Hi all, need some hope, advice, positive stories.... đ¤
We had our debrief with the clinic today after our first failed round of IVF. Up until now we have been classified as âunexplained infertilityâ, however, today we have been told our infertility is down to egg quality, which we can do little about. I think I want to return to the unexplained category now! đ
My AMH result was 8, which we were told was low for my age of 29. However, we were told today my AFC was 15 which she felt was good.
We had 9 eggs collected, 5 mature, 5 fertilised, 5 made it to day five but all 5 were of poor quality by day three onwards. We transferred the two best with nothing to freeze.
Consultant recommend we go for maximum dose of stimulation on the next cycle to get as many eggs as possible as I am low risk of OHSS. She also thought it best to change from menopur to gonal f and try lubion as well as cyclogest pessaries after transfer.
Failing that, she talked about donor eggs. Feeling pretty crap and down about the whole thing today đ
Infertility is pants.
Big hugs to all xx
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Hopeful_wishes
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Sorry to hear it wasn't the news you were hoping for. I know it won't feel that way at the moment but sometimes having more facts can bring more insight for the professionals so changing your meds to your situation may help. I'm just starting long protocol for stimming again and they're putting me on high dose of combination of menopur and gonal f and have told me to expect to feel rough with it. Feel a bit nervous but we only had 1 suitable embryo from the first round so I guess whatever works!
Thanks for the message. I knew deep down that round one was a bit of an experiment so that we could take learning moving forward. Keep me posted on how the mixed dose of stims goes - got everything crossed for you xx
Combined gonal f and menapur worked well for me. I added menapyr on day 5 of stumming. My amh was 9. Each cylce can eesult in different quality embryos. Theres still hope!
I got my bfp after changing to long protocol with gonal f and adding Lubion. This was after 4 cycles with poor embryo quality (always had day 2 or 3 transfers, but lucky to get any of those remaining to day 5 and never had any to freeze). Got more eggs, still poor embryo quality, but one did stick. Think what your clinic is suggesting is positive as suppose the more eggs you have to play with the better the chance of a decent quality one. My clinic were always frustratingly unwilling to change anything until we were paying privately. This was going to be our last cycle before trying donor eggs. Donât give up hope! Lots of luck for your next cycle xx
Thank you, so pleased you had success! Gives me hope. The consultant did say it will be a numbers game for the next round. We only got one funded nhs cycle so we are now having to pay privately. Fingers crossed for round 2 xx
Have they mentioned doing a double trigger? Itâs supposed to help with egg maturity and quality. We changed to this for our 3rd and 4th cycles and it was the only times we got to day 5 x
Hiya, thank you for the suggestion. She didnât mention this. We have an open evening with a mini consultation at another clinic next week and will mention this then xx
Hi there, my AMH was only 6.2. my first round of ivf was a pretty poor result and failed (1 fertilised poor quality). They changed my protocol from long to short for 2nd round and we got 4 fertilised, 3 good quality - 2 of which are on board now and Iâm almost 22 weeks pregnant with twin girls!
Some changes I made during 2nd round were:
- took ubiquinol (as did my husband)
- used castor oil packs on stomach
- took Lubion injections
- took Fragmin injections
Who knows if any of the above helped!
Try to stay positive, I know itâs so hard but donât give up hope. â¤ď¸
Hi, can you please tell me how many months did you take ubiquinol for before the successful cycle? Our doc is asking us to repeat this very month and i feel i should start meds and wait for its effect on my eggs.
I started ubiquinol 6 months prior to successful cycle. Although the previous cycle was 2 months prior to that so had been taking it for 4 months by then and that cycle was unsuccessful, so who knows! I think progesterone injections were the key difference between my 1st unsuccessful cycle and my 2nd successful cycle but Iâll never know!x
Hi there! I had a similar experience in my first cycle: 23 eggs collected, 15 fertilized, all embryos too poor quality to transfer or freeze (bad quality started day 2-3). Devastating.
