Do you think ivf treatment abroad is better and why?

[ourbundleofjoy]

Hi everyone,

I would like to get some advice regarding treatments abroad, please. We are with a great private clinic in London, but our last attempt was disastrous. 

Would you please be able to share your treatment plan or protocol and how it was different from the one received here in Uk? According to our specialist (who we still admire), there is no more test we can do, no other advanced method we can use.... 

So, my question is, why are clinics in Spain, Greece, Cyprus, or... more successful? And would we be able to receive more advanced treatment abroad?

We used IMSI+ Calcium Ionophore + Time-Lapse incubation and imaging + Assisted zona hatching + PGT-A. Before we transferred our only blastocyst (euploid) we also did ERA, EMMA, ALICE, and NK cells. All tests were normal and everything looked great. Before transfer I also got intralipids. On the day of the transfer, we did hCG flush. As said, everything looked great, and I felt great, but I still didn't get pregnant.

After this unsuccessful attempt, we started with Traditional Chinese medicine (acupuncture + herbal products), and last month we had a very disappointing egg collection, only 3 eggs were collected and only one achieved fertilization (PIMSI + Calcium Ionophore + Time-Lapse incubation) but unfortunately, our only embryo did not survive not even to day 3. To say that we are heartbroken is an understatement.

Is there any other technique/procedure they perform abroad but not here in the UK? Our consultant advised us to use donor eggs for any future treatments.

This was supposed to be our last ivf cycle, but I just can't let it go. I can't let go of our dream. As difficult as this journey is, I find it easier to keep going than to give up. 

Before we go down the donor route I would like to be sure that we really used the latest technique possible, so ladies please share your experience of why you think going abroad is better & more successful. 

Thank you for reading this long post. 

I wish you all the best on this journey

[Tnthketnf]

Hi ourbundleofjoy. I am the same age and it looks like in a similar place just now.

I had treatment in UK (NHS clinic in Scotland) and in Greece. Both own eggs so far. Now looking abroad into donor options but still considering own egg. Can't decide. It is a difficult decision. I am very open to donor treatment. It is a decision though with so many implications so I want to be sure. I am also dreading that it won't work (I never had a positive test in 5+ years of trying) and then there is no more hope.

As for the difference between UK and abroad in my experience the protocols were similar, quite conventional in both clinics. The customer care was far better abroad, although I cannot really compare NHS with private/abroad, not as many patients, not overstretched staff.

The Greek clinic told me that the success rates in UK are generally lower (including egg donor cycles) because UK clinics stick to single embryo transfers. Whilst abroad they still do a lot of double transfers. In relation to donor treatment specifically the donors are usually younger than UK, clinics use fresh egg cycles -not from frozen banks and also more donors available, Which is down to allowing completely anonymous donation so more available donors.

[ourbundleofjoy in reply to Tnthketnf]

Dear Tnthketnf,

thank you for your reply and information. I checked your profile/posts, and yes we are in a similar situation. I am sorry you haven't got your dream yet, I think we shouldn't give up just yet.

It is interesting what you said about success rates and their relation to single/double embryo transfers, it makes sense. So far we have never been that lucky to have more than 1 blastocyst.

I was hoping someone would mention a clinic in xxx country with more advanced add-ons/treatments. I guess we really did our best, as our doctor said there are no more tests, or additional add-ons they could recommend. I was hoping our doctor was wrong.

I am the same as you, looking at the options - looking for clinics abroad or staying here in the UK, or... or just stop looking at all and accept the situation, I am exhausted. I am really tired and heartbroken.

We are thinking about having a few months off and then we will make plans for what to do next, and where to go next.

Otherwise, I am quite open to donor eggs as well, my partner was a bit reluctant at the beginning, but we read about epigenetics and he came around as well. I see donor eggs as a heart transplant, so if your partner/husband had a heart transplant would then he not be the love of your life anymore? That is how I see it, but I understand that some don't have the same opinion.

Thank you for the info on donor eggs abroad. I read some of your posts too, lots of helpful information.

Thank you for your message and I wish you all the best ♡ ♡ ♡

[Tnthketnf in reply to ourbundleofjoy]

I totally understand the exhaustion and the emotional cost of all this. I feel like this. Burnout. No idea what I should do despite getting a second and third opinion. I know DE treatment will give me more chances but I want to make sure I did what I could about my own eggs first.

I wish you all the best for the next steps!

[ChloeDE]

I think it's difficult to make comparisons. If someone has been successful at a clinic, they will think it's great. If they have been unsuccessful, it's quite natural to find fault with the clinic. There are only a certain number of tests and add ons available and it sounds like you have done your research and done what you think will help you. We did 2x NHS funded cycles with a private clinic in the UK then went to czech Republic for donor eggs. The package, price and (for us most importantly) waiting times were much better in Czech Republic but I think both clinics were able to offer the same treatments (albeit at different prices and times).

[ourbundleofjoy in reply to ChloeDE]

Dear ChloeDE,

thank you for your message. I agree with you - if someone is successful, then they will think more highly of the clinic. I still believe that our clinic in the UK is great, well yes customer service is as it is (not that great, well it all depends on who you get) but our consultant is amazing.

As mentioned in my response above, I was hoping that there is another procedure/treatment we could do, that we missed, something that our current clinic doesn't perform. Thank you for your comment on treatment abroad and here.

For us as well, cost and waiting time will have a massive impact on what we decide to do next. I am not sure if we can afford another cycle in our current clinic.

