Prebiotic Probiotic Antibiotic... What's ... - Cure Parkinson's

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Prebiotic Probiotic Antibiotic... What's the deal?

JayPwP profile image
20 Replies

Ok... Antibiotic is just added to the post title for rhyming. This post is not about antibiotic.

So what is this about?

Bacillus Subtilis PXN21 beneficial for PD... And Bio-Kult sells out.

Thankfully pvw2 pointed out that any Subtilis strain works

L. Plantarum PS128 beneficial for PD... And Active Health Mind/ Active sells out.

Not sure if other Plantarum strains have similar effects.

B. Subtilis & B. Licheniformis combo works, Bear1927 reported. I searched everywhere for the combo, but couldn't find it. Contacted Probiotox but they only delivered within Ukraine.

Thanks to chartist for sharing the research that 6 strains (L. acidophilus, L. fermentum, L. plantarum, B. longum, B. lactis, S. boulardii) along with 5 grams of Inulin FOS significantly increased SCFA. This may be beneficial by indirect action.

These 6 strains are commonly found in most multi-strain probiotic.

I am trying to figure out how Butyrate fits here. Clostridium Butyricum is a Butyrate producing bacteria. Butyrate is an SCFA and also fuel for the gut lining.

I am seeking your unbridled opinion. The intention is to form a model for improving gut and brain health.

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JayPwP
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20 Replies
chartist profile image
chartist

You are asking for data that is primarily at animal level testing.

Clostridium butyricum is only one bacteria that can produce butyrate, but the other dominant SCFAs are also needed for proper gut function and promoting synthesis of these is needed for proper gut function. In the following study link that I included in my recent post, " Is There A Natural And Available Alternative To Fecal Microbiome Transplantation (FMT) ? ", It explains that synbiotics with higher dose inulin, significantly increase SCFAs and the anti inflammatory mediator IL-10 which is more health promoting than just increasing butyrate alone :

sciencedirect.com/science/a...

Here are a few relevant study quotes :

' A 12-week multi-species synbiotic supplementation in patients with dyslipidemia resulted in significant increases in fecal SCFAs including acetate, butyrate, propionate, and valerate in the intervention group. '

' The synbiotic supplementation also increased serum anti-inflammatory cytokine IL-10 levels. '

' The synbiotic supplement contained six species of probiotic microorganisms along with inulin and FOS as prebiotics. This formulation may be considered a promising adjunct therapy to improve GM metabolites and metabolic status. '

Melatonin increases SCFAs, including butyrate in the gut microbiome as discussed here :

microbiomejournal.biomedcen....

And here :

sciencedirect.com/science/a....

Butyrate in turn induces melatonin synthesis in the gut as discussed here :

melatonin-research.net/inde...

The melatonin increased SCFAs, acetate and propionate induce melatonin receptor synthesis as discussed here :

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/312...

This combination of events helps alleviate a perturbed gut microbiome as seen in PD and many other health conditions and helps to restore gut barrier integrity to help ameliorate leaky gut and gut dysbiosis and the negative health effects associated with these two.

Keep in mind that all of the above activities decline with age and even more so in PwP so it seems reasonable to try and alleviate this decline in order to try and maintain better health.

Art

JayPwP profile image
JayPwP in reply to chartist

Thank you Art

park_bear profile image
park_bear

>"Thankfully park_bear pointed out that any Subtilis strain works."

Cannot take credit for that one!

JayPwP profile image
JayPwP in reply to park_bear

I remember you pointing that out

park_bear profile image
park_bear in reply to JayPwP

It is possible I might have said something and then forgotten, however I searched and could not find it.

JayPwP profile image
JayPwP in reply to park_bear

You are right... It was pvw2

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

JayPwP profile image
JayPwP

I am not endorsing the below products nor have I used any of them. Just found the label interesting.

