Pip appeal turned down.

[Niccigrace]

Feeling so low, a total fraud and so angry. Not sure whether I can fight anymore. I scored 6 and 4 which has gone down 2 points after asking them to re consider. I go to work four mornings a week, it’s not hard but helps me mentally. I’ve had lupus for 25 years and never claimed a thing, I’ve always tried to work but recently I’ve found it harder and harder and when I do work I use all my energy (spoons) in just doing that which means I’m left with no life. How can this be fair, why can I not get any help.? Apparently the fact that I go to work means if I can do that I am fine. I thought you could claim pip and still work a few hours a week ? Surely if that is the case then anybody who works is not entitled to pip??? 😔

[Ceri-NorthWales]

Gosh, I'm so sorry. PIP is so stressful to try and claim (going through it myself) and for them to reduce the number of points awarded after mandatory reconsideration? Makes no sense. Did they mention anything on the letter as to why? Although, from experience, their letter make no sense and they have very little grasp of written English.

Have you got a copy of the assors report? I have read in many places that a lot havea copy of the report. I do not and unsure as to how you get it.

Vent as much as you need as that is so disheartening. PIP is a non means tested beneffit, so it doesn't matter how much you have or earn and can be claimed in and out of work.

I am currenty going through manadatory reconsideration. I was awarded 0 points, despite over 100 pages of evidence which they only received and on the system 10 days before the date of the decision letter. The decision letter was dated March 20th, I received it on March 27th. CAB drafted me the mandatory reconsideration letter for me and I have been in touch with MPs in regards to this and mentioned this in the letter. I sent the MR off, first class, recorded delivery on April 16th. I got a text on May 11th to say they have received it and are re-looking at it and I should hear from them 'within 10 weeks'.

Sorry, I can't offer much advice, but I really feel for you. Hope you are as ok as you can be. Sending lots of virtual hugs 🤗💜

[Niccigrace in reply to Ceri-NorthWales]

I’m not sure if I have the full report but when I got letter back first time it just reported certain things mentioned and observation comments. Some were not true. It said they saw no evidence of anxiety or mental psychological problems even though during the interview and on tape I broke down and cried and told her that my wrists are so sore sometimes I just want to cut them off. It also said I was on no medication for such issues but I’m on fluoxetine and amatriplyn (spell ?) they had a copy of repeat prescription medications. They agreed I need help preparing food, washing, toileting but would not agree that I need help dressing?? I have erosion in wrists which is why I have problems with the things they agreed but how can they say no to needing help to do up button, zips, bra clip etc?? The stress of it all and feeling like a fraud is just horrendous .

[Ceri-NorthWales in reply to Niccigrace]

You are not fraud at all! Please do not feel like one, even though the process to get help makes you feel like you have to 'prove' how bad it is and we all mask as much as we can and 'get on with it'. We hide so much of what we go through and how much we suffer.

In terms of the mental health side of things, it really does show how bad things are. Thinking about it, I don't think they mentioned it in the decision letter, but I wouldn't talk about mental health much as it was too much, the assessor wa pushing for me to talk about how I am and what situations fo to me, but I just couldn't. My friend answered some of it for it as she knows me so well. Would be interesting to see the report on that.

I really do feel for you with bad wrists. It really does have a huge impact. Even making a sandwich or cutting meat is tricky. I have a misaligned right wrist (dominent side) that is held together by just one ligament as I have damaged/overstretched all the other ligaments following a fall 2 and a half years ago. It 'clunks out', aches a lot, pulls, grip strength gone and buttons - don't get me started! Ihave 'taught' myself to use my left wrist and hand more, but deveolped a gangylion cyst in my left wrist, so neither wrist is useful anymore and this causes huge issues.

You are on medication, so it is a lie them saying you are not on medication. How can they get away with this?

[Lisa6161]

Sorry it turned out that way for you. You do feel a fraud and the face to face interview, is so degrading. I was in a lot of pain, at my assessment. I had a "Don't give a F**K" attitude. Apologies if offended, but it's how I felt. I was surprised to get the award tho. Sorry not trying to rub it in. I was shocked tho, to find that renewing my blue badge, also requires a face to face!!! It's as If PIP assessment isn't good enough!!! Lucky cos of covid, my badge has been renewed online, without an assessment. The whole system is flawed, and your medical reports should be enough, if they are recent. Take it to the end now. You've nothing to lose. Have heard many successful outcomes, and they didn't go to court. It's a scare tactic.

