Advice regarding supplements and impl... - Fertility Network UK

Fertility Network UK

51,965 members57,465 posts

Advice regarding supplements and implantation issues

P2021 profile image
22 Replies

Hello everyone, I am after some advice if you don't mind, please.

This is a little bit about me. I am 35, my other half is 39. We have been TTC for 4 years and had 3 ISCI over past 2 years. Low sperm motility and poor respond to drugs are our issues. I have never been pregnant and never had positive tests nor frozen embryos.

First ICSI end up with 3 days transfer, 2nd one resulted two 5 days early blastocysts (both transferred). 3rd ISCI failed only a few weeks ago , again 2x 5 days blastocyst (5bb and 5bc) - both transferred and failed. All three cycles produced around 6 to 9 eggs, 3/4 of them were fertilized but only one or two got to day 3 or day 5. During last cycle, I was given max dose menopur of 450 and co q 10 - 200 mg three times a day.

My questions are:

I think there are some issues with implantation and has any one gone through any procedures to improve implantation such as embryo glue, endometrial scratch, etc.

I also think that my co-q 10 dose is much higher than recommended dose. I am wondering what dose do you guys take and ? should I also let my partner take to improve sperm quality (I have to say embryo quality improved in 3rd ISCI after co-q 10. not sure whether it's coincidence though)

Any other supplements would you guys recommend. I am currently on wellwomen preconception and co -q 10. husband also taking wellmen 'trying for baby supplement'.

Sorry for a long post. This platform is new to me and I went through all 3 failures without much supports. Only found out about this page over last few weeks and helped me to go through my darkest days. Many thanks to you guys.

I am currently in such a dark and depressed phase. Feels like wanting to give up and at the same time, feels like crying whenever seeing pregnant ladies or babies :(

Written by
P2021 profile image
P2021
To view profiles and participate in discussions please or .
Read more about...
22 Replies
soccerkt6 profile image
soccerkt6

Hi P

Welcome to the group. I'm so sorry you've had to go through all of those cycles with minimal support. I can absolutely relate to wanting to burst into tears every time I see babies and pregnant women. 😪

Just curious - has your husband had sperm dna fragmentation testing done or just a standard sperm analysis? Abnormal semen parameters (like low motility) can often indicate a problem with the sperm's dna. You can find out for sure if that's a problem by having your partner do a dna fragmentation test. Before you assume that the problem is with you, have your partner do a bit more investigation...

As for supplements: our clinic is normally pretty reserved about recommending stuff but they recommended Impryl for both myself and my husband. It has some pretty interesting studies behind it showing that men with fertility problems are twice as likely to father a child when taking it, and women with fertility problems are four times as likely to become pregnant when taking it. You aren't meant to take other strong antioxidants (like coq10) in combination with the Impry because they can negate its effects, so we were able to ditch a lot of our other supplements when we started it (though we both still take vitamin d, cod liver oil and magnesium). As with everything though, you'll need to take it for three months before you'll notice a difference.

There is definitely still lots of stuff to be done and investigated, so don't lose hope. Take the time you need to recover from the disappointment of your latest cycle and then you can start thinking about next steps. I'm rooting for you! xx

Koala365 profile image
Koala365 in reply to soccerkt6

That's interesting about not taking Impryl and Coq10 together. Can I ask where you found that information? I've been taking both and didn't realise that. Thank you

soccerkt6 profile image
soccerkt6 in reply to Koala365

Of course. I found it on the FAQ section of the Impryl website. Quote below:

"Impryl enables your body to provide all the natural antioxidant support you need.

We strongly discourage taking Impryl alongside strong direct antioxidants such as vitamin C, CoQ10, selenium and so on. These substances may induce ‘reductive stress’ that may negate the benefit of Impryl. Strong antioxidants have been shown to cause an increase of the sperm decondensation index (SDI), which is very bad for male fertility."

