Any tips of keeping hormones under control? Mood swings and pmt causing a problem.

[Bluetit]

Hi all, I suffer from mood swings and pmt every month without fail even without the periods. I don't know if its connected to the endo but I wondered if anyone else has had a similar problem and found a solution. The doctors just say I'm depressed, it's stress down to my job and pretty much any excuse except its hormonal. Granted it looks like I'm depressed when it hits and I am in a stressful job but I know it's my hormones. Gp wanted me to try anti depressants but I think I have had pretty much most of them and not found them helpful. Can anyone suggest anything that may help? Current treatment for endo is marina coil and I'm trying gluten free to see if this helps with pains. Will be eliminating yeast and dairy shortly

[stevieflp]

Hi

I recomend you read "Estrogen Dominance" by Michael Lam and another good book is "Stop Endometriosis and Pelvic Pain" by Andrew S Cook. I found these two books most insightful, amongst others.

Estrogen dominance does not mean estrogen is necessarily extraordinarily high but simply that it is high compared to progesterone, so in fact both might actually be at a low level but progesterone will be low compared to estrogen.

Bearing in mind progesterone tempers the rogue effects of estrogen, this is believed in certain circles to be one of the possible contributory factors to a string of conditions which may have a root in hormonal imbalance.

Examples are: endo; fybromyalgia, PMT, post-natal depression due to the sharp drop in progestrone following birth; miscarriage due to insufficient progesterone to maintain pregnancy; Osteoporosis; fibroids; hormonal headaches; cervical erosion; pituitary prolactinoma; cervical/ovarian/breast cancers.

I certainly have had PMT, Cervical Erosion, Pituitary Prolactinoma and finally diagnosed with advanced endo. The fact that I have had 4 of these and had a blood test which showed low progesterone compared to estrogen (this does need to be done over a series of tests though rather than a single test in order to be conclusive), and many ladies with endo have fybromyalgia, fibroids etc, could of course be a complete co-incidence with a variety of causes but it all seemed to make sense to me having read materials.

Stress also has an effect on the adrenals which in turn has an effect on lowering progesterone and so on contributing to estrogen dominance et al. PMT and endo are therefore both mentioned as having a possible hormonal connection.

Adding to the estrogen pot are the xenoestrogens from external sources that are derived from toiletries, cosmetics, cleaning material, washing powders etc that contain chemical cocktails of parabens, sulfates, pthlates - also from BPAs in plastics used in bottles, microwave food trays, plastic cups etc. Also residue in water supply from contraceptive pills (which remains diputed by the water companies). All these things are thought to also have affected male fertility levels with the increase in xenoestrogens in modern times, although of course this is all disputed by the pharmaceutical industry etc as being negligible.

Apparently the reason that the endo diet helps is because the liver processes excess estrogen and eliminates it from the body. When the liver is busy processing alcohol/ caffeine and other toxins, it is less able to function optimally to reduce the estrogen which then gets stored in body fat so I understand. Therefore the more you can help your liver to be free of these toxins the better it can do its job.

I am not obsessive by any means but, having undergone major surgery for advanced endo (7.5 hour op to remove the entire peritoneal lining) I am keen to do justice to the surgeons skill and dedication by doing anything that I can to help keep it at bay.

I have taken steps to switch to decaffeinated and have also switched to cosmetics, toiletries, feminine care and washing powder that do not contain parabens, sulfates, pthlates and a host of other chemicals. I draw the line at cutting out all alcohol socially but am more mindful of this as being a toxin my liver could well do without in the endo fight and re any other symptoms of estrogen dominance.

Whether any of this makes a real difference or is like a raindrop falling in an ocean, I dont know but it can only be a good thing to decrease exposure to these chemicals. Obviously stress reduction helps too, particularly for the reason stated above, but with busy schedules this is not always possible. Having endo in itself is stressful.

Please bear in mind that these are just my views having read various materials including these books and I have no personal scientific evidence or personal expertise to actually back this up but it certainly gave me food for thought.

Happy reading and all best wishes x x

[jayneeb3 in reply to stevieflp]

Just wanted to say how informative your post was for me, I have had a terrible time since my ovary and tube were removed and now 9 months later I have a fibroid. I have milk in my right breast a prob I had 10 years ago and had a brain scan, then and since my op because the symptoms I was having they had to rule out a brain tumour. I do have constant headaches and a muzzy head and some visual flashes and convinced it is hormone related not that anyone listen. What tests did you have to confirm your imbalance, I have an appt with my doc 9th Sept and would like to speak to her about this.

