35 eggs none make it to blastocysts. Help.

[Itwillhappen]

Looking for similar stories and or advice.

Last two Ivf cycles we have collected 35 eggs each time. First time no fertilisation second time ICSI with 27 fertilised none making it to blastocysts.

I am 36 AMH 35. Moderate endometriosis with laparoscopy in March 2021 to clear it.

Have I come to the end of the road? Is there no hope for me having a child with my own eggs?

Help. Feeling worried. Xx

[Marisa32]

Have they checked the sperm for any and all issues including DNA fragmentation? If sperm all good then maybe you can try a protocol with less stims focusing on quality rather than quantity of eggs. Also maybe get karotype/genetic screen on you and partner to uncover any hidden issues.

[Itwillhappen in reply to Marisa32]

Thanks for your message. DNA fragmentation is the only one we haven’t done yet. All others are fine. Will look into that. We have a chat tomorrow with our Dr to see what the next plan is. I thought it might be long protocol. Have done short for the last two cycles. Thank you!

[Purpledoggy]

You're definitely not at the end of the road! It sounds like there is stuff to tweak and investigate

The first question is where the embryos are failing - if they all make it to d3 but then conk it out is more likely sperm, eg DNA fragmentation, whereas if they are conking out immediately after fertilisation then it is more likely egg quality. You can't test egg quality but you can definitely test for sperm DNA fragmentation. Egg quantity often comes at the expense of quality, and a lower dose stim aiming for 11-15 eggs may improve quality for you significantly without really compromising numbers. (In studies, the optimal number for pregnancy outcome is 11-15 eggs per collection depending on the study.) There are also some supplements that are great for quality, supported by scientific studies, and if you haven't already have a look into It Starts With The Egg for some suggestions. Even if sperm is the issue, it is not going to hurt to boost your eggs (at the worst supps just won't do much).

Don't give up just yet Talk to the clinic about lowering the stims significantly, and if sperm may be an issue DNA fragmentation testing. xx

[Itwillhappen in reply to Purpledoggy]

Wow thank you so much! I feel more optimistic. I have just ordered the supplements from it starts with the egg and will talk to my Dr tomorrow about sperm fragmentation.

All the best x

[soccerkt6]

Hi lovely

I second both of the suggestions above to have your partner's sperm checked out before going any further.

Also, the number of eggs that they're collecting each cycle is - as I'm sure you know - quite high. Have you been diagnosed with PCO or PCOS? If you have PCOS and aren't taking myo-inositol yet, I would consider that. It helps improve egg quality and can also improve insulin resistance (often a problem that goes hand-in-hand with PCOS).

And it's definitely not the end of the road! It mainly sounds like you both need to have some more tests done to see where the problem is occurring xxx

[Itwillhappen in reply to soccerkt6]

Thank you. I don’t have PCOS just endo. Had a lap done in April assume they would have said if I had PCOS 🤷‍♀️

Sounds like more testing for us. I don’t want this to be the end of the road.

All the best.

[Ivfgotadream]

I’d also look at changing protocol to natural or natural modified IVF clearly your high egg numbers are at the expense of egg quality so od be exploring trying a round where you get much much fewer eggs - less than 10 maybe even less than 5 x

[Itwillhappen in reply to Ivfgotadream]

Thank you. I have thought the high egg numbers could be compromising quality but also worried damage is done to egg quality from my Endo. I wondered if FS will want to try long protocol also 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

[Ladybugluck]

I second the note about the day the embryos are degenerating being an important clue here. Was it right after fertilization or after day 3 that they stopped maturing? This difference should point you toward sperm or egg quality, although I will say it seems shocking that you had such low fertilization the first round; I’d guess it’s a sperm issue but definitely need more testing! Also agree that 10-15 eggs per retrieval is ideal although there are many women who have success with more eggs. I’d look to do less stimulation next time.