I've found the Fertilty Family website really excellent for describing how the supplement works. Basically, our bodies need an optimal balance of antioxidants in order to function correctly. Too few antioxidants lead to 'oxidative stress', but too many just tip the scales in the other direction and lead to 'reductive stress'. Both are bad for fertility. The problem with taking antioxidants in supplement form is that we don't know whether we're taking too many or too few. So Impryl solves that by providing the raw ingredients our bodies need to produce its own antioxidants in the correct amount.

Sorry if I sound like a sales pitch - I just really find the whole thing fascinating! xx

Koala365 profile image
Koala365 in reply to soccerkt6

Thanks so much! I will have a look at the website. I guess it definitely doesn't help that the Q10 I was taking had very high doses of vitamin c and vitamin e in it then either!

soccerkt6 profile image
soccerkt6 in reply to Koala365

It’s a minefield, isn’t it!? In any case though, it sounds like your second and third rounds were an improvement over your first, so something was helping! xx

P2021 profile image
P2021 in reply to soccerkt6

Thank you so much for your advice and useful info. We only did standard semen analysis and not have done DNA fragmentation test. I will definitely ask for it this time.

I initially thought the main issue was sperm quality, but in my last cycle, the embryo grades were average but they still didn't implant. That's why I end up thinking that the main issue might be implantation.

Do you have any idea about what'll be the treatment option if the fragmentation rate is high.

Regarding the Impry, this is the first time I have ever heard of it. I had a look at the website after your reply, yes it sounds promising :). many thanks for the info.

Lkc2015 profile image
Lkc2015

I think with supplements the book it starts with an egg is good for advice. Basically it’s folic acid vitamin d coq10 vitamin e omega 3 for women not sure for men as I knew would never get my husband to take a pile of pills so he got proxeed but he says it tastes horrible so maybe try impryl for him.

I notice all your cycles are fresh transfers. Are you getting blasts that are mature enough to freeze. I think IVF can take a lot out of your body so maybe 1 option could be doing a freeze all cycle giving you body a rest before you try a frozen cycle or if you get 2 blasts do one fresh one frozen? (Obviously it depends on grades of blasts) At 35 I don’t think you get much benefit from one double transfer vs 2 single transfers unless they are low grade.

P2021 profile image
P2021 in reply to Lkc2015

yes. you are right. Before my 3rd cycle, my consultant did advice me to transfer one and to freeze one. But when I got 5bb and 5bc, I was told that 5 bc won't be suitable to freeze. I can't bear the thought of having it wasted, so I let them transferred both. As the success rate is higher in fresh than frozen transfer, I am always scare that my embryos won't survive the thaw or quality will get worse after the thaw. I will def. think about that option if I have good number next time.

I don't how some people survive after they lost their babies or children. Whenever I think back, I always feel like I lost 5 babies :(.

if you are going through IVF, hope things are going well on your side. Many thanks for your advice.

Lkc2015 profile image
Lkc2015 in reply to P2021

I think it must differ clinic to clinic. I had 5 5day blasts 1xab 1xbb 1xbc and 2xcc . Ab was a failed fresh transfer rest were frozen consultant was happy they were all ok to freeze and says if good enough to freeze they’ve got a fair chance. Currently 12 weeks pregnant after my first FET.

I found the FET so much nicer than fresh cycle as I was constantly worrying about something- how many follicles them would they grow them how many eggs then how many would fertilize then would they make blasts. I think it was very emotionally stressful and physically stressful. Felt tired and run down from the meds and egg collection. Noticed the months after my nails were really weak and I had a ridge that you get when you’re really unwell. In contrast with FET I could prepare the month before with calming stuff baths face masks meditation cut caffeine and alcohol and then month of FET felt much better and it’s just timing ovulation get date for transfer then go for transfer. I don’t know how much is in it re success rates but I think there’s not much in it.

Hope you work something out. It’s such a stressful process. Each part I always think I can’t do this and want to stop but we keep going 💪 hopefully next time is your time x

P2021 profile image
P2021 in reply to Lkc2015

congratulations on your pregnancy. I really needed to hear the success stories. Many thanks for that.Yes I think that's the difference between the clinic. My clinic won't keen to freeze bc embryos I think. But I will definitely be pushing them next time. Good luck with rest of the pregnancy and please don't forget to share the scan and baby pics. :)

Lkc2015 profile image
Lkc2015 in reply to P2021

Good luck with the next round. Hope this time is better.

