Just been refused pip is it worth the time and stress of appealing.
Been awarded 6points for daily care needs and 4 points for mobility.
The gist of my report basically say that because I work 4 days a week and perform chores within my job using my hands means I have a good level of power and movement of my hands. That I am cognitive enough to drive as this takes good cognitive ability and hand movement to grasp the wheel.
Because there been no official reported accidents whilst cooking prepping meals, I'm capable.
Because I don't constantly see Dr re my condition I'm capable.
Oh and during my telephone consultation I spoke in full sentences and did not sound in pain.
The fact that sometimes I cannot get to a toilet in time is not considered an issue so does not count.
It goes on more about my driving and four days work.
It's such a disappointment and frustrating, I just don't know if I have the energy to fight the decision.
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Mystique23
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DO NOT GIVE UP. FIGHT THEM. THEY DO NOT BELIEVE ANYONE WILL FIGHT THEM. I really think you should challenge them on this. I'm sure you are on medication which helps a lot. If you were not on medication, how much of what you are actually doing, would you be doing. FIGHT them.
I'm not yet on medication for this. I'm on loads of medication for a broken hip and chronic regional pain syndrome. I recently tried a day without my Nefopam (prescribed painkillers 3 x 2 tablets a day. I tried going up stairs. I was in agony. I tried using dental floss last night. Couldn't even grip it. FIGHT them.
They don't want to give any money to anyone. YOU HAVE A NASTY HORRIBLE PAIN CONDITION AND I PERSONALLY TAKE MY HAT OFF TO YOU.
If you were not taking your meds, how would you have answered their questions.
Challenge them is what I would do.
I'm not sure if I have helped but I am rooting for you. Get in touch if I can help at all.
If it wasn't for my 10 - 12 pills a day I would not be working , they bring the pain down to a functional level so I can do things. I'm just so frustrated because the pills have side effects but without them I'd be bed bound or walking with sticks. Why do we have to fight so hard to get what we are entitled to?
I thought I would chip in and say I too was refused PIP when I first applied with a very low score. I left it for a whilst as I couldn't be fussed with the appeals process however....
The second time I applied, I did a little research and that led me into getting help on filling the form out with the team at citizens advice. Im not sure appealing will help as they are working off the info you gave them in the form and during the assessment however, DO NOT give up and accept this.
As mentioned, I reached out to citizens advice (Fibromyalgia UK also can help as Hazel above has noted) and obtained advice and assistance on filling out the form and reapplied from scratch.
The lady who helped me knew the form inside out and told me that in her opinion the forms are worded very craftily as to almost catch you out. Once I was aware on how and what I should be saying when I reapplied whilst still telling the truth about how my condition affects me, I was awarded both components at the standard rate which was about an extra £333 a month.
Please, get some help from the people mentioned, either citizens advice or Fibromyalgia UK's benefits team and get advice on how to proceed. You may still be OK appealing it and winning as appeal rates we about 80%+ the last time I checked. Again, it might be worth just reapplying with a new form and info that is done correctly as THEY want it doing.
I know its all a massive pain and a drain on the soul these forms, especially when you don't feel great and are struggling.
I hope you get sorted and if you have Fibro and are struggling, that you get the financial assistance you are entitled to.
I totally agree here the wording they use is very sneaky and I was told exactly the same thing.
I think this is very cruel I have terrible dyslexia as well as we all have brain fog days.
I feel it should be made a lot more simple for people and the thing is the forms do not cover certain conditions and each condition has different symptoms etc.
There is alot in the media about equal opportunities and within government and the world about equal opportunities but I think that the benefits system / government truly need to look at this as individual cases and maybe the applications also need changing.
Thanks for this post and yes sometimes it’s easier to reapply as a new claim but if we all do this then it means if you are entitled to extra points you then miss out on any back payments you could be awarded if you win.
The first time I applied I went to CAB but they knew nothing about fibro and how if affects you. They were so generic in completing my forms it was unreal. This time I did them myself and took 2 months to do them as it made me realise how much I had adapted things to make life easier. Thanks
The application form for PIP are not worded to try and catch the claimant out, there are no trick questions. If the claimant reads the application form and accompanying notes and look on line information about applying for PIP filling the application form is fairly straight forward. Do take a self test on the benefits and work site and see how you fair but be brutally honest with your self test assessment as any answers submitted in your application form will have to be justified at you either phone or face to face assessment.
