2nd FET

hi ladies

sorry as I do post on here quite often, I am new here and it’s my first time having IVF having just failed my first embryo transfer unfortunately - questions pop up in my head as I’m on this journey so I always want to post on here as I know everyone is really supportive in their own experiences

I will be my second embryo transfer this time. It will be a frozen transfer as we have one in freezer thankfully. In regards to my first failed transfer, I believe I was not on enough progesterone. I was on Cyclogest rectally but I know that some women take Lubion injections instead. I responded very well to the inductions during my stimulation stage of IVF. I’ve asked the nurse for the second round to provide me with the injections instead of the rectal pills.

I just wanted to find out peoples experiences, especially with first time transfer, have you had issues with your progesterone or that it wasn’t enough if taken rectally. I bled a lot, and it didn’t feel like a period to me as the pain and bleeding was quite bad.

is there any hope for my second transfer? Is it common for first transfer to fail?

Any advice, opinions are greatly appreciated xxx

[HollyT7]

we had three transfers, first was fresh and we had an early loss and the second two were frozen and successful. I think it’s really pot luck. All our bodies work differently and quality of everything is unique. I did find the frozen transfers a walk in the park compared to fresh though! You feel so in limbo with the first not working but there is nothing to say your next transfer won’t xxx

[Hidden in reply to HollyT7]

Hi Holly

What did you notice different with fresh vs frozen transfers as I have heard this also - that frozen seems to be much easier… also what progesterone were you on? Xxx

[HollyT7 in reply to Hidden]

Yeah defo much easier, less scans, less medication, just felt calmer. I was on cyclogest pessaries twice a day

[Hidden in reply to HollyT7]

Also Holly, can I ask.. as you unfortunately weren’t successful in your first transfer, how did you keep yourself going until the next one? They first one failing has really died down my hopes xx

[HollyT7 in reply to Hidden]

It was tough, I thought that we wouldn’t be lucky enough for it to work again, but it did, twice! I hope that gives you some hope that your second can be different. I read Rhonda Byrnes book, the secret, and that kept me thinking a little more positive. It’s hard when your in the middle of all this to pick yourself up, so just do what you can, buy some cosy pjs, eat that chocolate bar, have a warm bath, anything that makes you feel like your giving yourself a hug. Allocate some time to cry then think a positive thought and keep going with it xx

[Hidden in reply to HollyT7]

Aww thanks HollyT7 means a lot! I was quite upset this morning as I spoke to the nurse at my clinic who was explaining next steps for my 2nd frozen embryo transfer. I was hoping it would be by mid June after my next period but they said July! I am just waiting to speak to the doctor to see what he can do and get the pot sooner as he was always fast tracking me maybe due to age etc… x how long did you have to wait for your next transfer after the failed one? Xx

[HollyT7 in reply to Hidden]

It’s like grief everyday isn’t it. Once you’re out of all of this you’ll look back at now and want to give yourself such a hug. You might feel really weak now but my gosh you’ll see how strong you’ve been once this is all over.

My fresh transfer was the last week of April and I got a bfp 1st May (tested early) and my first frozen was 20th August so nearly four months apart so your dates seem pretty similar. If I remember right, they wanted me to have a bleed after the initial failure bleed, then one after that. We were 33 at the time. We ended up with 3 embryos from the 24 follicles. It really doesn’t matter about the numbers, you just need to control what you can, and that’s that precious body of yours.

I know it’s hard not to want to rush, but just remember how much your body has been through for this fresh transfer, you want it to have a nice little break and some rest so it’s all fresh and ready for that little bean. You don’t want to look back and blame yourself for not giving your body time to recover if for whatever reason it didn’t work out . We put enough blame on ourselves as it is xxx

[Purple_skies]

I had bfn on 1st time and I bled before my beta. I inserted my crinone gel late just before the bleeding. Went to A and E and blood test showed bfn. Was devastated then. My bleeding was heavy after I stopped crinone gel as expected because we are given meds to thicken endometrial lining.I just had my 6th embryo transfer (FET) and it was bfp. Of course I am relieved but at the same time cautiously optimistic. This time I just did whatever I like during tww, did not do any HPT. I did not have any symptoms of pregnancy and was expecting bfn. I think sometimes we get bpn because there was probably something wrong with the embryo but of course it is a devastating experience that no one wants.

