Embryo transfer yesterday of 2 embryos

[Downonthefarm]

Hi,

We’ve been told we’ve unexplained infertility since 2017 after trying since Jan 2015 to get pregnant naturally and on our 6th cycle. We’ve had a lot a couple of house moves, moved jobs and cyst problems in this time - hence the time being so drawn out.

We had the transfer yesterday from our third fresh cycle (6th in total).

I responded well to the stims and ended up going in early for egg collection and we had what would be deemed a successful egg collection with 12 collected and 12 fertilized eggs the next day - the embryologist was really hopeful & positive about the result last Thursday when she called us to let us know - we hadn’t had so many fertilise before.

However, having had good response in the past and having my hopes dashed, I really tried not to get excited even though we’d made loads of changes to try improving egg quality with better diet, cutting out perfumed cosmetics and weird and wonderful supplements.

I started to allow myself to wonder if this time things would be better - but I hadn’t prepared myself for things being worse. I feel terrible for my OH, he looks broken.

Yesterday morning the embryologist called us - we were in the car park - it was 15mins before ET. She said that nothing had developed like they would have expected it to by day 5 - there were x1 okish one (about 3 in old system) and another a bit worse quality out of 12. The rest were a bit slow to develop or stopped growing at all. We also paid extra for a time lapse video and embryo mapping to monitor embryo development and from this new system they’ve concluded there’s only a 10-15% chance of the better of the two sticking & resulting in pregnancy (rated a 1 in new system). We were devastated, this was much lower odds than we’d hoped. I bawled in the toilet while getting changed and cried right through the ET - of course also worrying that the anxiety will affect any small chance I have.

My OH and I have spoken about egg donation. I don’t feel hopeful about this transfer but am I jumping the gun with latching onto this? I’m 42 in November, my OH just turned 40, so I’m at a point where I feel like I might be at the end of the road with my own eggs. I just don’t know if I’ve the energy for investing more time, emotion and money in my own eggs.

The embryologist rang this morning and told us we had a decision to make about one of our embryos that had developed quite suddenly overnight to an expanded blastocyst and if we wanted to freeze it. From the POV of the old system, it would have been graded as a 4AB or 4AA even, so initially better than the one we put back. However when put through the new embryo mapping system which compares it against 10,000 embryos, it’s progress is graded low (1) - as in, the same or less than the better one of the two that were put back yesterday. Also, although they give it a 95% chance of surviving the freezing process, they only give this one a 2-3% chance of survival in the womb.

It was a difficult decision to make but my initial gut reaction was, it was not worth keeping, so I have to live by this. My husband had the same thought process. If we hadn’t had frozen cycles before and we didn’t do time lapse/embryo mapping this time, we would have kept it, but given the experience we’ve had with frozen cycles where we put back embroyos of a similar quality (without any knowledge of the time lapse/embryo mapping process) and had no success, it makes sense not to continue with it, otherwise what was the point of the time lapse/embryo mapping?

I’m not really sure what I’m looking for anyone to say here, but I feel like I needed to say something to get it off my chest. Idk, maybe experience of anyone out there at my age who have had success with poor quality embryos after multiple failed cycles?

Thanks so much for anyone who’s taken the time to read this xxx

1st round:

- 16 collected

- 1/2 ICSI, 1/2 IVF

- all 8 ICSI fertilised

- 6 to blastocyst

- x2 very good quality put back

- x4 for storage)

- Chemical pregnancy, period after 2 weeks

- X2 FET - both negative

2nd round:

- 13 collected

- All ICSI

- 9 fertilised

- 5 to blastocyst

- x2 very good quality put back &

- x3 for storage

- Fresh - Chemical pregnancy, period next day

- X1 FET- negative

3rd round

- 12 collected

- All ICSI

- 12 fertilised

- 1.5 to blastocyst

- 1.5 put back

- pregnancy test Friday 14th May

- X0 for storage (decided today)

[Marisa32]

Sorry about your poor outcome. I'm almost 42 myself, so I get the time restraints. I was wondering when you said you had a couple of perfect embryos transfered in the past, were these all PGA tested? Sometimes perfect looking under microscope doesn't mean viable. At our age especially, apparently 9 out 10 eggs are no good. The only thing I can suggest before trying DE (assuming no sperm issues including DNA fragmentation were found) is mild IVF. It produces less eggs but better quality for older women. Hopefully one of these two you have stick. You never know. Many women on here said that those not so perfect looking ones under a microspe made a baby.

