Results of following LCHF diet till 15 Days

Hi all,

Yesterday I have completed 15 days of following LCHF diet. Within these days my carb intake was not more than average 115 gm per day, fat 90 to 100 gm /day & Protein 50-60 gm / day.

Before following LCHF diet my fasting BS was remaining @ 83-85 mgdl, PPBS after lunch 99-110 mgdl and PPBS after dinner 120-130 mgdl. And I was running average 12 km day. My life style was moderate active. And weight was 61.1kg

I have started measuring my BS on 5th day with LCHF diet till today 3 time daily to see the results of LCHF diet. Below is the average results for these 10 days.

Fasting Sugar 94-98 mgdl.

PPBS after 2 hour of lunch - 115-130 mgdl

PPBS after 2 hour of dinner 148- 160 mgdl.

During these 15 days I feel always weakness and not even able to walk 5 KMS.

My weight is 62.3 kg

So I think LCHF diet is not suitable for the person who has active lifestyle. Atleast for me.

Today again started balanced diet. Will share the results after some days. Currently I am very disappointed and frustrated with this result.

This is just my experience of 15 days. So please don't take it otherwise.

147 Replies

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  • To day I got ppbs result after 2 hours of breakfast------ one plantain , two coffees , one mixed grain roti . It is 130 . Of course I would check two or three times more . My test was in lab . I am not on any modern medicine or insulin. I am on my diet reduced in quantity------- 40 percent carbs , 40 percent proteins 20 percent fats approximately .I keep on experimenting with the ratios and changing the diet according to the needs .All the parameters are normal in tests which I had on 31march . I would check and post the result after mango intake . This year so far we didn't have ripe mangoes .We don't buy outside mangoes . our mangoes are organic and ripened in the house with hay .I do yoga , pranayama , mudras ,with 10 minutes walk inside the house .

  • What was the reason to start LCHF diet ? You are not a diabetic.

  • Why you interpret me as anti LCHF? This is 2 nd time I tried LCHF diet and both times results are same as feeling weak and tired always. So was just clearing my doubts about LCHF. does it mean I am anti LCHF? And I am not a paid promoter of any type of diet or medicine company. Have just shared my experience about LCHF diet and I have not forced anyone about any thing. This is just my experience and shared that in this forum if you don't like it than please ignore. And if there are more members like you than I am sorry will quit from this forum.

    Thanks

  • Was that out burst directed against me ?Then I am sorry to say that you misinterpreted my question.

  • It's not you. Just forget about it

  • Concern

    Within these days my carb intake was not more than average 115 gm per day, fat 90 to 100 gm /day & Protein 50-60 gm / day. If this is overeating than please suggest how much one should eat

  • I don't understand how you gained weight on less than 1600 kcal per day Raviga? Are you sure you haven't made a mistake?

    The weakness can't be due to your lowered carbohydrate intake because you would need to deplete your glycogen reserves first? Depleting glycogen tends to cause people to lose weight.

  • Don't know what is happening. I think weight gain is due to lower excercise and high fat

  • Certainly interesting. You went from a higher calorie intake to a lower one, gaining weight by eating more fat and less carbohydrate, but burned about 450 kcal less per activity session.

  • Yes bcz previous I was running average 12 km day in approx 1750 Cal plus always being active during the day. But now always like to seating idle due to weakness and walk less than 5 km

  • On the face of it, you seem to have a slow metabolism. Running 12km per day is likely to over-stress your body. I think running less distance, and every other/alternate day would be better for your recovery and health. I understand this would mean eating less than you were doing originally, and you might want to do some weight-training on the non-running days to build some muscle which will burn some of the calories.

    I agree, because you were so active, cutting down your carbohydrate quite so low may not be prudent for you, or indeed eating so much fat.

  • Actually I am on weight loss plan. My weight was 70 kg on 1st Feb and by running daily 12 km I am reducing my weight I have lost almost 9 kg and my target weight is 58 kgs hence I have reduced my calorie intake to Approx 1700 and increased excercise.

  • I gained also low carb high fat did NOT work for me either. Carbs help your brain function and help you not feel weak.

  • Since you are already fit and active, plus your BS is in control, Why have to taken to LCHF diet?

    Are you diabetic and taking meds. Please mention that part, which is not clear.

  • I started LCHF diet bcz many people is benefited with this.

    No I am not on any type of medicine previously I was consuming Paneer phool. But not now. LCHF is no doubt good as Ayurveda has also mentioned to reduce carb intake but some how it does not helps me don't know why

  • is 'Paneer phool' reason behind weight gain???

  • Not at all bcz I have stopped that before 2 months

  • Great...LCHF is becoming more and more popular....

    But very curious to know effect of LCHF on Chess players...

  • here I find what Vladimir Kramnik-Russian chess Grand master said....

    chessintranslation.com/2013...

    Do chess players have some kind of special diet?

    The approach to food is important for chess players and you have to pay attention to it. For example, sugar is, of course, absolutely necessary, as during a game we burn a lot of it. White sugar gives a quick burst of energy, but that peak soon abates, which is dangerous during long games. More useful is the sugar you find in dried fruit – in dried apricots or raisins. If you’re sure that a game will soon end then for a rapid effect you can eat white sugar or drink coffee. That lasts for about 15 minutes, then there’s a slump, and if the game hasn’t finished by that time your concentration level will drop.

  • Hmmm guess even chess player avoid sugar...

    chessdailynews.com/what-do-...

    …Radha Jain, under-9 chess champion

    Radha Jain is the English Girls Under-9 chess champion and is representing England at the World Youth Championships in Turkey this November. Discipline is her middle name.