[Hidden in reply to Purple_skies]

Aww congratulations on your BFP finally! I hope it all goes well and you feel well! Look after yourself. I have never heard of the crinone gel I think my clinic off cyclogest rectal pills or lubion injection. Xx

[Purple_skies in reply to Hidden]

Yeah brands differ across different countries.

[Kate-92]

I would agree with Holly, Everyone's bodies react & work completely differently. I was lucky that our 1st transfer worked, But i just wanted to comment as progesterone wise i took Utrogestan 200mg 3x per day vaginally & i feel that they worked really well - I took them until i was 8 or 10 wks pregnant & the clinic said by that point my body would be producing enough to sustain pregnancy so i didn't need anymore although i am sure if i was concerned or pushed they would have given until 12 wks. Wish you well with your 2nd transfer - be kind to yourself x

[Hidden in reply to Kate-92]

I’m glad they worked well for you! I don’t feel the cyclogest rectally worked well at all for me. Apparently you are not supposed to bleed when on progesterone but I bled so so much, clots and everything I am sorry for TMI. Xx

[Kate-92 in reply to Hidden]

If you had an adverse reaction i am sure that the clinic would try something else and not give you the same again, but insist on something different. Either an injection or a vaginal pessary - You absolutely dont want to be bleeding / passing clots x

[Hidden in reply to Kate-92]

Thank you lovely yes I have already told them I want the Lubion injection as I responded very very well to injections during stimulation injections and everything thankfully was absolutely perfect.. I won’t do another transfer unless they give me the lubion injection as I am not going through the pain and bleeding plus clots I went through this time again. Also, it is our last embryo so I will not take any chances. We would need to do another IVF cycle if the second one fails. It’s not even just about the physical aspect of things, mentally it’s been hard and heartbreaking xxx

[Kate-92 in reply to Hidden]

The whole process is so testing - on even the most resilient of people x One of the things i found the hardest was the drop from eggs collected to those that made it to blastocyst, i don't think anyone can prepare you for that ! I also didn't anticipate the anxiety & worry that would come with actually being pregnant. Stick by your guns & advocate for what's best for you - Really hope that everything goes well & your second transfer brings you happiness x

[Hidden]

thank you for such kind words xx the embryo they put inside me which failed was a blastocyst 4AB and also the next one which will be put in me next is also a blastocyst 4BB so I am grateful for such healthy developed embryos… it certainly was a very anxious stage for me too when we did egg collection and that same night to find out next day if they even fertilized! We were lucky to get 4 but 2 didn’t develop further leaving us with the two I mentioned above. Was there anything in particular you did prior to your embryo transfer or during the two week wait to help with implantation? I know every woman’s body is different and response differently xx

[Kate-92 in reply to Hidden]

I had 17 eggs collected & ended up with 2 blastocyst, I did have 4 totally that they were watching but like you 2 didn’t develop further. We also had another that they classed as a 1PN which I had never heard of but we made the decision not to freeze as they couldn’t tell us if it was fertilised or not. The one we transferred was a 4AA. I just tried to remain as relaxed as possible before collection & post transfer - it’s really hard but I just had to let things like work go and focus on myself and my body. Vitamin wise I took vit D & folic acid in folate form daily and just made sure I was getting enough vitamins & minerals via my diet. It’s hard because I believe you can take so many supplements but for some they don’t actually do anything… to this point I still take the same but have added omega 3.

I know people like myself where they have been fortunate enough for it to work 1st time, others 2nd and someone as far as 8th transfer ! Don’t be too harsh on yourself, there’s a reason for the 1st transfer not working - 🙏🏼🤞🏼 for the 2nd xx

[Hidden in reply to Kate-92]

Thank you so much! I will be getting a call from the nurse today to start planning the next transfer! Nerve wracking but also exciting… it’s like you don’t want to do it again but then you do bc you want a baby and can’t give up! I am on pregnacare plus and also ordered some Coq10 plus eat very healthy and doing all I can now for this 2nd transfer to hopefully work! Xx

[Kate-92 in reply to Hidden]

yes I’ve read alot about CoQ10 especially with regard to egg health x hope everything goes well with your call - keep us updated with what your protocol will be x

[Hidden in reply to Kate-92]

Thank you I will do xxx

[Crochet_queen]

