situation. What level of medical opinion have you sought? Have you seen urologists?

The trouble with asking for a drug and the doctor giving it to you is that you are self diagnosing and self prescribing - even if it is yeast related Dr Crandall is of the view that taking too little fluconazole "leads to incomplete cures, frequent relapses and long term misery". She recommends v high dose 800mg/day for chronic yeast related prostatitis - which I'm far from sure about taking myself

I don't think that just having urine cultured is going to get anywhere from reading Dr Crandall's notes, she says that "testing urine collected AFTER prostate massage" is the way to diagnose; also collection of semen because "yeasts can be seen directly under the microscope"

BTW I asked Dr Crandall if the situation would ever resolve by itself - and she said "your body will fight a fungal infection" - my own previous experience bears this out, trouble is it takes several years

I'm going to see a consultant at the UK Midlands Prostate Clinic for a follow up tomorrow - and I'll put the points that Dr Crandall has shared with me and see what he says

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I had a digital rectal examination carried out by the same consultant who I'm seeing tomorrow - it wasn't too bad - he said that I didn't have a particularly enlarged prostate for a man of my age(67) and that it didn't appear to be tender.

I just take a pragmatic view - that I'd do anything to get rid of it. I'm open to the idea of prostatic massage - what puts me off is that as Dr Crandall says "it carries the risk of forcing an infection into the bloodstream" - needle biopsy would be out of the question on the same lines, in fact very much more so. I have seen at least one account - treatment in the Philippines - where after a number of massage sessions a male was apparently cured of prostatitis by repeatedly clearing out infected fluids; was pretty painful apparently - but that sounds like definite no pain no gain territory

On intercourse/masturbation I have seen it advised to ejaculate every 3 days or so; that does make a pragmatic sense - and maybe needs must; one of the symptoms is painful ejaculation - so it's worth knowing that

My symptoms

Urinary symptoms are now not as bad as they were - I'm dosing on Potassium Citrate because alkalising urine is apparently advisable - urination's now hot, rather than burning. The steam is a bit weak, but not bad. Frequency doesn't seem excessive; it can be very fizzy though; I can't hold it, when I've got to go I've got to go

Burning under and particularly the right side of the scrotum is the worst symptom; though here again it's not as bad as it was - maybe there's been some return on the thousands of pounds I've spent and the restrictive diet I've been following. But it's bad enough to very much restrict me in what I can do

Constipation's been a problem - though I've now got it down from defection 1 in 3 days to 1 in 2. Defecation is rather burning and not easy, it has to be forced a bit which I worry will cause anal fissures. It doesn't come naturally - it's like something has seized up. That's the result of an infected prostate gland. Some anal irritation/discomfort but mercifully not that much

Ejaculation - bit burning, doesn't feel quite right

Crandall's in California, don't know whether she does skype - I did a questionnaire plus a half hour consult - she charges $1 per minute; which is pretty reasonable. In the notes she sent me she specifically mentions that it is very inadvisable to take a one shot 150mg fluconazole capsule - only dent the infection a bit and build up resistance in the infection

A couple of months lying in the sun sounds good to me - we just don't get enough of it in England

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Change of diet - cutting out alcohol, caffeine, spicy, dairy - is recommended for prostatitis of course because these apparently irritate the prostate; I suppose this is just mitigation of symptoms. I've variously been on an anti-candida diet excluding yeasts, sugars, glutens for leaky gut - also because they say the anti-gout drug allopurinol may be beneficial to some men and I've had gout in the past I've tried to keep the intake of purines down. This must be related to uric acid activity - and alkalising urine is recommended - which I'm doing. And a low oxalate diet has been suggested as beneficial. The sum of this is that I don't know what the hell I should eat, I'm very confused - and I've lost at least 2 stones over the past year. My shirts now hang on me like I'm a scarecrow.

After 4 days of doxycycline my anus seized up and I had the most horrible acid feeling up the back passage - I was treated at Accident and Emergency for fecal impaction. I think that speaks for itself. I told Dr Crandall this over the phone and she said "4 days of doxycycline will do it" - and yet these conventional medical quacks will dish out doxycycline etc like sweeties without a single word of caution

We need some decent advice and proper investigations it seems to me. Obviously on the basis of my experiences I wouldn't take broad spectrum antibiotics if I was in danger of dying - and I'm not even sure I'd take them then. Your initial infection does sound like it was bacterial - maybe you could take an anti-biotic with an anti-fungal - Nystatin maybe or fluconazole - to offset the anti-bacterial antibiotic damage to the beneficial bacteria. Perhaps Dr Majorie Crandall could advise - she responded quickly to my initial inquiry and I got to speak after a few days. I think she's on a mission to challenge the medical establishment

yeastconsulting.com/

I haven't come across heliotherapy as such - I guess it's got to be beneficial, and whenever possible I'm out in the garden - handily long and secluded - soaking up the sun. I spend a lot of time indoors in front of a halogen heater because the radiation from it seems to make me more comfortable; talking stupidities though I was getting so close to it I became paranoid that I'd cooked my balls with the rays from it; it's what stress does I'm afraid

I've had this for 13 months now - turned my life to sh-t basically

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Seriously good luck with it, I think - and I've been round the houses with this - that Dr Crandall would be the best person to consult; lot of good info in the packet. I tried a functional medical doctor here, but not in the same league. With chronic prostatitis I doubt that the Eric Bakker approach - diet plus supplements - would produce the goods; of course time's a great healer but we need something to speed the process really.

I just wish I'd known that doxy was so destructive - they'll prescribe it for months on end!

I suppose that what they're saying about Amoxicillin does make sense. From my reading of what's available on line(and I don't have any scientific/medical background ) only a heavy duty antibiotic would penetrate the prostate gland and kill off the bacteria there - but the "cure" may be even worse than the disease. By the same token very high doses of fluconazole(800mg/day) were prescribed in Egypt to 1000 patients suffering from chronic prostatitis who had failed to respond to courses of antibiotics. The exercise seems to have been remarkably successful. But it apparently takes the yeast killing power of very high dose fluconazole to penetrate the prostate; low dose would be counterproductive - building up the infection's resistance for at best short term gain.

Anyway what I'm doing at this precise moment is a naughty dietary infraction - I'm having a little tot of whisky to wish us both good health in the non-too distant future

All the best!

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These are very pertinent points - I've consulted naturopaths, nutritionists, a homeopath, acupuncturists - and when I did so I always felt that I was being treated as an equal in the process - and I do feel that the dietary regime they told me about has at least moderated the symptoms.

