Advice for recurring implantation failure and low AMH

[Blue2006]

Hi,

I'm currently wondering what to do next and in need of some advice and help. My final round of NHS funding has come to an end.

Cycle 1- 5 eggs, 4 embryos made to 5 day blast , freeze all cycle due to feeling bad from the meds. 4 singular FET , two positive tests quickly ending with bleeds, other two FET negative tests.

Cycle 2- Higher dose of meds , 3 eggs , 2 embryos, double 3DT didn't make to test day.

Has anyone any advice on what tests I could ask for ? Thinking already about the NK cell testing.

Has anyone any positive experiences of mild IVF ? Don't know what to do next.

Thanks

[Music1]

I would advice getting your thyroid tested and antibodies. I keep having implantation failure and when they finally included Predisolone (steriod tablets 20mg) into the final attempt with 2 FET left I got pregnant. When I mentioned 'could it be my thyroid or NKC' they laughed at me, but when my thyroid and antibodies came back so high, they cancelled my transfer almost immediately as they said the antibodies would attack the embryo. Wishing I'd had this tested 6 ivf attempts ago. Wishing you all the best x

[Blue2006 in reply to Music1]

Thanks for your response. As I will be self funded now I have booked an appointment with my GP to see what tests I can get there before choosing my next clinic .

Thyroid and antibodies .... is this something the GP could do ?

I’m looking at going to Coventry for NK cells testing . But it’s too soon for me to go yet .

[Music1 in reply to Blue2006]

Yes the GP could test your Thyroid TSH no problem but the antibodies TPO (Thyroid peroxidase antibody) is important as I believe that prevented implantation, and as soon as I got pregnant I think the antibodies attacked it as a foreign object. The clinic agreed. They said they didn't do the 'Thyroid test' as a work up as it costs extra (£60), but personally I think they don't mind if it fails first time as most go back again and the clinic gets more money etc. I only had one chance left so I tried to rule out everything. Wish I'd known about it 7 years ago. It really has taken me this long to figure things out x

[Prayingforafamily in reply to Music1]

Did your gp test for the antibodies?

[Music1 in reply to Prayingforafamily]

No actually I wasn't registered with a GP, I was at a private ivf clinic. They said I didn't look like I needed it, but we insisted and said we would pay £60? as we wanted to 'rule things out'. I do get my TSH (thyroid levels) checked by the GP, but they don't test antibodies anymore as they say 'when you have them in your system you will always have them'. However, if you know you have them, you can get steroid tablets that may suppress these antibodies and give IVF a better chance for implantation and staying pregnant. I do believe this was the 'game changer' for me. I think if your TSH (thyroid) is high maybe they look at your antibodies to see if that could be why, although I'm not certain.

[Prayingforafamily in reply to Music1]

Thanks so much for this. I have just had bloods taken by gp for thyroid. So await results. I have implantation issues and have 1 embryo left, I am so scared of having a transfer and it not working again that I am trying to rule out as many possible issues as I can.

[Music1 in reply to Prayingforafamily]

Best to get it ruled out. I was on my last FET as well so I completely understand.

If you have TSH higher than 1.5 then I personally wouldn't recommend you go for ivf. My ivf clinic said it needed it to be lower than 1 to start and to get Levothyroxine. If you have antibodies I would recommend going completely gluten free, and have 2-3 brazil nuts a day (to keep antibodies down). May consider taking 1 baby aspirin daily when you start ivf until the end of 2 ww, or asking for clexane (blood thinning injections). See how you go with results etc, and you can always pm me for suggestions or at least things that worked for me on my final attempt. Prednisolone (steriod tablets 20mg) I believe really played a part with helping implantation etc. Wishing you all the best x

[Prayingforafamily in reply to Music1]

Thanks so much, this is really helpful. I had Brazil nuts and baby aspirin on last cycle ( along with everything else). Do you think they would do steroids if requested ... or would be need to be tested first ( self funded)

[Music1 in reply to Prayingforafamily]

Not sure to be honest. Depends where you get the thyroid results. You could tell the clinic that that the GP suggested there were high TPO antibodies after testing. It was the clinic that suggested and put me on them. I also did the pineapple core thing for 5 days inc day of transfer, and a glass of pom juice daily for 10 days. The things we do. Try and get the tests done if poss. With the amount we spend on ivf and everything else it's worth the £60 ish. Everything crossed for you x

[Music1 in reply to Prayingforafamily]

You may want to checkout:

thyroid.org/patient-thyroid...

[Prayingforafamily in reply to Music1]

Thanks. I had bloods taken yesterday at the doctors for my thyroid after I requested it so will see what they come back at x

[Music1 in reply to Prayingforafamily]

Hope they come back negative with low TSH for you x

[Rainbowhope in reply to Music1]

Hi Music 1. Thanks for all this advice. I'm in the same boat as Al3xbaines78. I found your advice most helpful.

