Egg quality

[Butterfly321]

I am 32 and been TTC for 4 years. I had an early miscarriage at 6 weeks 2 years ago. We then had our first round of IVF where I was told I had polycystic appearing ovaries. They collected 28 eggs, 18 fertilised, 8 progresses at day 3 and we had 1 blastocyst embryo that they transferred and 3 slow blastocysts that couldn’t be frozen. It was unsuccessful.

Round two they collected 22, 13 fertilised, 6 progressed and day 5 we had 1 early blastocyst and 3 multiple cell embryos, we had 2 transferred, again unsuccessful.

They have said that it seems my egg quality isn’t great resulting in a reduced chance of success in IVF (around 15%) they said the eggs appear fine but there must be some problem.

Has anyone had anything similar?

Thanks

[KiboXX]

Hi Butterfly,

I don’t have polycystic ovaries so I don’t get anywhere near the number of eggs as you (normally around 10) but we are similar in age (I’m 34) and I had three rounds where we got big drop offs at fertilisation and struggled to get embryo progression, first two rounds we did day 2 transfers because of the drop and round 3 we managed to get one blast to day 5.

My fourth round, I changed from long to short protocol and I think it had a significant impact on this. Our fertilisation rate went from 50% to 90% and we got three top quality blasts to freeze.

What protocol have you been on so far?x

[Butterfly321 in reply to KiboXX]

We have used the short protocol both times and my ovaries have responded very well but from fertilisation to transfer the numbers drop rapidly.

We visited another clinic who said they would have a look at medication and try it slightly differently to see if it has an impact.

Have you had any advice about further treatment?

Xx

[KiboXX in reply to Butterfly321]

We did change clinics for my fourth round and they suggested a change in my protocol, best decision we ever made. I think if you’ve done two rounds on the same protocol with similar results, it’s definitely a good idea to change things up and if your current clinic are giving you that kind of feedback without trying a different approach, then it’s probably time to look elsewhere. I definitely don’t think your eggs are bad quality, you just need to figure out what works for your body.

I’m actually 14 weeks pregnant from the first transfer of my one of the frozen embryos from my fourth round. Don’t give up xxx

[Butterfly321 in reply to KiboXX]

Oh congratulations that’s lovely news. We’ve said that we’re going to try another round at the new clinic (after the covid-19 pandemic)

The other clinic were very much one way suits all and when we spoke to the new clinic they said they have a lot more options. Hopefully we may get the result we’ve been longing for.

Xx

[KiboXX in reply to Butterfly321]

That’s exactly how we felt! Our old clinic just did the same old thing and our new clinic have been amazing. I found the whole process much less stressful this time around as well because I really trusted them.

Fingers crossed this will be the one for you 😊 xxx

[Butterfly321 in reply to KiboXX]

Thank you. Where about did you do your treatment (if you don’t mind me asking) my old clinic made us feel like we were just numbers on a conveyor belt xx

[KiboXX in reply to Butterfly321]

We actually refer to our old clinic as the factory for that very reason 🙈 I’ll send you a message with the clinic names on them as we aren’t supposed to post them on here x

[Butterfly321 in reply to KiboXX]

Oh right ok. Thank you xx

[Jessy1280 in reply to Butterfly321]

I actually did better on long protocol even though I developed OHSS. I got three good ones to freeze whereas in subsequent cycles on short protocol, no ohss but worse quality embryos and crap fertilisation rates.

[Butterfly321 in reply to Jessy1280]

Really, how many rounds have you done? What were your numbers each time (if you don’t mind me asking?) xx

[Jessy1280 in reply to Butterfly321]

Sure.

First cycle long protocol (amh 45.2). Got 16 eggs and 13 fertilised. 3 made it to day 5 (hatching 5ba, 4ab and day 6 4bb). Ohss so freeze all. Taking zero supplements. Partner sperm 45millon.

Second cycle. Short protocol.

12 eggs, 7 fertilised and only one made it to day 5. 4ab embryo, bfp but mmc at 9 weeks. Partner sperm 13 million and just 9% motility. Took every supplement recommended.

Third cycle, amh now 24.3. Short protocol.

