No embryos day 5 - hope lost

[Endofitall]

I’ve been quiet on here as just getting head round the last failed cycle. Feeling really down

Came as complete shock that we had no embryos at all after having our best egg collection results ever. I had 7 eggs, 6 mature and all 6 fertilised but nothing made it to day 5. With our previous cycles had 1-4 eggs but always had good day 5 blastocyst (often 100% fertilisation and 100% to excellent/ good quality blasts).

I can’t believe my egg quality has crashed so much in 12 months. Follow all the advice and literally feel should have halo on my head I am living so clean, so nothing more can do diet and lifestyle wise. And can’t help fact I’m now 37 as this horrendous “journey” is going on for so many years. I try so hard to keep stress down and do acupuncture etc

Previously we’ve done short protocol FSH only 450iu with Ganirelix from day 5 and HCG 10,000 trigger for all 3 cycles. This time we did oestrogen priming ( which did seem to get us more even growth and more eggs) and short protocol Pergoveris (300 FSH 150 LH) and Ganirelix then double trigger HCG 5000 and buserelin. I wonder if the LH use for first time in this protocol didn’t do my egg quality any favours?

Had review yesterday and dr had literally no ideas - just said we could do the same or maybe try ICSI (which seems nonsensical as we had 100% fertilisation of mature eggs and sperm looked great on the day. We’ve already had sperm dna frag done etc). We have one more cycle with them out of package so it’s rubbish they seem to have no optimism or suggestions.

Feel so down about hopes for future now. Problem has always been recurrent implantation failure and endo. And while we’ve always struggled to get many eggs there’s been no problem having a great blastocyst for transfer or even freezing. Now there’s a whole new issue to add to the awfulness. Heading into 5th egg collection but so lost. Only thing I’ve asked is whether we just go back to the original protocol as at least that gave us good quality blasts.

Has anyone been in a position of having a cycle with no embryos to then having a better result again with your next cycle?

Thanks for reading this far if you have.

[minny_223]

I'm so sorry to hear this. It's absolutely gutting, especially when you know you are literally doing everything you can with your lifestyle, putting your heart and soul into it, only to get no embryo to transfer. It's devastating.

I feel your pain, I didn't have an embryo to transfer on my first cycle, despite all eggs fertilising. We did have a better result on our next go- and managed to make 2 good quality day 5s.

So do know that it definitely does not mean that this will happen again to you.

Thinking of you x

[Endofitall in reply to minny_223]

Thank you 🙏🏼 did you make any changes to protocol between the two cycles? X

[minny_223 in reply to Endofitall]

We changed protocols (from short to long), and changed clinics as we were not very happy where we were. I also took a 3 month course of low dose dhea which I think may have helped things.

Although the transfers were not successful, it still felt positive to get 2 blasts from having had none on our first.

Got everything crossed for success in your next cycle 🤞 xxx

[Beclp]

I have. I’ve had results from one end of the scale to the other. I am older (44)

My first cycle i got 5 eggs fertilised and 2 made it to blast. Both failed.

Second cycle i got 14 eggs out, 2 fertilised and transferred both day 3. Failed

Third cycle 6 eggs out, 4 fertilised and nothing to transfer.

I then froze 6 eggs and waited 18 months.

Then my last cycle I got 9 eggs defrosted my frozen eggs. 11 fertilised . I got 4 day 5 embryos and 1 worked. It was one from my last cycle.

Protocol was different every single time.

I have read some women don’t respond to a combo of FSH and LH but that’s something to discuss with your specialist I guess ?

My body seemed to respond better to lower doses of meds.

I know it’s really hard when you jump through a million hoops with no result at the end but you are young and I would not give up hope 💗

[Endofitall in reply to Beclp]

Thank you so much. It feels like the clinic have given up on us. They had no ideas or suggestions. I will do this cycle as it’s paid for and hope for the best and then move clinics if needed. The drs made me feel so old and at fault it really gets at your self esteem. I’m the “poor responder” with “poor egg quality” (even though that wasn’t an issue last year).

So glad you got there and thanks for giving me some hope x

[Beclp in reply to Endofitall]

Yeah the clinic makes all the difference

I will admit I changed clinics after my first cycle and even though my first cycle with my new clinic was not good, they never made me feel like I was too old or something was wrong. I actually always felt my specialist was determined as me to get a good result.

I really hope you have a good round next cycle 💫

Possibly ask to go back to the protocol that you had a better response with.

[Endofitall in reply to Beclp]

Thank you 🙏🏼 it does make such a difference to have someone supportive who appears to be trying to make this work. They have agreed to let me try the old protocol now so 🤞🏼

[Itisajourney in reply to Beclp]

Congrats - so happy story! Can you pls PM the name of your clinic pls?

[Memacha]

This journey can be so demoralising, I’m sorry you’re going through this. I had a round with no fertilisation from only 2 eggs. Next round was 12 eggs! Unfortunately only 2 blasts and neither worked but I think the higher numbers were due to more time on dhea. Round after 7 eggs and 4 blasts. Cycles can be random so don’t count yourself out yet x

[Hopeful_88]

Hi Endofitall , I am so sorry to read this. It's hard to deal with, especially when you are trying so hard.

I have had quite variable results from my 2 cycles.

My 1st IVF cycle in the UK was using the long protocol - the clinic did both IVF and ICSI (ICSI with 4 eggs, IVF did not work) and we got all 4 ICSI embryos to day 5. I was delighted to get a 100% conversion rate.

