Treatment in Scotland: GCRM v GRI??

Hi ladies,

i'm new here, and looking to learn from you all.

I was about to start my IVF journey with GRI (paid for privately, as not eligible for NHS funding) but they've now cancelled all new treatments due to covid and cant say when that'll change. However, GCRM is still accepting new patients. But whereas GRI would normally give you a consent appt in ~2weeks, GCRM says it'll be 4 weeks for a consultation then 10-12 weeks after that for the consent appt. GCRM will also be more expensive.

Does anyone have experience of these clinics they could share? Or any thoughts on whether I should hold out for GRI to start treatment again, or sign up to a definite 4 mth wait with GCRM?

Thanks!

[try2020]

Hi!We had a fertility assessment and consultation with GCRM end of October 2020, advised there would be a wait of 2 months before they would do consents and start the process, we haven't heard anything from them yet. In the meantime we decided we wanted to do pgt-a (as I am 39) and only GRI do it so had a consultation with them in Nov and was told we'd do the cycle in march as pgt-a has to be booked in with the embryologists, did consent appointment in Dec. If we hadn't been doing pgt-a I think we would have been starting treatment about now, but of course just heard that they are not doing new cycles due to no anaesthetists...I got the impression that the delay won't be as bad as last year as other staff are not being redeployed and all other procedures continue as normal. We heard that last time a lot of NHS patients went private and that is why GCRM are now taking longer. I think you may still be quicker with GRI if GCRM are saying 4 months.....

[try2020 in reply to try2020]

Also if you were about to start then you'd be one of the first to go ahead when the restriction is lifted on anaesthetics, which I imagine will happen once we are past the worst of this covid wave 🤞

[Hidden in reply to try2020]

Thanks for replying! Yes, hopefully it's shorter this time, but it is frustrating that we've no idea how long it might be this time (I realise they seem clueless too, but even knowing when they'll review it would help. As would putting a statement on the website that says something other than 'we're fully open'.....). The number of new cases seems to be dropping in GGC, so hopefully things will change 🙏 Wishing you so much luck with your treatment in March! x

[try2020 in reply to Hidden]

Thank you 🧡 and good luck to you too! Just wondering, are you married to an Aussie with that name? 😂

[Kyell2]

It’s a difficult choice but I would go with GCRM. I think because GRI are part of the NHS that they will be slower to restart and even then they will have a backlog.

I have used both. I started privately with GRI but found them massively inflexible. They wouldn’t even discuss letting me use the donor I wanted because it didn’t come from the Center they wanted to work with.

I went to GCRM and they listened to what I wanted and throughout treatment with them I felt that I always had a say in my treatment. I was successful with them last year and although they weren’t perfect I felt looked after and it was worth the extra costs xx

[Hidden in reply to Kyell2]

Thanks for replying - that's really useful to know that you found them inflexible. I know they're having staffing issues, but I've found it frustrating that I called like 25x over the course of a week and never got through to someone who could help....In fairness, when someone did get back to me they were lovely, but it sucked to find out about them cancelling things through another person's post rather than something direct from them.

With GCRM, did you find you had any/many unexpected costs? I've found it a bit confusing to follow their costs compared to GRI. Like there's the meds charge, but also a 'private prescription fee' and 'drug delivery cost'. So presumably I pay all of those...? I'll call and get them to spell it out, just interested in whether you generally found more hidden costs with GCRM!

[Kyell2 in reply to Hidden]

The costs are made very clear before you go ahead and they talk you through each of them before a treatment. I always found the nurses/reception staff lovely and very upfront about any payments.

The private prescription fee is a bit of fee for no reason but I didn’t pay it because I used the clinics drug supplier. You can pay £75 to take your prescription to Asda etc to see if you can get the medication cheaper but when I priced it, stork (who GCRM use) were as competitive and it was so much easier to get the drugs sent to GCRM and then collect them directly.

I paid GCRM directly for my first IUI, after that I decided to use an Access fertility package through GCRM

Which covered all treatment and I just paid for the meds. Happy to answer any other questions you think of by PM if you have any 😊 x

[Tnthketnf]

Hi

I don't have experience with GCRM. I have only had one failed cycle with ACS in GRI in the middle of the pandemic.

My experience has not been great. I don't doubt that staff know their job and that they mean well. However with NHS you have absolutely no control in what happens and when. There is never any time to ask any questions. Everything takes a million times longer than it should. In my view if someone is paying for treatment they would be better off with an independent clinic where you can have more of a say on when and what happens. Unfortunately in Scotland there's only one . This would me my view regardless of covid19 and restrictions.anyway...

All the best and good luck!

[Hidden in reply to Tnthketnf]

thanks for replying - I'm sorry about your failed cycle, I can imagine that'd be particularly tough in the middle of the pandemic. I hope you get a BFP that sticks soon - good luck!

What you're saying about not getting so much of a say at GRI seems to echo what other women are saying, so that's super helpful to know - I really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts!