I totally agree I had to fight in a appeal last time and I’m dreading it as I’ve just had to have the citizens advice help me do the forms as my health has changed and I’m worried the points will change.
Please don’t give up I was 1 point last time on higher rate of mobility we all need to prove we are willing to challenge these types of situations. Remember if we don’t they will keep doing it to people on the understanding we are not strong enough to fight but it’s for this reason I had to last time and they even had said I could hardly stand and was very pale.
You have all our support so let’s all please try and be strong for our fellow fibro warriors but future ones too. We are stronger all together and it’s amazing what can be changed the more we stick together.
Good luck and please keep us informed or just post if you need help xx
Appeal it for sure, my brother has Fibro and receiving pip high rate then they cut his pip down to nearly nothing without them notifying him of this. We are now in the process of appealing, I have appealed things for my son he has chronic Epilepsy and they tried to stop benefits but I appealed and won the case, its well worth you appealing don't let them get away with this if you appeal to the Independant tribunal a Judge and a Doctor will hear your case they are not from the DWP so please appeal, yes its worth it many appeals have won.
I applied and got 0 for everything I asked for the assessors paperwork to do a MR it didn’t come so I gave up too stressful at the time as I’m not a liar is this is how it made me feel. But you have points so I would fight on good luck 🤞🏻
Hello Sam988. I have just experienced a similar situation, it took DWP 6 months to inform me.
I am new to this site and finally got a diagnosis of Fibromyalgia last July after having a private consultation with a Rheumatologist after a GP refused to refer me.
I have been going to the GP asking for help with these “ strange symptoms” since 2016. It has been such a struggle.
I have also been made to feel that I am a liar, a woman of a “ certain age” “ its all in my head” “one of those things” I’m not. It’s not. It’s very real.
We all seem to have to fight this “ tick the box system”
It is unfair, stressful and exhausting and very unnecessary.
Ajay, I hope you don’t mind me asking you a couple of questions, it’s seem you are very knowledgeable regarding claiming PIP.
Just asking for some advice, once you have applied for PIP and they refuse your application, you then have 4 weeks to appeal, once you have appealed and they still refuse you what is the next stage you can take? And how long do you have to wait before you can reapply ?
I received my refusal yesterday, at my last assessment I got 7 care and 10 mobility. I had additional needs following an accident so asked for reconsideration. I got no points at all, it seems my accident cured my life long MH and physical issues I just don't think I have the energy to fight. The report says I can make a sandwich for myself so I can take nutrition and having to sit down to dress is acceptable, there is no mention of the assistance I need to carry out these tasks, no mention that I need help with stairs or to wash. They accept I have balance issues and have regular falls but as these falls don't result in medical care being required they don't count. I have severe asthma but they say I don't despite the evidence. How are people supposed to fight this system?
I was in receipt of high mobility and standard care. I applied a change of circumstances and my new award after requesting a copy of my assessment report weeks before the award notification letter was sent looked to be the same. Having a copy of my assessment report I started to prepare my MR. the HP had presumed that as I used mobility scooters and was able to drive an automatic car then it was deemed I could cope manage all the descriptors. I sent in very explicit example of what happens for each descriptor in my application so brought this to the attention of the decision maker for my MR. I typed a 10 A4 pages going into details of each of the descriptors that the HP stated that because of me using mobility scooters and driving I was capable of doing these descriptors. I listed each activity stating what I was awarded and what I should have been the minimum award at least if not more giving the reasons why and my new award was ongoing high rate both for mobility and daily living. So we have to be very proactive in our applications and give as much details and have the evidence to prove our needs when required.
Thanks for your reply, I did send all copies of evidence from consultants and doctors to them, I appealed last week in December and called them a couple of days ago asking for a response, they said appeals are taking up to 9 weeks, however, when do phone DWP it depends how qualified the other person is on the end of the line, because you get different answers. I will just have to wait and see, but I don’t hold much hope.😞
I would also suggest appealing. Ring them up and ask for a copy of the assessors answers as well that they sent to DWP. Will help you see what the DWP had to base their judgement on.
After your assessment I always advise recommend asking for a copy of the assessment report,wait about a week before requesting a copy. And on receiving it you can work out what your award may should be but you still have to wait for the official notification letter. If the report indicates that the award is a lot less than what you expected or deserve then you have several extra weeks to prepare your MR which can only be sub once you have received the official award notification letter.
