Researchers say No to Low Carb/Keto Diet! - Diabetes India

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Researchers say No to Low Carb/Keto Diet!

namaha
namahaModerator
β€’21 Replies

An interesting read for most of us who practice Low Carb Diet....

The results from a pooled research on low carbohydrate diets were presented at the European Society of Cardiology's 2018 Congress in August by researchers based in the UK, Poland, Sweden, and Greece....

The article outlines the start of the low carb diet way back in 1863 and then progressively till date .....

You must read the entire article which is just 5 minutes read to get a full understanding of the article.,...

The take home message from the article is that:

(1) If you are otherwise healthy, You don't need a low carb diet... and it could be unsafe in the long run..

(2)For an Obese, Low Carb diet / keto may be helpful for weight reduction....

(3) If you have a known medical condition- ( such as Diabetes) - evidence based.... LCHF could be helpful....

And for such condition , LCHF with Mediterranean style diet..is recommended...

The views expressed in the article is that of the author .....

Different human bodies may react differently to different food/medication.... and nothing can substitute medical advice and your own experiment/experience with a particular d iet .....Also, please consult your medical expert before undertaking any change in your dietary pattern......and keep monitoring your blood glucose levels at home frequently to see efficacy of any diet/lifestyle changes/medication- your body is your best teacher... And for your overall well being....keep monitoring all other vital parameters such as Lipid Profile, LFT, KFT, hsCRP, Blood insulin levels, BP, weight , Tread mill test/2d ecko , podiatry, Eye...etc., etc..

In fact, if you are a diabetic, it is a full time job to take care of your body .... You may not find time to do anything else!πŸ˜€

.....And kindly post your experience /result in this forum so that we can learn from each other.....

Currently I am on a Low carb diet and recently switched to a Low carb with focus on Mediterranean style.... though i came across this article today...

brigidmag.com/2018/10/resea...

21 Replies
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Jerry
JerryAdministrator

Hi namaha this is very interesting so thanks for posting, I think that there should much more focus on preventing diabetes and obesity.

2 likes
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Haldin21

Great article - very sobering news indeed to those advocates of low carb. Moderate carbs [MC/mc] seems more sensible than HC though. HF seems to also pose dangers to health as well and there are many studies correlating it with insulin resistance at the cellular level. It would be great too if you could also post links to a few landmark studies on this correlation or causation. This seems to suggest a MCLF/mclf diet for diabetics as a therapeutic approach instead. I read somewhere about the role of adiponectin and how it can help diabetics. Research actually shows there is an inverse relationship between adiponectin levels in your body and the amount of fat one carries. Anyway this has motivated Japanese researchers to launch a project to create a pill that can help raise one's adiponectin level to counter IR. Could you throw some light on this? Thanx.

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ticking-ticker
ticking-tickerStar
in reply to Haldin21

I have been diabetic now for over 10 years and have seen the good the bad and the ugly regarding the NHS and diabetes and was why I took on MY disease head on and made a point of learning what I needed to know and just how my body reacted to food, especially some food that others found fine to eat that my body reacted quite alarmingly with blood sugar levels way out of the norm.

Although I have also done my own research (appears that too needs some input on how to undertake) and found a study from two professors at Glasgow university and how they were able to reduce all medication in a majority of patients who undertook a strict calorie controlled diet.

I am living proof that this can work and went from 18.5 stone to 11 stone in one year and now no longer need insulin or Metformin or any other medical control. I rely on exercise, sensible eating with no alcohol or cigarettes. From a point of view of diabetic prevention, I would have thought that causation was quite evident for type 2, that being lifestyle and lifestyle and lifestyle - in 95% of all new cases. This has been the problem with our new automated lives, lack of exercise, good television and too much money to spend on junk food. Even our children demand, sweets, sugary drinks and packets of biscuits and crisps - just to keep them quiet, whilst watching "Coronation Street". There are no family meals, no encouragement for sport or other competitive sport and goodness knows, when computers become able to process the spoken word, even our fingers will become redundant!