For my 2nd IVF round (different clinic) I was on the short protocol. I also had oestrogen priming and used ganirelix (rekovelle for stims). From 7 embryos, 2 made it to day 5 - around 30% conversion rate. I was sad and shocked that the embryos struggled to develop and were dropping off by the day, as I was expecting good results based on my 1st cycle. I do not know the exact reason, but for me it seems the long protocol yielded better results. I am wondering if that could be the case for you too, maybe you could request the long protocol for your next round?

Wishing you luck x

[Endofitall in reply to Hopeful_88]

Thank you! Did you have normal or low AMH? I think it might be something we try but I am nervous about long protocol due to low AMH and poor response. I think I need someone clever to do some individualised protocol that uses some down reg but that won’t over suppress my already sleepy ovaries. X

[Hopeful_88 in reply to Endofitall]

Good point about the AMH - hopefully another clinic might look into your specific background as I feel like they don't always consider that. I think my AMH is around normal for my age - though saying that, on both my IVF cycles (long and short) I've needed additional days on the stims and also the dose of stims increasing - they can definitely do that if you were to take a bit longer to respond like me!

Also (and I don't know much about it) but have you thought of trying natural IVF? As you usually get a good quality day 5 blastocyst it might be worth a look or asking the clinic whether it would be suitable for you X

[Endofitall in reply to Hopeful_88]

Thanks so much for sharing. I definitely will ask about this if we have to go to a new clinic x

[Hopeful_88 in reply to Endofitall]

No problem at all lovely, wishing you all the luck in the world for your next round X

[Peony85]

I’m sorry you’re going through this. I had 2 (out of 5) cycles have nothing to transfer and it was devastating. My 5th (and last) cycle we did a number of things differently - switched from short to long protocol, added growth hormone. That cycle gave me both my children so something worked. I also think it’s possible to have an “off” month for no understandable reason. This is what I think happened in my 4th cycle. I also think for whatever reason I didn’t do well with Menopur as the 2 cycles that didn’t result in any blasts, were my only 2 Menopur cycles. Hope this helps and wishing you the best xx

[Endofitall in reply to Peony85]

Wow that’s amazing. So happy to hear you had your two babies from that cycle. Growth hormone has never been offered or discussed with me. It’s so unfortunate there isn’t a less brutal and cheaper way of finding out what suits your ovaries and will work without spending fortune and having the heartbreak of a failed cycle. Thanks ☺️ xx

[Peony85 in reply to Endofitall]

Unfortunately HGH is sporadically used. My clinic used to only use it for low AMH, but I found a study that looked at use in people with prior failed cycles that produced no blasts and my clinic agreed to try it. I definitely feel lucky for that!

[Axel131]

So sorry to hear this, I know how devastating it can be. I've had 7 IVF cycles in total and mostly short protocol which seems to work for me. Cycles 4 and 5, none made it past day 3 and I was shocked as that had never been a problem for me. Those cycles I was with another clinic and they did oestrogen priming and a change in the meds from Menopur to Gonal F. For cycles 6 and 7, I went back to the previous protocol and got 3 and 4 blasts so for me, I know that the oestrogen doesn't suit me and the menopur seems to work better for me too. IVF seems to be a really expensive trial and error to see what works for you. You are so much younger than me and have every chance of it working when you figure out the right protocol so please don't loose hope.

[Endofitall in reply to Axel131]

Thank you that’s really kind. I am nervous about doing oestrogen priming again - perhaps it’s just not for me. As you say a very expensive trial and error! Currently the plan is to retry oestrogen priming but with my old stim protocol. Hopefully it’s not a disaster!

[Axel131 in reply to Endofitall]

Absolutely, fingers crossed it will be the best cycle yet!

[ElianaandOrsmum]

hi Endofitall . I’m so sorry to hear about your situation. Ever heard of the CAAP - combine agonist antagonist protocol, kinda like combining long and short protocol . So that may be perfect for you. So far only one clinic I know of in Ireland offers it. And it worked well for me in a previous ivf that yielded pregnancy but ended in a miscarriage. But that was the best result I had gotten. It’s worth looking into. Praying for the best for you

[Endofitall in reply to ElianaandOrsmum]

I’m so overwhelmed by everyone’s kindness here in taking time to reply to me. Thanks so much for sharing this. This is the protocol I think I’d asked about but they said they had never heard of it and weren’t happy to do something experimental! But I can see clinics do use it for those with DOR. At least I can take the idea to a new clinic if needed 🙏🏼

[WanderingWonder]

❤️ sending love as I’ve no wisdom to offer ❤️

[Swimming87]

On the same boat as you and sending good wishes as equally lost ❤️

[Orttc]

Poor you this really sounds so demoralising. I think if it were me I’d want to go back and repeat the protocol of the cycle which had given me the best results previously unless the dr gave me a very good reason to do something else instead. Otherwise I’d probably be wondering if it’s the drug combination that had something to do with it. You could also look at adding AOA at the fertilisation stage, lots of people on here have had good results with that improving the conversion to blast rate and I’m not aware of any downsides (other than cost, but it’s usually under £400- some clinics charge as little as £100.) Best of luck xx

[Endofitall]

just a little update in case it helps a future someone… after the disaster cycle mentioned above…with a change back to our original protocol we’ve had 4 eggs collected, 3 mature and made blastocysts. One I’ve had transferred back today on day 5, hatching AA grade, and a second good one frozen, third one we are waiting to see on day 6 if okay to freeze.

I know it’s only a small step but feel a huge amount of relief after how gutting it was to have no embryos last time.

It does seem to prove the stim protocol can affect egg quality and it is quality over quantity!

[Elmo13 in reply to Endofitall]

Hi, I’m so glad to read this update! I’m 7 cycles in and totally agree that the stim protocol has a massive impact. Wishing you the best of the luck ❤️

[Endofitall in reply to Elmo13]

Aw thank you so much ❤️this means a lot