[WeeJacs]

I’ve had treatment at both. Although we had 2 BFP’s with both our cycles at GRI but unfortunately both ended up in MC. We then switched to GCRM, no success yet but it was like night down to the small things like actually being taken on time, for egg collection I was in at 8am and home by 11am and your private room. I felt constantly like the staff didn’t really have a clue and I’m a nurse for the nhs so had no issues in complaining when I needed too. I also felt like a number at GRI but definitely not like that with GCRM they actually wanted to listen xx

[Hidden in reply to WeeJacs]

Hey, thanks for sharing! I'm so sorry about your MCs. We had a MMC, and one was hard enough, so I can't imagine what it's like to go through two and then have further treatment that hasn't worked out. I wish you so much luck WeeJacs.

It's really, really helpful to know how you found the two of them. Things like being taken on time do matter, don't they? It feels like they value your time. I've found it frustrating that I called GRI spoooo many times but couldn't speak to a person, whereas GCRM have replied instantly and helpfully both times. I realise GRI are having staffing issues, but they still haven't put a statement on the website about cancelling new treatment, so people are finding out through second hand stories, which is a bit crap when it's so important.

[WeeJacs in reply to Hidden]

I have endometriosis and just felt like the doctor at GRI dismissed me, just kept telling me it’s a numbers game. I always got loads of eggs but only 1 ever made it to blast. They refused to tweak my cycle so decided not to go private with them. Moved to GCRM and they used a different protocol and we got 4 Frosties which we never had before.

Things like being taken on time do matter like u say, I just felt that we were never taken on time which is find so difficult as I work for the nhs myself so found it hard to get time away in between my shifts. We still haven’t had any success yet, now looking into immune issues before attending our last frozen. We need to travel to London as no clinic in Scotland offers any. Then plan b fails we’re going abroad, much cheaper with better success rates especially with woman my age 40 who have endo.

Good luck xxx

[Hidden in reply to WeeJacs]

I can imagine them not being willing to change things that weren't working must've been massively frustrating, sorry you went through that. Glad you got your frosties with GCRM, and I really really hope looking into the immune issues turns up something you can do something about and that final frostie sticks.

I've certainly read lots of postive stories from women who've gone abroad. I've looked at Prague or Greece as a plan B if Scotland doesn't work out - as you say cheaper, good results, and if we needed to use donor eggs it'd def be the best choice. But not so easy to travel at the moment! And different kinds of stresses and complexities, so will try giving it a shot in Scotland first.

Thanks for sharing, and I'm wishing you so so much luck x

[WeeJacs in reply to Hidden]

We’re looking at IB Spain and IVF Spain but with all this going on it will be well in to 2021. 🤞🏻 good luck xxxx

[Friedel]

I had an NHS cycle with GRI in 2018 and a private FET with GCRM in December 2020 and I definitely agree with WeeJacs I felt like a number at GRI. However, it might’ve been being an NHS patient and also just being reluctant to ask too many questions/take up too much time as I felt so grateful to be getting treatment at all. And in the end despite the wait times and also the lightning fast explanations they rushed us through sometimes (used to come out with my head spinning), they took amazing care of me during ER and we were lucky enough to be successful first round (fresh transfer, unexplained infertility, ICSI).

I haven’t personally found much difference with GCRM, but it might be the changes since the pandemic. They are nice but they do seem to assume I know a lot already, but I’ve had a very straightforward journey so far so not comparable at all with a full cycle and I’m sure it would make a huge difference through that having the portal and the email address to be in easy regular contact with them - completing consents and proof of smear, Rubella jag etc was certainly much much easier thanks to this.

I wish you so much luck wherever you choose!

[Hidden in reply to Friedel]

Hey Friedel, thanks for sharing your experiences - really helpful! Can I ask why you decided to do the FET with GCRM having done the fresh at GRI? GRI seems to have better success rates for fresh cycles for my age bracket (according to the HFEA), which is a bit of a thought.

[Friedel in reply to Hidden]

Oh that’s interesting, I’m glad you’re able to see figures like that as it must help with the choice if you get really stuck. And actually I’m glad you asked because I forgot to say it was totally down to timing, we actually really wanted to stay with GRI because of our success there, the wonderful care during ER (I sent a thank you letter to one of the nurses as it stood out so much) and also how reassured I felt after speaking to the lab about our frozen embryos - the person I spoke to was both extremely knowledgable and also really friendly and helpful, a combination I haven’t come across very often in this journey (usually one or the other!). But we called in August and they still weren’t starting private cycles at that time, so we made an appointment with GCRM and kept trying GRI in the meantime but they weren’t ready for us, so we officially switched when our GCRM appointment came up.

Also I can add I know 2 other people who had IVF with GRI same time as I did, NHS cycles - one with infertility caused by endometriosis issues, and one I don’t know the details but she was about 39/40 at time of treatment, both had had previous losses but both were successful. I know it’s just anecdotal but it gave me a lot of personal confidence in the clinic. For balance, I do know someone else who has struggled a lot this year with poor communication and patient care from them, but she’s sticking with them for now.