Hi! Probably a bit late now as you've probably already got the answers/advice you need...but our first fresh transfer failed and we don't know why..I've just put it down to my body being in shock from everything that happened ie stimulation,egg retrieval etc so it just wasn't ready to make a home for an embryo. For our first transfer I was only on cyclogest pessaries. After discussing things at length with our consultant we opted to add in lubion (which was more his idea), we didn't have my progesterone levels checked as he said that the cost of the test is about the same as a weeks worth of lubion and if the levels are low I'd be starting the lubion anyway (and given that pregnancy is a high progesterone state it was better my levels were higher). We also opted for an endometrial scratch....there isn't any definitive evidence about it improving success rates but we wanted to make our FET different to our first transfer. Anyway, I'm not sure exactly what it was but our FET resulted in our now 13week old little girl. We have one embryo left in the freezer and have already said we would do the same again. Good luck xxx

[Hidden in reply to Crochet_queen]

Hi I agree I think as it was my first ever IVF our bodies have never been through this before so it doesn’t always know how to respond. I did great during stimulation injections but right at the end with the pessaries etc I just didn’t get my end goal of a pregnancy! I have heard from many and online resources that it’s common for IVF to fail first time so I am hoping 2nd time around my body adapts better plus I will be in Lubion injections and I will also request for the pessaries on top! Can I ask - what is the endometrial scratch? And I am so happy you were successful and have a beautiful little girl now xxx

[Crochet_queen in reply to Hidden]

Thank you!I had the pessaries vaginally twice a day and then a once daily injection.... definitely worth giving them a try!

The idea behind the endometrial scratch is that by scratching the lining of the uterus it triggers the release of hormones to aid repair of the lining which makes it more inclined to allow implantation...as I said the evidence is still quite patchy around this add-on but this website explains it (probably better than I have 🤣).

hfea.gov.uk/treatments/trea....

xx

[Hidden in reply to Crochet_queen]

Thank you I had a look - sounds interesting! I am just waiting on a follow up appt now with my doctor at the clinic and can hopefully get some more hope in me after speaking to him also as I’ve been quite anxious and stressed this morning. I didn’t wanna wait too long to get the ball rolling with my 2nd transfer, but the nurse said it may not be until July! I am happy to have time to let my body heal, etc. but at the same time mentally it’s very tough for me to wait around as well. Xx

[Crochet_queen in reply to Hidden]

I think that's totally understandable....we had our failed transfer in February last year, didn't start the medication for our FET until the May. It felt like ages, but in reality it was only a couple of months which looking back was quite nice to have a little bit of "downtime" before starting the emotional rollercoaster that is all things IVF!We found our 'debrief' with our consultant really helpful, we started at the very beginning....going through what happened and all our options moving forward. I found making a list of questions helpful as it allowed me to clear my head ready to start again.

Wishing you lots of luck xxx

[Hidden in reply to Crochet_queen]

Aww that’s good I’m glad it all went well for you and thank you for the well wishes. My doctor is amazing tbh he’s been really understanding and I know he will try everything in my interest now that it’s failed for a successful 2nd transfer. Can I just ask what meds did they put you back in and how soon before FET did you have to start taking them? Xx

[Crochet_queen in reply to Hidden]

I can't remember the name of the drugs they used for down regulation (the nurse said it would "turn everything off" so they had control), but it was an injection once a day, I then had to wait for my period (typically it was late!) once it came I started estrogen tablets whilst continuing with the injections, with a couple of ultrasound scans to check the lining was ok. I think the medications can vary from clinic to clinic and possibly even consultant to consultant, but will also depend on your medical history as I believe this journey is very individual.We started on 1st May and had our transfer on 1st June, last year. So in terms of time it was about the same as my fresh cycle xx

[Hidden in reply to Crochet_queen]

Hi thank you for that information! Yeah it will vary for each patient I totally understand that I just wanted to get an idea of the meds and what was required before 2nd transfer as it’s all new to me! Xxx

[Crochet_queen in reply to Hidden]

I was exactly the same! Once I had the transfer I continued with the tablets (3 times/day), cyclogest pessaries and lubion injections. The clinic advised me on when to reduce and stop etc once we had had our transfer.Although the down regulation medication gave me hot flushes (I was told to expect some menopause type symptoms), I found it much easier than our initial IVF cycle. xx

[Hidden in reply to Crochet_queen]

hi thank you for your reply

I will be speaking to the doctor this week so I will find out exactly what their plan is for me, but I will advocate for myself as I am not having a repeat of the first round as I am sure it was due to the lack of progesterone that I had so much bleeding and miscarried. Xx

[Purple011]