When you see a Consultant it can be like he's on a pedestal, a demi-god and it's easy to be fobbed off

I saw a urologist privately some months ago - after a fairly cursory examination he said "the good news is that it isn't serious, the bad news is that there's no treatment" - I enquired what might have caused it and he said, "it might be some old infection, dehydration, sludge in the pipes". He said that the candida organic acid, blood and stool tests I'd had done were "rubbish" - con jobs by quack labs, he warned me off "money making scams" - which was a bit rich as he was charging me £200 for half an hour of telling me nothing - and worse patronising me. He said that I shouldn't dwell on it but should go off and play golf, go dancing, do the garden, have a drink etc to take my mind off it. All very well to say if you don't have it yourself. He said that every time he held an NHS clinic he'd fob several people off the same way, from which I concluded there's a lot of underdiagnosing out there. I left feeling seriously pissed off - and a bit cowed to be honest

Tomorrow I'm going with a list of prepared questions and highlighted information that Dr Crandall sent me

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I know what you mean about feeling 'less than' in consultation with some medical doctors. I try to be charitable, making allowance for the pressures they are under (I speak only of the nhs; I can't afford to go private) and the relatively large number of patients having to be seen, but clearly there are some who need to work on their 'people skills', to put it mildly. I'm wondering whether you have access to someone you trust who could accompany you to the consultations and give you a bit of 'moral support'. I took a female friend to my last GP appointment and felt much better for it. We had agreed beforehand that she could feel free to chip in during the meeting if she heard anything that concerned her, and her observations of the meeting afterward were helpful to me. I think it's an excellent idea to have questions/points prepared, and I would encourage you to ask for a brief clear explanation of anything that you are told that you don't understand or respect- for example, the doctor who labelled as 'rubbish' the tests you had told him you had done could be asked a question such as 'could you please tell me how it is in my best interests as a patient to denigrate, without regard to my own opinion, the effort and expense I have put into the tests I told you about?' I am making these comments partly as a reminder to myself to have the confidence and wit for when I next engage with the medical professionals!

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Taking a friend/relative is a good idea - see how I go tomorrow and in the future I'll seriously consider that. Couple of the test results I showed him were from labs in the United States and Germany run by Phd's in microbiology. This is light years in advance on anything available here.

I'll admit I was taken aback by his totally dismissive attitude

It wasn't all one way traffic though

I said to the urologist

"Far as I can see your view is that a yeast infection sufferer can be afflicted at one end with an infected toe-nail or jock itch or thrush in the mouth and at the other be lying in an intensive care unit with life threatening systemic candidiasis - and there's nothing in the middle?"

To which he replied

"Yes"

There's nothing you can do with this degree of bone head arrogant complacency

The consultant I'm seeing tomorrow - who I've seen before - is more amenable and I now feel much better armed as I've got Dr Crandall notes and I can show him a couple of relevant highlighted sections

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I saw the Consultant this morning and he was very obliging - I'd taken some sheets of the info supplied by US expert Dr Majorie Crandall and highlighted a couple of passages - and he agreed immediately to the test I wanted(bacteria/fungal semen test). So I'll hopefully see if it is down to an infected prostate. I'm pleased because I've been banging my head against a brick wall for ages

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That's good news; keep us up-to-date with how you get on with the test.

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Thanks, will do

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Hi

please see my reply to uk bloke I just made

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I think you need to consult with a yeast infection specialist - if you consult Dr Crandall she will give you an initial view based on a questionnaire plus a half hour telephone call - very reasonably priced. Then when you go and see the dermatologist she can be on hand in her office to speak to the dermatologist herself over the phone. She's in California. I've come to the conclusion from this and other issues I've had that consultants dermatologists, urologists etc are so compartmentalised that sometimes they can't see the wood from the trees

Crandall believes in testing - "seem like yeast and candida balanitis" - wouldn't commend itself to her judging by the information packet she sent me and our phone conversation - in her notes she says "candida balanitis is diagnosed by collecting samples for microscopy and culture from the groove round the head of the penis and under the foreskin. Skin scrapings yield positive yeast cultures more often than swab specimens" Candida urethritis is "diagnosed by a swab culture from the opening of the urethra"

Take your point about plastering it with crème - I'm particularly wary of steroids because I know that sticking steroid crème on your scrotum can lead to the awful red scrotum syndrome, that's another story.

I went to the Consultant Urologist today and armed with Crandall's highlighted notes I actually got somewhere for a change - I'm having a semen test to try and ascertain if my prostate is infected with yeast or bacteria - I need to know.

I suspect that you too need to investigate this - after all we've both got burning under testicles - and I haven't got balanitis. She says that yeasts might enter the prostate through a variety of routes eg "reflux of infected urine into the prostatic ducts, yeasts carried inside white blood cells from infection at a distant site"

Crandall's notes say that "recurrent yeast infections on the skin are treated with both topical and systematic antifungals" - ie fluconazole; so then it seems to come down to how much, how long for.

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"I have two 150mg fluconazole pills at home that I was prescribed, I am thinking of trying one."

I'm sure that Dr Crandall would counsel against this

"Be forewarned - short-term treatment of yeast infections for only 1 day leads to incomplete cures, frequent relapses and long term misery"

This is said specifically with reference to the 150mg flucanazole pill. She is scathing about the decision of the FDA to take this off prescription and make it so freely; says that it has resulted in an epidemic of resistant fungal infections in women

I took the doxycycline for an unrelated infection - it had a catastrophic effect on me - my anus just seized up, I only took it for 4 days- it was so bad I had to go for fecal impaction treatment at the Accident and Emergency Ward. It was a major factor(together with subsequent stupid day of beer drinking with apparently tipped it all over into scrotal pain) in screwing me up with this chronic prostatitis. I told Crandall that I'd only taken doxy for 4 days and she said "that'll do it". Many years ago - 30 in fact - I had a very bad experience with erythromycin - in fact I think it gave me prostatitis back then though it was never identified . I was very reluctant to take the doxycycline last year but the doctors told me it would be ok and I thought that I could carefully monitor it day by day. I couldn't

Obviously this is my experience, and you can only speak as you find. But I say in all seriousness that rather take any more doxy I'd prefer to shoot myself in the hand or foot.

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I think the 150mg flucanazole shot has got to be a complete non-starter. Flucanazole can be highly effective and reasonably well tolerated - but the doseage has obviously got to be appropriate; the evidence from Egypt is persuasive. 1000 males who had not responded to antibiotics and alphablockers given 800mg of flucanazole for 2 weeks seeing a marked improvement in the vast majority of cases. That's a huge cohort and is impressive. If I get a positive yeast result from my semen test and the consultant will suggest what seems like an appropriate dose - he says higher shorter time/lower longer - then I will very seriously consider taking it

I've gathered that amoxy is less toxic than poxy doxy - I think I may have taken some myself for a chest infection 10 years ago - but I don't see the logic of taking an anti-bacterial antibiotic when we know that they zap out beneficial bacteria - and can either spark off a yeast infection - or make a suspected one worse.

