I have written on here before regarding being put into the Wrag group from long term incapacity benefit without a medical. I am in the process of writing my appeal, and I have found a site on line that should include everyone with Fibro along with other illnesses. Forgive me if people on here already know about it. It is NEW CAMPAIGN BY BLACK TRIANGLE.http//blacktrianglecampaign. Have a look, but I am going to appeal under Regulation 35-Exceptional Circumstances, as it states that .this applies if 'The claimant suffers from some specific disease or bodily or mental function,and by reason of such disease or disablement,there would be a substantial risk to the mental or physical health of any person if the claimant were found not to have limited capability for work-related activity. It has examples of letters to send along with the ESA forms and also if you are appealing. There is also a draft letter to take to your own doctor for him to sign, and it states that 'it is the first duty of any doctor is to 'do no harm'. So any-one with fibro/and other illnesses would be at physical and or mental risk. It is worth having a look at the site as I think Regulation 35 would apply to us all. What does everyone else think.?

27 Replies

  • thankyou for the information. i will have to go look at that site. to see what it says. I got taken of incapacity and on esa but I think there going to put me on job seekers as I has to fill out the forms again and go for another medical

  • Hi, thanks for the info, Im going to have a look at that site. I need all the help I can get with this atos lot,

  • Hi

    Couldn't find that info

    Any pointers?


  • I just typed on google ESA REGULATION 35 REGULATIONS and it came up with the site Campaign by Black Triangle, they have had lawyers look into Regulation 29 and 35 and it gives you a sample letter for your doctor and a sample letter to add in with your initial ESA form or your appeal. Hope this helps

  • Hi, i have found the black triangle website, but where will i find the sample letters etc, i cant find them, thanks, there are so many different pages im getting a bit confused lol, xx

  • There was a link to click on with a sample letter for your doctor to complete and a sample letter to add in with the completed ESA form or the appeal forms. I,m sure it is on the first page.I have just completed my appeal form and used there advice. The only thing is I have lost my decision letter I cannot remember where I put it so Im not sure where to return it, Going to ask on here. Have another look and gd luck

  • I tried that one, and the DWP decided there would be no harm to me either physical or mental by being placed in WRAG group, so back to square one for me :(

  • Hi,

    I tried to find example letters and form for doctor to sign but could not locate?

  • Try typing into google,ESA REGULATION 35 and it should come up with the site by Black Triangle. They have had lawyers look into the Regulation 29 and 35 and it gives you a sample letter for your doctor, and a sample letter to add in with your ESA50 form or your appeal. It also explains that the first duty of a doctor is 'to do no harm'whether or not that harm would be serious.It is worth a lo. Hope you can find it.

  • I think it is a good one though in my appeal I am relying more heavily on my mental health then the fibromyalgia. However my GP although normally helpful refused to sign the letter that black triangle had put together. If your GP will do so I am sure it could be helpful.

  • I didn't appeal and now wish I had, like you though I would have had to rely on my mental health rather than the fibro, which is stupid as they are concurrent .

    Just wanted to say I love your piccie, is it of your JR ? I have one too, tiny wee even though she'd had 4 litters of pups before coming to me. Foggy x

  • Hi yes the dog is mine. She is called Lucy, she is a rescue dog from Ireland. We think her parentage is Jack Russell/Collie. Shes larger then a normal JR. A lot of people think she is a corgi cross because she has short legs. To be honest even having her has counted against me with ATOS. Although I got her because I was advised by my mental health team that having a dog would be a good thing for me(therapeutic) giving me anothers welfare and care etc to focus on. You have to be so careful with ATOS anything can be a potential minefield. Good luck with all your going through. As for you deciding not to appeal. It is not for everyone, it is stressful and a long process. I was lucky enough to have a friend who has supported me through this and together we have built my case. I realised that far too many people are having to deal with this by themselves and it really does worry me. What will become of them. All the best foggy. xx

  • Hey, just like to say I found this site very helpful and will be checking the news on it everyday from now on. As you say colleen, the letters are only useful if the gp signs it. I know my gp does not like filling in forms from atos , dla, etc, he says its all political and nothing to do with being ill, thats fine and dandy, meanwhile his refusal to give them enough info means its very hard for me to make successful claims for any benefit.

  • Sadly because this condition effects people in so many different ways the 'exceptional circumstance' bit wouldn't apply to everyone. what may do harm to one person, another may be able to cope with, plus it depends who you get on the other end making the decision.

    Plus, like is rightly said above, if you don't have your GP on your side then you don't stand much chance.