Label says Subtilis, Licheniformis, Clostridium Butyricum and others

* ZEROHARM Gut Army Probiotics Supplement For Men & Women |100 Billion CFU & 25 Strains | Gut Health Capsule for Gut Cleanser, Digestion, Acidity Relief, Gastric Medicine, IBS Symptoms - 60 Vegan Tablet amzn.in/d/ivO3SaR

Label lists the 6 strains and others

* Limited-time deal: Boldfit Probiotics Gut Health Supplement 30 Billion CFU For Men & Women with 16 Strains & Prebiotics - Supports Digestion, Immunity Support, Detox & Cleanse - 60 Vegetarian Capsules, White amzn.in/d/eopYCaa

* Deal of the day: Carbamide Forte Probiotics Supplement 50 Billion for Women & Men – 60 Veg Capsules amzn.in/d/a5g7f1k

coffeewithcream profile image
coffeewithcream

globalhealing.com/products/... This is the probiotic that helped me heal my gut. This company sells high quality products.

Trig27 profile image
Trig27

The human body is quite adaptive. Our cells can use many different energy sources, glucose, fatty acids, SCFAs, ketones. It is well established that in Parkinson's glucose metabolism is disturbed. Whether this is the cause of neuron death has not been definitively proven.

You mention a lot of bacteria strains and seem to think that these strains are the key. The bacteria need something to ferment. If they have something to ferment they will prosper. They ferment fiber, so the way for your gut to produce more SCFA is to eat more fiber. Most Americans eat little fiber and have eaten little fiber for their whole lives. Eat a lot more fiber and you will produce a lot more SCFA, including butyrate. You can take all the strains you want and if you don't eat fiber there will be little SCFA production.

The easiest problem to solve is the fiber problem. It's a lot more difficult to get the correct microbiome, especially since we don't even know what that is. Eat more vegetables. A lot of vegetables. And have your kids and grandkids do the same.

nature.com/articles/s12276-...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

biosignaling.biomedcentral....

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

frontiersin.org/journals/en...

academic.oup.com/nutritionr...

JayPwP profile image
JayPwP in reply to Trig27

I don't. The studies seem to suggest and results in a sales spike 😁😁😁

Trig27 profile image
Trig27 in reply to JayPwP

Sales of bacteria and powdered fiber, not vegetables!

bassofspades profile image
bassofspades

my uneducated opinion, I’m relying on my GUT intuition, here…lol…

I think if you eat a consistent healthy diet, it takes care of itself.

Bacillus Subtilis PXN21 - I tried it for several weeks, no difference.

I think possibly people are putting too much emphasis on supplemental probiotics and it’s creating a lot of SIBO cases (small intestinal bacterial overgrowth)

Just my gut intuition, I don’t know if it’s accurate.

grower profile image
grower in reply to bassofspades

Bacillus Subtilis was recommended to help stop the silverleaf in our plums...

miros92 profile image
miros92

Please review Dr. Mercola's Complete Probiotics which contain 10-strains of bacteria plus the necessary prebiotics that crosses the blood-brain-barrier. His products are on his website and Amazon: 1200+ 4.6 overall rating review.

products.mercolamarket.com/...

amazon.com/Dr-Mercola-Compl...

pantologist profile image
pantologist in reply to miros92

I understand Sugar Shift probiotic with specifically formulated for Parkinson's .

Chillla profile image
Chillla

I just started taking l-reuteri by fermenting it in yogurt, or as close to yogurt as it tastes. Look up Doctor William Davis on YouTube and you'll find many of his explanations on gut health as relative to brain health. It is definitely interconnected. He just wrote a book that explains it all in detail. It's called Super Gut. He also gives recipe for the yogurt.

jeanette2372 profile image
jeanette2372 in reply to Chillla

I would love to know how that goes for you. I have just ordered his book.

jeanette2372 profile image
jeanette2372

I hadn't heard of sugar shift before. I was thinking of ordering the sugar shift starter culture. Has anyone tried that?

gomelgo profile image
gomelgo

I am on the FLORÈ program. So far I have only been taking the "prime" packet for 7 days. It's supposed to prime your belly for the full dose, which I will begin tomorrow. This is a membership program that tests your biome, and then sends you what they find missing. flore.com/ Definitely has made some difference so far, but not sure yet of my impression. Gut and brain are definitely connected, that's all I would say. I did take sugar shift for several months, and it didn't work for me after the first week or so.

jeanette2372 profile image
jeanette2372 in reply to gomelgo

Thank you for your reply. I hope your new program has a positive result. 🙂

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