I to was refused the same way as such as didn’t get enough on the points system.I appealed and although gained more points it wasn’t enough.
I then went to citizens advice who helped me fill out the forms and this wasn’t last chance but they were extremely helpful.
If I am honest I can remember being in the first assessment and embarrassed about things and really pretending I was more capable than I was .
Like asking me about how often I wash and am I ok socially?? I knew I cannot get in and out a normal bath or shower and that I need daily assistance but was embarrassed.
I also have daily inconsistency so socially I am NOT good but again was embarrassed so said that I have no problem socially.
So really the advice works helped me in the way that I had to be upfront on myself and daily needs/struggles and then finally I got my award.
I did get the lower rate of both pip and mobility and over the past 18 months/2years my condition has worsened but I feel your pain in the confidence of the system as I know want to claim for a higher rate but I am scared I loose what took me so long to get.
Some might say it’s all about the money or trying to lie through the system as I have heard this before but I had an extremely good and high paying job and I am sure like many on here would actually love to be able to go to work and be a ‘normal’ person earning your own money .
APPEAL!!! You have nothing to loose but get help with your application as how you word things is everything.
Yes I’d give my high teeth just to go back to work and not rely on benefits and I also like you did the I’m ok I can do this I don’t need help. Guess it’s just except that we are now disabled and that’s the hardest part I believe.
Yes took me a while to realise it. But when you have to fight for pip these ppl make it worse, I think they believe because you disabled you have to be clueless.
Yeah I'm the same, I just don't have the fight in me to appeal. I went to tribunal the first time and won but I had hospital staff with me then. Every thing I have done in my life to help myself counts against me. I keep thinking if i do get get awarded points something bad will happen, they make you feel like liars, I can't cope with the stress of it all and I haven't managed to work for 20 years.
Hi, I got an OT report, ask your doctor to contact OT so that OT can do a report on how you manage. Also make sure that you write about your worst days . Your doctor can help if you ask them
I m a NOT-FOR-PROFIT Welfare Rights Adviser and can definitely help you. I represent PIP claimants through the entire appeal process. My email is: Feel free to PM if you wish further information thank you.
I should also add I also have Fibro, so I have a complete understanding of how it affects people, especially in relation to claiming PIP. I have attached a image about us which is self-explanatory.
Has above. Feel free to PM if you want further information thank you. Kind Regards David.
Hi first time I applied got zero points and I thought oh and left it but I wasn’t on this site at the time and the next time I did it and got 4 points and after reading and chatting to others I reapplied and won lol I also got I was cheerier but day before I had my pip interview via phone. I’d being in hospital and got out day before. I was sitting nursing a bruised shoulder and broken ribs. Did tell lady your on phone but she said couldn’t take note of it as it happened after I filled in forms. So when I asked them to look again. I also mentioned my accident. But I won 🙌
Hi, yes it's worth appealing.. you've done the hardest part now in some ways. Unfortunately they use these silly reasons, using a car means strength in their eyes but you may still struggle opening a jar or packet for example.. It's so frustrating. The telephone consultation is a joke aswell.. the appeal is a mandatory reconsideration, so basically a letter, giving clear reasons as to why you feel they were wrong in what they said, you can give examples. Get your report if you haven't already. Of course it's your choice and only you know if you can deal with the stress of it but it's always worth doing.. goodluck either way. Xx
The same thing happened to me today, haven’t left the house alone in 5 years but they told me I had no signs of struggling with anxiety or low mood, the system is a joke
When I first applied for DLA I was awarded lower rate care only. I appealed and was awarded middle rate care and higher rate mobility.
I had to reapply after the period was up and then it was PIP. I was awarded standard rate care and mobility, I asked for MR got my report and explained against each point why errors in the report and how I met the criteria for points, and in the meantime lost my mobility car. At MR I was awarded Enhanced Mobilty but still standard care. I went to appeal and was awarded enhanced for both for 3 years.
On reviewed I was awarded enhanced for both with an ongoing award, with a light review every 10 years, so it is definitely worth fighting.