    It’s really important to eat the right things before playing chess. I don’t eat sugar, or sweets, and I don’t eat just before my round, either, because that way you get sleepy. I don’t even have sugar the day before a match. I drink a lot of water, because thinking really dehydrates you. Bananas are good for concentration, though, and I’ll eat those between rounds.

  • I have heard that in a full adapted Nutrional Ketosis (subset of LCHF) state, Ketones is like Jet Fuel. As Dr Attia said in one of his presentations -- it's an entirely different feeling :)

    On the lighter side, wonder why ADA doesn't suggest playing chess to every High Carber Diabetic -- presuming brain is on overdrive wrt energy consumption when active.

    So, advise should have been -- Play 2 hrs chess with computer while having Cornflakes for Breakfast and Cheetos and Oreo for snacks, spiced up with Banana and Chocolate bites every 2 hrs :)

    In fact, I had asked about this, here or on the other forum. Why not play chess and lower blood sugar.

    Those who have RBS of 160 and yet claimed cured on Homeopathy should not try this :D :D

  • I really don't know if brain needs insulin for utilization of blood sugar..

  • chess1000.blogspot.in/2015/...

    Diet tips before and after chess tournament

    1. Make sure the stomach is not very full before tournament, or else the brain will work on the stomach instead of chess. Too much carbohydrate food will make you feel sleepy.

    2. Take lunch at least 2 or 3 hours before the tournament so that the food is close to fully digestion. Food needs 3 to 4 hours to digest. Avoid over stuffed your stomach with food until you have indigestion problem.

    3. Before tournament starts, eat a small portion of carb (for energy during the tournament) and protein for the brain to work.

    Kelly A. Hammer, a nutritionist and writer mentioned that “The carbs will help sustain the focus, while the protein will add to the needed nutrients for brain connections,” she explained. “Foods to eat before a long haul would be carbohydrates (veggies, grains, fruits, rice or potatoes) along with some protein—eggs, peanut butter, chicken, nuts, soy and yogurts are good examples. Carbs alone won’t cut it.”

  • These instructions hold good for any situation facing a challenge whether physical or mental.But here no mention of fats .

  • well swathy you are absolutely right in saying that...But look when we reduce consumption of carbs...we need to make up the deficit of total calories...

    for that we have to look for some alternative..

    and to make the same we need to consume fats...as carbs....fats will not spike insulin..

  • Philosophers support Low Carbs but they never tell us where to get energy from when carbs are cut down. I have been saying this since more than four years now. They consciously evade that question ;)

    One solution from someone was 50% carbs and 50% proteins as a suggestion but went silent on the science of it. Even Khali doesn't eat 50% proteins :)

  • Good fats are unavoidable if we go on low carbs...

    we don't have nay other choice...

  • Even Ants are intelligent. They don't like margarine but cling on to butter. Need we say more?

    But, dietitians push Margarine :)

  • ahhh they will go for sugar grain first....

  • I never mentioned Sugar.

    It's a choice between two fats -- Margarine (called great by Industry and their spokespersons as some even carry AHA's heart friendly logo -- after paying some bribe to AHA of course) and Butter :)

  • Brain is paramount organ of the body...

    Guess whatever brain needs..it will take by hook or crook...in shortage it will order liver to manufacture the same..

    I think brain also orders liver to stop sugar factory if BS raises above certain level...

    But mostly in diabetes...this signalling is affected...

    Even in strict keto diet Brain will use Glucose..and liver will produce the same...

  • Nope.

    I don't think Brain is 100% glucose dependent. That's a lie that ADA / mainstream wants us to believe just like the lie that Saturated fat and Cholesterol causes heart attack.

  • Well we really don't know...may be some medical professional like bhai suramo will able to throw more light on same...

    But does this means on keto diet brain works 100% on ketones??

  • But does this means on keto diet brain works 100% on ketones??

    Nope. Because no diet is ideally carb free, not even ketogenic one.

  • does brain uses ketones while we on normal diet??

  • if answer is NO...then using ketones should be considered as brains emergency response

  • Use of keytones is emergency response only . The emergency is artificially created by a disorder .

  • There can't be any substantial ketones on ADA diet. How can there be when men are getting physical appearance that's good enough to call them "pregnant men" because they are storing fat ;)

  • utilization of ketones by brain is alternative function....as survival process

  • Nope.

    It's like an alcoholic choosing between "Tharra" and Port Wine. Glucose is like "Tharra" :)

  • if it is so....why naturally we are not evolved to use ketones ??? why nature kept us utilizing Tharra???

  • How do u know we evolved using tharra?

    There was no organized agri 10,000 years back. Even after gathering nuts, the shell had to be broken manually.

    We switched to "Tharra" or were made to switch to Tharra by McGovern committe. Europe understood nutrition science even in 19th century. Americans screwed it -- that's what Gary Taubes says.

    When a baby is born she is in ketosis - neonatal ketosis

    ketotic.org/2014/01/babies-...

    The whole case against Prof Tim Noakes -- filed by some so called dieitian and her lobby -- was that tim Noakes "suggested" weaning babies into LCHF diet. Obviously Noakes WON after 4 grueling years ;)

    After 6 months we start making a baby addicted to "Tharra" by feeding Cerelac, Farex and after a year Kellogg's et al step in with worse kind of "Tharra" -- Cereal breakfast with kid served 30 grams sugar in B/F thru something that everyone calls as "healthy" :)

  • Nonsense.

    Pre-historic cave paintings show animal hunting and not Apple plucking from trees :)

    "Rob Dunn is a biologist at North Carolina"

    NC Dietitian board was the one who wanted Steven Cooksie jailed. Cooksie won. He is a Paleo guy and a diabetic so he would be one of the best persons to take on Rob Dunn :)

    I am really surprised by one fact -- Insecurity of the so called dietitians :)

  • This is diet of one society..who doesn't know about Rob..BOB and DUNN

    kalahari-meerkats.com/filea...