Many thanks in advance

xx

[Bluetit in reply to stevieflp]

Wow thank you so much for taking the time to write all of the above! Certainly a lot to think about and something's to research! Sorry to hear you you have stage 4 and hope you are keeping well. Jayneed3 have you spoken to a headache/migraine specialist? I have been to a fantastic one in Birmingham before I was diagnosed with endo and without meaning to she helped me through diet and now I rarely suffer from them Xx

[jayneeb3 in reply to Bluetit]

Hi I am currently under a neurologist, as my symptoms could indicate MS, I have to be clear for 5 years for it to be what they would call benign, I have a minor inflamation on my spinal fluid and the pressure was raised, which could also be intercrainal hypertension. have been told to drink caffine for my headaches.which does work, contray to beliefs. I do think all my symptoms are oestrogen related, this all kicked off 3 days after having my ovary etc out. I had migraines when I first started my periods in my teens and I can honestly say they are as bad now as they were then. They won't put me on any type of pill because of my age, I am 46. What diet do you follow for your headaches I will try anything for a clear head x

[Bluetit in reply to jayneeb3]

You need to keep a diary day to day of what you have eaten, what time you ate, how much sleep you have had, what you have drank, what mood you were in that day and if you feel its hormonal probably best to include where you are in your cycle. By looking at each day you may be able to find a pattern of when you get them and find a reason to why. The basics diet wise are to eat 3 meals a day, oats for breakfast if you can as they are slow releasing, drink at least 2 litres of water, eat every 4-6 hours to prevent blood sugars from dipping and try to avoid foods which would raise your blood sugars. Interestingly you may see that you crave certain foods when you get a migraine, for me it was pizza and my specialist craved chocolate.

I saw a neurologist a few years before the specialist as I had a swollen nerve behind my eye (which was picked up on tests for an eye condition I have) and because of my headaches there was a concern I had a brain tumour, which thankfully was down to the contraceptive pill. The neurologist I saw told me not to eat cheese, citrus fruits, chocolate or drink caffeine, the specialist told me there was no research that backed this up apart from caffeine. If you do not normally have caffeine and then drink it, it will cause a headache where as if you do normally drink caffeine and go cold turkey again it will cause a headache.

She also put me on beta blockers which helped for a while, not sure if this is an option for you but I would suggest keeping the diary and writing down the headaches when you get them and how much pain you are in. If anything it may help a doctor to see you only get them around your periods and there is nothing else that changes? It really helped me.

Hope that helps anyway and you have found it at least a little bit useful. Take care xx

[jayneeb3 in reply to Bluetit]

Thank you so much for this, I feel lost most of the time. I do not each properly even though I am a chef I tend to eat once a day,or drink enough fluid considering the environment I work in, sleep I am lucky to get 6 hours a nite, I work shifts this doesn't help. My head is constantly fuzzy, at period time I do get pressure in my neck and visual disturbance. My crying and depressive mood is always a week before I am due my period, I feel like I could quite easily end my life and get a real chocolate craving. I am seeing my doc 9th September for scan and blood tests results and will talk this through with her.

I hope you are feeling well at the moment, take care too.

xxx

[stevieflp]

Hi - thanks I am good. I have had no endo symptoms since my radical excision op but I am ever mindful of the nature of endo and any time free of it is a bonus rather than taken for granted.

My blood test was only a routine one to see if I was peri-menopausal by my GP and not a hormone expert so it was not a definitive test. But it was good enough for me to see that my progesterone was considerably lower than estrogen. I think the symptoms I have had over the years speak for themselves to be honest after reading the material that I have. The kind of blood tests your GP generally does will check for hormones being within 'normal ranges" rather than any detailed analysis. GPs tend not to recognise estrogen dominance or link symptoms as I understand it is not really in their standard medical training . . . so they would need to have taken a particular interest in it.

Rogue breast milk was a symptom that I had with the prolactinoma. This was a small benign growth on the anterior pituitary gland that interfered with hormones and caused elevated prolactin (hormone responsible for producing breast milk). It is sometimes referred to as a brain tumour which does sound scary but it was benign and of the pituitary which sits at the base of the brain rather than of the brain. I was treated by tablets which reduced the prolactin production and the growth. Over time it disappeared completely and that was 18 years ago and I have not had any further raised prolactin since. I was under an endocrinologist for this at St Barts in London rather than neuro. Cessation of periods was also a symptom of raised levels of prolactin but this will depend upon the degree of elevation no doubt. I did get hormonal headaches during this time and my visual field was regularly checked.

Prolactin can also be raised by stress, polycistic syndrome, thyroid issues and sometimes for no clear reason at all - a prolactinoma is rare so please do not worry, but if you still have these symptoms of breast milk, I would discuss this with your GP.

I so hope you will get the answers you need and feel better.

Lots of love x

[jayneeb3 in reply to stevieflp]

Thank you so much for your reply, I have had ct and mri scans on my brain in the last 8 months, as I had swollen optic discs, and there were no concerns, it was to rule out the worst case scenario. I'm sure it can be that simple to sort prevent problems when older. But I struggle to understand how someone who can only give you a 10min appointment knows my body better than I do, because that is what is says in a book. We are all different, I have gone back to a doctor I trust, rather than the one I was assigned to because my old doctor retired, I had no pain for the 2 months after my lap and no periods either, this has all started since my periods again, hormonal most definately. Thanks again x

[stevieflp]

I agree a 10 minute consultation is not nearly enough time - surreptitiously leave the estrogen dominance books on docs desk for bedtime reading ! Hee hee. Nah, pretty bad idea.

