Hi all, I've had 5 good quality blastocyst embryos transferred now (in 3 cycles) and all failed to implant. I've had hysteroscopy, endometrial scratch and tested for antiphopholipid syndrome. No problems with egg collection, sperm is good quality. All fertilisation and embies recorded on time lapse and development is ok. I'm under 40, good BMI, non smoker. Bled early on previous cycles but was a bit better this time.
Has anyone had success after so many implantation failures? Or is there anything major I'm missing? My clinic doesn't recommend glue. Are there any other investigations I should be thinking of? My clinic seemed to say there wasn't anything to look into any after my last failed cycle, I haven't had my debrief for this one yet.
I'm just wondering if there's much point in doing more cycles, everything seems perfect but it's still not happening and there wouldn't be anything different next time so I can't see why it would work (unless it was a random blind bit of luck)?
Would love to hear from anyone who was successful in similar circumstances and what made the difference for you- if you know.
Thanks x
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I had iui before ivf and bled the day before otd. This led to increased progesterone being given to me. Were you given an increase in progesterone? From what other posters have said it is worth pushing for. For my last fet I had 3 pessaries a day and a lubion injection, resulting in a bfp.
So nice to hear a positive - congratulations. They have upped my progesterone each cycle but not quite to the level you were on. I'm annoyed they didn't just give me the max this cycle in hindsight. The cynical bit of me thinks they hold back so there's something they can say they'll change if we do another cycle, but then the failed cycles screw up their succesd stats so I don't know. I'll definitely have a chat about progesterone in my debrief. Thanks.
Yes, progesterone is crucial! Also, if you would do your FETs in natural cycle, you might want to try Letrozol to boost your own hormones. As for me I had also five failures before the sixth one sticking, which was when I was given both Letrozol before FET (5 days from 3rd day of period) and Progesterone 100mg x 3 vaginally a day for 8 weeks! Now I'm 16w3d and have felt my beanie kick me once in a while since two days ago 😍😍😍
My clinic gave me progesterone to take as pesseries and injections. I had a chemical pregnancy then this one (currently 35 weeks pregnant). I had the killer cells blood test and my levels were raised. I kinda knew this as I teach and my immune system is so strong - barely pick up anything f from the c children. Anyway I tested positive for latent TB so couldn't have the normal drug to lower the killer cells. So took a drug that transplant patients take so that their bodies don't reject.
Who knows if that's what has worked this time? But I hope you find something that works.
Hi. It was Tacrilomus. There were no side effects.
I ended up in hospital over night on a morphine drip 3 days after transfer due to poss burst follicle - nothing to do with the tacrilimus but my body surprisingly held on to this one. And I get to meet him just after Christmas.
There is a lot of debate about the science of home remedies but mainly because there hasn’t been proper research. Drinking pomegranate juice and eating pineapple (including the core) and Brazil bits is believed by some to improve implantation. I was so desperate I did this after egg collection and up until test date. It made me feel like I was doing everything I could and made me feel like I was making a positive contribution even if it’s not proven they are all still healthy. I think because if this I felt a lot more positive on my second round and I got my BFP and now at 23 weeks. I also had x3 progesterone tablets a day after the transfer so make sure you get that. Best of luck xx
But don't eat pineapple if you took aspirin or any blood thinner cos then it's double.
Brazil nuts are good but for the dosage it depends on if you have thyroid disorder or not.
My GP suggests not to take pomegranate cos it can increase the good effect of supplements you're taking or it can annul the good effect, so it's unpredictable she said so better stay away and just take the supplements e.g. pre natal, CoQ10, etc. for improving egg quality, for thickening endo line, etc.
obviously it goes without saying that people should do their own research and listen to their own medical advisors as they will give advice based on individual circumstances. im Just saying what worked for me and my drs / consultants had no concerns 🙂
sure, my comment wasn't meant for you but for the OP cos here it's not like FB to tag the person to give comment to and I just put reply on your comment cos what I was going to say is related to what you commented, didn't mean any offense
I kinda like your reply GPmum so the pineapple, is it none at all or just a little if taking blood thinners and aspirin?
Had a gynae session where they plan putting me on aspirin and blood thinners when I start my FET. They're concerned about my blood pressure being high and I've been planning on pineapple once I get the transfer
I must admit in the early days of my current 2ww, I took 100mg cardioaspirin as prescribed by my RE in the morning and I ate few pieces of pineapple without the core in late night so there were at least 12 hours in between, but I did that only 1/2 days tops, afterwards I only took the aspirin. The thing is I'm cleared from having any blood clotting issue and I have rather low blood pressure in general.
If you're prescribed both aspirin and blood thinner, then you have something else I don't have I wonder so maybe ask your clinic if you can eat pineapple or not and with/out the core or not when you have these 2 cos yeah you don't want to have your blood too thin either or anything messing up with your blood pressure.
I did have consultation with a TCM who also knows western medicine and she gave me Huang Gi, and some Chinese tea (you can google the former what it has) plus I had 50mg aspirin and L-arginin to take before the FET to improve blood flow especially to the uterus to receive the embryos. In one point cos I started only with aspirin n 6g L-arginin at the beginning and when I started the 2 TCM herbs also with aspirin n 3g L-arginin, when I had blood test, I noticed there's more blood in the bandaid. Unlike before, that would've been only a small spot. So it's a sign that my blood was kind of thinner than before cos of these 2 TCM herbs and aspirin n L-arginin. To be honest I really think they helped but we do have to be careful with the dose of these things. Don't take these TCM herbs after FET n I even stopped them 1 day before FET especially if they contain astralagus (you can google these things).