Definitely appeal! I personally believe they operate under the rule "automatically refuse 2 in 3 applications" because there's no rhyme nor reason as to why they refuse some and allow others. I was refused, in fact the assessor blatantly lied about certain aspects of the assessment (eg: I was asked to stand on one leg but could only do this whilst holding onto something to keep me from falling over. The report stated I could do it easily and unaided!). So I put an MR in but that was refused too. I immediately appealed. I was dreading the actual appeal but determined not to let them get away with this. Just before the appeal date they called me to say they'd had another look at my case and had decided I *did* qualify after all!! They offered me what I had originally thought I would have qualified for, in exchange for calling off the appeal. A CAB solicitor told me they are being fined for every appeal case that wins and have been warned that they're treading on very thin ice these days (something like 75% of all appeals win, which is telling) and that if this continues, sanctions will be put in place, along with stiffer fines. So yes, don't be put off, take it all the way if necessary!
Hi,I found that over the telephone information gets missed. When I was first diagnosed I received the standard rate for personal care even though I was working. Just because you can perform an action at work does not mean that you can get washed or dressed.
When my condition worsened I asked for a review because of my mobility, by this time I had to leave work on health grounds. I had a telephone review but felt that the assessor was not asking the right questions and because of brain fog I couldn't think quick enough to add stuff on. I was denied mobility so I wrote a letter detailing my life, you have to state everything so if you have a wash or shower every day, if you need help etc and document every task.
Once they received the letter I was contacted again to tell me that they awarded me higher for personal care and higher for mobility so yes it is worth appealing.
I haven't read all the replies in their entirety, so apologies if I'm repeating someone else. I swear by the info and guides provided (subscription required for use of guides but so worthwhile if you can possibly afford it £20 approx for 12 months access). benefitsandwork.co.uk/They explain the pitfalls and techniques in applying/appealing, point by point, what is needed to satisfy each descriptor and suggestions on phraseology, among other eye opening info. I have used the site since I originally applied for and appealed around 10 years ago and every reassessment since. I am certain I would not have been successful without their guides.
Hi I had my PIP interview over the phone Friday and found it very stressful. My Dr told me to apply so why they can't take their word as a medical professional that we need help is beyond me .
How someone can assess over a phone call is ridiculous. Take care
I don't get on here much but your post caught my eye and I have been through the pip appeal process..fight it do not give up! Easy for me to say now I know but I gave up after my first application when it was still disability living allowance and I was working as a part time nurse. My health was declining and I was adapting myself so many ways just to work 4 hr shift and went home to sleep after due to pain and exhaustion.
Please keep going the extra money will help you and you are entitled to it.
I sadly don't have much time to post much content but my assessment was full of inaccuracies I was told to stick to the point and not tell her things that she was not asking for!! I have difficulty with concentration so do wander off a bit but this is part of my health issues.
I too was told if you can drive etc you do not have struggles with grip etc..Its just part of the initial refusal..most people are refused at first.
I had help from cab who were excellent and did my appeal online with my assessment on the phone due to the pandemic.
What I will say is one of the best pieces of advice l was given was you need to show them how your conditions affect you so sometimes doctors letters are not enough but do include them just give examples to back up what each point is linked to. A letter from my consultant helped me at tribunal I think.
Have a look at the pip descriptors and how your conditions link to each one in detail, you need to be able to perform each task whenever you need to do it and in the same time it would take someone without your illhealth.
Keep a diary there are good examples online of things to include. A good website is benefits and work.
Someone close who knows how you are affected by your health issues if they can write a summary of it will help a lot.
I had a print out of my medication history which was 8 pages long!
Basically include anything that supports your case but keep going I went from 0 points to enhanced care and mobility via tribunal and although it was on the phone they were very good and listened to my issues.
Just another quick point..remember the word reliably..if you need to repeat something e.g. preparing a meal can you do it safely in time and can you repeat it later on or are you too tired or in too much pain or can't motivate yourself to do it etc..there is so much detail to put in but don't be put off, you can get help to fill in the form and it's the detail that they focus on.I used to put things in my phone if I thought of it and then had it available to include in my appeal form..cab said sometimes certain points will need to be added to different descriptors as they overlap. You will be surprised how quickly your evidence will come together once you get going.I keep mine in a folder all together as it will be invaluable for future claims. Also get copies of all evidence submitted as dwp often lose documents..
I uploaded mine to the tribunal website it was very easy as I was unable to get out to photocopy them plus I was sheilding.