19 eggs, 10 fertilised and 3 made it to day 5. A 4aa and a 2 transfered. Third embryo didn't make it to day 6. Again taking loads and loads of supplements.

No cycles left as we are self funding. I'm 39 and just got my hatching 5ba and 4bb left from cycle 1. Sperm now 88 million with 30% motility.

I'm terrified by the time covid-19 restrictions have been lifted and I can transfer my last two embryos if they dont work any more cycles I do may result in worse embryos because of my age.

We have male factor infertility following vasectomy reversal. Count and motility fluctuatates wildly.

I think supplements have made my results worse each time. I no longer ovulate. Before beginning ivf my cycles were totally normal and like clockwork. I no longer get pms symptoms either. Since my mmc in December my periods are now very heavy and short and I no longer ovulate 😢. Hard because my partners sperm is the highest its ever been x

[Butterfly321 in reply to Jessy1280]

I’m so sorry to hear this. It’s just a constant battle and a never ending worry. My husband has great quality sperm. They’ve said they can’t find any abnormally with me apart from having lots of follicles on my ovaries. My periods are between 28-38 days and have been similar for 4 years. They just can’t give me any ideas but haven’t changed anything just repeated 2 cycles the same then said your chances are reduced.

I also wasn’t told the grades of my embryos or any hormone levels.

I don’t know if it’s best to try supplements or whether to just hold off and see what happens at the new clinic (after the Coronavirus) x

[Jessy1280 in reply to Butterfly321]

Personally I think it's just a matter of mixing up different protocols and different drugs. Everyone reacts differently to different drugs.

Ive seen no benefit in taking supplements but again, everyone reacts differently. I literally took everything in high doses... Omega 3, myoinsitol, vitamin D, c, b, zinc, ala, nac, ubiquinol, prenatal. At one point tried dhea and melatonin but it just gets progressively worse. Lower fertilisation every time x

[cggregory]

Hi, I had a similar experience on my first round. Short protocol, 23 eggs collected, 15 fertilized normally, all deteriorated by days 2/3, no blastocysts. It was shocking and heartbreaking, especially with the good fertilization rate. I’m 33 and we have “unexplained infertility”; all tests normal for both myself and my husband. One of my ovaries is classed as polycystic but I don’t have PCOS. All my eggs looked fine, apparently. Second cycle was planned for this month but cancelled due to COVID-19. My doctor has told me to take CoQ10 and inofolic, which I’ve been on for 3 months. They are also planning on putting me on a lower dose and different type of stims (150 menopur vs 225 gonal f) to aim for quality over quantity. All of these strategies are just their best guess...they said they won’t know anything for sure until the second round happens.

Sorry for the long post...the most important thing to say is that I’m sorry you’re going through this; it’s so hard. Sending love ❤️

[Butterfly321 in reply to cggregory]

Thank you for your reply. It’s nice to speak to others that have experienced the same things. My clinic just repeated the same protocol the second time then said there isn’t anything else we can do. We’ve found another clinic who said they will try different drugs and tailor our treatment to what they think will work best for us.

I’ve never been advised any supplements but have just got CoQ10 after researching it, I feel like we’ve not been given much advice or support from our old clinic so I’m hoping the new clinic will give us more support.

Thank you and sending love 💕

[cggregory in reply to Butterfly321]

A supportive clinic really makes all the difference. Our follow-up appointment after our failed round lasted over an hour...they answered my ridiculously long list of questions and were so compassionate about what I was going through. I really hope you find that kind of care at your next clinic.

[Butterfly321 in reply to cggregory]

Thank you. We already got that impression when we went for a look around and chat. They showed us the full clinic and chatted for over an hour. The old clinic just said “there’s nothing we can do and your chances aren’t great” we were left feeling lost. Thank you for your advice x

[ABR19 in reply to Butterfly321]

Try adding Ubiquinol (300 mg) and DHA (from zita west). Also some people think that getting over 20 eggs is good but a lot of the time it means you have been over stimulated and therefore your egg quality is reduced. On our cycle we got 15 eggs, 14 mature, 11 fertilised and 7 made it to blastocyst. My doctor was very conscious not to over stimulate, so that’s maybe something to discuss with your doctor. Goodluck!