[Hidden in reply to Friedel]

Ah, that makes sense! The detailed HFEA data is available for GCRM here: hfea.gov.uk/choose-a-clinic... and for GRI here: hfea.gov.uk/choose-a-clinic...

Useful to hear those other people's experiences too - thanks! Yeah, GRI's communication has been a bit crap tbh, but when I've spoken to actual doctors or nurses they've been lovely. Just hard when its so unclear how long GRI are suspending things for, and I'm mindul of how slow it all was to open up to new private treatment again last time.....

It's just so hard to wait and hope, when you aren't getting any younger! The hope bit feels especially hard - I feel like 2020 taught me that my hope was usually misguided and misplaced.

[Friedel in reply to Hidden]

The hope is so crushing, it’s brutal and I hate to think of anyone in that place. My heart goes out to you when there are very little other distractions going on now too.

I will say I honestly felt when we finally started treatment that I had run out of hope. It suddenly felt very bleak and unlikely and I found treatment very hard as it went on (in hindsight probably the impact of hormones as well as everything else). But clearly that shit about positive attitude and good vibes doesn’t matter, so if you ever get to that place too, don’t stress about it. Science is here for you. Magic too. ❤️

[Hidden in reply to Friedel]

I needed to hear that. Thank you. ❤️

[Jumpppy in reply to Hidden]

I'll caveat this post with it has been years since I worked with GRI and then moved to GCRM. Things may have changed. (We were comparing as GRI had a 4yr wait via NHS - then we ended up with a medical delay then moved from Scotland.) That said...

It is VERY hard to compare the success rates of GRI and GCRM as GRI exclude (even private) a lot of people from treatment (age/test results/BMI/diagnosis). If you only accept women with a VERY good prognosis your stats will always be better. Just saying, when we were investigating that's what struck us most. Also will echo what others have said GRI isn't focused on bespoke treatment and for us they gave us VERY bad advice that caused issues later (at 28 when I wasn't ready to conceive they strong discouraged embryo banking - severe MF post chemo). They just didn't care. Other women I know had a similar experience and bad advice. Cheaper for sure, but sometimes you get what you pay for. If you have a good prognosis you are likely to have same results anywhere you go

Good luck!

[Hidden in reply to Jumpppy]

That's really interesting - I didn't realise GRI were so much more selective when it comes to who they take forward. As you say that'd influence things. I'm also mindful that both sets of stats for my age etc are within what HFEA say is the normal range, so neither is awesome or awful!

[Kit84]

We contacted both GCRM and GRI in June when it became apparent our NHS IVF wait was going to be much longer. We are still on the waiting list for a GRI consultation over 6 months later....... But in the meantime are 11 weeks pregnant from our first round of IVF with GCRM. Can't fault the care we've had from GCRM. There was a wait for consents appointment but they kept us informed and things moved quickly after that.

[Hidden in reply to Kit84]

Congratulations! Its weird that you're still on the waiting list for GRI for a consultation - feels like maybe the ball has been dropped?? Just cos we got ours at GRI in about 3 weeks of asking towards the end of last year. We were advised that things would shut down a lot over Christmas but that after the consultation we'd be looking at 4-6wks to consent appt (a nurse subsequently told me only 2 wks, had everything not stopped de to covid....) and then start treatment next period.

Having weighed it all up we've booked in a consultation with GCRM, which is 4 weeks away (assuming GRI actually get our investigation results to me in time for them to use them, nobody is replying to calls again...) Then it'll be 10-12wk til consents and start next cycle.

Hopefully 2021 is our year.....🙏🙏🙏

[try2020 in reply to Kit84]

Hi Kit congratulations on your pregnancy! I see from your other posts that you have pcos, I also have high AMH, can I ask about the treatment/regime you were given at GCRM and how many embryos you made? thank you! 🧡

[Kit84 in reply to try2020]

I did have high amh but then had a very big drop in it so we didn't know quite what my response would be. We had flare protocol. We had 4 embryos by day 5 then an extra had developed by day 6.

[try2020 in reply to Kit84]

Thanks Kit, it is really interesting, if they hadn't done a second AMH test they would likely have treated you differently? Did they see a change in your AFC too? Glad the protocol worked for you! 🧡

[Kit84]

They called us in Nov to check if we wanted to stay on waiting list so sounds like their admin system isn't great!

[Hidden in reply to Kit84]

🙄 Argh, yeah, not great! Glad things worked out for you anyways!

[Cmc2020]

I’m nearly 16 weeks with my first FET at GRI but it was nhs the only thing I had problems with was the waiting times etc but I did have cancelled cycle because of thin lining second time around was perfect 😊staff etc was very nice too x

[Hidden in reply to Cmc2020]

Thanks for sharing, glad it worked out 🙂