    Bushmen were hunter/gatherers, with traditionally about 70/80% of their diet consisting of plant food, including

    berries, nuts, roots and melons gathered primarily by the women. The remaining 20/30% was meat (mostly

    antelopes), hunted by the men using poisoned arrows and spears on hunts that could last several days. They made

    their own temporary homes from wood that they gathered.

  • Bushmen health, in general, is not good though:

    50% of children die before the age of 15;

    20% die within their first year (mostly of gastrointestinal infections).

    Average life expectancy is about 45-50 years; respiratory infections and

    Only 10% become older than 60 years.

    gastro infections -- too much fiber/cellulose causing havoc genetically too? Classic case of Suppressed immune system ?

    Not encouraging figure ;)

  • same is with Masai who fed on high fat high cholesterol diet.... life expectancy is not beyond 40/45

  • But they challenged the proponents of diet-heart theory. Best LIPIDS ... much better than Ancel Keyes clan :)

    I don't have any data on how many Masai kids died before 15 or during first year because of suppressed immune system

  • point is that carbs or no carbs is all depends on environment... and not by some studies conducted by Bob ..Rob...

  • That's a "Philosophical" view point because scientifically in any environment carbs, proteins & fats work the same way ;)

  • it is as simple as that..south Indians will use more coconut ...and North Indians will use more poppy seeds...

  • That's addiction not science :)

    Mix it with rice and wheat and it becomes disastrous

  • its availability...and survival instinct...

  • Currently, in web connected world, everything is available everywhere :)

    Currently food is no longer for survival. It's for entertainment.

  • 'Jio' is still not available for masai and Bushman

  • Pan India it is :)

    How many mobile phones get sold in India every year?

  • One more community away from Rob Bob research...living on instincts for survival...

    healwithfood.org/diet/kitav...

    What's more, the native people on Kitava do not suffer from obesity of even overweight despite the abundance of food that is naturally available to them on their tropical island. They have low diastolic blood pressure (all < 90 mm Hg), but total cholesterol concentrations are somewhat less favorable, probably due to the relatively high intake of saturated fat from coconut.

    Kitava has 2,300 inhabitants and the life expectancy at birth is estimated at 45, including infant mortality, and the life expectancy at the age 50 is about 75. While the life expectancy at birth may not sound like a lot, it is quite remarkable for a population with limited access to modern medicine. It is also important to consider the most common causes of death on Kitava, which include accidents (such as drowning), homicide, malaria, and pregnancy complications.

    Source: healwithfood.org/diet/kitav...

  • Concerned is expert on Kitavans. I will let him answer that :)

    Meanwhile, you can research about purple sweet potato. I am trying to see if I can find some just for trials :)

  • those are available in Pune I guess.... we call it ratalu...cousin of garadu

  • No garadu is different, i think. Shakarkandi (purple core) is the one that I am searching for.

  • we have purple sweet potato... but it is white inside...

    never seen inside purple variety yet...

  • Yes, looking for purple core :)

  • looks yummy.... but this must be some variation...

    I will search and will get back....

    But never seen this one...

  • Few baked slices coated with butter along with good coffee would be "Jannat"

    or even boiled and pureed and added to full fat hung curd :)

  • if we get few....we can grow same... it is very easy... you can grow them on your terrace..in some 2/3 buckets... enough for u to get months supply :)

  • it is cousin of garadu...

  • I'm not an expert on the Kitavans, sorry.

    I do know that 69% of what they eat on average is carbohydrate, so if they do have high cholesterol, why not blame it on saturated fat? Actually, if they have a low rate of heart disease that implies that neither saturated fat nor high cholesterol cause heart disease.

  • Killed two birds with one stone :)

  • cure

    "but total cholesterol concentrations are somewhat less favorable, probably due to the relatively high intake of saturated fat from coconut."

    I take lots of oil co and evoo ghee and sometimes sesame oil. My lipid profile on 21/4/17 - the day before yesterday.

    Total lipid :561

    t ch :154

    tg :110

    hdl :45

    ldl :80

    vldl : 22

    tg / hdl : 2.44

    "Local foods, such as tubers, fresh fruit, coconut and fish, make up the backbone of the Kitavan diet. The most commonly consumed tubers include yam, cassava (aka yucca or manioc), sweet potato (aka kumara) and taro. Common fruit include banana, papaya, guava, pineapple, mango, and water melon. The consumption of Western food is extremely low, with an average Kitavan spending a meagre 3 US dollars per year on Western foods. The intake of dairy products, tea, coffee and alcohol is close to nil, and salt intake is low by Western standards. Also the consumption of oils, margarine, sugar, grains and cereals is low. The overall fat intake is equally low, and most fat consumed is saturated or marine n-3 polyunsaturated fat (omega-3 fat from seafood)."

    😊😊

  • Good LIPIDS.

    TG needs to come down to sub 100.

    IR improved?

    So Saturated FAT doesn't spoil LIPIDS. Proved umpteenth number of time. Yet, those who do not like the science on medical reports will rant against FAT :)

  • @Anup

    Yes. No statins for 8 months. Only on metformin 1 g bd for last 8 days. But a1c a bit high 6.9. Don't know why because my 1 hr pp never crosses 140. Usually around 120. Fbs too around 130. The difference between lab and home readings are 20. Checked quite a few times. But i'm expecting my sugar control to improve gradually. Fbs 106 and s ins 4.74 while only on metformin.

  • Lab reads higher or lower vs the meter?

    What method used for A1C? The standard one or is it through some new toy which is in market, that uses some pen and dishes out 5 or 6 variables tests? Someone complained here on this forum itself, IIRC, that the diff between that instrument and standard test is very high.