All very best wishes to you x

[Jenny77]

Hi, reading your question was like listening to me. My terrible pmt started around 18 yrs of age, im now 35. I couldnt understand why id be normal for a while then suddenly go into awful rages or feel like the world was ending for a few days then back to normal i thought i was crazy. It wasnt until my early twenties i made the connection between my week before and the mood swings. Over the years they got progressively worse and attending my doctor didnt help at all as i was prescribed anti depressants, nobody bothered to look at my history and dig a little deeper to get the root cause This mixed with extremely heavy periods, awful pain and ex partners who blamed my PMT on everything and told me i was lazy due to being exhausted all the time made me suicidal at one point. It wasnt until 2010 after a cervical cancer scare they found out i had endo. I have tried the mirena coil in 2007, then had it removed two weeks later due to the pain. Iv tried so many different anti depressants. Iv exercised, changed my diet, spoke to counsellors, tried homopathic remedies, tried alternative therapies, cut out wheat, tried gluten free diet, tried the decapeptyl injections. You get the gist, its been hell until i agreed to try the mirena coil again in dec 2012 after my 3rd lap along with a low dose anti depressant citilapram 20mg. All i can say is iv got my life back. The terrible depression has lifetd, i still get down days but NOTHING like i had for years. The pain comes and goes due to issues i still have with the endo but i dont get the awful monthly period, flooding, pain, mood swings, crying etc. Between the two its made me a more calm person. The docs had washed their hands with me in the past saying i was depressed end of nothing else, one even told me hormones dont exist!! Its taken me 17 yr to eventually feel normal again and i would advise you push your doc to refer you to a specialist to get the right treatment. It took 3 month of heavy spotting, some mood swings and bad days to get to March of this year where i saw light at the end of the tunnel. During the last three yr iv had a cervical cancer scare, two breast cancer scares, 3ops, hold down a stressful job, had a physco ex haunting me, moved home, been told i need a 4th op to remove my ovary thats stuk to my bowel, currently awaiting a colonoscopy biopsies results, so i SHOULD be but im NOT depressed as the doctors would say. I strongly believe the depression is linked to endo and it can be soul destroying when all the doc says is ur stressed due to ur job or ur not coping with life!! For me the mirena has been a saviour, it was hard at first but now the pain has eased, mood swings nearly non existent, no period and the anti depressant keeps me on an even keel. I watch my diet and try to avoid wheat, alcohol and cut gluten where possible. I would have loved to have taken the natural route but years of battling the black depressions led me to give in and go down the mirena and tablets route, but its turned my life around and i cant stress how bad i was before. I hope you find the right solution, i just wanted u to know the are others out there who have experience of this but there is answers, dont let certain docs fob u off, push until u get the right treatment for u. Most of all be kind to yourself, especially when your feeling very low and know its most certainly your hormones and things will get better x

[Bluetit in reply to Jenny77]

Thanks for your response it has been comforting to know I am not the only one who cries uncontrollably and feels as though my life has spiralled out of control because my hormones have made mountains out of mole hills! The problem is I suffered from depression for about 2 years and was assigned a mental health nurse who I saw once a week for a long time. She also felt that my depression was worse during certain times of the month and connected to my hormones but due to budget cuts I am not sure her department even exists anymore! I changed doctors this year and my notes are still not on the system so they cannot easily find any previous information so at present I have no way of finding if she detailed this in my notes.

Basically due to suffering from depression for a long time this is all the doctors hear and blame it on a new episode but I can say last Thursday/Friday I could not cope where as since Monday I have been normal. I'm sorry if I am ranting but to me it is so clear to see and I think the gynae just thinks I'm attention seeking or its not her problem. I'm seeing her again on 23rd Sept so will hopefully be able to get her to refer me to someone who can help or help me herself. Thanks again for sharing your experience, take care xx

[memyselfi]

This is an illuminating 'conversation' and chimes with something I have been thinking about for a few weeks.

I have been diagnosed with hyperprolactinemia, get pole-axed by migraines, have possible fybromyalgia, get horrendous PMT, was investigated for MS and generally feel rotten most of the time, in addition to the stage 4 endo of course.

I have recently started taking vitamin supplements again (you know how you cycle through clutching at any straw to find something that will help) and decided to try agnus castus as well. The last time I tried this was pre internet, so I looked it up and have been interested to read that it affects the pituitary gland and results in more progesterone and less prolactin, I also didn't realise that there is so much evidence to support its use for PMS.

This seems to be exactly what I need so I am going to give it a go, despite the expense, for at least 3 months to see if it affects my mood and/or endo symptoms. The only other things I am doing differently for these three months are: taking EPO, vitamin B complex, magnesium supplements and exchanging my morning milk on cereal for almond milk (I went dairy free for 2 weeks and was astonished to find that my cattarh symptoms reduced hugely - but I am worried about low calcium so am just going to reduce my intake from now on)

I'd be interested to hear if anyone has any views on any of this or has tried it themselves. I'm also wondering what would happen if I took more than the recommended daily allowance on the bottle and if anyone does know the answer to this, please share.

ETA that I have had the mirena for a year, and while it has helped by removing my uterine monthly bleeding, my PMT seems to last for more than two weeks now rather than the week it used to.