Prescribing you cremes that have already damaged you is boneheaded - I wouldn't have a lot of confidence in such a person; it does raise the question of what kind of medical specialist is actually competent to deal with these issues; I wish I knew

I don't know exactly what kind of infection I've got - the consultant urologist I saw for follow up y'day and who I now have some confidence in didn't identify Balanitis originally but Chronic Pelvic Pain/Chronic Non Bacterial Prostatitis -so I'm hoping that the test will give me some indication of where I stand - or continue to lie down. My urinary symptoms as such are mild, the stream's not bad at all, sometimes it isn't hot. I've read somewhere that scrotal pain can be the result of localised nerve damage caused by prostatitis. At least half the symptoms are related to anal issues - constipation and difficult defecation and burning - though that seems to have eased off recently. I also get - especially when I wake up - this strange kind of spacey weird feeling in my head; so it's like the infection whatever it is has got into my bloodstream.

I had some tests done which the medical establishment tend to look down upon

Last July - organic acids urine test Great Plains Lab USA, which found a higher marker for fungal infection

Last November - Blood test which found Candida within normal range

Feb 2019 - a stool test done via a German Lab who produced what looks on the face of it to be a highly competent and credible report indicating no fungal overgrowth in the stool sample I sent in

As as a result of this I began to suspect that the nasty yeast was lurking away in my prostate gland causing urinary, scrotal and anal issues - and maybe this weirdly strange feeling I get in the mornings, when I've been lying down all night and something's festering away in my system

Anyway hope I can get some answers and you likewise!

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BTW have you tried Ibruprofen, Naproxen to try and bring the inflammation down? I haven't really, thinking of trying again - trouble is I just look through the potential side effects and it puts me right off

I have been taking Potassium Citrate to alkalise the urine which is supposed to help and Quercetin which is said to be a natural inflammatory and saw palmetto for weeks now. I can't say they've made much if any difference

Thanks for the vitamin d tip; I'll get a supplement - it's going to be the wettest June on record here apparently; hardly any sun

I had 8 acupuncture sessions before I gave up, sort of gave a bit of a temp system boost but I couldn't identify real benefit

This debacle is draining me out financially; all the other things I could have done with the money!

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I guess I'd better give the NSAIDs a miss then

I'm rather ignorant on the subject of biofilms, I shall have to look into that - and to start Vitamin D supplements. I was looking on this site site last night and somebody was totally sold on Magnesium Glycinate - a substance I'd never heard of before. It just goes to show - with the supplements it's not just about the expense. There's so many you can take you literally don't know whether you are coming or going. Your Indian experience doesn't sound good - there's a Chinese prostatitis "cure" on offer via Dr Lu - but as that costs $500 per month I'll pass on that on financial grounds alone

Potassium Citrate at least has the merit of being cheap - and it was given to the Egyptian patients to alkalise their urine. What Eric Bakker doesn't say about the Egyptian trial was that the patients were given very high dose flucanazole - he doesn't like this drug and in another video runs through its various potential harmful side effects - fair enough, nobody in their right mind would take it if they thought they didn't have to, having carefully weighed as far as possible the pros and cons. But I spent months and months on natural antifungals rotating them - oil of oregano, caprylic acid, grapefruit seed extract, garlic, other stuff as well. And it didn't seem to make obvious impact - though I am not as distressed as I was. Also with Bakker you need to be an absolute monk to follow his diet.

Bakker and Crandall agree on much, but not about how to shift it - she thinks that it can only be done in an acceptable time frame with the use of flucanazole basically. I did ask her if I might get better by myself without these drug interventions - and she replied "your body will fight a fungal injection" - which is an implied yes

So that comes back to my previous experience 30 years ago. I'd developed a sweaty rash in the groin, red and weepy - discomforting but not really a big deal. I was doing a lot of training in the gym at that stage - and I should have been more careful showering, I must have picked up some bug. Anyway I went to the GP who prescribed me 1 course of the strong broad spectrum antibiotic erythromycin - it didn't shift it - so she prescribed me another course. At that time I had had little to do with the medical "profession" and naively thought that even if they couldn't cure you then they wouldn't actively harm you. Big mistake - my anus just literally seized up, blood in the toilet pan, a terrible burning developed in the scrotum - the anal symptoms were so bad I need 2 anal fissure ops to get that right. The burning in the scrotum lasted over 2 years - it wasn't till 1992 that I started to feel reasonably ok, but after that I really needed to shower after defecation because otherwise there'd be a nasty lesser irritation on the scrotum. The worst of it was 1989-1991 - about that time the Candida syndrome was starting to become recognised - and I found a nutritionist here and a doctor in Harley St. Obviously there was nothing from conventional medicine practitioners who just looked blank. One mistake I made at the time was the intake of pots and pots of yogurt - I think that was very counterproductive - it just resulted in loose irritating stools - you can't replace your own good bacteria with a dairy product like that. Basically what had happened was that this idiotic GP had totally destroyed my good gut bacteria - and I paid a heavy price for it.

So I got no diagnosis in 1989-1991 - apart from the alternative medicine one of Candida - but as I have now been diagnosed - more or less with prostatitis - and the symptoms are much the same it seems reasonable to suppose that I had prostatitis then as I apparently have it now. And it is encouraging to know that I did get better then, though of course I was much younger

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That's Dr Lu well and truly kicked into touch then

I've got a big bag as well - and I disposed of a lot more

From what I've gleaned from the internet the more knowledgeable doctors have retreated from the previous policy of routinely going in with antibiotics - where 90% - figure I've seen - of prostatitis cases are non bacterial and yeast is an unknown but probably greatly underestimated consideration it makes no sense. Some apparently consider that the antibiotics will deal with unidentified bacteria which are the root cause; but it is obvious the risks are just too great

The lumpy white discharge definitely sounds like candida territory - I got circumcised at the age of 21; tight foreskin; before that I was experiencing white bits coming out from under. I suspect I am genetically predisposed to these issues anyway. I needed antibiotics like I needed a whole in the head

If I were in your position there's no way I'd do the 150mg fluconazole. If one were to look at it from an armchair military historian's perspective it would be like attacking a well dug in determined enemy in very well prepared positions with hopelessly inadequate forces and next to no artillery support. The result would be that the attack would stall with high loses and the enemy would roll you over with a fungal resistant counterattack. In any event it could well spoil going in with higher dose fluconazole later

I'd spend the relatively modest sum required to hire Crandall and use her as your advocate in discussion with your doctors. They wouldn't have clue what dose of fluconazole to prescribe - she's a Phd with 40 years research in the subject.