  • @Anup

    Lab readings are lower because lab tests venous blood vs capillary blood in meter.

    A1c by gold standard Hpcl method.

  • Hmm. Then somethings don't add up.

    Tried cross verifying through some other lab?

  • Yes. That's what i'm also thinking

  • hmmm bhai suramo

    here something i guess @anup will be able to throw more light....

    for hba1c are u taking just average of lowest and highest readings?

    what is correct method anup ji?

    should we do that or should we consider time lag to come down to fasting level?

    or random sugar taken many times during the day and week will lead us to right hba1c?

  • cure

    Can't comprehend my a1c readings. My fbs in 130 +/- range at home. So lab results less by say 15 ( as such 20). So around 115. 1 hr pp is lower than that. What surprises me is 6.9= 154 bs. 🐒🐒

  • @anup plz comment....ur expert in meters and readings

  • Cross verify from different lab is the solution.

  • Well, technically, weighted average would be best but that would mean taking too many readings every day and then work out weighted avg.

    On a rough scale an average of fbs/rbs/ppbs should be fine for most cases. But, in suramo 's case even if we go by meter readings (which are higher than lab) avg things don't add up.

  • Bhai suramo hmmm try Phlebotomy /blood donation once...check after three months....

    I did that on 9th Sept 2016

  • My understanding is that less than 21% of their energy is from fat, but 17% is saturated fat.

  • my point was...we and our diet is influenced by surroundings....and not by research work of some Rob Bob...

    even many primitive societies then and even now consumes high carbs.

    It is our metabolic fault that we are not able to clear carbs efficiently...so we should control them...

    But saying carbs is not natural food of human..and carbs consumption is all due to some research work is far streched argument.

  • I think it's very difficult to get an objective view that isn't skewed by observer bias or vested interests.

    Many modern day fruits have been genetically selected for their sweetness and would not have been available in any great quantity to our far ancestors.

    Also it should be noted that the Kitavans' carbohydrates are low Gi, stimulating less insulin/IGF-1, as well as being tempered by significant amounts of natural fat such as coconut.

    In the Western world we have been led to believe that 'carbohydrates are safe' and 'our primary fuel', whereas this is only true within certain parameters. We should remember that the Kitavans are toward one extreme of a continuum (high carb, low fat), with Inuits (low carb, high fat) at the other. The healthiest way of eating is somewhere between.

  • The healthiest way of eating is somewhere between.

    Very true...

    Unfortunately,we are not efficient to clear carbs..so we are controlling carbs...

    However,in normal circumstances,our body does not produce ketones ...Body goes on producing same as survival response..and at that time reserves some glucose produced by liver to be used for brain..

    I guess this process makes us believe that carbs is primary fuel for our body.

  • It's our perception that is skewed.

    Mike Mentzer (a scientific bodybuilder) advocated a high carb diet, but even he acknowledged that ketosis was a natural consequence of burning fat.

    Carbs are used for intense activities that don't facilitate sufficient oxygen being available. However, such activities tend to be short; no one can do high-intensity activities such as weight training for very long. We can train long and diligently, but the longer we are capable of doing an activity, the more aerobic it has to be, and therefore a greater proportion of fat can be used as fuel.

    Our body has very limited reserves of carbohydrate compared to fat, yet we usually have sufficient.

  • hmmm what is percentage of grains?

    we consume lots of grains...

  • cure

    Why should we look back ? Our ancestors ate whatever was available at that time without the knowledge of carbs, prots and fats. They were never secure about food. Their life was different. Never rested so much as we are doing. Agriculture was started to defeat hunger and food insecurity. We are eating lots of grains but now we have started understanding the science. A very senior physician dr madhusudan parikh in my city says that we should not eat what we have to break with stone. So grains should be avoided as far as possible. Another colleague from other pathy says wheat is not our food. He too doesn't eat wheat but ragi, jowar etc for last 15 years. He is not D. So we do have /had a knowledge but during the period of slavery we were brainwashed. Even now when i tell people what i eat many reacts " ye to koi khana hai ?"!!. Our own coarse unrefined but healthy food is abhored by many. Even my family members insist on polished "basmati " rice though unpolished rice smells and tastes better. Cheaper too. 80 rs vs 30 rs. And newer generations will distort their face when asked to eat loaf made from jowar or bajra 🐒

  • cure

    whatever the original intake changes might have got introduced with time . Nature is subject to change . --------------- evolutionary change .

  • If only meat and fats were the preferential or compulsory diet , the mankind could have turned totally to cannabalism.

  • The life expectancy was not high and is not high in excess fat or just meat eaters .So much advancement had taken place with new findings . WE give the devil its' due . But modern materialism and greed is taking back all it's glory .

  • That's a bit extreme swathy. Even if the majority of the volume of food we eat is vegetables, we can still get most of our energy intake from natural fat; we don't have to be carnivores.

  • Concerned

    Problem is that they think LCHF means meat, eggs and chicken. Have seen such comments very often in the past too and they never tell us HOW they reached that conclusion.

  • swathy

    Protein and fats are preferential diet for diabetics, obese people and people with h/o familial dyslipidemia.

  • It's easy to get detriment from protein too.

    Natural fat is relatively inert, and we've been scared away from it for half a century. During that time, weight problems and diabetes have rocketed.

    We've been given a skewed paradigm of what optimal amounts of the macro-nutrients are. We're advised to base our meals on carbohydrates, when the body typically uses twice as much energy in the form of fat.

    Then some people responded with a rebound reaction, resorting to protein which in excess is easily converted to glucose and harmful side products that stress the body.

  • cure

    Excess protein upregulates mTor system which is responsible for cell division and cancer. So we have to restrict protein intake too.