[Downonthefarm in reply to Marisa32]

Thanks for responding to this Marisa32.

No, we haven’t done PGA or DNA fragmentation testing before, the result was based on the normal run of the mill grading.

Have you done or know anyone who has done ‘mild’ IVF before? I’m guessing it’s lower menopur? I’ve done long protocol with few weeks of Buserilin, then overlapping menopur. This cycle I was rotating between 150IU and 225IU of Menopur, but still got brought in 2 days early as had about 7 or 8 follicles on each side they thought were ready.

Thanks for the encouragement, I have so many fingers crossed for this cycle it’s not even funny. Xx

[Marisa32 in reply to Downonthefarm]

I haven't done mild IVF myself. It's too expensive here in the US, so after 2 failed short protocol cycles, I just did IUIs - that's all my insurance covered. I ended up getting pregnant from an at home IUI syringe right before going down the DE route. Many women on here did have it and had success. In your case; however, I wonder if it could be sperm issues since DNA fragmentation was never looked at. Maybe worth finding out whether the issue is with eggs or sperm before moving on to the next step.

[Millbanks]

I'm so sorry to hear this lovely - I was hoping for better news for you. I know it sounds really disappointing on paper but in my experience each cycle has been really different - and not in a logical order. Just because this cycle hasn't been what you had hoped for doesn't necessarily mean that if you do try another with your own eggs, that it won't be better. However I completely understand that it's such a difficult decision and this isn't helping! My most successful cycle was a low dose of Gonal-F and a high Menopur (which is supposed to help the eggs mature more). Can your clinic play around with the doses at all? Wishing you all the luck in the world for this 2ww anyway, you just never know what will happen... xxx

[Downonthefarm in reply to Millbanks]

Thanks Millbanks.

I know, it is a really difficult decision to make. I just don’t know how much I have left of myself for it. For instance, this cycle I’ve asked for Fragmin, but those injections are a beech to insert - I was convinced the needles were blunt - yesterday evening I cried (again) as I was injecting it, I don’t know if it was all the emotion or simply just the needles but it took a lot out of me - I nearly didn’t do it.

When you say low dose of gonal-f and high Menopur - how much is that of each?

They’ve rotated the Menopur for me this time 175 / 225 on alternate days for I think about a week/10 day, would need to cross check the length of time.

Thanks for the encouragement-it’s what I really need right now xx

[Millbanks in reply to Downonthefarm]

I've had Inhixa for 3 of my transfers and they are awful too - they really bruise! Are Fragmin spring loaded too? Well done for actually doing it though! I have to get my husband to do all of mine - I'm such a wimp.So it was 225 Menopur and 150 Gonal F for the first 6 days, then 175 Menopur & 150 GF for 3 days, then 75 Menopur and 150 GF for 3 more days, then trigger... I'm not sure how much difference it makes but it was definitely the best cycle for us by far.

Aww I know how you feel - but actually sometimes I think not being super positive can help - your hopes aren't as high and I find I'm not constantly thinking about it all the time... xxx

[Downonthefarm in reply to Millbanks]

Hi Millbanks, thanks for the positive vibes and sorry about the delay in responding.

The Inhixa sounds awful. No, fragmin are not spring loaded, just self-push needles, however they are pre-filled syringes with the needle already on. TBH, they got easier as the days went on - main thing that helped me was to use a bag of peas on the injection site for 5mins before injecting - don’t feel it going in. You can sometimes feel the medicine afterwards, but the lasting coldness of the frozen peas makes that bit more comfortable too. (It may still bruise though, but I’d say it’s probably not as bad as it could be). (Also tried Emla cream once, but I think ice/frozen peas was better).

Fair play allowing your husband to inject for you. We tried that the very first time I had to inject on our first IVF round, but every time he got to the count of 3, I stopped him. Believe it or not, I didn’t inject that night at all, instead I made a next day appointment with at my local GP surgery with the nurse and asked her to inject for me. It turned out to be a good idea, because although she got the meds ready, she handed the needle over to me and made me inject it. I was a bit, what the....but she was really nice and encouraging, so that helped relax me a lot!

Thanks for the info on the meds mix you have had. I’ve heard of Gonal F, but haven’t used it before. Interesting that you’ve done a combo of both this and Menopur (googled as and can see they both contain FSH and LH, so do the same thing) I’ve never been offered it - did they say what the benefit of it is?

