4AA but same again, bleeding. Feeling... - Fertility Network UK

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4AA but same again, bleeding. Feeling low and need support please. Is it natural killer cells?

LittleT123 profile image
23 Replies

Yesterday was 6DPT and we had a beautiful 4AA embryo transferred. This is my 3rd cycle of IVF and we have never had this quality before. We also got a 4AB and a 4CA that were both able to be frozen. Again we have never had anything to freeze on past 2 cycles. To say we were more hopeful this time around us an understatement.

Then yesterday I started spotting. 6DPT and 11DPR. I’ve had this spotting on the same day in both my previous cycles and not been pregnant so I’m assuming this is the same again.

I called the nurses to explain and all they say is keep taking the medications until test day and bleeding doesn’t always mean AF is on the way. I understand why they say this however sometimes I just want to stop kidding myself, I know my body and I know this has been unsuccessful again as it’s exactly the same. Feel like I’m carrying on with progesterone just to tick a box when I know there’s no pregnancy.

Also, friends are telling my not to worry it might be implantation bleeding and I know they are trying to help but just wish they could be honest and say this is sh*T rather than try and sugar coat. It’s like other people sit in denial more than myself when what I need is support not people telling me it will all be OK. My partner bless him is being the practical man and saying as soon as we have done they test we will make appointment with our specialist and his first question will be to ask what the doctor thinks about me always getting spotting on the same day after transfer and why the embryo isn’t attaching. I’m told my endometrial lining is thick and the embryo is good quality so what is the issue? I love him for his efforts to make a plan how to tackle this but sometimes I just need him to feel this with me and he does the fixing thing all the time.

Something I’ve researched a little is Natural Killer Cells which could possibly be the reason why it’s not working?

Really starting to get concerned now that I’m able to get pregnant at 38 nearly 39 as if a 4AA can’t implant then do I have any hope?

Think I’m just looking for some sort of success stories. I’m literally at breaking point at this moment in time. I’m sure lots of you have been here too.

23 Replies
sarahkhoury profile image
sarahkhoury

hi I had a grade A not implanted also and one grade B even though perfect lining

I have the same question as yours.

my doctor says" bad luck yet again". me:" I don't think so"

LittleT123 profile image
LittleT123 in reply to sarahkhoury

exactly, can’t just keep having bad luck this is science not a dabble on the races. I don’t believe that this is about luck at all, there’s a reason for it. Either I’m too old or I’ve got NK cells or my endometrial lining isn’t good enough. I want to know the reason!! I’m angry

sarahkhoury profile image
sarahkhoury in reply to LittleT123

lining above 7 mm is good.

NK cells I think there is a genetic test you can do to know.

i agree there is no bad luck especially when more than 1 time.

LittleT123 profile image
LittleT123 in reply to sarahkhoury

my endometrial lining was above this I’m sure around 9

I’m asking for the tests , can’t just keep trying without success as feel it’s just wasting embryos now as I’ve had 3 failed attempts with fresh embryo.

That is another point, maybe for me a frozen transfer could be better.

I will speak to my doctor and see if they will test for NK cells. I want to pay for the test so there shouldn’t be a problem.

Redsequin profile image
Redsequin

Hello lovely, I’m so sorry you’re going through this. It must be so upsetting to always get bleeding on the same day post transfer, and I understand how hard it is when everyone is just telling you everything will be fine rather than acknowledging that it isn’t and that it sucks.

I had a thought reading your post that it may not necessarily be an implantation problem but could *possibly* be an embryo problem. Even if the embryo grade is good, sometimes the embryo is not chromosomally normal and that stops it implanting. Has your partner had the sperm karyotype test? Maybe you could chat with your doctor about whether it’s worth PGS testing the remaining embryos?

Sending hugs xxxx

LittleT123 profile image
LittleT123

hi Redsequin thank you so much for your message I appreciate it. I mentioned PGS testing in the last consultation but the doctor said as I had only had 2 failed transfers it was too soon to go down that route. The thing is though I don’t want to be a science experiment I want to test everything now to try and avoid trial and error as trial and error is just more heart ache.