Like you, Iâm on the younger side (32) with unexplained infertility. Did your consultant tell you why they think egg quality is an issue? My consultant told me that at my age, it is incredibly unlikely that ALL my eggs are inherently bad, and itâs possible the stimulation protocol was just wrong for me and affected egg quality. Similar to your situation, Iâm trying a different protocol next time (lower dose and different drug for me, since I was a high responder). I think itâs a good sign that theyâre changing your protocol as it will help determine whether that was the issue.
Speaking from my experience, it seems a little odd that your consultant mentioned donor eggs when youâre only 29 and youâve only had one go. Because of my age, and the fact that nothing appeared morphologically wrong with my eggs, my doctor is still optimistic for us. Iâve been put on COQ10 and myo inositol and Iâm trying again in March.
Aside from all the medical details, Iâm just so sorry youâre going through this. Itâs just the worst. I really feel for you and I wish you the best! â¤ď¸
Thank you so much for the reply, so sorry to hear your first round didnât work out with such high numbers - got everything crossed for your next round. We are also planning to start again in March, keep in touch.
The consultant felt that embryo quality was the problem overall but as the issues started early on this is when the egg is doing most of the work (I think!) so she has put it down to egg quality - along with my low amh as we didnât have many eggs to start with. Youâve given me some hope that we should still have some good eggs at our age đ¤
Will be thinking of you in March! Make sure you take Ubiquinol (active form of COQ10). Iâm taking 200 mg in the morning and 200 at night. It Starts With the Egg has a really good supplement guide if you want to know reputable brands: itstartswiththeegg.com/uk-s...
Itâs like reading my own exact story so far! Thank you both for posting. I had 13 collected, 4 fertilised, all failed on Day 2/3 which I hadnât really prepared myself for. Also trying again in March with long protocol and ICSI this time, same dose of Gonal F and Menopur as last time. Fingers crossed for you all, itâs great to know weâre not alone x
Itâs so devastating to have nothing to freeze or transfer. It was something I totally wasnât prepared for. I hope youâre doing OK, and will be thinking of you in March!
Have they spoken to you about ways of increasing egg quality?
My clinic put me on Metformin for a time before my egg collection As itâs known to increase egg quality. But im a 38 year old PCOS sufferer. Currently 19 weeks pregnant. My friend took something called NAG to increase her egg quality too. Just a thought?
Thank you for the suggestions, she sort of suggested that there is very little we can do as we are born with our eggs. However, I will be trying supplements and will definitely look into the suggestions made on here đ¤congratulations on the pregnancy xx
Hello, I had a BFP from second round of Ivf and my Amh was 9 although the consultant didnât really think this was too much of an issue so I wouldnât go for donor eggs just yet if you can afford another round or two. First unsuccessful round was on the short protocol using gonal f and cetrotide. Second round I used menopur and fyremadel. On the second round I also had acupuncture and was advised to eat Mediterranean food and also increase amount of healthy proteins in my diet (lots of egg, avocado, nuts etc). I still only had one surviving fertilised embryo on day 5 but it was top quality and it only takes one. Iâm 28 weeks pregnant tomorrow so it can and does happen! Best of luck xx
I personally had a few months break as I also left a stressful job. I was determined to go in to the second round feeling more relaxed and positive. Xx
Sorry to hear that you had a failed first round, it is so tough.
I was similar to you, we were referred due to issues on my husbandâs side though and then it transpired that I also had a few challenges.
I have had 4 fresh rounds in total but found in the last 2 that my egg quality was better with a combination of Menopur and Gonal F. I tried menopur only and then Gonal f only on my first two rounds. However, the point I am trying to make is that they learn from each round and tweak the plan based on the results. Hopefully Gonal F will be the one for you đ
Other things that I changed:
I took ubiquinol.
I invested in good supplements, I used the Natural Health Practice Fertility Supplement alongside their vitamin C and Omega 3 supplement. I did this for 3 months prior to a round of treatment starting.
I followed the Zita West IVF diet, more or less.
We changed to organic food where we could.
I became strictly teetotal in the end 100% of the time as I actually preferred it, but best at least 3 months prior to any round.
After both frozen and fresh rounds of treatment, my body wasnât in great shape so I also got myself fit again, which helped with my emotional well-being through my final round.