My real reason for this reply lies in the post from Haldin21 and feel that somewhere along the line someone must have eaten a medical book for the post frightened the hell out of me just because of the level of information. technical terms and jargon held within - sorry Haldin21. Surely this place is for good old advice and our own experiences to an illness and not input that would be more at home on a university discussion with academics whilst undertaking a doctorate.

I noted with much pleasure the post from another contributor who put the point over so well when they said: -

8 Commandments for a Heart and Diabetic healthy life. I added Diabetes to heading since it is so pertinent)

* Sugar control.

* Blood pressure control.

* Cholesterol control.

* Diet control.

* weight control.

* Salt control.

* Habit control (smoking & alcohol).

* Mind control (stress-free life)

That is really all a diabetic needs to know when controlling their diabetes and as for "adiponectin levels" I have never nor do I wish to find out what it is or what it means for I have no need to know and are getting good results from sensible management with the assistance (in the beginning) from advice from NHS web help pages - anything else is down to the doctors. However my own doctor is just amazed with the way I have grasped my life and how I have changed it - all for the better. So with Mind Control, anything is possible.

Keep it simple and try and have faith in your own abilities and I for one always remember an alcoholics reply when they refused a drink saying that everyone has a quota of alcohol in their lives, I used mine up more quickly that others, so have to stop early. Surely that is very similar to diabetes and food and drink and worthy of thought?

2 likes
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sandybrown

Keep it simple, yes, NHS guide lines and help were different six years ago. Now, they have expert classes.

A link to Glasgow university:

gla.ac.uk/news/archiveofnew...

1 like
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ticking-ticker
ticking-tickerStar
in reply to sandybrown

I was aware of the study early in 2017 and what motivated me to try but thought the idea of a liquid diet a tad too harsh for me. Glad to know the research went live and thank you for promulgating the web page.

1 like
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ThreeSmiles
ThreeSmilesStar
in reply to sandybrown

Aha sandy so you know about the XPert Diabetes course too πŸ‘.

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Haldin21

LOL, if adiponectin frightens the hell out of you, you're welcome to look the other way . But, could you not dictate that others should post something that only tickles your exclusive fancies. This is just a forum and folks are free to bring up topics of interest and not everyone is necessarily interested in the same thing which is expected in a world of diversity. I am just replying to the link that @namaha posted re that great article about the long-term adverse effects of LC and while reading it, I remember coming across articles on the hormone adiponectin. If namaha is not interested, he won't respond to my request and that's OK. And who says that you have to know about this? Come on, stop ranting about yourself and your world - there are lots of people out there who lead different lives, have different interests, different philosophies. I happen to like @namaha's scientific approach and academic bent and interest after reading some of his posts. You may not like this line of inquiry, fair enough. But do assume that everyone else has to only follow you or your NHS.

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ticking-ticker
ticking-tickerStar
in reply to Haldin21

I was simply voicing an opinion - that is what free speech is all about. I was not in any way dictating to others, merely my own thoughts on over complicated posts that is really not the hub of the matter.

If you like what you do, that's excellent news and please be happy with it, however I am assuming (bad thing to do) this is a forum to help folk with diabetes not an advanced learning forum - just plain advice on how to manage ones diabetes, not about me or even, dare I say, you, but simply using our experiences as an example, as many others have, which means so much to people who need reassurances and a light to follow, not brow beaten with technical issues and long winded names and using abbreviations that a layman has no hope of understanding.

These are my own opinions, not a dig, just observations that hopefully might help.

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Haldin21

Voicing an opinion? Not a dig? Please! You are passing judgment on someone who is responding to @namaha's post and now you've got worse by judging it to be "brow beaten with technical issues and long winded names and using abbreviations that a layman has no hope of understanding." What's so technical about HF, LC, LFHF, LF. I even took the trouble of abbreviating moderate fat to MF! - the rest are common abbreviations that are tossed around a lot in this forum and elsewhere in the diabetic literature. If you haven't across them, then do more reading and don't blame others for your own ignorance. For your info, abbreviations are NOT "long-winded names" - if you have a problem reading and seeing clearly, get medical help fast. Yes, adiponectin is a technical name and the only one I used. If you don't know what it is, go google it up in an (online) dictionary. That's what is taught in the school and school kids can do that without being asked! I didn't invent the term and if you don't approve of it, go and find the person who created it and give him/her a piece of your mind and demand that s/he simplifies it to your personal taste and satisfaction. Go bark up the right tree.