Millbanks profile image
Millbanks

Hi lovely, sorry to hear you’ve had a rough time. After our 3rd failed frozen transfer we had an ERA test done which showed we needed a whole extra day of progesterone before transfer. So we were 24 hours out. This might be something worth considering but this is only relevant for frozen transfers.

I take ubiquinol instead of coq10. It’s a more refined form and much easier to absorb so supposedly better. I saw a marked improvement in embryo quality after taking it. I also got my husband to take that, omega and vitamin D - alongside a high quality male supplement which included selenium and zinc.

There’s also an immunology panel that you can have checked. This looks at your immune system and if it’s working overtime and attacking “foreign bodies”

There’s definitely a lot that can still be looked in to so don’t lose hope xx

P2021 profile image
P2021 in reply to Millbanks

ERA is a very great idea. I just goggled what it involves. I hope I will have some frozen on next cycle so that I can have ERA test.I always worry about taking too much supplements for no apparent reasons. Also all the instructions say not to take with other supplements. Now we both are taking wellmen/women preconception and co q 10. will definitely get some other supplements before I try again.

When you think about it, don't you think it's very funny that we are focusing on such a healthy lifestyle with lots of supplement. Then in developing countries, most of the undernourished ladies have no problem getting pregnant nearly every year. Life is just note fair. Oh well, human fertility is still an area of misery.

Good luck with your treatment cycle.

Koala365 profile image
Koala365

My first cycle wasn't great . 5 eggs, only 3 fertilised properly and only one almost just about made it to blastocyst but then arrested on day 5. We were therefore unable to freeze or test anything. I think spent 2 months taking Impryl, Co enzyme Q10, Omega 3 for pregnancy, Vitamin D and DHEA. The next IVF was greatly improved egg qualitywise. I was able to transfer 2 early blastocysts on day 5 but still no pregnancy. IVF 3 I tried the gentle IVF which resulted in 3 eggs but only 1 fertilised but was excellent quality but they decided on a Day 2 transfer to give it best possible conditions but again no pregnancy. I think the supplements have helped just not enough for me....at least not yet! I hadn't heard that you shouldn't take Impryll and Q10 together though as the lady above said - my consultant was happy for me to take both.

P2021 profile image
P2021 in reply to Koala365

Hi Koala365, I am so sorry to hear that you are also going through such a tough time. I hope we both have success at the end of our journeys. Yes, Impryl, omega 3 and vit D are definitely on my list to try this time. I do not have much idea about DHEA. I will do a bit more research. I hope we won't have any side effects from taking too much supplements. By the way, DHEA looks quite expensive.

Koala365 profile image
Koala365 in reply to P2021

Thank you. It's so hard and depressing isn't it. I don't know if I can put myself through it again but I must if I want a baby and relatively soon as the clock has nearly ticked out for me age wise! I think it is even harder for us all going through this during lockdown and the COVID pandemic than it would otherwise be. I wish you all the best with the rest of your journey. I hope and pray we both get our babies and soon xx

Purple276 profile image
Purple276

Hi P,

Sounds like you've been through so much and completely understand how you feel now. After 5 embryos you just really expect 1 to have worked.

I finished my third fresh round with another BFN and worried about implantation issues. I had a number of blood tests that my clinic called Implantation Level 1 but basically included checking any clotting issues, thyroid, vitamin D etc and found a couple of things like I don't absorb folic acid and that and vit b deficiency could lead to implantation issues. Luckily my vitamins already have folate in a form that I can absorb so I've concluded it's my eggs that probably have genetic abnormalities. I'm 39 now and ttc for 5 years.

Maybe chat to your consultant about any tests that could help - also agree looking into your other half sperm is worth considering too.