Receiving big hugs and sending big thanks back xxx

Redsequin profile image
Redsequin in reply to LittleT123

Hmm, yes, your doctor is probably right, but I know what you mean about just wanting to get everything tested so you know where you stand early on! We had the karyotype test before we started our first round as it’s much cheaper than PGS testing, and it at least gave us confidence my husband’s sperm was chromosomaly normal (although of course we had no idea about my eggs!), so that could be an option if you ever do another collection round. Xxx

LittleT123 profile image
LittleT123 in reply to Redsequin

I know he has had DNA fragmentation testing done which came back as medium fragmentation and resulted in us going for ICSI for the past two round but I don’t know about karyotype testing I will look into this thank you xx

Nenad profile image
Nenad

hi there, can I ask how many failed transfers you’ve had in total? The reason I ask is I did a lot of blood work after 3 failed transfers (the most recent being a chemical) and I found that I tested positive for several blood clotting/thrombophilia antibodies which means I’ll need injections each time and throughout pregnancy if successful. Can’t recommend these blood tests enough if you’ve had several failed attempts. Wishing you all the best xx

LittleT123 profile image
LittleT123 in reply to Nenad

hi thanks for your message. I’ve had 3 failed transfers so far. What should I ask the doctor for? To test for blood clotting/thrombophilia antibodies? Xx

Nenad profile image
Nenad in reply to LittleT123

Sorry you’ve had 3 failed transfers as well. This should definitely warrant some blood work. Yes I’d highly recommend the thrombophilia screen, it tests for several antibodies/mutations. It’s a leading cause of implantation failure and miscarriage. I had to keep pushing for testing because I got the classic “it’s life, it happens” which I didn’t accept. Hope you get some answers xx

LittleT123 profile image
LittleT123 in reply to Nenad

thank you for your suggestion I will definitely speak to the doctor about this. Did you have better success following the blood work? Xx

Nenad profile image
Nenad in reply to LittleT123

pleasure! I only got the results yesterday so I’m planning next steps for my next transfer. But many ladies on this forum have had success with blood thinning injections when a problem had been identified xx

LittleT123 profile image
LittleT123 in reply to Nenad

good luck to you Nenad sending positive vibes and baby dust xxx

Nenad profile image
Nenad in reply to LittleT123

thank you so much! All the best to you too xxx

IVFmumma profile image
IVFmumma

So sorry about your failed transfers and how your feeling. It really sucks.

I just wanted to share that after my 4 failed transfers I did another retrieval with new embryos created. We PGT tested the best 4 embryos. Their grades were 5AB, 5BB, 5BA, 5BA. So all great quality. But only 2 were chromosomely normal. And the best one, the 5AB was one of the abnormal ones that was discarded. I was so shocked to be honest, but made me really glad I tested them as we then transferred a tested eupoloid embryo and I just got my BFP 🙏🏻

Theres so many tests etc you can do but I would definitely consider testing future embryos if you can 🤞🏻✨

Sending love xx

SRA8 profile image
SRA8

I had implantation bleeding and bad cramps in my pregnancy. Thought it was a bad period coming went out an bought more pads.

MariaHdz profile image
MariaHdz

I also felt like that. But grade is not everything. My best embryos also failled and the one that was good but not perfect, worked. They did not even gave grades, to not obssess with them (they said it was info for the doctors and it would be in my expedient if i changed clinics but that it just brought unnecessary stress... that if they were good enough to freeze then all was ok). I have been in your shoes many times. And I used to think that I knew when a cycle failled before anyone. The truth is that you just know on testing day. In fact, when thinking back, thinking that it failled made me be sloppy with my progesterone and this could have impacted my chances. The cycle that worked, i had horrible cramps, i just had an xray because i broke my foot 2 days after transfer and I got covid (all this inpacts implantation). So i was hopping for a negative, as usual... but this time it was different. All your embryos are good, and they all have a chance to implant. Over your husband, I am also a problem solver/fixer. And this is the way in which I cope and how I "feel" things. Sometimes it is annoying to others, because they need something else, but it is what I need. And so i try to understand them and they try to understand me. IVF is hard. We know it is hard for women or the person going thru the procedure , but remember that it is also hard for the partner. Basically they are standing there, ignored, feeling useless. So it is normal that they try to solve some things to cope and feel better. Specially guys. It is difficult for them to just show sadness. Culturally they need to be strong, and look for solutions for others or they are considered untrustworthy.

