Hi all,
I often read about tablets and vitamins that boost this and that.
I just wonder if anyone has found any real benefits from ANY vitamins/tonics/foods/drinks etc.. regarding relief of ANY of the endo symptoms?
im willing to give anything a go, im so fed up of feeling crap every day. id love to hear of something that I can try which I can get results from.
Thanks in advance 
I follow the endometriosis diet as closely as possible and also take Omega 3 supplements which seem to help relieve my pain. I take Vitabiotics Ultra Omega 3 which is quite expensive (£10 for a month's course, but they are on 3for2) but is very good. Whenever I stop taking it I notice a difference in my pain levels xx
thanks for this, its really helpful!.
have you noticed any difference from the endo diet? I've read quite a bit about it and it said its not proven that it works. I guess a healthy diet over all is a good thing in itself.
I think it helps keep inflammation down. For me dairy, gluten and sugary things seem to trigger my pain xxx
how did you work out what your triggers are? did you cut things out one at a time??x
It varies by individual a lot so adopt a scientific trial and eliminate approach. When I bled heavily floradix plus extra greens with lemon juice on it (a tip from my GP) the took the edge off.
I feel better when I avoid dairy and wine but it varies as I say. Ive not been able to trial eliminating soya due to other intolerances and treatments. Below is my research to date into the facts behind the nutritional claims. Take whatever of it is of use to you and supplement with your own research...
If you want to go down the diet route I suggest you approach it scientifically and only eliminate only one thing at a time for a monthly cycle to work out what works for you rather that stop everything all at once as it varies significantly by individual.
Cause and effect is hard to prove and theories abound but any overall healthy diet that is high in fresh vegetables and fruit, low in fat, sugar, artificial chemicals and processed food is likely to help you feel better in yourself regardless of any alleged endo specific properties.
I am now more or less 100% vegan but eat a fair bit of organic soya and gluten/wheat as I am nut allergic. I have severe deep endo but only experience comparatively mild to moderate pain. Others don't get on with certain usual suspect allergens eg milk, nuts, soya or gluten.
Phyto-oestrogens
Phytoestrogens have been controversial. They aren’t actually oestrogen but are naturally-occurring plant compounds that are functionally similar to mammalian estrogens.
Past studies were conflicting but the latest studies lean towards soya, which is particularly rich in phyto-oestrogens, being mildly positive. It was thought that as oestrogen stimulates endo, plant oestrogens would do the same.
But there are only so many receptors that oestrogen can latch onto and recent thinking is that phyto-oestrogens (which are very weak) will occupy some of the receptors and prevent the much stronger oestradiol from attaching (the driver of endo and oestrogen cancers). Latest clinical opinion now seems to be leaning toward soya as having protective effects due to this. Earlier positive studies also existed from Japan where tofu is a traditional diet component and a lower incidence of Endo was recorded.
The soya phyto-oestrogens debate
empowher.com/endometriosis/...
academic.oup.com/jnci/artic...
nextwavetherapy.com.au/phyt...
endometriosisnetwork.com/ea...
cancerresearchuk.org/about-...
Liver
The liver is important in metabolising excess hormones so eating foods that help it like leafy greens and avoiding foods that strain it like wine is helpful.
womensinternational.com/pdf...
Wine
Wine is again contentious, if you accept the phyto-oestrogens verdict above then on balance not so good, probably because it puts an extra strain on your liver. At any rate I find I physically can't drink more than half a small champagne glass now, very depressing! Here are some links.
bloominuterus.com/2016/07/2...
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
Dairy
When it comes to dairy milk it is the casein type that is relevant. Originally cows' milk had A2 beta casein, the same as in human milk. But the domestication of cows for dairy production caused a mutation that gave rise to A1 beta casein that has seemingly been proven to have several adverse effects on health. Amongst these are effects on immune and endocrine function and, as a consequence, on autoimmunity and allergies. There does seem to be a case that it is potentially harmful for anyone, but particularly for someone with an immune/endocrine disease such as endo. Goat's milk and Guernsey milk are meant to have mostly A2 so possibly better for some. Else try soya milk, oatmilk, almond milk etc till you find one that suits.
larabriden.com/the-inflamma...
The Endo Diet Book
The Endo diet book is written by an American and tends to get treated as the absolute and sole truth. But while it has plenty of good tips, it is not entirely accurate for the UK market. Also, it doesn't always present an balanced rounded view on both sides of some of the nutrition debates or include the latest clinical findings (particularly phyto-oestrogens and soya) that don't support its opinions, so should be taken with a pinch of salt and a bit of organic GM free tofu in my personal opinion, though some swear by it.
Firstly bear in mind EU food production standards are far stricter than those in the US, GM was not accepted by the UK public so the US issues don't apply here .
My second reservation is that it relies a little heavily on Dr John Lee , a pretty controversial US clinician whose made a lot of money from controversial clinically unregulated allegedly "natural" progestogen creams ( for the debate see bmj.com/rapid-response/2011... and health.harvard.edu/womens-h... ).