  • besides increased risks for gout.

  • suramo yeah...we are poor in tolerating carbs..and proteins have other draw backs...we have left no option but to go for good fats..

    meanwhile,curious @anup bhai about your experiment about 'fats fast'..and out come of same...

  • I do agree , but singly taken either of that in excess is not good . I do agree that meat alone is not the source of protein . But many times in the forum it was mentioned that grains were later additions and the cave man sustained only with hunting the food . For that I gave a reply that in the evolutionary process many changes took place in food , clothing and general life style and grains were introduced to the food and with stood the effects for thousands of years .As distant as 5000 years back the mention of grains and pulses was there in our scriptures . In fact that happened much before that . I don't like your repeated demand for proofs and records . Since you have the doubt you have to go in search of them . Western culture of 2000 years , research of not more than 200 years is not the proof .

  • was their any blood sugar testing 2000 years ago? show me one proof in the scriptures where blood sugar testing was as accurate as it is today. merely saying something makes no sense. ppl won't look for proof for all u say. u have 2 provide them.

    one can't be living in era of before christ ad ad infinitum

  • here the reference is to food practices and not sugar testing . The point is about practices and habits about food and the relative safety .

  • have a suggestion for u. back yr comments with science and data. will save everyone's time, including yours as it would eliminate too much back-n-forth. here it is about diabetes and not cultures and other things.

    relative safety makes no sense when u have no records on health parameters.

  • Half baked theories are not authenticated records and are always subject to'U ' turns.

  • swathy

    It's not theory we are talking about. We are speaking what we are practising and getting results.

    Anup drugfree for 7 years. Shashi too with excellent a1c of 4.8

    me too. I have dropped 45mg pioglitazone i was taking and now only on metformin. Today fbs 117 & 124 two hr ppbs.

    Anup shashi and i are on lchf diet. And whenever we take high carb diet our bs report show high readings. So our conclusion is that being D we can't take high carbs if we want to control bs and avoid complications.

  • Leave them alone suramo . Some are back to old ways of senseless arguments. No point wasting time on them. When I started talking here in 2013, they said only two years. Now it is seventh year and they will not change their OPINION. Why care for their OPINIONS?

  • @Anup

    I'm not answering for them but there are many who may be misguided.

  • No issues suramo

    As expected, based on past history, the account goes off. Now expect the same person to come back with a new username (11th time I guess now), with same old stuff to repeat and the cycle will continue. talk some nonsense delete account, come back with a new account and again repeat same thing. I can even recall all the usernames of same user starting from 'kashi"

    Or who knows, a new account is already there in place so this one deleted.

  • irrespective of what u feel, sc will still thrive on data. if u don't value data that's yr problem.

  • If a person is capable and willingly run for 12 km daily,I do not see any reason for him to consider any radical diet plan.Are you a confirmed diabetic?If so, are on medication? Your target of 58 kg body weight seems very drastic.Please throw some light.

  • Care to explain how it is radical? What is the basis? At least medical reports don't show it is radical.

    If even with loads of insulin one cannot get down A1C to even below 6.0, I think it's time to call that diet "RADICAL". And, it just doesn't end at Insulin. Drugs for hypertension and statins are common too on that "non radical" diet.

    Prof Tim Noakes recently won a case (few days back) in SA court and the Dietitians from the so called "Non Radical" thought process lost, despite few million dollars spent and a battery of industry funded team of lawyers against :)

  • If you say it is not radical,fine with me.

  • yr friend posted something about ethics here:

    healthunlocked.com/diabetes...

  • Hi Anupji,

    I have noticed one thing for you is whenever one wants to clarify his doubt about LCHF you gives some quotes from ROB , BOB etc. Whom 90% of the world doesn't even know and I believe their theory is tested for let say 20-50 years. (May be this 90% people are not smart enough.) But sir evaluation and disease are takes time to grow and 20-50 years are nothing in this regard. Please don't consider me as anti LCHF. But I don't believe in any ROB / BOB. Who are inventing some theory and spread it to the world with data and proof of 20-25 yrs history. This is not wrong to follow the diet plan which suits you but we should keep in mind about side effects which are tested for thousands of years. Today every one knows about Ayurveda which is tested therapy since 1000s of years.

    Now this Ayurveda says that excessive of every type of food leads to problem and Ayurveda advocate the balanced diet. We should avoid excessive carbs as well as protein and Fat too.

    Now I know you will ask for proof so please read below. As excessive fat can leads to fatty liver disease. Also Ayurveda says to avoid excessive curd,milk, ghee. Seasum oil and seeds etc.

    Ayurveda also says that we should do regular excercise like walking, running. Swimming but you takes glory as you have stopped even walk. Now you're theory is totally opposite to Ayurveda. That's why many people gets confused to believe on what.

    Once again saying I am not anti LCHF. But I believe in aayurveda as it is tested for more than thousands of years.

    Please read article on GLAD as per Ayurveda as below.

    "Avoid Kapha increasing foods and lifestyle activities in FLD

    Kapha Prakopaka Hetu (Factors influencing pathological increase of Kapha) –

    Among many causative factors leading to pathological increase of Kapha the below said also influence the progression of FLD:

    Divasvapna – Day sleep, sedentary lifestyle

    Avyayama – Absolutely doing no exercise or activities

    Alasya – Spending the day lazily, Procrastination

    Excessive consumption of the food predominant in:

    Madhura – Sweet taste

    Amla – Sour taste

    Lavana – Salt

    Sheeta – Cold

    Snigdha – Oily or fatty

    Guru – Heavy to digest

    Picchila – Slimy or sticky

    Abhisyandi – Those which cause blocks in the body passages Ex. Curds etc

    Good Exercise, Healthy and digestible and balanced food, Avoiding Sweet and Fat predominant foods are also recommended as lifestyle changes to be adapted in the treatment and management of FLD.