[Music1 in reply to Rainbowhope]

I don't feel I can advise, as I'm not professionally informed on these things. However, I'm more than happy to share my experience and what worked/ didn't work for me. I've been on a 7 year rollercoaster and wouldn't wish my journey on anyone. If I can offer suggestions or you want someone to listen just pm me. x

[Rainbowhope in reply to Music1]

I had repeated implantation failure. 2 fresh rounds and 1 frozen. I have low amh and endometriosis complete with a 2 cm chocolate cyst on my right ovary. They won't remove it for fear of damaging my already low ovarian tissue. In Jan 2019 and Feb 2019 they found two cysts on my left ovary. Moreover I had low follicles on both occasions so on have been able to start ivf. I had NK Cells tested with Doherty and Warw8ckshire hospital. My test results came low both times. They professor described this situation as a "head scratcher". No real advice except don't use aspirin, have a scratch (although the evidence suggests this makes no difference whatsoever) and low NK Cells is better that high (apparently). We have made the difficult decision to move on to DE. But I am going to call my gp tomorrow and ask for my ANA test done. My TSH came back normal but I will explore ANA before my donor transfer.

[Music1 in reply to Rainbowhope]

I had a chocolate cyst on one ovary and cyst on the other which they removed or drained during my lap. When my AMH was tested again (already being low) it had fallen even lower. I wonder why they suggest no using baby aspirin. It helped blood flow to improve my lining and I'm still recommended to take 1 daily now by the midwife. By the way my ANA test came back negative shortly before the thyroid test, and yet I did still have these thyroid antibodies when they tested. Explore everything before you try donor eggs that way you can say you've done everything you could. When I first used donor eggs that were (5AA blasts) and still failed to implant I knew something was up with me, and not due to the embryos. Wishing you all the best x

[Rainbowhope in reply to Music1]

This makes me nervous. I am really hoping donor eggs are the answer for me. Are u pregnant with donor eggs or your own? I really thought my NK Cells would be high and thus would be the answer but it hasn't been. My thyroid is normal as far as I know. I need to test my ANA. That's all I ca think of doing

[Music1 in reply to Rainbowhope]

Sorry, didn't mean to make you feel like that. I am pregnant with donor eggs. 2 failed but 1 implanted. Remember even donors have diff quality eggs.

[Rainbowhope in reply to Music1]

Don't apologise. I am happy to talk about this and get advice from someone that's been here. I'm inspired by you. Thank God it's worked for you. What did u do differently for it to work on your third go? I'm not using anything except pregncare tablets and extra iron and vit c. I'm having acupuncture. Starting yoga next week and going to find somewhere to do meditation.

[Music1 in reply to Rainbowhope]

Differently: Daily clexane (blood thinning injections) instead of daily baby aspirin. 20mg of Predisolone (steriod tablets daily), went completely gluten free, had to be on Levothyroxine tablets (increasing in dose) until THS fell below 1. Clexane & steriods started at same time as other ivf meds.

Continued everything till end of 2ww and got BFP - clinic recommended I continue with steroids, clexane and other ivf meds till end of week 12 to give baby best possible chance. Addition of Lubion injections (liquid progesterone) after 2ww in case my progesterone levels dropped.

Things I did the same:

2 Vit D tablets in morning

Pregnacare daily

3 brazil nuts

Pineapple core for 5 days including day of transfer and after

Daily glass of pom juice for maybe a week or 2 weeks?

This is not my recommendation- just my experience and what I did this time. x

[Rainbowhope in reply to Music1]

Thanks for all of this amazing detail. Can u do me one last favour and PM me which clinic you were with?

[Georgie17]

I have had multiple implantation failures. Currently waiting to have a hysteroscopy. I've also had nk cells test and thyroid so do recommend having those done. I'll also be on steroids again if the hysteroscopy goes ok and I can proceed to my 6th ivf attempt.definitely worth doing all the tests before you try again. Good luck

[Blue2006 in reply to Georgie17]

Hi Georgie , sorry to bombard you with questions ....

How did you find the NK cell test and where did you have it done ?

Did you IVF clinic recommend the hysteroscopy and is there cost ?

Thanks and good luck .

[Georgie17 in reply to Blue2006]

I think this was a blood test. (It was a while ago and I've had so many tests that it all merges into one after a while). I live in the south east so went to a hospital in london to have the test done. If you are based this way, let me know and I can find the the exact name of the hospital. My consultant did recommend we try the hysteroscopy. I have issues wih adhesions and we think this might be whats causing the recurrent failures. I am able to get this done as an nhs patient but I will be private once I do my next ivf round.

[Blue2006 in reply to Georgie17]

Thanks , but I’m not from that area .

Would dread to think how much it would be privately funded .

[Georgie17 in reply to Blue2006]

I did pay about £150 for the nk cells test. Good luck with it all

[Kaylon]

Following post as I'm in the same boat. Currently on 2ww and taking steroids and blood thinners this time after repeated implantation failure. My clinic never tested my thyroid levels though. Good luck

[Blue2006 in reply to Kaylon]

I asked my clinic for steroids but they declined without me having the testing done. Seems different clinics have different rules . Good luck , hope you get you BFP .

[gemmy999]

Hi I just wanted to comment in the NK cell test as I see you have asked questions about it and I have also had re implantation failure after 3 NHS cycles and now going private. I recently had my second NK cell test. It’s a biopsy similar to the scratch, if you have experienced that? My test has come back low. Waiting for the second result to compare. I think they only treat high results but waiting for phone consultation. Good luck x

[Blue2006 in reply to gemmy999]

Hi,

Thanks for your reply . Could I ask what Happens after you have the biopsy ? Is there another biopsy after that and what are the time scales ?

Thanks . Good luck to you too . X

[gemmy999 in reply to Blue2006]

Hi, they offer two biopsies as they like to compare the results. You have to book your app 7/10 days after ovulation. And the second one would be done the following month at the same time. The results are 4/6 weeks following each biopsy. I think it’s worth having. X