Trying one thing at a time and taking what works for you is the the best approach rather than following it blindly as a Bible.
Soya and GM
Soy gets a bad press from the US Endo Diet and also to be fair from certain dubious US manufacturing methods, where it is often GM and heavily crop sprayed and there seems to have been a US specific scandal about production methods. Using organic branded products like Cauldron and Alpro with traceability tested beans avoids this risk and any GM intake from human foods.
If GM is a concern you need to consider only eating organic meat and dairy or going vegan. Even in the UK large quantities of GM soya and maize are now used as animal feed. Meat and dairy products fed on GM animal feed are not reqired to be labelled as GM-fed in British supermarkets.
There is no evidence that soy is bad for you although I would always stick to organic branded products and avoid USA products where they use GM and crop spray .
In general it's good to avoid over reliance on any one protein source. If soya had any material negative impact, having consumed it extensively for over 20 years, I would be riddled with end-stage severity endo not just one deep nodule.
Thats a very interesting, thorough response, fair play! Do you know about Quorn & if its better than soya in general being a mushroom based protein? We have a lot of Quorn products consumed in my family - all life long vegetarians.
Thanks both, i got very anxious about this topic when i was first diagnosed as I'd eaten lots of soya for years as a nut allergic veggie and worried if that had caused my endo. as i did my research I discovered lots of misinformation out there so wanted to establish the facts so far as i could establish them.
Not sure about quorn, it's a good question I'm not aware of much research into it. The mould it's made of is a different protein source so will affect people differently. I've never eaten it myself mainly because of the egg content. I'm not keen about routine anti-biotic content and GM feed given today's industrial poultry farming and not sure if Quorn uses organic or true free range sourced. Depending on the egg content it will have avian hormones but I've no idea if that's on balance good or bad beyond the phytoestrogen debate which may apply. You'll probably find arguments both ways so if concerned praps put it on the list for a trial elimination period and see how you feel.
google.co.uk/amp/s/bloominu...
And just for fun an exchange between a processed food cynic and the CEO. I think it's a nil nil draw. drbriffa.com/2008/04/18/whe...
Hi,
I am glad you get on with Quorn. if you are trying to avoid soya because it disagrees with you there aren't many other veggie options.
When i first investigated it many years ago they used battery eggs and there were no vegan options at all so i went with the Redwood cheatin' range and Fry's and cauldron.
It's nice to hear they are after many years starting to improve. However the Quorn website FAQ says "The majority of the Quorn product range still contain a small amount of egg white or milk ingredients, so are not suitable for vegans."
They also admit on their website under free range status that their birds have been "kept indoors since late last year in order to prevent the spread of Avian Flu through the UK free range flocks. Where this continues for a period of 12 weeks, the status of “free range” eggs moves to “barn”. That's five months and a result of the intense farming methods.
At risk of straying into personal opinion, birds get the shortest straw in modern industrial farming. The legal moninum standard to be "free range" is shockingly bad from a welfare perspective ( see the photo in the mirror of a legal "free range" installation). Vast flocks with many birds never getting to see the light of day and having their beaks mutilated to stop fight injuries caused by overcrowding, male chicks are gassed at one day old. The table on p5 in the soil association pdf compares the legal minimum to the organic standard, it bans the mutilation and requires twice the space per bird.
google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sourc...
mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/h...
It's great that Quorn have made being veggie more mainstream. But I don't see Quorn making an ethical stand by exceeding or pushing up the welfare standard.
Thanks for encouraging me to revisit the brand, but I'm happy with my excellent alternative products and probably won't return to the brand though it is good to now know they do have a few vegan options.
Hi,
I think if you look all over currently LOADS of products have to say this due to the recent avian flu outbreak & even long established organic free range farmers have had to do this. It is been a widespread but TEMPORARY response. And distresses all involved in free range production. We have a local organic farmer here who has been farming free range over 40 yrs who has had to comply with this.
Kinda unfair & out of context of you to quote this when its not their normal practice at all, nor that of other free range farmers - its a temp measure due to devastating circumstances that has been taken out of their hands.
All of the facts about the legal standard are completely true which was my main point. In my opinion the criticism of Quorn is justified as Quorn deliberately market themselves as an ethical company selling veggie products but are clearly only doing the bare legal mininum which still is very poor welfare. To me that's a little hypocritical and i worry people have a false impression as to how these animals are treated.
You raise a valid point that most industrial farms are also enclosing their birds. But 5 or six months is getting beyond temporary. The root cause of the avian flu being such an issue is the oversized flocks and overcrowded conditions in the first place and sadly despite their veggie products Quorn is no better than any other company using produce from these industrial practices.
On a positive note it's nice to see the soil association insisting on significantly raised welfare standards I hadn't known that till our discussion.
I have strayed off topic into a broader debate and though i wanted the facts out there, this is just my personal opinion. I am sure you will continue to enjoy Quorn and am glad it works for you.
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