It's worked for me I think, if I hadn't had her notes suitably highlighted to show the urologist I saw on Monday I don't think there's any way in which I'd have got the fungal test I wanted.

If it comes up negative fair enough, I'll have to rethink; but I need some evidence base

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I think the reason doctors deny the Yeast Syndrome and the role of antibiotics in sparking a huge amount of ill heath is the liability issue that would immediately arise - upon them and upon the drugs industry. When antibiotics were first widely prescribed potential hazards were at least partially understood - and the anti-fungal Nystatin was prescribed to work in tandem with antibacterial antibiotics- but they stopped doing this and it's a fair question why. It's completely understandable why they wouldn't want to hold their hands up - it's human nature; it's led to a prevalent groupthink mentality where they dismiss, disparage and indeed persecute dissident opinion. I know of a functional medicine doctor here who this has happened to.

IMO antibiotics are positively dangerous where one has a proven or suspected yeast infection, I know I'm maybe be biased upon the basis of my experience but I regard them as being as helpful as the plague - broad spectrum one's at the least

Dr Crandall emerged from one of my innumerable internet searches., as I recall from the curezone forum

curezone.org/forums/am.asp?...

She's got an impressive track record and her modest fees indicate she's not in it for the money - rather she's on a mission to challenge what she regards as iniquitous self serving medical dogma. She sends out the info packet so her clients can use it to challenge and inform doctors - suited me very well. Having got that message over to the urologist on Monday I was able to have a much more productive discussion than has normally been the case. Yeast infections in the prostate are apparently difficult to test for . The urologist told me that they would "probably" show if I was on the right track, but probably is a great improvement on being patronised and fobbed off.

Thanks for the Vitamin D heads up - I've just ordered some on Amazon

I haven't done anything like enough immune system building up - my approach has really been to try and starve it out by denying it yeast and sugar - which is very difficult and needs more willpower than I possess - and to bash it over the head with antifungals. I clearly need to modify this

On a positive note for a change I had the best day I've had for many months yesterday - hardly any nasty inflammatory symptoms at all. Today hasn't started so well - but I'm going to take encouragement from this, and wishing you likewise see relief

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"Starving out yeast is a nightmare, many say that it's the right approach, I find it very hard to do."

It's well nigh impossible - one would simply starve; also I've read that deprived of carbs the yeasts will simply find other foods to feast on. I don't know what I'll do if the results of the tests show fungal infection - high dose fluconazole is potentially toxic anyway. Also the semen test is being carried out at a small private hospital lab - they might not have the expertise/equipment to identify the issue - if not there's another £300 down the drain; I am far from wealthy and all this expense is just draining me out - true I'm not able to do much else at the moment; but that makes for a miserable situation far from the retirement I'd planned.

This conversation has been helpful tennis ball - immune system building is a positive - glad you feel good too - all the best to you.

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Many thanks for the links - just watched the first and the last

I immediately picked up on the ant-inflammatory effects of sunlight/vitamin D and the brief ref to the prostate manufacturing vitamin d - I thought it was pretty ironic that the expert well sun shielded Aussie dermatologist turned out to be 87% vitamin D deficient - so much for conventional wisdom

Which part of the States do you live tennis ball? Here in the English Midlands we have had the wettest June on record. I have been instinctively getting out there when the sun shines - good spell at the end of April, but it is very frustrating. I have now got the vitamin D3 capsules so that's a start. My diet has been so restrictive - the foodstuffs contra-indicated so comprehensive that must be compromising me in and of itself.

I find my halogen bedroom fire very comforting - the radiation from it has a warming easing effect - not really sure if it's healthy at close range. I did a few sessions with a Chinese acupuncturist - she used an infra red lamp in addition to the needles, that felt beneficial at the time as well

"Yesterday seemed like a much better day then usual and today again not so good. "

I'm following a similar pattern

As you say immune system building has got to be a long job - please remember that I suffered from this 30 years ago; and that after a bad 2-3 years period I did recover; that encourages me a lot. Also that my woes were precipitated by antibiotics

While hopefully one can do things that will improve one's prospects long term it is of course equally possible to make things a great deal worse very quickly. From what you've told me and my own experience I wouldn't take antibiotics.

It will be interesting and informative I hope when my semen fungal test comes through(though here I am not convinced that the small hospital lab where it's being tested will have the expertise/equipment to this properly and I'm hoping I'm not just being palmed off - I have become v suspicious of our medical friends)

Weather forecast promises some sun - break in the clouds - in 2 hours; I'll be lapping it up

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" My reasoning is that I will only know that I'm cured the day that symptoms are gone"

That's an interesting approach - I try to avoid anything I think is going to flare it up worse - for comfort's sake but also because I feel that it is an integral part of the healing process - obviously I can't explain it, and it is - to say the least - a very inexact science. When you're in a basically crap-not so crap steady state I find it impossible to say with any accuracy what's flaring and what isn't - so I have gone by the online dietary advice, some of which has been contradictory. My diet's so restrictive now it is ridiculous - take bread, I'm not eating it - though we used to bake our own. So I'm depriving myself of all the nutrients because I don't want to feed the monster. Not a good place to be

All we can really do is hang in there. "Professionals" talk of catastrophising it - all very well to say if you're not suffering yourself; I think about it all the time - am I really a bit better than I was last year? I think so, but hand on heart I really can't say for sure.

And it's just started raining here again

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The gambling is a massive concern

I'd want a least 90% certainty of improvement and 0 long term nasty side effects

But I don't think it's even 50-50 given an established candida infection

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If they'd found evidence of bacterial infection in a urine culture that would be a fairly strong argument for taking them, but as I understand it they didn't. The approach which says that there may be an unidentified bacterial there and we're going to hit with some antibiotic or other and hope for the best just sounds inherently risky to me.

I agree totally about the camera, I didn't fancy that one little bit - and I've heard it can cause flare ups - I put that to one urologist and he said that the possibility of that happening was "limited" - no thanks

My semen test is for yeast and bacteria, so hopefully it'll be informative

Maybe he's right about the 9 months

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I don't have symptoms like you describe - I've got the inflamed irritated scrotum issue - rubbing on clothes is horrible - and the back passage - somewhat burning, difficult nasty bowel movement issue; which impacts on the front, irritated anal sphincter I think. Urination isn't too bad, stream's reasonable most the time; it's kind of nasty and frothy first thing in the morning though

I don't have any social consequences because I have largely withdrawn socially(which of course is a huge social consequence now I come to think of it) - I've got a very loving and supportive family though which is a huge plus. Social life used to revolve round pubs, drinking, conversation, meeting people - so that went by the board. I was on sick pay from last June through to December - and when that finished I really had no choice but to pack it in altogether. I used to like football matches, films, theatre, country walks, pubs - all gone. There's a bit of woodland locally I like to walk round but with your balls irritated and burning you don't feel like doing too much, same with the University of Bham Art Gallery(noted Barber Institute) too; difficult to concentrate.