Hope43 has a good idea. Actually my GP prescribed me Medrol (a generic corticosteroids and lighter than prednisone) 4mg daily from 5 days before FET for a month cos this dose isn't harmful for you nor embryo while we're waiting for test result to know if I had ANA or not cos it's + I have slightly high TPO
No, not at all. Will add to the list, thank you! I've had a rough day at work with a deep sadness and heartache hidden from everyone but threatening to pop up at any point, reading all these messages and suggestions has really helped.
Sorry to hear these news, me too I had 2x implantation failures so I know what you feel.
We unfortunately have to be our own advocate.
So get your full thyroid panel and NK cells level checked cos there can be the reason.
I after pushing my doctors, found out I have Hashimoto and 1 type of ANA (anti nuclear antibody) so I have 2 autoimmune disorders, and even not yet checked for NK cells.
Get also checked for any blood clotting disorder e.g. MTHFR mutation, anti cardiolipin antibody, anti coagulant lupus antibody (something like that). And even if you don't have any, insists your clinic to prescribe you aspirin for your 2ww cos my GP also said if there's any level of coagulation in the very miniscule blood vessels, these don't show in blood tests.
For progesterone, then ask different doctors e.g. GPs to prescribe you ultragestan so it can be put vaginally and so you can increase your dose yourself if the clinic insists not to put you on max dose that's safe.
For supplements, follow the book "it starts with the eggs". I found it helps me to improve my egg quality (also sperm in fact) even tho we need IVF due to male factor cos I'm already 42.5.
For the tests I suggested, I found them from book by Zita West, IVF clinic in London so if you can also go there for some tests, that's good. There are also complementary therapies suggested in the book.
I followed most of the suggestions in these 2 books (3 including Zita's book of IVF Diet) and for the 1st time I have promising positive result on home prego test so am crossing fingers for me and baby dust to you!
Wow, so much useful information. Thanks so much for taking the time to share- I'm going to read up.
One thing I did want to check was how much I can ask for further investigations on NHS? I had my initial cycle on NHS but my CCG only funds one so our last two have been self funded. Can I separate these investigations from actual IVF treatment and get them requested by my GP or does it have to be through my clinic which will charge? We've spent so much money already and it really doesn't seem fair when it's investigating a health issue.
Hi Jane, no prob, glad to share. I live in continental EU country n never lived in the UK except for my brief student life so have no idea, but just to warn you that maybe you have to privately fund some if not all of these investigations cos even me, in a western developed EU country with generous social system, I had to go to lots of doctors to prescribe me the tests to get my answers for 2x implantation failures.
Cos my RE is only willing to do the basic IVF without doing further investigation and her only answer is just age but without doing further tests to find out if there's any underlying issue in my body for example.
So after going to lots of doctors suggested in FB group where I live, I finally found out that I have autoimmune disorder so Hashimoto and then 1 type of ANA = anti nuclear antibody so it seems my own antibodies are attacking my thyroid and most likely my 2x embryos!
I think you may be better have a complementary health insurance that also covers at least partially complementary therapies like acupuncture, osteo/chiropractice, etc. as you'll need those as supporting therapies cos for example after I found out I have Hashimoto, I consulted homeotherapist who's also a western GP, then a complementary therapy by a reflexologist, then herbal meds from a certified herbalist besides the western meds.
The IVF book by Zita West is having comprehensive tips about the complementary therapies and what kind of investigations to ask the doctors to test so it's worth the investment and it's costing definitely less than 30 pounds if I remember well.
It's really an exhausting journey, physically, emotionally and financially!
No, thank you. Will read up now before going into debrief/ planning appointment. Unfortunately we're in Devon so I'm not sure we're quite at the cutting edge of things but I'm going to investigate and press for them to think about all options.
Hi, I am sorry for your BFNs. I am no medical expert but the one thing I do know is there is sometimes just an element of luck.. and I know loads of people who it hasn't worked some rounds and worked others. I know someone who had 7 rounds before they got their BFP - with their worst embryos.. and someone who had 9 rounds before they got their BFP but then had two babies from rounds 9 and 10. Its really hard to get your head around it but I just wanted to say dont give up completely xx
Have you tried an ERA to get the correct timing for FET? Also more thorough blood clotting issues from st Mary's hospital like pay or just take clexane to cover your bases? Progesterone levels...hopefully that helps xx
Hey, we had those exact tests and everything was 'perfect'. We were told 'unexplained' for years until I looked up NK cells. My first clinic doesn't agree with it, that's why I went to Dr Thum at the Lister to test for NK cells and immunology.
Found out I have elevated NK cells and this could be the reason pregnancies are not sticking and IVF failing. So for the first time in years I was told there's an actual problem.
Have you had your iron levels checked? Also look into Baby aspin, not sure if it definitely helped me but that’s what I taking when I got my BFP xxx hope this helps. Jen
I’m glad people have said look at your progesterone as that was my first thought. My clinic refuse to as they don’t believe it makes any difference 😡
Re the pineapple thing, I’ve read a few things about being careful not to have too much at certain times.
I had 5 blastocysts transferred over 3 cycles and only one stuck (but found out last week baby has not grown any further 💔). Not everyone gets a sticky one in their first few cycles, some of us aren’t as lucky so quickly so I say don’t give up hope yet, and definitely get private tests in to as many things as you can as if nothing else it’ll put your mind at rest a bit.
Also this time, unlike before, I took the week of transfer off and chilled out at home rather than working, so I don’t know if that made any difference at all, but My two friends who had babies from IVF took that week off too on their successful cycles.
I am so sorry to hear about your experience. I totally understand how frustrating it is! Have you considered an ERA test and asked your clinic to check your progesterone before your transfers? Have you tried acupuncture? You are a fighter. Don't give up. Stay positive. Sending you lots of luck and baby dust!!! X
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