    Thus we can infer that the Kapha increasing foods and activities can cause or trigger the progression of FLD and on the contrary avoiding or minimising them can help in the progression of the disease.

    Treat Excess Kapha in FLD:

    Food which are antagonistic to Kapha –

    Katu – Hot / Spice / Pungent taste

    Tikta – Bitter taste

    Kashaya – Astringent taste

    Ushna – Hot

    Ruksha – Dry

    Teekshna – Sharp, penetrating, intense

    Laghu – Light

    Anabhisyandi – Those which do not cause blocks in the body passages

    Activities antagonistic to Kapha –

    Vyayama – Exercise

    Vyavaya – Sexual activities

    Jagarana – Vigil or keeping awake at night

    Dhavana – Running

    Plavana – Leaping

    Langhana – Jumping / Jolting

    Niyuddha – Wrestling

    Unmardana – Rubbing and thumping the body

    Snana – Hot bath

    Parisarana – Walking, Brisk Walking

    Ushna Vasa – Staying in warm places

    Sukha pratisheda – Abstinence from comforts

    Therapeutic:

    Vamana – Therapeutic Emesis

    Teekshna Ushna Samshodhana – Intense, vigorous cleansing of the body by administering Vamana (therapeutic emesis) and Virechana (therapeutic purgation)

    Utsadana – Application of Kapha reducing pastes on the body and rubbing them

    Dhoomapana – Smoking (with kapha alleviating drugs)

    Upavasa – Fasting

    Pipasa – withholding the urge of thirst (not drinking too much water)

    Atapa – exposure to sun

    Pachana – Medicines which have Katu, Tikta rasa, hot and intense in action to improve digestion and to digest the ama (metabolites) and get rid of excessive fluid / moisture / toxins from the cells

    Udwartana – Massaging with medicated powders and pastes in the reverse direction of the hairs

    Note: Also avoid the Kapha prakopaka hetu’s mentioned above

    Meda (Fat) Link in ALD

    Medo-vriddhikara hetu: Foods and activities which increase fat

    Other cause for the manifestation of ALD might be the excessive consumption of foods and activities which tend to increase fat in the body and also reduce the capacity of the liver to process and digest Fat.

    But in the above said context we have found that Meda or fat is a Kapha element (rich in kapha). Therefore the same causes which bring about a pathological increase in Kapha also will increase Meda in the body. In the Medo-roga context (chapter dealing with fat related disorders and treatment – Ref- Yoga Ratnakara, Medoroga Nidanam) among many causes, Shleshmanahara Sevanam (consumption of Kapha increasing food and activities) is one chief cause which is said to cause a disturbance in fat metabolism leading to fat related disorders.

    Thus the same treatment, food and lifestyle changes which are advised in tackling excess Kapha and Kapha related diseases also hold good in tackling excess Meda and Meda related diseases including ALD.

    Other avoidable foods (avoid excessive usage):

    Masha – Black grams, Godhuma – Wheat

    Tila pishta vikruti – Preparations and dishes made up of paste of sesamum

    Dadhi – Curds, Dugdha – Milk

    Payasa – Sweet dish prepared on milk base

    Ikshu Vikara – Derivatives of Sugarcane like sugar, jaggery etc

    Anupa Mamsa – Flesh of animals living in marshy land

    Audaka Mamsa – Flesh of aquatic animals etc..

    Now if you say that Ayurveda has no any scientific backup. And there are no any data to prove. I can't do anything.

    I leave it upon you great sense, knowledge and wisdom.

    Thanks

  • How much blood sugar can we consistently hope to lower?

    IME-9, BGR-34 as i now are disastrous failures on humans. On horses, BG 34 had some 67% success but they never mentioned how much was the improvements. Who wouldn't love to eat 2 mangoes and have BGR 34 or IME 9 if they really worked.

    Only on TVC skyshop have I seen John and Johny dropping sugar levels using gymnedyn costing 2500 for 3 bottles -- 3 month dose I guess, not sure. In real world, it doesn't work.

    Who is ROB?

  • Anupji,

    Who has created this real world? I remember when I was child we used to rub salt and mustard oil paste on teeth with Neem datun. The Colgate people comes to us and were laughing on us than they provided free Colgate paste to all in our society, now they have add this Neem and salts in their paste why?

    Does Science changed in this 35 yrs? Before arrival of western culture in India no one knows about white sugar they made us sugar dependent and now they are promoting sugar free foods after this many years why? And I am sure after some time they will say suger free is also not safe and will invent something new with data and proof.

    I am not talking about any medication here but my point is what should be diet plan?

    The manufacturer of bgr34 and ime9 is not a non profit institution. They have created the med and labelled of Ayurveda.

    If in this real world Ayurveda does not works than please see the numbers how many people from western culture are following yoga and aayurvedic treatment. I hope this numbers are more than the follower of bob.

  • Ayurveda is just YOGA?

    I follow medical reports more than anything else sir ji. Numbers on report never lie and they don't need emotional punch too. For me, any culture that can help me manage my blood sugars in non diabetic range with zero medications I am happy to follow that. And, believe me, I am not alone on this thought.

    You never answered my question on BGR-34, IME9. I may have possibly added few more such same old wine in a new bottle type of products -- add methi, karela, jamun, vijaysar, gurmar, tejpatta, laung, heeng, mango patta, licorice etc etc in different proportions shake and mix them well and make a tablet and call it Diacare -17 then market it as some wonder pill :)

  • Anupji,

    Any medication will not work if you can not balance your input vs output Cal. If you don't do any excercise even god can not do anything.