How old are you if you don't mind me asking?

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It's horrible for you; I'm sorry

"burning under testicules that seems to be extremely disturbing for people who have “prostatitis”

It definitely is

If the only diagnosis you've had is candida balanitis and you haven't got an infected prostate gland then I'd have thought that a much lower dose of fluconazole over a shorter period would stand a good chance of clearing a urinary infection than is apparently necessary in the case of an infected prostate. You've got the white cells as an indicator - and maybe the semen test would be a good idea. I'd feel much more confident in taking 100mg or so of fluconazole/day for a couple of weeks(whatever's recommended) than any anti-bacterial antibiotic

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I wouldn't see having blood tested to see if the liver's ok as a problem. My worry about one or two 150mg pills would be what Crandall wrote

"While several investigators have reported that single-dose Diflucan is adequate for uncomplicated yeast infections, be forewarned: short-term treatment of yeast infections for only one day leads to incomplete cures, frequent relapses, and long-term misery."

I think I'd want a short course of daily treatment - it's not exactly clear how much; they just don't seem to have got their act together. My GP incidentally prescribed me 50mg for 14 days but I didn't take them because it was my suggestion not his and I don't like self prescribing

This is interesting - dosage requirements are not consistent though, great!

"DATA SYNTHESIS:

Fluconazole is approved for the treatment of candidal UTIs, but dosage recommendations are not consistent. An evaluation of clinical studies of fluconazole for the treatment of candidal UTI was performed.

CONCLUSIONS:

Questions remain about the optimal dosing of fluconazole, including the most appropriate dose in non-albicans species of candida as well as the optimal duration of therapy. Until further studies are performed, a fluconazole 200-mg loading dose followed by 100 mg/d for at least four days appears to be the most appropriate dose for the treatment of symptomatic candidal UTI in patients without systemic fungal infection or severe renal failure."

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/112...

Whichever though it sounds like a much better bet than an anti-bacterial antibiotic; where I reckon your suspicions and wanting to hold off were well justified

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My mum always used to say - "don't worry it may never happen" - and you're obviously worried sick about it and in that scenario one inevitably imagines worst case scenario - especially in the small hours of the night. The stress of this can't be good for you and may impede recovery. I'd do the bloods so that you can see what the situation actually is and make an informed choice on the basis of it hopefully with the doctor's co-operation about the fluconazole treatment. The info about kidney repair is highly encouraging and confidence building

As you're in the same State I'd be very inclined to get a phone consult with Crandall - cost $30 - cos she's bound to have an informed view of the dose and treatment length for candida uti.

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Yeah, I'd contact her - she'll give you a questionnaire to fill out and you can have a half hour talk on the basis of it. Take it from there

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We need some advice we can trust, otherwise we will keep going round in circles; that's unfortunately where we are. It does seem to be most definitely the case that taking antibiotics for a yeast infection is like pouring petrol on the fire

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Only you can decide tennis ball. I wish I could help - but my issues are what they are and they seem intractable - I can tell that today is going to be really shit. I really would advise contacting Crandall. The video won't play for me. Soaking up the sun is a great idea, wish I could do likewise

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Video played for me - I'd be out in the sun if there was any here; but at least I'm now on the Magnesium Glycinate and D3 supplement now; so that's something - and I am eating a lot of greens. To be honest though I find it difficult to believe that this is going to fix my prostate. Hoping my test won't take too long and something positive will come out of it. Inflammation's bad this morning

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I see a gleam of sunlight, I'm going out there!

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The day's turned to gloom, both literally and metaphorically, so I had to come in

If you feel you absolutely have to take prescription drugs I'd take the fluconazole first and see how that goes. I just would not take doxy in the known or strongly suspected presence of a yeast infection. I'd first of all have obtained specialist advice on yeast infection. I don't believe conventional medicine knows what it's doing with this

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For me it's the front lower, particularly underneath the testicles that I get the burning - and especially to the right side of the scrotum

It seems to be worse on bowel movement days, which are now 1 in 2 rather than an average of 1 in 3 as it was. The burning defecation just seems to make it worse - like it's all connected - by the prostate gland; urination isn't that bad at al.

I consider these "medicines" toxic, which is why I never use the that term for them

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btw I phoned the private hospital lab to see what the situation is with my test; they said they'd probably have the result tomorrow - I was pleased to hear that they send the sample down to their main lab in London and culture it there, which gives me more confidence in the set up

Then they tell the Consultant and he writes to me - it'll take another week to get that I suppose

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I won't know tomorrow. The Consultant's got to tell me, he uses the ordinary postal system; it's archaic - another week at the earliest

I suppose what I am looking for is a confirming diagnosis of fungal prostate infection - if they tell ne it's bacterial I'll be up shit creek without a paddle; I just can't take anti-bacterial antibiotics. If they tell me they didn't find anything I think I'll just assume their test is crap; and be back to square 1

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Should do, sick of waiting - I should have been offered this test months ago instead of having to try to puzzle it all out for myself - with no medical or scientific background whatsoever - you pay money out of taxes and through the nose for doctors - and for what much of the time? Not a fat lot

I definitely consider antibiotics toxic, what the score is with fluconazole remains to be seen

My grandson has been diagnosed with autism, hopefully not too far on the spectrum - when he was born doctors pumped him full of antibiotics; then there was MMR and other stuff in Thailand

My daughter has done a lot of research on this - and she blames all these "medicines" they gave the boy

She took him to a homeopath who gave him some treatment to de-tox him from the antibiotics and the other crap. She reckoned it worked quite well. The homeopath said that as the boy de-toxed his bowel movements would smell metallic - and they did.

He has improved, but I worry how much damage these clowns have done to him

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I mentioned sometime ago that I had had an organic acids urine test done by Great Plains Lab - sample was tested in Kansas - which detected fungal overgrowth in me

They have also found an antibiotic-yeast-autism connection and say that children with autism have responded positively to anti-fungal treatment. Too much to plough through but it's here

greatplainslaboratory.com/c...