Hopecontinues profile image
Hopecontinues

Hi,

I've had 5 BFNs, it's heartbreaking and not helpful when you're told to try again. Here, have another £10k I'll go again. Last time I said I'd do all the tests, went to a uk clinic paid £260 for a consultation and was given a quote over £4k for all the tests, but that didn't include a hysteroscopy. This forum has been amazing though, so let me impart some of the knowledge:

Tests:

Hysteroscopy- checks for obstructions (discovered i had a subseptate uterus and had to have it fixed)

Thrombophilia - someone recommended i chat with Fertilysis- free consultation and they do this test much cheaper than uk clinics. They told me not to bother, as ive previously used blood thinning injections and that didn't work. If you haven't it's worth doing the test or just using thinning injections next time.

Immune Testing - Clinic told me this is more likely to cause miscarriage than implantation failure, especially since ive done cycles with prednisolone, but just ordered the test through Fertilysis anyway and need to go have my blood taken.

ERA - lots of people think this makes a difference, but lots of clinics abroad don't rate the test. I'm going to give it a miss this time.

Emma/alice - i had one of these in Greece and it came back normal. Lots of people benefit from this one though.

Thyroid test - i did this through medichecks, but you can get it through an nhs doctor. Some clinics want your TSH levels around 1 and think this impacts implantation if it's higher than 2.

I recently discovered a clinic in Spain who do all the testing including hysteroscopy and the male tests, for half the price i was quoted here. I wish I'd spoken to them a long time ago. They do uterine prp too which helps with implantation, but they'll only do it if they think you need it.

I really hope you don't need any of these tests, but if you do, let me know and I'll private message the clinic in Spain to you, they have a whole section on their website dedicated to implantation failure. The best Ive seen and I've done a lot of research.

All the best, I hope we all get to be mum one day. 🙏

LittleT123 profile image
LittleT123 in reply to Hopecontinues

thanks so much for your message and yes please send over on private message xxx really helpful all your info xxx

Tamaa profile image
Tamaa in reply to Hopecontinues

Hopecontinues @Hopecontinues can you please send me the name of clinic in Spain via inbox? Would be much grateful

PrincessGurn1984 profile image
PrincessGurn1984

Hey! Sorry to hear this, I can totally relate to your age concerns I’m just over 38 years old (was in July) and I literally have just got my BFP after 3 egg collections and 5 transfers (6 embryos in total). I am a poor responder and have a low follicle count. I genuinely nearly cancelled my egg collection this time and thank god I didn’t! It is so so hard, I kept thinking is it just I wasn’t receptive and it was me and the clinic kept saying it was embryo quality but you do start to question it. I would say it’s likely embryo quality. NK cells which I also looked into constantly fluctuate. So even if you get them checked and addressed they can change again and again. I have had my progesterone checked on each cycle, I think that’s important it’s not low before transfer, I get my bloods drawn for that the day before transfer to make sure, but given I’ve had gone levels all of my transfers again I think it’s quality. Unless of course you bleed early as you are saying maybe the progesterone dose is too low as that should hold off a bleed wether it sticks or not until you stop meds. I’m not sure if this is helpful but I’m a similar age. We changed a lot of things this cycle, not just meds and protocol but we totally overhauled our nutrition (we aren’t unhealthy or overweight anyway really) but what we eat and general exercise etc. I think it totally made all the difference. I would get your progesterone checked. What meds dose are you on for that? X

LittleT123 profile image
LittleT123

wow my boyfriend was only saying this morning that I shouldn’t be bleeding it must be a progesterone problem. I did have progesterone checked a year ago and it was fine but I think the stimulation medication are stripping me of any natural progesterone so I need more than what they are giving me. I currently take 1 vial of Lubion injected at 9am and a pessary before bed. Your journey is so similar to ours xx

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