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ticking-ticker
ticking-tickerStar
in reply to Haldin21

Well it is obvious from your reply that I appear to have struck a very sensitive issue with you. however to suggest I need medical help fast is deeply offensive and in others could begin to generate some nastiness, however everyone has a right to reply and I for one have always believed that sticks and stones do not break bones. I began my first post by saying I had no idea what the abbreviation meant and the post I know would do nothing to quell a newcomers feelings of trepidation. Are you not concerned about the new folk with their concerns? Do you think it appropriate to hold "High Brow" and deeply technical discussions with someone that is absolutely no help to someone that knows nothing about what you are talking about? Who is here for help to live with their new disease? You mention that I should stop ranting about myself and my world - there are lots of people out there who lead different lives, have different interests, different philosophies. I happen to like @namaha's scientific approach and academic bent and interest after reading some of his posts - so why not converse directly and continue your quest for studious information, there is no harm on that and probably less clutter with direct communication. By the way, how long have you been diabetic?

1 like
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ThreeSmiles

I think your post was excellent ticker. Matches my experience almost exactly as well. I have now been able to stop my Metformin too! Yippee . And this is despite me not being to exercise due to awaiting a back operation and a hernia following my liver TP which itself may require an op after my back op - so the Liver Consultant told me only this afternoon. Ah well .......can’t have everything 😁

I think you have done very well.

Miles

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sandybrown

At the end of the day action is necessary.

We all have to respect the effort people put in to come out of medication and enjoy life.

OR start on a life style change at an early stage of identifying a health problem.

2 likes
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ticking-ticker

Wow, how well have you done as well - to obtain the results you have without the advantage of exercise. There is one thing to remember, you are far fitter without all that fat, especially when going for an operation like the ones you await and make healing and recovery so much easier. Keep up the good work and keep the spirits up, soon al be over and on the mend for keeps. Good luck to you!

1 like
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ThreeSmiles

Thanks ticker ! And also to you πŸ‘.

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ThreeSmiles
ThreeSmilesStar
in reply to ThreeSmiles

Oh and by the way is your name significant? Anything worries me when I see a name associated with my ticker or should I say tick tick ~ tick ticker. 😁

Miles

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namaha
namahaModerator
in reply to Haldin21

Dear Haldin

Thanks for your views....

Adiponectin is a peptide hormone secreted by Adipocytes has been studied at length and is found to be linked to metabolic syndrome, Obesity, Insulin Resistance and type 2....

In fact the drugs such as Metformin and Pioglitazone are found to increase the serum level of adiponectin thereby enhancing insulin sensitivity......

Physical exercise and Calori restriction can also help secreting this hormone to some extent....so also some natural food like curcurmin, Ginger,....

Giving below links of two study reports !

Coming back to our topic of Carbs count, though the author was very critical on low carb diet for healthy people, it was recommended for

(1) obesity and (2) Type 2 diabetes. Even Calori restriction and IF was also recommended as an option....

The logic is that if T2's want to eat an extremely low fat diet.....

Then they have to eat more Carbs and Protein....

Protein recommended is 0.8 gm-1 gm per kg body weight. So if the body weight is say 60kg, then 60 gm's protein will give 240 Calories..... More protein than recommend amount would create nitrogenous waste and put pressure on kidney....

Then Carbs, how much max Carbs one diabete can eat ????

Carbs will demand insulin response and many T2' have issues with insulin production....

So even if one takes 100 gm Carbs max per day ( assuming pancreas producing reasonable amount of insulin), It would give 400 calories.

It works out to only 640 calories total....

Assuming the BMR is 1500 calories....

So if you take 100 gm fat , it gives 900 cal, which is 60% Of BMR.....

Well if you don't take calories equivalent to your BMR , life may not be sustainable at least for the thin Type-2, whose weight keeps decreasing - and many thin type 2's have weight as low as 49 kgs with bmi 18-19....