I felt totally crushed by the last round and have a difficult decision of what to do next. Being able to talk through with a friend who also went through IVF helped, so did being able to go swimming again! It's totally personal what is right for you though and talk through with your OH and do whatever can help you move forward. You are incredible to get this far so wishing you all the best in the next steps of your journey xxx

P2021 profile image
P2021 in reply to Purple276

Dear Purple, thank you so much for your encouragement. Yes, I felt the same. I cried myself to sleep for a week and I don't think my mental health is back to normal yet. People say that 'this too will pass' or 'life goes on'. But I do not think that those will be the case for me. At least, not yet.

I am so sorry to hear that you are going through the same. Well done for able to go back to your hobbies and staying strong.

I had most of the blood tests you mentioned above except vit D and clotting. I will ask for those this time. I also think that my egg quality is not good. But not sure whether my clinc has facility to do any genetic test.

When I started my ivf journey, I thought it'll be straight forward even after the first cycle was failed. I think I went through all 3 cycles like a driving test and thinking I'll pass at one point and not asked too many questions or do much research. Now I am thinking of taking at least 4-5 months before giving it ago again.

If you don't mind me asking, are you going to try again soon? If you are, I wish you all the best and I am rooting for you xxx.

Purple276 profile image
Purple276 in reply to P2021

I know exactly what you mean. We always said we'd only do 3 rounds as the emotional and financial impact has really taken it toil but really believed that would be enough. It's like we're grieving for the family we thought we'd have by now so definitely okay to take some time, have any tests that will give you piece of mind and explore your options.

Amazingly we have a frozen embryo so just weighing up if to transfer that as a final chance or to do another fresh round but I get very few eggs so high risk of none to transfer or just one which again will be abnormal and not implant. Also exploring donor eggs as an alternative but lots to factor in so think some breathing space is needed.

Good luck and hope you get some answers over the next couple of months which will help xxx

P2021 profile image
P2021 in reply to Purple276

OMG! It's so nice to hear that you still have a frozen little one :). Yes, give your body a rest before you decide next step. All the best !!!!!

Jumpppy profile image
Jumpppy

I was on 333mg/3x daily of coq10 (ubiquinol), so 1000mg daily - that's pretty standard for women in the US. So 600mg isn't a high dose. My husband was on 400mg. (I don't know anything about Impregnyl interactions-seems like a UK supplement).

I agree with the posts below male factor likely needs more investigation. Has he seen an endocrinologist for a full work up including thyroid, testosterone etc.? In our experience, while we still have MF, endocrinology investigations found a number of issues that once fixed gave us a much better chance. Remember most of the REs you deal with are specialists in female endocrinology not male.

Some women will always be in the 8 egg range no matter their age etc. Higher stims may not impact the number for you (or work better - I'm in that camp). 8 mature eggs at 32-35 if sperm is OK and you are OK, is often enough. Implantation could be an issue, but if you aren't getting high quality blasts it's hard to say.

If I were you I'd follow the MF investigation ASAP before you get too much older (and it becomes both of you).

P2021 profile image
P2021 in reply to Jumpppy

You are absolutely right. I had my endocrine blood tests but he didn't have any apart from standard semen analysis . We were told that although he had low motility, his sperm count is normal + as we are doing ISCI, they do not think that he need more tests. I did ask about possible implantation issue after 2nd failure. But like you said, we were explained that it was failed most likely due to the embryo quality rather than implantation issue.

I was thinking the same regarding stimulation. I had 9 eggs with 450 and 8 eggs with 300. Hardly any difference.

As most of the embryos (5 out of 7) stopped growing on day 4, I think the main issue is the MF now.

Thanks a lot for very helpful advice. Now I know what to do next.

You may also like...

Implantation failure advice please

had 3 failed ivf cycles using my own eggs- all failed to grown blastocysts. Used donor egg cycle in...

Implantation Issues

other 3 were implantation failures. Following the 2nd and 3rd transfer, we went through KIR testing...

Implantation question / issue?

Anyway, my question is about implantation, 4/5 days after transfer day I had horrendous pain (early...

Recurrent implantation failure - any success stories or recommendations?

had 5 good quality blastocyst embryos transferred now (in 3 cycles) and all failed to implant. I've...

first ivf failure - embryo didn't implant - no fertility issues. help :(

Tested negative every day since day 5 so appears that the little guy didn't even implant at all....