[Niccigrace in reply to Lisa6161]

Thank you! Xx

[kane0102 in reply to Niccigrace]

Please take this to tribunal, I was also in your position were my point were dropped even though my medical problems had worsened 100% since my last evaluation. I recieved a phone call re: tribunal saying they were going to give me what I used to get 10 points mobility 12 care but j refused to budge. I was asked why and I explained my medical problems and also the fact of the assessor lying about a lot of things and telling me I submitted that much medical history she never had time to go through it. I was told to give her two minutes to look at my claim again and she came back with I'm going to give you everything meaning all back dated monies and full mobility and care. So please go to tribuneral over this please.

[Krazykat26]

Hi Nicci grace 🤗 I'm sorry to hear this has happened to u.. you're not alone n quite a few of us have to go through the hoops..as if lupus isn't enough to deal with!! 🤷

As I understand it you've had a face to face assessment n then got told u hadn't got enough points..your then told u can ask for mandatory reconsideration n then they write back to u with there decision about what the assessor has said..this is where u start to see major loopholes!! I'm thinking that's where u r right now.

This is the time to get legal advice through citizens/welfare rights. With the mandatory reconsideration letter theres a bit on that letter that says u have the right to appeal..n that's where you'll have to go from..take all your paperwork n speak to a lawyer who understands more than us mere mortals who haven't got a clue!?!?🤷😤

They will help u in the appeal procedure but be aware that it takes ages for it to get to appeal..the good news though is that when u win the appeal (75% of cases do) the money owed to u will be backdated so although this has caused u untold anger n frustration try to think of it as a savings scheme!! 😹

The whole system is horrendous..like some kind of assault course..n u will be made to feel like a liar etc which in turn affects mental health 😔

Do what u need to do..cry..punch a pillow..then treat yourself to something u enjoy..take deep breaths n then fight the good fight!! 🥊You will get pip just not for a year or so (yes that's how long it takes)

When u appeal with the help of citizens advice u will get all the papers from the assessment n then u will probably find out that it's the assessor who's the liar..not u..so be prepared to get angry at times during this process!!

Yes I have been there..done it..got the t-shirt..but it did make me very ill so please take care of yourself..as we all know here stress drives lupus!!

Gentle hugs heading your way 🤗🤗🌈😽😽xx

[Niccigrace in reply to Krazykat26]

Thank you so much for your kindness and help. When I received first letter my husband wrote and pointed out where their comments were wrong but we just did this on our paper/letter and bullet pointed issues does it have to be on a special form?

[Krazykat26 in reply to Niccigrace]

No not a special form..what you've done is great..keep copies of that letter that husband sent n then u can show the person in citizens advice!!

That's what happened with me..hubby wrote out my response n we sent it in 🌈😽😽xx

[Hidden]

Please never feel like a fraud. Never. I’ve been there too, twice - and it’s the most terrible feeling. I don’t work because my fatigue is too severe but DWP don’t care. Fatigue doesn’t meet the descriptors they use very well at all. It doesn’t mean it isn’t very real though as many post Covid are now finding too.

However I know people who work full time and still get PIP. There is apparently an art to knowing how to apply the descriptors properly - but unless you’ve been helping others for years professionally - most of us as chronically ill people will need help and support in navigating this process and need to be shown how to meet the descriptors enough to be successful in claiming successfully. It shouldn’t be this was but it really is.

So please give yourself time to brush yourself down mentally and if and when you’re ready to have another go then prepare yourself extra well by seeking advice from your local authority’s legal rights team.

You may not get it on further appeal now and it might be best to wait until you have more evidence and have recovered your self esteem from this awfully bruising process.

But believe me when I say that -when we have right on our side and feel confident enough to do battle again - it is possible to go from 6 points down to 2 and then back up to 15 -all in one claim. But you have to feel strong enough to cope with the whole scummy process and that takes a lot of spoons. Meanwhile take time to regather and repeat after me “I am not a fraud. I am living with a medically evidenced long term condition as best as I can”

S7🤗🌻

[Niccigrace]

Thank you so much for your kind words, just came at such a bad time, being shielded (As you probably are) and not even able to go for a walk Constantly receiving letters, texts phone calls telling you , you are high risk and then at the same time you receive a letter basically saying they don’t believe you. Bad day but so glad I didn’t bottle it up this time because the group has been so good for me today. Thanks all!