Thin type 2's may also have problem with Adiponectin and insulin level.... HOMA-B should be calculated by testing Fasting insulin and fasting blood glucose. And if it is too less, he should take exogenous insulin or an insulin secretagogue drug along with Metformin..In my view, LCHF would still help in reducing the insulin requirement and minimising the dosage of the drug..

Having said that, LCHF with Calori restriction/ IF is something very useful for Obese type 2... In reducing weight and improving IR....

Most of the studies conducted so far are only on Obese type 2's....

The Calori restriction/ IF is not recommended for those who have low BMI of 18-29... Thin type 2...

Adiponectin study links :

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK5...

hindawi.com/journals/dm/201...

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Ashka9
Ashka9
in reply to namaha

The article said low carb and keto is recommended for Weight reduction, epilepsy and diabetes if it is proved that it is beneficial to that particular patient but it is researched that it is harmful in the long run...that is what this post is trying to say. So, even if you are diabetic and following keto or LCHF say for about 10 years, mortality rate is about 50% due to cardiological issues, stroke etc...if you have read the complete article. My point is just changing the diet to drastic levels from what you have been eating since your birth is not going to give you more life span if all diabetics are trying to get HbA1c just below 5 by going low carb. My relatives who are diabetics do not follow any such low carb diet have been living quite a long life in their 70's having diabetes since they were in 40's. Medicines are enough. Just we need to eat sensibly. People doing keto diets for long have been getting cancer too...reports are there.

1 like
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namaha
namahaModerator
in reply to Ashka9

Dear Ashka9

Is anyone compelling you to follow a LCHF diet ?πŸ˜€

You are free to take any diet you feel right and whatever is helping you !

All of us are struggling with this disorder and we are just trying to learn as to how to manage it and reduce the severity and complications....and thanks to Healthunlocked.com for having given us this platform to exchange our views ! ☺️

As regards to the article, i did not find anywhere that the study was conducted on Diabetes ... implying that the study was conducted on healthy people..... if my understanding is correct...

Thanks

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Ashka9
Ashka9
in reply to namaha

Kindly read the article again. Almost 4.5 lakh participants were there in the study and unless this study is not done on diabetics, how it would be proved that it is helpful for improving either diabetes severity, complications or even just symptoms? My point is this study is from 4 countries of Europe done widely over a decade with so many participants, so we should just take a note of it. I am not suggesting, advising or even recommending not to follow LCHF or keto diets if that what ones to give a try for their lives. I am just saying it may be harmful in long run as this article says based on valid study as it seems to me atleast. Thank you.

3 likes
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ticking-ticker
ticking-tickerStar
in reply to Ashka9

All good points Ashka9- where my observations are to do with a balanced diet balancing calories to output with no other considerations other than fresh fruit and roughage. I also take vitamin D supplement and a multi vitamin with iron. I exercise daily and work in my garden and although I get tired, it is an honest tired. People make treating diabetes far to tedious, for what I have no idea, but if we can all keep it simple and understandable, then it will appeal to more people to understand and to have a go at making life changes. There is just one consideration to think about, do nothing and the disease will get worse and worse and will present with horrendous outcomes and illnesses. No one in their right mind wants that for anyone and without being super clever, the answer lies in the 8 commandments mentioned earlier: -

8 Commandments for a Heart and Diabetic healthy life. I added Diabetes to heading since it is so pertinent)

* Sugar control.

* Blood pressure control.

* Cholesterol control.

* Diet control.

* weight control.

* Salt control.

* Habit control (smoking & alcohol).

* Mind control (stress-free life)

Just ask your doctor and I feel sure they would wholeheartedly agree. I am not medically trained or doing in depth research, I have just learnt what my body needs and what I have to do to manipulate it to keep me off all diabetes medication. The answer is here, all one has to do is embrace it

1 like
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autumnsonnet

I forgot, ticking-ticker, are you from Northern England?

I seem to recall. . . Northern honesty is quite refreshing, too.

At some point, we all gotta be honest and get on with things.

I hope your garden is looking fantastic this time of the year, Sir. :)

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