You did well to get through life without taking antibiotics I reckon - it's the repeated courses that do the most damage; and yet still conventional medicine remains in denial. If people are suspicious then I think they have good reason to be

I would think that anti-fungals can result in a different type of toxicity. I emailed a Professor at Birmingham University and he was kind enough to reply; he said all the anti-fungal drugs had the potential to have serious side effects - and shouldn't be taken unless essential to treat a diagnosed condition. So we go round in circles because it's very difficult to get a confirmed diagnosis

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"the side effects seem 100 times worse then what you read on the anti fungal side effects. "

Totally agree, that's my impression too. There's a whole class of antibiotics that have been restricted by the EU

gov.uk/drug-safety-update/f...

They say the harmful effects are very rare, but then they would say that. My former acupuncturist was telling me that a music teacher friend of hers was reduced to such a dreadful state by one of these "medicines" he killed himself; there's a support group online for people who have been damaged by these drugs; some real horror stories.

I think I have got more a dilemma with the fluconazole than you, tennis. It's possible that relatively low doseage will hit your balanitis/urinary infection where it hurts - and hopefully clear it

But if it turns out that I have got a fungal infection of the prostate clearly demonstrated by the test then the information available says that anything under 200mg per day will barely affect the infection, and may make it stronger and resistant. So the suggested doseage is 200-400-800 mg per day. I may not at all sure that I would do that; and if they just prescribed me 50mg per day I definitely wouldn't.

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"Probably worth being monitored in these dosages"

It would be monitored but damage might have been done by then

"but at least I would know for sure it's fungal"

You would but it would have built up resistance; gotta go in with enough to do the job is my feeling

"One of the doctors prescibed me cipro,"

And then they wonder why we don't trust them further than we can throw them

I'm going to drive round to see my grandson - I'll tell you how he's doing later

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He seems to be doing pretty well all things considered - he had the results of his assessments yesterday. They've classed him as "high functioning" ie very bright and should do well in school; but he does have "deficits" - for instance anything that upsets his normal routine he's likely to throw a tantrum. Talking with my daughter she's even more contemptuous of the medical establishment than I am, she reckons there's conspiracy to keep us in a continuous state of ill health in order to keep drug company profits rolling in.

Looks like I'm going to have another poor day; sleeping's great - waking up not so. My urine seems pretty acidic that apparently that's bad for prostatitis - must remember to keep taking potassium citrate as advised by a number of people; eg Bakker. Not sure it does me much good though; nothing seems to

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Potassium citrate alkalises the urine which is said to make the environment more difficult for the fungi.

" I’m putting most of my cards on vitamin d and sunlight at the moment."

Probably for the best, I was looking through the reviews on fluconazole and it has a really bad effect on some people

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Here's an example - ok this is a small sample and maybe it's true what said about it being generally well tolerated; but it does spook me out

askapatient.com/viewrating....

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Me neither, I have no idea either - I'm just existing fairly miserably day by day. See what happens with my test

"pray and stay outside in the light"

At least you've got the sun - it's gloomy again here today - so that just leaves the vitamin D3 - not the same

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Hi tennis, good to hear from you. That's excellent news about the sunlight reducing discharges by such a high percentage - well done you!. Just as well you haven't taken the anti-bacterial anti-biotics I reckon; that would probably be like pouring petrol on the flames of the yeast infection. As you seem to have several fungal long lasting issues I too seriously doubt that one shot of fluconazole - or even two or three shots - is going to clear it up - and may just result in the infection becoming resistant and harder ultimately to eradicate. As I have suggested before I would seek advice from Dr Crandall who is an expert on yeast infections, is pretty cheap to hire and is in the same part of the world as yourself.

I am not as depressed as I was - that's down to me having 7 reasonable/good days during the 2nd half of June - and that's down to better adherence to diet I believe; which is very restrictive but there it is; if I stray off it I seem to get punished for it. Thanks for the fatty acids links - I'm pretty well into those - I'm taking omega 3 and sloshing olive oil, hemp oil - and another one I've just run out - of over my food - plus the oil in the golden linseed I take and nuts I chew. I think I'll now start taking cod liver oil as well

We've actually had some sunshine here so I've been soaking that up - burnt myself a bit too which was stupid.

I haven't had the semen test result back yet, it's just so slow - hold up's probably at Consultant stage. So I haven't taken any fluconazole yet; whether I would anyway remains a moot point

However as hope springs eternal and as I'm just about to get a nice settlement of a financial claim I've got a brand new plan - going to London to get "shockwave" treatment

v short youtube here

bing.com/videos/search?q=bt...

So you do this in conjunction with an erectile dysfunction drug and hey presto you get blood surging around down there - and driving out the infection and driving down the inflammation. Then maybe all the oils etc can take effect. Pretty neat? And there's no side effects and Cochrane's Review says that it actually works - which is more than you can say for the rest of what's on offer

So there we go - upwards and onwards

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I wouldn't take doxy if someone was to offer me $1 million to do it, not even one pill

This is what Cochrane's Review said about Shockwave

"Extracorporeal shockwave therapy: we found that extracorporeal shockwave therapy (where shock waves are passed through the skin to the prostate) causes a significant decrease in symptoms compared to a simulated procedure. These results may not be lasting after more continued treatment. This treatment may not be associated with side effects. We have no information regarding quality of life, depression or anxiety."

cochrane.org/CD012551/PROST...

That's pretty positive - and the London Clinic combines this with erectile dysfunction drugs to maximise the effect; highly promising

Dr Crandall recommends high doses for yeast infection of the prostate based apparently on the few papers that have addressed the issue - they recommend high doses because the infection has burrowed away itself into the gland and is hard to reach; just as you'd need high doses of specific antibiotics if the infection was proven to be bacterial, and you weren't allergic of course .

In your case I'd think she'd recommend a much lower dose over a couple of weeks; but I'd I have thought that you need something tailored to your condition based on the expert advice of a fungal specialist

Really glad the sunlight is doing you so much good! After a blazing day yesterday we've reverted back to cloudy UK skies unfortunately

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The London Clinic say that it is necessary to keep taking the erectile dysfunction medication otherwise the symptoms may come back. I don't think that there's been a proper clinic trial so Cochrane's comments are necessarily tentative, but by their standards what they've said is very +ve

It's right to say that my fungal symptoms - the burning in the scrotum and anal problems are internal. I am hoping that shockwave + erectile dysfunction drug can address it, so I don't have to consider high dose fluconazole, low dose isn't going to be any good to me

Something else I've just started doing is taking celery seed extract capsules. These I have found in the past to be effective for gout which is about excess of uric acid. The anti-gout drug Allopurinol is sometimes prescribed for prostatitis - so there must be a uric acid link, worth a try anyway - and celery seed extract has 0 side effects

I should get the yeast result back in a couple of days - though if it comes up negative that doesn't mean it isn't there - and let you know what it is

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"They are throwing names at things, in reality, the closest thing to reality is yeast infection of prostate or somewhere in there, simply because antifungals seem to work."