    Ok one simple question you are following LCHF diet since long. Just eat higher portion of carb one day and measure the PPBS i am sure it will shoot up like arrow. But I am doing regular excercise in morning without restrictions of any carb but my PPBS does not shoot that much. Even I stop excercise for 5-6 days than also it does not shows major increase.bcz my IR gets reduced day by day. Before following LCHF diet my PPBS never crossed 130 without any medication or food restrictions. Isn't it good?

    And you are trying to change the topic by saying imotional punch and ime and BGR tablets.

    There are many members whom sugar does not gets controlled even after using insulin dots and tablets. So all these tablets are fake?

    And the main topic here is about diet plan and not about medication.

    And you are talking about karela and methi seeds does not works for you it doesn't mean it's not working on some one else. I have got my initial sugar control by these only.

    Same way LCHF does not worked for me 2 times so should you consider this useless?.Not at all Anupji bcz it worked well with others.

    My point is any excessive food type, it can be carb or protein or fat is not good for body. If you don't excercise the excessive fat got stored in body and the problem will starts.

  • Borrowed from Dr Steven Phinney wrt LCHF :

    If you decide to travel to Hawaii, fly all the distance. If you decide to halt half way you fall in sea with lot of sharks.

    IME9, BGR-34 is hot Ayrurvedic pill for diabetes these days with full page advertisements in leding newpspapers Heard that BGR-34 was awarded by Narendra Modi -- the company owners always got rewarded during NDA regime, last time was during ABV era :)

    I do not divert from topic. These two came in as context changed to Ayurveda. I din't change the context :)

  • Anupji,

    In Ayurveda diabetes has been described at micro level (deeply) and not at high level as per modern science. Same way treatment for each type of diabetes is different.

    According to Ayurveda There are 20 forms of Diabetes (Prameha): 4 are due to Vata, 6 result from Pitta, and 10 are caused by Kapha. But Diabetes (Prameha) is mainly caused by kaph( Fat)

    Each treatment is different for each type of diabetes. Like if you have diabetes caused by kaph and you are on medication which cures diabetes caused by pitta. It will not work. I guess mejority of patients does not know which type of diabetes he has. And they starts medication blindly which is cheeper, widely available and tests good. Instead they should analyze their Life style first to identify for which type of diabetes they are suffering from and than should starts the medication

  • Like I analysed my lifestyle and found that I was having too much sweets and fat which may be cause to make me diabetec. And accordingly I have started methi seeds and karela juices for about 20-21 days and it helped me to control the sugar spike.

  • Anupji

    "Borrowed from Dr Steven Phinney wrt LCHF :

    If you decide to travel to Hawaii, fly all the distance. If you decide to halt half way you fall in sea with lot of sharks."

    Is there any importance of this line in this topic? As I can not see here any link with LCHF.

    "BGR-34 was awarded by Narendra Modi -- the company owners always got rewarded during NDA regime, last time was during ABV era :)"

    I am not political leader or I am not supporter of BJP or CONGRESS or any party. Why are you trying to change the topic by involving English quotes and political issues in this debate?. If you are no longer interested in sharing your views about this topic. Than it's fine. Leave the topic here. But please give me your views on " if you eat more n more Fat and not burning that excessive fat by excercise. Where will this fat go?" Request you to Please give me a specific answer without spamming the topic by giving another unknown quote by someone.

    Thanks

  • Yes it is relevant, because Dr Steven Phinney is not unknown in LCHF circles. Try eating more and more fat and don't exercise and see what happens. Make sure you are restricting carbs to 20% max if you do so.

    Eating FAT doesn't make you FAT. Carbs are fattening. No spam, no politics in this statement. Good for you if you can control diabetes through Karela juice.

  • Anupji, I eat more n more Fat only till I dignosed. We were having 2 cows and 1 buffalo and I was consuming cow ghee, almonds, peanut. White butter, curd , Paneer and I hate karela and methi seeds at that time. I was not eating chapati too much but was like to have sweet made by cow milk. And the results is now I am diabetec.

    The difference is that time I was unaware about the fact that these items are fat ( cow ghee, milk, curd, almonds, peanut etc.) And I was overweight by 12 kgs my belly was like pot. These all are results of having high fat only. And it took 40 yrs to made me diabetec. So you can not see the difference within 7 years.

    The fat which was I used to consume was not conteminated by pesticides and other chemicals as my mom's makes butter, ghee etc at home only.

    Now please give your views on my question " where the fat goes if you consume extra and do not excercise"

  • When insulin is low because of eating low carbs, fat is metabolized to energy. When u eat high carbs and higher fat, that's a deadly recipe for troubles, because when you eat HIGH CARBS, you are running on overload of energy through glucose which first fills all the glycogen stores and then starts storing as fat. In short, you have no control so you have to run 12km

    I don't think anyone would run 12 km on a Low Carb High Fat Diet to control weight. I don't even walk at all. Fat kills hunger so whereas you can eat 1 kg potato baked wafers (low /zero fat), u simply cannot eat 500 gms butter every day. try it. Go through my old posts you will know a lot.

    High carbs make you more hungry.

  • I don't think so. As I am having balanced diet ( high carb as per your term) i eat only 3 times a day and does not feel hungry in between..

    An average active male ( who do exercise for at least 30 mnts a day) with age of 40 yrs have BMR not more than 1500 Cal a day. Now you says you are not doing any excercise so your BMR should be in between 1200 to 1500 Cal a day. Suppose you are having 10 gm extra Fat per day which you can not burn through BMR and you are not doing any excercise. So this extra 10 gm fat will be stored in body and in 30 days this will be 300 gm fat will burden on liver and slowly it increases, resulting in FLD. which is according to aayurveda one of the main cause of 48 types of other metabolic disorders.