    I think its about time that we were all treated the same and fairly. it seems a decision maker can just use their own personal judgement on our health, where as someone in one area may be kinder than one in a another area of the country. I think they need to start at the top and look at how they and who they get making the decisions and those decisions should be made more fairly and unbiased.

    sorry to rant, but it seems to me thats whats happening.

    Thanks for bringing the link too our attention though xx

  • I see where you are coming from but from my experience, if I do anything at all,then for days after I am exhausted and in severe pain.I do also have various other things going on, But its true if your doctor doesnt support you or understand what you are going through then it does make it harder to get the DWP to understand.

  • Glad you have an understanding doctor. I was with a doctors practice since I was very young and he knew everything about me and was very understanding, But I moved address and had to move Dr, and he as he didnt know me he didnt have a clue how I felt. But, I had to move address again and I am now back at my original Dr, who is more understanding. Thing is I dont go to the Dr very much as there is only so much they can do.If I was to attend the Dr I would be there nearly every day.

  • It seems the conversion process from IB to ESA is illegal due to incorrect notice, ie failing to inform claimants what will happen to them or what the new criteria is to qualify. Under the IB system where you were entitled to benefit, the ESA system may take that away without a medical assessment, none of this is explained to claimants.

    The DWP is ignoring the law that gave you IB in the first place which is still in place, a law that the DWP can't change.

    Say you refuse to comply, ie refuse to fill in the ESA/50 due to lack of information, there is not much the DWP can do about it IMO. You could keep asking questions about the law or laws they are using, what information are they supposed to supply you with for the process to be legal, should you have a medical before they put you in WRAG. What happens if I do not fill in the form, can I appeal to stay on IB

  • Im not sure, but as far as I know everyone is being take of IB . I was on longterm IB, and filled in the ESA50 form and I have now been put into the WRAG group, which is why I am appealing to be put into the support Group. Its all very worrying how we are being treated. I feel like I am begging all the time to get what I should be entitled to.

  • I am not sure either and I am no legal expert but if you remember the Poundland fiasco where jobseekers were forced to work for no pay, the high court found workfare was unlawful because people had no way of knowing the rules that applied. The DWP are now asking for a change to the law they broke in retrospect to avoid paying compensation.

    The same law must apply whenever you are not informed of the rules, there is no guide or rules to explain what types of illness or disability you should have to qualify for ESA. And if you are found unfit for work by ATOS, how does the DWP decide what group to put you in, when you are not fit for work.

    It may be worth arguing this fact with the DWP, due to insufficient or no information, you were unable to make a successful claim and should be placed in the SG.

  • Here is the link with the documents for gps

  • My friend has MH problems for a long time now and has been refusing medical help. Just over a month ago she received an ESA 50 to transfer her from IS to ESA. I've been trying to prepare her for the inevitable brown envelope for months and I've spent these last few weeks trying to persuade her to get help to complete the form but she wouldn't let me or anyone else help her with it.

    There's been a lot going on in her life over the last few years including more than a few physical health problems. She has been suicidal at times and I've been begging her to see her GP about it for more than a year and mentioned, now that she's likely to get sent for an assessment, she urgently needs to get a referral to a Psychiatrist/Psychologist & get them to write to DWP/ATOS that she a return to work is not in the interest of her health under the special circumstances criteria. Fortunately sense finally prevailed & she saw her GP last week and the Doc has said that she'd refer her as an urgent case. Her Doc was in agreement as to the special circumstances so hopefully the specialists will do likewise.

    If she gets an assessment letter I shall be making a phone call on her behalf to try and make sure that she is assessed by someone who has mental health training & not a physiotherapist!

  • many thanx for info

  • your welcome. Ive just finished filling in my gl24 form and folowed the advice. See how I get on.

  • Thanks very much for the information anything like that is a big help to us I am fortunate that I put in my appeal as I was also placed in the work related group after 2 failed medicals but i was advised by job centre to also pen a letter to the appeals place outlining my concerns and i also added a list of my medication plus the side effects alongside so i don't know if this might have helped my case,but it didn't reach appeal panel and i have now been placed in the support group but without the help of this site and all the hard work and dedication I would never have appealed so a big thank you and gentle hugs from me to you all.

  • Ive sent my appeal away today recorded delivery, so im crossing everything.. Just have to wait and see now,

  • I went for an appointment to my GP and on the way out managed to see the medical secretary. She printed off the details of the regulations and gave me a copy! I explained to her that it was important for the doctors to be aware of these regulations so she said she would circulate them. Try this with your own practice-many are unaware of their existence.

  • Thanks. Good advice.

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