[Hidden in reply to Niccigrace]

Well keep your shielding letter safely and include a copy for DWP if you appeal again or reapply. You can’t be in the most vulnerable group and at the same time have a condition that doesn’t impact on your daily living or mobility?! You know who you are and you know that you’re not a fraud. Hold onto this fact because I suspect there will be many more people in same boat soon - but unlike you they will be starting from scratch. Next time get help from welfare rights and learn as much as you can about fitting the descriptors to the impact your Lupus has on your personal independence - particularly on bad days. Xx

[msporridge]

Sorry you are going through this, the system is designed to make people feel terrible and from that perspective it works really well. You are just short of enough points for an ward, having gone through this a few times, I can really empathize.

I recommend getting someone from citizens advice or a local welfare rights or charity to help you send in a mandatory consideration as soon as possible as there is a timeframe for all this. Also request a copy of the medical report, it helps to have this when filling in the mandatory consideration but is not essential if time is tight. It might be they will review and then award, if not its onto the next stage. fingers crossed for you x

[Niccigrace in reply to msporridge]

Thank you! This was the mandatory, l’m not Sure they even read my letter. Even for medication where I had put I use a pill box have reminders on mine and my husbands phone for methotrexate days and folic acid days and still have him call to check (pain killers - the amount of time I’m not sure if I’ve over dosed because I can’t remember when I took them) and I explained it was through cognitive issues associated with having lupus they scored me 0 points. ????

[msporridge in reply to Niccigrace]

Oh , doh. sorry the bit about it being the mandatory stage completely escaped me. Definitely get some support, to take it forward. there is an organisation called fightback that could help, not sure how it works exactly but I did read some good write ups about them.

The PIP assessors get a bonus, so I am given to understand for everyone they bounce off the books, I cant see how this helps them make good unbiased judgements. It is all based on whether you meet the criteria for each section and it all seems to be in the wording of how you describe things which is quite subjective depending on who looks at the form and very Kafkaesque IMO.

So don't take it personally, I know its hard not too, the system is designed to crush the spirit as far as I can tell (I'm ex healthcare and appalled quite honestly by what I have seen)

Good luck x

[CecilyParsley]

I am so very sorry. Did you get advice on completing the forms? PIP is very different to DLA as it gives you very little in the way of guidance. I found the site Benefits and Work invaluable. For £19.99 a year it talks you through the forms giving examples. If I can give you an example...one question asks about medication do you require any help? I was intending to answer no then I looked at their guidance. I rely on my husband to put my medication up for me as my fingers drop the tablets, I require my husband to remind me as my brain fog frequently makes me forget to take them. It also advised to include side effects, drugs that I had had a bad reaction to, drugs that did not work etc. It really helped me realise the issues I do need help with. If I am honest it was depressing. I convince myself I am coping well and the whole exercise made me realise just how much I struggle with things. I wish you the very best of luck. Don’t give up. You are entitled to help xx

[CHEZZAD68]

Hi,

If this was the mandatory reconsideration phase then you can now appeal. The majority of appeals are successful. Give yourself a couple of days then come back fighting.

It may be a good idea to ask the Citizen's Advice Bureau for advice.

You can work and get PIP, lots of people do receive it and work. Including, I imagine people who work for PIP 🤔

It must be set back but you don't have to give up. Good luck x

[Sara_A]

As if we would sit there and put ourselves thru this process and appeal it too!! Its not as if it's a fortune that's going to pay our entire monthly bills or mortgage! We are just asking for a bit of help and we are still trying and willing to work that's the thing! We arent actually giving up work we are still trying til the bitter end!

That's what I said when I re applied for my blue badge, i only work 2 6 hr shifts a wk and having my blue badge means that i can park closer to work and actually still work, as I was having to park further away and by the time I got to work I was so fatigued and drained it took too much out of me so I said it enabled me to continue working.

I think I was just lucky getting pip as I had a visit at home and the guy was really nice but I am dreading when I have to have a re assessment I dont think they with re award it esp if I have to go to a centre and they think 'you look ok'.

It's an awful process to go thru and we really wouldn't be asking for it if we weren't feeling so desperate. Its because so many other people abuse the system that we have to suffer tho sadly.