Not sure whether any of the above made a massive difference, but I felt better in myself and we reasoned that even if each thing only made 0.5% difference, we would take it.
I am now 35 weeks pregnant, so it can happen and I hope it does for you too. Good luck, and feel free to message me if you have any questions xx
Seek a second opinion from another clinic/consultant. My 2 poorer quality embryos, day 3 transfer are now 3 week old twins. At your age and after one cycle Iâm surprised your consultant has suggested poor egg quality is the cause. I saw 3 different consultants after our 2nd failed cycle (only 1 poorer quality embryo to transfer each cycle on day 2/3) and all said that it was too early to consider donor eggs at my age (then 34). Good luck x
Thank you so much for the hope with this message. I have requested my medical records and we are going to have a look at BCRM in Bristol next week for a look around and will be interesting to hear their thoughts as a second opinion. Huge congratulations on the arrival of your twins, must make it all worth it đ xx
Hi.would I be able to pm you?as I see you are down my way and no one ever is lol.we are also looking at Bristol. I have literally found out this week that my AMH has plummeted from 17 to just 5.6 in the last 2 years so I'm feeling really shit about it all at the moment and also worrying about my egg quality as I'm now 37 x
Hi, I'm 42 by the time I started IVF, 1st transfer in Jun19 even tho we need IVF due to male factor but becos of my age, we ended up with implantation failure and no embryo to be frozen as I only took B9 per my RE's advice.
Then I followed the supplements and complementary therapies and diet from 2 books by Zita West and the book "It Starts with the Eggs" from Jul19 and finally from my 3rd transfer near Nov19 end, I'm pregnant and now am 8w3d.
So please do make the little investment and buy these 3 books and follow them.
Cos from the Zita book actually then I became my own advocate and insisted my doctors to give me a big blood test then I found out that I have anti nuclear antibody and Hashimoto that don't help implantation till I take aspirin and thyroid hormone.
And I really believe that after following these 3 books for the diet, supplements, and complementary therapies, my eggs' quality improved a lot as only from the 2nd egg collection I got 2 grade-1/best grade embryos and 1 grade-2 embryo of which 2 can be frozen vs none from my 1st egg collection where I took only B9.
Hi Hopeful_wishes. I'm going through exactly the same right now. We had 2 failed ICSI cycles. First time it was canceled as none of the embys made it ti transfer. I did not respond to protocol well and only had 12 eggs retrieved (and I say ONLY because I had over 30 grown follicles). Second time the doc changed protocol for lower dosages and over more days. I was in a risk of OHSS but we didn't care (I have a mild PCOS). I was also on Metformin. This time we got 27 eggs out of which 13 fertilized. We had 5 good ones by day 5 but only one survived the freeze. Unfortunately, after transfer it did not implant. We went to doc yesterday and now he thinks there could be some sperm quality issues as well. As apparently sperm kicks in and starts doing it's job on day 4. We will be doing comet test for DH to rule this out. But what I will be doing for the next round to increase egg quality is take ubiquinol (400mg a day), vitamin C, E and D. I'm going on Mediterranean diet, cutting off coffee and refined sugar. I have bought the book It starts with the egg. There's plenty of suggestions there. I'm starting fertility acupuncture and reflexology. I'm also thinking of yoga (not only for physical benefits but for mental as well). And I would definitely advise going for a second opinion as we did and got a much better result on the second round then the first.
Thank you so much for all your advice. I am going to order ubiquinol this evening and we are going for a second opinion at a new clinic next week. Wishing you all the best for your next round đ¤ xx
All doctors say that age is the biggest factor in fertility and you are just 29 - so, so young. They often say the first round is a test anyway to see how your body reacts. You have so much to be hopeful for - time is on your side. Try and see this as a journey and I hope yours will end soon with a happy ending â¤ď¸
DHEA was already mentioned. In the past evidence was anecdotal but fairly recent research showed that DHEA, metabolized to testosterone plays a significant role in follicle recruitment in the first few days of recruitment. Women in the study who took DHEA had an increase in both egg quality and live birth rates that was appreciable. Something like 20% higher than women in the group who did not take DHEA. Search on YouTube for âDHEA Infertilityâ. There are two videos that come up by the same doctor. Good luck. Poor quality blastos donât mean the end of the line. ps have your partner and your self been checked for common genetic issues that might be a consideration?