On my second (and successfully) transfer) I was prescribed lubion injections once a day and pessaries twice a day. I think you should perhaps do both, best wishes x

[Hidden in reply to Purple011]

That’s great! Congratulates I’m glad it worked and went well for you! I will be doing same I hope I get my happy ending too 😀xx

[Twiglet2]

I take progesterone vaginally 200 x twice a day and a lubion injection once a day this sorted my progesterone in that I don’t bleed before test day. My understanding is it’s best to do both, the injection ‘tops up’ for ladies who don’t always absorb the vaginal/rectal ones but it is still best to have those too as that’s the best way to take it for a transfer. As you will be having a frozen transfer whatever progesterone you start will need to be taken up to at least 8 weeks (I was 12) if successful. I need to caveat though fixing the progesterone doesn’t always mean it will be successful as the embryo and other factors come into play as well but it is defo one thing to try since you did bleed before test day. Its great you have a wee embryo frozen and it was a frozen one that worked for us a few years ago (now been trying for a sibling for a few years without luck) best of luck for your next transfer xx

[Hidden in reply to Twiglet2]

Hi Twiglet2 thank you so much, planning can begin today finally for 2nd transfer. Should be in about 4/5 weeks once I get a period.. hopefully my body is healed a lot more by then! I hope you become successful again with trying for siblings xx just keep positive it will happen soon! Xx

[Twiglet2 in reply to Hidden]

Thanks lovely ☺️ booked in for a FET end of June with our only frostie this round so we will probs be similar timelines 🤞🏽

[Hidden in reply to Twiglet2]

oh that’s lovely that we may have our transfers around the same time. They did say mine might go into July so I have no idea if it’ll be end of June or start of July. I wonder why it is that they say frozen transfers work better than fresh ones? X

[Sucre1705]

My first ivf was a fresh transfer which failed, I knew about lubiin I told the clinic they refused and said it doesn’t state anywhere that it will work.so I went to another clinic where I had my bfp it was a frozen transfer nd I believe the injections helped in my case as I had the lentogest injectection and progesterone virginally twice everyday.

I wish u success on ur next transfer.

[Hidden in reply to Sucre1705]

hi thank you for your reply

yeah I’m planning to have the progesterone pill twice a day plus the injection (Lubion)

to be honest, I won’t have my second transfer if they say for me to take only the pill again as it caused me so much bleeding and clearly was not enough progesterone for me in my body to hold the pregnancy

I went through tremendous amount of bleeding and clots And horrible back pain and cramps x

[Eloquentia]

I am so sorry your first transfer didn't work. Mine didn't either and I suspected it was due to low progesterone as the result on transfer day was below 30. I insisted that my clinic tests my progesterone two days before and on the day of transfer for my second FET. It was low both times so they ended up tripling my dose - I was on 2 x 200 Cyclogest twice per day and Crinone gel midday. That transfer worked. Other things I changed the second time include going on Mediterranean diet with Greek yoghurt, honey and walnuts, taking oral and vaginal probiotics (Biogaia and Canesfloor) and taking baby aspirin. Also pomegranate juice for the lining. Worth asking your clinic what did they learn with the first transfer and what are they going to change in your protocol to do better. Very best of luck!

[Hidden in reply to Eloquentia]

Hi I am sorry that your transfer didn’t work either but I’m glad to have this support network as we can all understand how each other are feeling. I have about baby aspirin, but then I read a few things about how it may not be safe for defects in the baby? So I was a bit wary of ordering it and taking it. Have you heard anything about this as well?

[Eloquentia in reply to Hidden]

Thank you! My second transfer worked and I have a healthy baby girl from it. The baby aspirin is a bit of a two edged sword in my personal experience. On the one side, it helps increase blood flow to the uterus and assists implantation, on the other it increases the risk of subchorionic haematomas, which are a form of internal bleed. I got a large one around week 5 and had to stop it and take it easy. Fortunately, it resolved itself by the 12 week scan. It is definitely worth discussing the pros and cons with your clinic. Very best of luck with your next transfer!

[Hidden]

hi I am so happy for you it all worked out and you had your beautiful baby girl

I may look into taking baby aspirin, this is our second transfer, and if this one fails, I may have no other embryos as I don’t know if I’m entitled to another round on the NHS so it’s quite scary and I want to do everything I can to hopefully be successful this time around

Can I ask when did you start taking baby aspirin and when did you stop? Xx