[Itwillhappen]

Thanks yes seems like something we need to look into. First round we had 2 fertilised out of 36 one died off after day 3 one made it to a morula so day 4 on day 5. That round they said it was a binding issue between egg and sperm and ICSI would solve the problem. Second round 36 eggs 27 fertilised 2 morula day 5 the remainder didn’t make it to be frozen. It definitely seems something is stopping them

After day3 of developing into blastocysts.

I’m just so confused. Maybe we are looking at both egg and sperm quality 😣

[gianna83]

I think your clinic isn't doing something right.I was your age when i did ivf and i got 14 eggs-7 blastocysts-one baby.35 eggs is a lot,not all of them can be dodgy!Please ask for a dna fragmentation test and a fish test,preferably not at the clinic but in a reputable,independent laboratory.Can you please update us on what your doctor told you?i am intrigued.

[Itwillhappen in reply to gianna83]

Thanks. I know I have a high AMH of 35 (weird same number as egg collection) I have a zoom with him tomorrow as I’m going out of my mind. I will let everyone one know is thoughts and next steps for sure.

[Itwillhappen in reply to gianna83]

So the Dr said my eggs look dark and grainy so looks like my egg quality. He said traditional Chinese herbs and acupuncture for two months (have been doing acupuncture weekly for 3 months) and I think melatonin closer to cycle. Has also suggested the DNA fragmentation test for my fiancé.

Feel like a zombie.

[gianna83 in reply to Itwillhappen]

Did they suggest a change in protocol? I would ask for a second opinion if i were you.They sound weird. I am so sorry,love.

[Itwillhappen in reply to gianna83]

Not yet. I had a second opinion before the second cycle and that specialist want to treat me with hormone replacement (put me into menopause) for six months and then do another laparoscopy (had one one earlier in the year) none of that sounded appealing

[Maui2020]

Hey there. I second what some others have already said from experience. I also have high AMH and got 27 eggs from my most recent cycle. At my follow up I was told about 10 of them wouldn’t have been mature enough anyway and we resulted in 2 very poor quality blasts frozen on day 6. Of course they blamed my age (41) until I reminded them that a few months earlier, at a different clinic I had got 4 good quality day 5 blastocysts. This was based on a protocol that aimed for a maximum of 15 eggs and they kept me on very low stimulation.

Had we not had this reference point to compare they would have continued doing the same thing again.

You produce lots of eggs so I think there is definitely hope for your own eggs, based on all of the medical opinions I have been given. It’s worth exploring different protocols as you don’t fall within conventional patterns and data xx

[Itwillhappen]

Amazing. Thank you for sharing your experience with me 🙌 gives me the confidence I need.

[miracleneeded]

Hello! I hope I can make you feel a bit more positive. I’ve had a similar journey to you, produced LOADS of eggs, fertilisation was around 60-70% each time but I would only get low quality blasts, barely any to freeze. I did four rounds like this with disappointment after disappointment until we decided to change clinics and get a fresh opinion from a new doc.The new doc added growth hormone to my stim protocol to improve egg/embryo development and BAM - pregnant with twins first go and two great blasts in the freezer!!

I couldn’t believe it - if only one had worked maybe I would have thought it was a fluke but for both embryos to develop must mean there’s merit to the growth hormone?! And two left as well!

Docs will always tell you it’s egg quality because most of them are obgyns, make sure you look into the sperm dna too, it can result in low quality blasts too, especially if they all die off after day 3.

I would recommend a new doc & lab and try and get the growth hormone included. 💜

Good luck!

[Itwillhappen in reply to miracleneeded]

Wow! You must be over the moon and so relieved! My specialist is meant to be one of the best in Australia. He said to get on the herbs and then in a month we will talk about the protocol but I think he was talking about lowering stims further and said he doesn’t believe egg numbers matter 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️ I will definitely ask about human growth hormone. I think we are will to do a third round with him and then if there is no improvement we will be moving on.

He has asked partner for a DNA fragmentation test so that’s one good thing I guess.

Thank you so much for you message and I am so happy for you!! X