  • Do u know BMR also varies with HCLF being the lowest and ketogenic being the highest and LCHF that we follow being in between the two?? These fancy terms don't apply across the board. Read more sir ji and do the real hair-splitting.

    try going into Nutritional Ketosis just for 4 days and tell me how much can you eat fat. Calorie in/out is a failed theory. Consumed MCT and all goes out -- as energy available for consumption or removed thru pee --with nothing stored. No running needed.

  • Do u know BMR also varies with HCLF being the lowest and ketogenic being the highest and LCHF that we follow being in between the two??

    How much is the variance sir?

  • Study more sir before you start getting BMR concept into discussion and extrapolate understanding of high carb diet experience to LC range. Doesn't work. You will find some discussion on this on Dr Peter Attia's site. Hunt for it.

    U don't need to run to breakdown fats:

    eatingacademy.com/wp-conten...

    The so called healthy and balanced diet is the red box. So, people don't get fat because they eat more and exercise less. People get fat because of influence of INSULIN (which no "balanced diet" proponent ever talks). What kicks up INSULIN? Simple answer CARBS the most and so called balanced diet is 60% CARBS. That's why you have to run 12 km/day and I don't even have to walk :)

  • Having high BMR does not mean that we should have more n more fat. In young age everyone's BMR is high but as time goes BMR gets down.

    I have not seen a single case who died due to over exercise but have seen many cases where people died due to fat.

    Btw I already realised the benefits of good FAT in this 40 years. And may I not compete you in English quotes.

    So let's stop the debate here. Further only time can prooves the benefits and disadvantages of the same.

    Thanks for your valuable time and quotes.

  • By adding up Fat to u r body, you are just controlling the BS spike while reducing the fat through excercise I am reducing the IR.

    Thanks

  • No I am improving my IR by keeping insulin low, by keeping carbs low and by dropping triglycerides lower. Fats come in because I have to keep carbs low. What is your TG & HDL?

    6 years medication free is not a small time by any standards and 40 years of Dr Bernstein on LOW CARBS as a Type 1.

    Now, I am into seventh year medication free. And, I am not just a unique case. Diabetics even with 20 years of history have dropped medicines by 80% and yet improved medical reports. Many have even gone off all medications.

    People died due to FAT gotten from carbs conversion to fat due to elevated INSULIN mixed with PUFA loaded Oils. Science still hasn't been able to find any correlation between SFA and CVD/CHD in 40 years. They are still desperately trying.

    Even Sydney Diet heart study of the last century got exposed recently. They fudged the data by dumping some part of not so comfortable data in a garage just to show how great PUFA is. When the recovered data was merged with the study, the results were opposite :)

  • Ok thanks but try once by having little higher portion of carb. You will see how much IR improved. In my case previously when I was having 4 chapati with mung dal my BS shoots to somewhere around 270 mgdl now it remains @ 140-150 even if I do not walk. So I can say that my IR little improved.

  • I have 20% carbs max in my diet. That's because I don't want to fill my liver to the brim with glycogen.

    I started with PPBS of 229 in Feb 2011. Now running into 2017 and I hit non diabetic numbers without walking.

    Check your fasting insulin with fbs in lab. Blood sugars can also be brought down by keeping elevated insulin levels. That's how TYPE 2 begins. Over stuffing the body with insulin.

    My aim is 120 for PPBS at 2 hr, and A1C of 5.6 or lower.

    Only 4 chapatis? I can tolerate 1000ml Amul Kool too whenever I want to but I know what I am doing and how to manage it without walking and running:

    healthunlocked.com/diabetes...

  • But my A1c is already 5.3 in Jan. And today FBS is 82 will recheck my A1C on 30th this April. May be it goes up as in this 3 months I have tried so many diet change experiment that has increased my average PPBS from 110 to 140-150

  • My days of experimenting with diet changes were over in Jun 2011. I have stuck with it and preaching the same to over 1700+ along with many others like me who are helping Indian diabetics selflessly now :)

  • One more thing after heavy breakfast my ppbs goes down than FBS. In lunch it remains around 100-110 but in evening it remains @ 120-127 range. Though after 3 hours it gets close to what it is before dinner.

    Don't know why. Do you have any idea on this?

  • I can't comment with conviction as we mostly live by 2 meals a day theory. Intermittent fasting @ Dr Jason Fung.

    Reason: Let insulin drop further or stay lower for longer period of time and let body live longer on fat burning mode. Why spike insulin 3 times a day. Why not only twice a day.

  • I think you are perfectly fit and healthy.. It is best to stick to what suits you and what you like eating. Personally I don't believe in any kind of fad diet. I stick to regular 50 Carb 25 Fat and 25 Protein or something close to that.

    I am 50 doing great. Just did my first full marathon. did 9 Half Marathons earlier.

    I am maintaining my weight for past 30 years at 70-71 Kgs.

    I enjoy my meals - Mindfully. I enjoy my fitness runs, aerobics, and Yoga.

    I think you are in good health with perfect body... Stay healthy, stay fit and stay happy! :)

  • I agree we are all different and we each have to find what suits us - no one can tell someone else what to eat, but it is good to listen to others and see what keeps them fit.

    I eat on demand and muscle test to see what I need - if we all ate what we needed and not what we want I am sure we would be a healthier nation.

    No particular diet suits me, just eating what I need at the time - i.e. if I am being energetic I need different food from when I am relaxing - common sense really as a car needs more petrol if you drive more miles.

    I don't know what all the fuss about diet is really about - probably 'control' as are most things in this life!

  • Dt_RiyazKhan_Hyd

    "I stick to regular 50 Carb 25 Fat and 25 Protein or something close to that."

    Are you diabetic ? What are your numbers ? Lab reports ?

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