Thank you for your message and I wish you all the best to you & your family ♡ ♡ ♡

[Hidden]

Are overseas clinics definitely more successful? I am not sure that they are?

One of the things my consultant said was that IVF in countries like Greece and the Czech Republic is regulated to different guidelines compared to the UK and Spain for example. I guess this is a double edged sword as it means they potentially have the freedom to do more creative things (eg new techniques and tests) but it also means that they might not be as tested and proven to the standards a UK clinic would expect.

I am so sorry for what you have been through, I can absolutely understand why you feel so let down when you have thrown everything at it. It's physically and mentally exhausting. I think the worst thing about IVF is that there is an element of luck and you could throw everything at it and get nowhere, and someone could do a round with a terrible quality embryo and have a baby, there just doesn't seem to be any logic to it at times. I am no expert but it does sound like you have literally tried everything.

The only thing I do wonder about is egg quality - and thats something you can't really improve (as far as I am aware). After 6 own fresh own egg rounds we were told that there was nothing more that they could do with my eggs, and even if we got pregnant the chances of a miscarriage were very high as they could only really assume it was egg quality that was an issue when everything else seemed fine... which then does naturally lead onto the DE discussion x

[ourbundleofjoy in reply to Hidden]

Hi Daisy, 

thank you for your message and for challenging my statement regarding success abroad. As mentioned, I was just looking for a ray of hope that we missed something and that some magical treatment exists. I know the answer, at the moment there is nothing more we can do or we could have done, maybe I just needed to hear it one more time.

I agree, Ivf is physically and mentally exhausting. It is not just going to the doctor's appointments and doing injections, it takes over the whole lifestyle (what you eat, drink, how you clean the house, what cosmetic products you use, whether you are allowed to exercise or not, and more....) It takes every bit of energy you have. Daisy, you have been through a lot and more. I am so happy for you, you finally got lucky ♡ 

My period is very weak and lasts a day or so, this is also one of the indicators that my egg quality and reserve are very low. Donor eggs seem to be our best option. We were also told the same thing as you mentioned - if we get pregnant with my own eggs, we have a high chance of a miscarriage. I am not opposed to donor eggs, but it was still hard to hear that my own are not good enough. Sending lots of love xx

[Boo718]

are they more successful than uk? I think it might be mixed response. I definitely found them to be much more communicative, much less waiting between appointments. Much more helpful. I liked the fact that it was the same doctor and nurses we dealt with every time who explained every test and part of ivf to us. No question was silly. Blood results and test results back the same day or next morning. I personally had a much better experience abroad. But it still did take us 5 transfers and 4 of them were donor. Xxx

[ourbundleofjoy in reply to Boo718]

Hi Boo718,

thank you for sharing your experience. Yes, donor eggs are not some magical cure that you definitely get pregnant on the first try. I really wish that getting pregnant would be as easy as I thought all these years ago.

Luckily you got there and I cross all my fingers that all will be well with you. Sending you lots of love xx

[Anim88]

I have felt that they're more likely to cater to your needs, and face each situation in a unique way. Not a one size fits all kind of thing.

[ourbundleofjoy]

Hi  Anim88,

thank you for your message. I must say that our consultant is brilliant,  I really think she cares for her patients and looks at each case individually. But as for others, like the patient liaison team, they are not even worth mentioning. Sonographers and nurses are okay, it all depends on who you get, some are brilliant and some are.... But I have no experience with any of the clinics abroad so it is impossible for me to compare. I wish you all the best on your journey, I hope you get your dream soon. xx

[GSX2019]

I am really sorry to hear about your latest round of treatment. We are 6 years into our journey with 4 egg collections, 5 failed transfers and 1 chemical behind us.

We made a decision a while ago not to go down the route of any add-ons which the HFEA gave a red light to. Not that we don’t believe that some of it has merit (perhaps the evidence just needs to catch up) but we didn’t want to do down a rabbit hole of more treatments, more add-ons, more money. We felt that every cycle has a chance and sometimes it just takes a few to get there. The one test I was recommended by my consultant was thrombophilia screening which showed that I have a factor v Leiden mutation so we added clexane to our last cycle. We got our first ever positive when we used clexane for the first time in September last year though it sadly ended in a chemical at 6 weeks. This has given us some hope though.

Our next cycle is going to be a completely natural FET (other than the clexane). I feel quite anxious about leaving all of the monitoring and drugs behind but I also feel that I need to have faith in my body and at least give it a try. It’s completely new for us so I am hoping this might be our lucky round.

I am not convinced by treatment abroad. It is so difficult to see how success rates are calculated that they’re virtually impossible to compare. I look at the price lists on their websites and I can’t see how it works out any cheaper. I’m also not a keen flyer so wouldn’t want that added stress.

We haven’t ruled out donor eggs yet. It has been suggested that our issue may be egg quality as we have no other known issues (I had both tubes removed hence the reason for IVF in the first place) but we aren’t ready to move on yet. I produce plenty of eggs but we are lucky to get 1 or 2 blasts by day 5 and had 1 round with no blasts. I always had 6 egg collections in mind as my limit and we still have 2 to go before we get there. I am currently 36 so I feel we have time. However, if we do go down the route of donor eggs, I feel really uncomfortable with the thought of using an anonymous donor and in my research, I haven’t been able to find a clinic abroad who offer treatment from a known donor.

I apologise for the essay but your post really resonated with me and so many of the conversations partner and I have had recently.

I wish you the best of luck with your next steps and I hope that you are able to come to a decision which you feel comfortable with. xx