I was turned down originally, then they decided I’d have lower daily living, I took them to tribunal it didn’t even get that far and I was awarded full award on all levels unconditionally for life - so is jolly well say it IS worth the appeal
When yr writing your appeal pick up in every single discrepancy in their report
Also tell them like it is on your bad days your condition is never going to get better ! Be honest don’t over egg it but do remind them bad days are bad
Citizens advice are quite good with appeals but you need to explain to them where they have it wrong with you. I’ve just gone the same with my niece too I literally had to go thru and say to them what was happening for her whilst I was trying to write the form out.
Explain your day in depth
Why things take you longer or hurt when they hurt how you need the help you need
Good luck with it all and don’t accept any rubbish from them
Also if yr unable to do things tell them straight I can’t because xyz but be honest
They need to know why you need extra help so spell it out to them - esp as your condition might vary !from person to person how it affects people
Hi Mystique so terribly sorry to hear how the DWP treated you, I too have fibromyalgia and have enhanced rate for both, I too drive, I have a dog etc etc, initially I was offered standard rate for both but then went for Mandatory Reconsideration, and then got high rate. All my knowledge came from Benefits and Work, Turn2You, and Citizens Advice, they go through all the wording with you. Good luck angel, yes it's worth fighting for, it's a shame that we have to expend what little energy we've got to fight to help us with our disabilities. Sometimes we have to remember the mantra of the DWP and throw it back at them e.g "PIP is for needs arising and not condition specific"
If you feel you haven't been awarded for descriptors you feel you meet & you have medical evidence to back up that you meet these descriptors, then I urge you to make an appeal.75% of assessments get over turned at a tribunal hearing.I too have a driving licence & a degree and both of which were used against me at my assessment to say that I wasn't severely disabled & in severe pain. The fact I can drive a car a few days a month only was ignored & the fact I got my degree 20 years ago before my condition became more disabling was ignored. Even my clothes at my assessment was criticised as being too smart and direct evidence of not being disabled or ill. This is how stupid these assessments are. So, yeah. Do launch an appeal. If you feel they've assessed you wrong, say so.
My first application got refused because I looked smart and put together and was obviously well fed ( I'm fat)It's ridiculous what they come up with to refuse the applications.
Hi Mystique23I am sorry as well to hear of your treatment by the DWP. They are almost enemy no 1 to us.
I think it is true to say that the way the form is filled in is very important. I know there are tick boxes to fill in, but you really need to explain why the box is ticked. Every detail of your difficulties need to be on that form. Even carrying on with another piece of paper with your experiences and difficulties. If you think about it, all of us can probably write an extra A4 size paper on every single descriptor. If you give them enough information, they can write your report just from your forms and extra pages, including any extra information from GPs and consultants etc.
I sent in 14 extra A4 sheets with my forms. I basically told them what my days were like and the problems I encountered every day. Admittedly my husband had just died, so I was not in a good place at that time, but I sent the forms in regardless.
After a few weeks I got a text saying my report had been done, and I would receive a letter from them very shortly. I remember looking at the text, and thinking it must be wrong. After a couple of weeks I received my award letter. I realised that I hadn't had a face to face because of all the information I put on the form and extra pages. It was not easy to complete the form and extra pages, it took about two months. (I asked for extra time to do it all).
When you are appealing, write down everything that you can think of that is interfering with your health, be honest with yourself, don't be shy or hesitant, even if it is embarrassing make them aware of the problem.
Sorry this has gone on for a while, I apologise if I have offended anyone by what I have written I hoped by writing this, maybe I could help someone. Also great information comes from Benefits and Work, I have been a paying member for a few years. They have always helped me. Its worth joining the site.
Good Luck everyone, stay safe
Jaxie
🤗 By the way, keep a copy of whatever you send. They lose stuff.
UPDATE Recieved a call today from the DWP 37 weeks after applying for PIP and being refused, I did a letter asking for a Mandatory Reconsideration and the call was to inform me that they have finished with my case and have reconsidered and are awarding me PIP. I will recieve a letter next week with the rate and the arrears amount back to last Aug.
I'm so happy right now because my fibro is so bad at the moment and it means that I don't have to do more than my contracted work hours just to stay afloat. So that means more recovery time between shifts so that will hopefully help reduce my pain.
Yes it was a pain to have to push and fight for it but omg so worth it.
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