I second DHEA. My first round I only got 1 egg which we transferred at day 3, and it didnt stick and wasn't great quality. Next round I had done 3 months of DHEA and we got a good few more eggs, and ended up with 2 x A grade 5 days blasts, and am currently 38 weeks pregnant with my wee boy xxx
A couple of people have already mentioned the book âIt Starts with the Eggâ and I canât stress enough how much I think it helped us.
The idea that thereâs nothing you can do about egg quality (especially at your age!) simply isnât true. I was 39 when we started our journey a year ago but Iâm now 40.
I had recently been diagnosed with stage 4 endo and had my first laporoscopy a month before we started our first fresh cycle In my initial consultation my consultant told me that with an AMH of 6.5 and the fact that one of my ovaries was effectively out of action thanks to the endo Iâd be lucky to get 2-4 eggs.
For that first round Nov 18 I took pregnacare and co-enzyme q 10 on my consultantâs advice.
We ended up with 9 eggs collected, 5 fertilised, 4 went to day 5 blast we froze 2 and transferred 2 but it ended with a missed miscarriage at 6 weeks.
I had surgical management in Jan 19 and was told the endo was back so had another laporoscopy in June after moving to new house and celebrating my 40th in May
2nd fresh cycle started Aug 19. Ended up with 6 eggs (30% less than 1st cycle). Only 3 fertilised and ended up with 2 day 5 blasts to transfer. None to freeze. It ended in a chemical.
After that I was determined to find out why I seemed to have gone backwards. I started reading about the effect of toxins in our environment that affect fertility and the types of endocrine disrupting fumes that come out of new builds (remember I said I moved home in between first and second cycles.) We moved into a brand new build house with new mattresses that gave off really strong chemical fumes when we first unrolled them! I also finally ordered it starts with the egg off amazon which also talks about detoxing your environment but most importantly goes into lots of detail about all the supplements you can take to improve egg quality depending on your diagnosis- be it endo, PCOS, age related, low ovarian reserve or unexplained.
I ordered the book in September after the chemical, followed the detox advice (got rid of plastics in kitchen and changed all household cleaning projects) and started taking multiple supplements from end Sep to Nov 19â when I started our 3rd fresh cycle.
From that 3rd cycle we ended up with 16 (yes from 6 to 16!) eggs collected, 10 fertilised, 6 day 5 blasts, 2 transferred and 4 frozen.
I am now 8 weeks + 3 days pregnant.
Sorry itâs been such a long response but in a nutshell I think the supplements that made the biggest difference to my egg quantity and the resulting embryo quality were DHEA, NAC, Ubiquonal and melatonin.
We also both took vit C, omega 3 fish oils and vit D.
Itâs quite a lot but itâs worth a try!
I wish you all the best for your next round đđ˝đđđđ
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply and for giving me so many tips. Youâve really given me hope. Iâm so pleased that you got your BFP, wishing you all the best for your pregnancy xx
hi everyone I just wanted to ask about dhea. I have read it starts with egg and know she recommends it but it's not licensed for use in the UK which worries me and 2 consultants have also told me not to use it because of this so so far g haven't but I'm really tempted to now that my amh has plummeted in 2 years from 17 to 5.6.I'm 37. Do you think I should try it??I know you have to get it from America as you can't buy it here.Thanks
Just to point out, you got a significant number of embryos going to blast stage. That itself is a positive. They don't measure success on embryo quality. They measure it on age because they feel that's a better indicator to measure from. Although your reserve is low, the quality should be better than say mine at 41 . Try to hold on to the few positives you have from your first cycle x
My neighbour's had two of the poorest quality blasts put in being warned by the clinic every day after collection that they looked crap and probably wouldn't transfer anything. Their names are Jake and Josh and they are nearly 2.
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