That's about the size of it really. I think I'd qualify it a little bit because I've seen a couple of papers online where it is described how a particular candida strain was identified by test then successfully treated with fluconazole; but that's about it. The Egyptian example was based on guesswork - the presence of yeast infection wasn't established by testing; they just gave these 1000 guys 800mg fluconazole for 2 weeks and seem to have achieved remarkable results. It is proof though, albeit indirect.

But overall I just don't trust the medical profession. Talking to a guy who was "treated" with 4 months of doxy and cipro and has now been left in a very poor state; that's just criminally irresponsible in my book.

I'm inclined to agree about the supplements; with prostatitis though in the Egyptian test they gave the subjects Potassium Citrate to alkalise their urine - that might do something and I started the celery seed extract which definitely worked on gout on the same basis.

What attracts me about Shockwave in addition to the good reports I've seen about it is its non-invasive nature and even more it isn't a drug with unpredictable side effects. By boosting blood supply down below it might hopefully enable self healing

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I think you said at some point that cipro's poison - it's disgusting that they can get away with it and just shrug their shoulders and deny all responsibility

"apparently doctors have no idea how to differentiate the two, unless they actually find bacteria in the urine tests, which they often don't.."

which is hard to definitively do; and prostatic massage to get fluid samples is too much trouble

A very high number of men suffer from chronic non bacterial prostatitis - the Egyptian trial shows that within this number many must be suffering from yeast infection. Apparently many of the subjects had self treated with antibiotics and so given themselves yeast infection - I doubt there's much difference in practice between self treatment and doctors giving out cipro like sweets to kids

This is what Crandall has to say about diagnosing candida balanitis

" Candida balanitis is diagnosed by collecting samples for microscopy and culture from the groove around the head (glans) of the penis (coronal sulcus), and under the foreskin (subpreputial sac). Skin scrapings yield positive yeast cultures more often than swab specimens. Microscopy results are more accurate if samples are collected by adhesive tape pressed on the skin than compared to swabbing. Direct impression of the glans on an agar surface resulted in a higher Candida recovery rate than the swab method (Lisboa et al., 2010). When balanitis persists and the cause remains unclear, a biopsy is warranted to rule out malignancy (Edwards, 1996). "

It doesn't sound like rocket science

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"These diagnostic tests of scraping I have no idea who would do that, definitely no doctors I have seen, except for the urologist who I’m sure could do that."

I've obviously been naïve -but you would think that a GP might suspect balanitis then refer to a specialist who would carry out the skin scrape tests

There's some real horror stories about cipro class drugs - "getting floxed" - shocking

Well let's hope that sunshine, shockwave, fluconazole and time being a great healer eventually gets us both over the line

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Hey Ian, not sure if you're still here... I wanted to update where I'm at.

Basically I am about to start an antibiotic (amoxicillin). I have tried everything naturally, the most benefits I have experienced in a full year has been sunlight exposure on genitals. However, although it has reduced the discharges, they are still there, and come back quickly depending on what I eat. The struggle has been too long, and many doctors had told me to try antibiotics because white blood cells were high, and based on my symptoms could be urethritis.

I feel like taking amoxicillin is the less risky, I was prescribed doxycycline several times but never took it, based on my research amoxicillin should be just as effective in many urogenital issues. I am just trying to see this as if I were having a dental procedure and you often need to take amoxicillin as precaution, so I am taking it in that frame of mind. I have read that antibiotics do resolve a large number of urogenital infections, and I feel it is a mistake for me to have waited this long, and that at this point trying amoxicillin at the minimum is necessary, to see if I notice any changes in symptoms with an antibiotic.

I have also noticed that balanitis, which is what I thought I had, can be caused by bacteria and that in that case antibiotic is the remedy. What concerns me the most is all the discharges I have had over the year and still going. Discharges, although can be present in yeast infection, seem to really make people think of bacterial infection. Also an update, I did a yeast urine test, which came back negative. I'm not sure that confirms or disproves candida balanitis, since that is mostly a skin issue. Basically, all tests show nothing, besides high white blood cells. There is an infection, so my reasoning is, I should take a course of antibiotic (I am opting for amoxicillin just to avoid any major side effects as much as possible), and should see in a few days from now if my symptoms reduce etc. I was today on a urologist website who was taking about balanoposthitis, saying that what discharge and burning urination are present, it is usually a bacterial penile infection that can be resolved with antibiotics, and with further research other websites that talk about bacterial balanitis mention amoxicillin as the one to take. In any case, to this day I am not sure what I have. What I do know is there is an infection. My reasoning is, I should take a course of antibiotic, see what happens, and if nothing changes, fluconazole.

But the fact that so many people always think of STD first, alludes to the fact that bacterial infection of some kind is likely, mostly due to the discharges. But I did not really get any resolution other than agreeing maybe trying the fluconazole might be a good idea. In any case, the point I am at now is, one year later, the burning urination discharges are still there. The last set of urine tests and doctors I saw didn't want to give me any medication at all, be it antibiotics or fluconazole, since they still can not identify bacteria. I have probably taken amoxicillin as a child a few times during dental procedure, so I'm just gonna take it thinking that so many people take them for small things and try not to think too much about it. Apparently many people take doxycycline without issue either, but I just don't feel like going straight to that option which is still considered stronger, and with stronger potential for harm. Based on my research amoxicillin should be just fine for urinary infection, it supposedly treat chlamydia, it is used for epydimitis in pediatric population etc. Based on what I’ve seen, all antibiotics really just do the same thing and are for the most part all just about as effective in nearly every respect.

Hope things are going well on your end. I am thinking of starting amoxicillin very shortly, maybe tomorrow.

Also, I have been thinking of circumcision more and more, since the only thing that has had a beneficial effect has been washing followed by sun exposure on that area. This really shows me that there is a huge link between whatever infection I have and the foreskin. They even say urinary tract infections and STD are much less likely if you are circumcised, which basically proves that most types of infections for men are related to the foreskin, something that is hard to understand. In any case, bacterial balanitis apparently can be resolved with antibiotics, no idea if that's what I have, but I have something for sure. Might be any type of bacteria, including e-coli since I caught this in public restrooms. But that's how desperate I have become, I am now seriously considering circumcision, since there is a direct link between my condition of foreskin, but it has been a nightmare and creams and cleanliness has not resolved it. So my plan now is to take amoxicillin, see if it does anything, then move on to fluconazole, and if both don't work maybe circumcision. Although I may also worry that amoxicillin was not strong enough etc. And that maybe doxycycline is what I should have taken since they prescibed me that, but anyways, I've just been overly precautious and paranoid about taking antibiotics but I think I should at least give it a try since it's been a year and it's still the same.

