Lupus flare-ups strongly linked to specific bacterial growth in gut

[Naladog]

Hi lupies,

More research linking the gut and lupus.

Recurrent bouts of systemic lupus erythematosus, marked by the body's immune system attack of its own tissues, closely tracked with measurable upticks in growth in the gut of a certain species of bacteria.

👩‍🔬ard.bmj.com/content/early/2...

Happy reading

🦋🐺💜💚

[LalSD]

Brilliant article and thank you. Very important step. Always thought Lupus was linked to guts.

[WinterSwimmer]

There are members of our community way better qualified to understand the gist of this paper, but what I am getting from it is that the gut microbiome is inherently unstable in lupus patients and that blooms of specific bacteria are 'intertwined with' flares of lupus nephritis. Cause and effect do not seem to be clear and further research is needed.

As someone with longstanding lupus nephritis (thankfully quiet at the moment) - I would appreciate the input of someone with more knowledge of the science.

Thanks in advance!

[Hidden]

Thanks so much for posting this. It’s a relief to read that the research is starting to show what many strongly suspected some time ago.

I’ve read the article - so, is it - the inflammation response is being driven by RG (which themselves contain many genes enabling it to bloom in people with AI conditions) plus the cell membrane itself also stimulates an immune response due to the concurrent high level of IgG2 so further driving inflammation by triggering antibody production? 🤔 So, a possible trigger causing the RG to bloom could be the general dysbiosis in populations of unhelpful microbes reaching a tipping point and so then RG blooms? Need an immunologist… 🤯

I do wonder, for those of us without Nephritis but whose SLE causes gut flares - that it will also be found to be a different species of offending microbe plus general dysbiosis. In the way it has recently been mooted that Rheumatoid arthritis has a ‘signature’ set of a few inflammatory microbes.

For anyone with an interest in gut health/nutrition/emerging research, I’ve found the Zoe website and pods are useful. ✨

[WinterSwimmer in reply to Hidden]

My niece is doing a PhD in this area - and I picked her brains on this. It looks as though it is the other way around, unfortunately. At the end of the article - the researchers didn't seem able to tell whether the abundance of RG bacteria were a cause or consequence of inflammation. But if, as the article says, they compete better in an inflamed environment, then their proliferation in the gut of lupus people is more likely to be consequence than cause.

There was more in the paper than this (an attempt to look for similarities with the bacterial populations of other autoimmune syndromes) but for me that was the key take away. The 'answer' that we are all looking for is not as simple as finding a way to control RG blooms in our own gut.

[Hidden in reply to WinterSwimmer]

Thanks - handy having someone so qualified to ask/review.

I didn’t think/suggest merely controlling the bloom would be the answer as it’s a result of a whole process - plus the generalised gut dysbiosis in Lupus also has a driver somewhere. Yes, further areas for larger scale research indeed as currently they unable to clarify the actual process.

You mentioned the end of the report - I’d failed to scroll to the end 🙄. This is why I shouldn’t attempt to read/understand through the post encephalitis fog some days.

✨

Amendment:

forbes.com/sites/williamhas...

lupus.org/news/new-study-id...

Easy to digest summaries of the research added explaining the hypothesis, for clarity - for those interested.

✨

[Betty909090]

Hi All,

Important to note that an association or link with a specific gut bacterial species, RG, Ruminococcus (blautia) gnavus (RG) with a lupus flare eg the authors mention SLE/lupus nephritis with RG do not mean it is the CAUSE of the flare!👆

In all these studies links/associations are NOT necessarily cause and effect.

     WinterSwimmer puts it beautifully!👏👏❤️.

Thanks.

I’m a strict vegetarian following a low carb, low saturated fat, very high fibre, high plant and nut based protein diet.

I suffer lupus nephritis but all is ok 👍with kidney function at the minute.

Xx

[Naladog]

I am really glad to read that it has been posted on lupus UK 🙂: lupus.org/news/new-study-id...

If I may, I suggest that gastroenterologists join the club of autoimmune disease specialists and be the first to diagnose possible nutritional deficiencies and unwanted bacterial growths. To be treated first, with diet, exercise, probiotics and supplements, and then see how the diseases evolve. I believe this can only help to be healthier and also economically less consultations and medications 😄

💚🦋🐺💜