[Butterfly321 in reply to ABR19]

Thank you I’ll give it a try. They were concerned about OHSS but didn’t change anything the second round and got similar results. The new clinic sound so much better and say they will try something different. Thank you x

[Tiggerroo]

Hey Butterfly321

We’ve had problems with egg quality which I wasn’t told about until after my third cycle. I always thought it was because I have endometriosis. We changed clinics and that was the best thing we ever did!! New things were suggested to us and that included me and my husband taking supplements. We both had COQ10. My husband had Omega 3 fish oil and impryl. I was taking NAC and it was said that I might of had polycystic ovaries aswell so I also had inofolic.

From my first egg collection at the first clinic we were with we never had any embryos that made it to freezing. This time after changing clinics and taking all the supplements suggested we had lots more that had fertilised and top grade ones too. We actually had a top grade one put back in and was able to freeze 5 aswell. We were over the moon. Unfortunately it didn’t work that time and now we have just had a frozen egg transfer so we’re just in our 2ww. Tried the endo scratch this time too.

So if it’s egg quality see what supplements are suggested for you as this helped us tremendously.

Hope this helps

[Butterfly321 in reply to Tiggerroo]

Thank you Tiggerroo. I’ve just started taking COQ10 along with vitamin D. I feel like the new clinic may be the turning point 🤞🏼 after the Coronavirus we will certainly be pursuing things with the new clinic as I’ve lost all faith with the old one. Thank you for sharing your story. Sending lots of positivity for your test results 💕x

[Butterfly321 in reply to Tiggerroo]

Can I also ask which inofolic you bought? I’ve seen a few and don’t know which is best. Thank you x

[Jessy1280 in reply to Butterfly321]

Inofolic is a brand. Its basically myoinsitol and folate. Its about £33 a month. I'll be completely honest, I've taken no end of supplements and it hadn't help me at all in 3 cycles. Wherever you do dont take dhea. I took it in desparation when I didn't need it. It's not recommended to those with high ovarian reserve like us. It's totally messed me up x

[Butterfly321 in reply to Jessy1280]

Ok thank you xx

[Tiggerroo in reply to Butterfly321]

Fingers crossed for you 🤞🤞and thank you 😊😊

I got given a leaflet so I just got the same one as that, this is the site I used : drfertility.co.uk/products/... xx

[Butterfly321 in reply to Tiggerroo]

Thank you xx

[Hidden]

hey

yes, my amh was 5 years advanced making my reserve really low. I did ivf with 2 egg extraction. First cancelled due to ohss, 2nd got 16 eggs, 15 fertilised, by day 3 quality was rubbish, 2 implanted, none to freeze, failed. Second, 8 eggs( I'm in Spain and no anaesthetic for egg collection, I had a panic attack in the middle so other eggs left in) all 8 fertilised, froze all, when defrosted stopped developing, 2 implanted, others died, failed.

Then I got pregnant naturally 2 times ( once whilst injecting for my last cycle) ended in mc, then 6 months later hcg didn't rise. Then after giving up gluten completely as a last ditch attempt I got pregnant and he's going to be 2 on Monday. We had unexplained infertility. Tried everything, supplements, acupuncture the lot. I conceived Jack 2 months before my 40th birthday, with an amh of a 45 year old.

We tried coq10, jalea real, ante natal vitamins, maca, herbs, acupuncture.

What might help is OVUSITOL D. My gynae recommended I take it and fir hubby ANDROMAS.

Have a look online for more info, and obviously speak to your gynae before trying.

Also look into gluten and infertility. I believe it made a huge difference for us.

I truly wish you all the luck.

[Butterfly321 in reply to Hidden]

Thank you for sharing your story and I’m so pleased you ended up with your baby boy. I’ll look into those supplements. Thank you again 💕

[Miracle43 in reply to Hidden]

Hi Rainbowdreams,

Just reading your post where you said you caught naturally whilst injecting for your last cycle. This has just happened to me, it has also just ended in a mmc.

I've been feeling so low but knowing that you did go on to conceive has really given me hope. I have low amh and the wrong side of 40 but doing all I can to improve quality. Did you conceive naturally with your little one? xx

[Hidden in reply to Miracle43]

hey

yes all 3 times were natural. I really think gluten has a factor in it.