Also, amoxicillin is considered an alternative to doxycycline and azithromycin for chlamydia, and my symptoms very much resemble chlamydia although I have tested several times and was negative, it could be a urethritis of some kind. I have also talked to various doctors on Skype, and the majority tend to think of bacterial std based on symptoms, and generally mention doxy or azistromycin, but based on what I have found amoxicillin should be effective in those areas as well.

One young doctor, simply said: "you have high white blood cells so you have an infection, so you need to take antibiotics, weather they show up in culture or not", and if it's a yeast infection, "you'll find out later if you take the fluconazole if it works". I think he is probably right, not taking an antibiotic at this point is likely counterproductive.

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Hey snap! I'm about to embark on a 6 week course of Amoxicillin with antifungal's Nystatin,, Flucanazole - tell you more later but the semen test came up with heavy bacterial overgrowth. The anti-fungal treatment is a sort of insurance policy as suggested by Dr Crandall. The GP just gave me what I asked for as advised by Dr Crandall. It's a heavy duty and I fear risky programme, but I'm going to start tomorrow

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That's crazy, I literally got amoxicillin tonight and decided I should do a 10 days course before going forward and see if it resolved my infection. I was planning on starting tomorrow as well... Nystatin? Can you take that orally? Or do you mean fluconazole (diflucan)? I'm surprised you have bacterial overgrowth since you took the doxy, but that was a year ago, but you have an answer. I will take the amoxicillin just as a standard antibiotic to clear whatever infection is going on.

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It is a quite a coincidence, gotta go out now, tell you more later. I'm going to be taking the Nystatin mixed up in tomato juice,, and the fluconazole in oral capsule form. Nystatin against fungal overgrowth in the gut; fluconazole more widely - the diagnosis is infected prostate

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So the diagnose is a bacterial infection of the prostate... It's a long duration but makes sense since it's the prostate, and hopefully works for whatever infection is going on for me to. Ok, I will also be starting this tomorrow. I have two fluconazole pills for later on after the amoxicillin if necessary. Will see if I feel changes with the amoxicillin first. I plan on doing 7 days, but have a 10 day prescription.

What dosage are you taking for amoxicillin? I will take 500mg 3 times a day.

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Yes bacterial infection of the prostate, it is "heavy growth of Enteroccocus Faecilis" They cultured this from the semen sample - and the report says that this nasty bug is sensitive to Amoxicillian. To penetrate the prostate, if it can be done, a long course is apparently required - 500mg * 3 per day of Amoxicillin for 6 weeks. I wouldn't have even got this far if I hadn't insisted on the semen test backed up by the information Dr Crandall supplied me with,,this could have been addressed over a year ago if I hadn't encountered so many idiot doctors. The semen test was essential in finding out what the bug is and what antibiotic it is sensitive to. Urine tests got me nowhere - report says "no white blood cells seen" btw.

Because, as you know,, I have responded so badly to antibiotics in the past I wanted a supplementary plan put in place. Dr Crandall said that because of my past signs of fungal problems I should take 100mg of fluconazole every other day and one eighth of a teaspoon of Nystatin 4 times a day - in case the Amoxicillin threatened to cause a fungal flare.

It's a good plan - though whether it survives contact with the evil enemy tomorrow remains very much to be seen

Good luck with your Amoxicillin

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Yes I was a bit surprised that you will be taking antifungals as well since you now know it’s bacterial but it make sense since you have had issues in the past with antibiotics.

For me this is trial and error, I should have taken doxycycline a long time ago based on doctors recommendation, but since I have delayed taking anything for a year, I thought I’d i take amoxicillin at least I should have a bit less to worry about, and it is still suppose to be very effective for all urinary infections.

Even though they did not find bacteria in urine, the likelihood of my situation being bacterial is high. I most likely should have just taken doxycycline 10 months ago, but my paranoia and skepticism of medication brought me here. One year later, a lot of pain and suffering later, I’m coming to the conclusion I should try an antibiotic.

I still have doxycycline, if I were to not get any relief from amoxicillin, o can always take doxy afterwards. I am precautious and prefer to start with the supposedly less violent since one guy gave me Cipro as a first option, which really concerned me with this whole situation. I am still scared of starting, but I figured amoxicillin is given to everyone during dental procedures, so I’ll just pretend I’m having a dental issue and see what happens.

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Well best of luck. I'm very wary about the whole thing - I ran the doseing schedule for all the drugs and probiotics past Dr Crandall - which she approved, she did comment "that's a lot of antibiotics"; we'll see.

I wouldn't take Doxy for love nor money, nor CIPRO obviously - in Amoxy we trust, or just hope for the best

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Yea, doxy and cipro are considered big guns antibiotics, and since I haven’t taken antibiotics in maybe 15 years and that I’ve been dealing with this for one year, likely safer to start with this. Many people seem to say it is just as effective as any other antibiotic for urogenital infections, including STD etc. And when looking at bacterial Balanitis, amoxicillin is the first choice, which clearly shows that it penetrates the mucosal membrane.

In any case, my anxiety is extremely high right now before starting, but something needs to be done, clearly my body is not getting rid of what is going on. Your experience with doxy seems terrible, many seem to not have issue with it, but I will think of this a another step later on if necessary. My understanding is all antibiotics are equal in all regards, except side effects. Anyways, I have been dreading this for so long but hopefully it goes ok and can change my horrible fear of antibiotics and medication in general.

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I'm not sure I feel too well, After one pill of amoxicillin, I am have chest pains. Not really difficulty breathing just chest pains and it has been 6 hours since the first pill. I am really not sure if it's a good idea to continue, I called the local doctor who obviously said I need to get checked at the hospital, the usual kind of answer.

I'm pretty concerned, not sure how I will continue taking it, it's a pretty scary symptom.

I don't know if part of this is anxiety from taking the pills, but I also feel pretty anxious and depressed, which are side effects of antibiotics, the only thing that concerns me is that I only took one pill, and I should be taking 3 a day for at least a week. I will do my best to continue for as long as I feel is ok.

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Here's the paper about the Egyptian experience

The fluconazole dose isn't specified but a paper by Dybowski states that the doseage was 2 * 400 mg per day for 14 days - Dr Crandall refers to it

knowthecause.com/wp-content...

Here's another where a resolution of chronic prostatitis symptoms was achieved by 400 mg per day for 8 weeks

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

I'm sure the moral of the story is that if it is going to be done at all it's got to be hit hard

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