I’ve haven’t looked this closely at the amount of stims I’ve been given before but I’ve looked back and here‘a mine from my 3 fresh cycles:

Always had Menopur only, but in varying amounts:

- 1st fresh: 150IU only for 11 days

- 2nd fresh: 150IU for 10 days and 225IU for 2 days (went in for EC early)

- 3rd fresh: 150/225IU for 9 alternate days (again, went in early for EC)

On all cycles I’ve had Buserilin for 28 days with overlapping Menopur.

Interesting, the first was my best cycle were I got the better ‘quality’ (according to the old system my clinic use).

Thanks

Xxx

[Millbanks in reply to Downonthefarm]

No worries!! You’ve had enough going on ☺️Yes I bought some really small ice packs which were really helpful. You’re right that it just takes the edge off…

I really hate needles too and didn’t want to inject but I also wanted by husband to feel a bit more involved as it’s really all us isn’t it!

I love that the nurse made you do it! Genius!!

I am least informed about the stims part to be fair. I just go with they say but definitely noticed that Gonal-F and menopur together were our most successful.

You must be near OTD now? Wishing you all the luck in the world 🍀🍀🍀 xxx

[Downonthefarm in reply to Millbanks]

Yes, I’m a bit like that re the stims, I just go with what clinic suggest.

Thank you so much - OTD was Friday. I got a faint +ve, so they asked me to repeat it today. Another faint +ve (although less visible this time), so I’m very worried.

I’m hoping it’s not the end of the road for this cycle but I’m also realistic. I’m gutted really.

Xx

[Millbanks in reply to Downonthefarm]

Argh! It's so hard isn't it! Do you clinic to blood tests? I think that's the best way to know for sure. Also (sorry if this is a stupid question) are you using the same brand of tests for both? Sometimes different brands show up different amounts...I've got everything crossed for you xxx

[Downonthefarm in reply to Millbanks]

Yes it is, it’s a nightmare. I don’t know if they do blood tests, I’m going to ask them when I ring. Yes, I used the clinics test and an early detector test on Friday. Today I used the 2nd early detector test in the pack and then another brand I had in my drawer. The only thing that could have compromised the 2nd early detector test is that I took it out of it’s sealed pack on Friday, but I think there’s only a slim chance that it impacted (I’m clutching at straws really on that one I think!)

Xxx

[Millbanks in reply to Downonthefarm]

I really hope so!! Xx

[Millbanks in reply to Downonthefarm]

Hi lovely, did you manage to get your bloods done? Xx

[Downonthefarm in reply to Millbanks]

Hi pet,

I didn’t, no. It took us til after lunch to get through to the clinic, I was beside myself. By the time we got through, my husband had to do the call for me. They said not to do any more testing, which is good for me, because I find testing exhausting. They told him I was to go in and get a prescription for more meds. I’ve a viability scan on the first Wed in June, another 2 week wait. If I’m honest, I feel very scared - I can only see it as one day at a time.

Xxx

[Millbanks in reply to Downonthefarm]

Oh love, the testing is so mentally tiring - you poor thing. I think that sounds like a really wise plan. Just try and take it one day at a time as you say. Sending lots of love xx

[Millbanks in reply to Downonthefarm]

Hi lovely, hope you're doing ok - just wanted to send some love xxx

[Downonthefarm in reply to Millbanks]

Thanks for checking in, I’m doing ok, thanks pet. Still a bag of nerves, but trying not to think about it too much. Xxx

[Millbanks in reply to Downonthefarm]

Impossible not to! But I've got everything crossed for you xx

[RecipIVF]

Sending you lots of positives vibes 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻 Take care xx

[Iamtrying150]

Good luck 🤞🏼 really hope your 2ww has a positive outcome x

[MomaJoni]

I'm so sorry to hear that you and your husband have been through so much. I can understand the feeling of wanting to give up but you have come so far. I am 11 years into my infertility torture and every time I feel like I'm going to give up, I just remember how far I've come already.I will be keeping my fingers crossed for you that the 2WW goes quick and you get that positive test that you deserve.

xxx

[Downonthefarm in reply to MomaJoni]

Thank you for the positivity & good advice Moma-Joni, it’s really helpful. I hope you get your miracle.

Xxx