It's a shame the c25k app keeps going on about stretching, there's only research that actually shows it increases the likelihood of an injury.. can whoever makes the app look into this? Don't take my word for it.
Why all the stretching?: It's a shame the c25k... - Couch to 5K
Why all the stretching?
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Johnbob2k
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33 Replies
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RoxdogGraduate
Hmmm. Well, research or not, if I didn't stretch after my runs I would be hobbling about.
IannodaTruffeMentor
Welcome to the forum.
The correct stretches at the correct time seem to work for most people most of the time.
Can you please link to the research that shows otherwise.
This guide to the plan is essential reading healthunlocked.com/couchto5...
and includes advice on minimising impact, stretching after every run, hydration and strengthening exercises, all of which will help.
Enjoy your journey.
Instructor57Graduate
Welcome to the forum and the program.Do read the program guide linked to by IannodaTruffe .
It's full of useful information to help you through the program
Also, Please point us in the direction of the research you refer to !
It's a very, very common misconception that stretching helps prevent injury.. Indeed I believed this for years, elemental.medium.com/i-quit... you can Google it and find a lot of up to date evidence showing indeed it doesn't help prevent injury... Strengthening exercises do though. And stretching does feel good, I can't take that away from anyone!
Interesting , however limited article .also as suggested in my reply to MydogWinnie we are not suggesting 'Static' stretches as pre run excercises as this can be problematic.'Dynamic' for pre run and 'Static' for post run .
We would also recommend strengthening excercises
Hello Instructor57. Could you please provide a link to the difference between static and dynamic stretches. Which to do when? Thank you.
Hi, both are linked to from the program guide , however as you asked for the difference here is a link to an article I have just found .Hope it helps .
hss.edu/article_static_dyna....
Thank you.
Still one of the best meta-analyses:
Br J Sports Med. 2014 Jun;48(11):871-7. doi: 10.1136/bjsports-2013-092538. Epub 2013 Oct 7
As Cmoi points out, this comes with loads of caveats due to the limited scope of the studies used.
On a personal note, in spring last year I was not doing the full set of NHS stretches (and not doing some of them correctly) which led to muscle imbalances and a pulled adductor muscle which needed a physio visit to identify.
The post run stretches are a good way of cooling down the muscles.
Pre-run stretches are different in nature and are there to warm up the muscles.
An interesting albeit a very limited study .And as previously mentioned pre and post run excercises would be different.
' Dynamic' for pre run and 'Static' for post run .
Mixing these up could be problematic
CmoiGraduate
The NHS C25K mobile app was a joint project between the BBC and Public Health England: gov.uk/government/news/couc...
I gather that PHE has now been replaced by two organisations, one of which rejoices in the name of the Office for Health Improvement and Disparities: gov.uk/government/organisat...
Having skimmed the publication to which I believe MydogWinnie is referring (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/241... it doesn't actually indicate, as far as I can tell, that stretching increases the likelihood of injury, but rather Stretching proved no beneficial effect. It also notes: Our data do not support the use of stretching for injury prevention purposes, neither before or after exercise, however it should be noted that this analysis only included two studies on army recruits and one internet-based study on the general population.
Whatever, I quite enjoy post-run stretches, which I don't do for injury prevention purposes anyway.
This is an interesting debate, and I am actually surprised hasn't come up before! Thank you for posting it.
The research is suggesting that stretching may have no overall benefit, but as with a lot of these sports studies they tend to focus on (male usually) healthy competitive athletes and so, although they provide useful knowledge, the findings possibly are not so applicable to the running community at large.
If done with care stretches after warming up do no harm - we must be careful to make sure that we don't hold a stretch that puts us past a feeling of slight discomfort because injuries can occur. The stretches recommended in the C25K app are supporting an all-day approach to fitness, which is to say that it is helping people to understand that a long-standing fitness habit probably won't be found with the mindset of - yay, done my 30 minute run, now I can sit down for the rest of the day!
Learning that we can enhance our fitness by varying our exercise and by supplementing it with self-care techniques is valuable. Introducing a careful stretching routine is one very useful way of teaching this.
Additionally, many people find benefit from routines such as stretching, foam rolling, Epsom salt baths - all of these activities have been found to be of questionable benefit. But the point is that many people find benefit - basically it's all good!
NB the app developers do not visit this forum regularly. If you would like to raise an issue with them you will need to contact them via your app store.
Good point, on reflection maybe I shouldn't have posted this as it's possibly quite confusing, and I am probably not really couch to 5k's intended audience (I'm just using it to recover from a running injury). Perhaps that's not fair of me.
Certainly in terms of running performance, stretching beforehand can be detrimental. Though as stated above - we're not running a race here! My bad, apologies for my one sided view.
Ha yeah, I meant to say "stretching after a warm up does no harm" 😄 In fact I will edit my comment for the benefit of others.
No worries at all, it's good to have all views! I am somewhat in the same position as you, as I originally did C25K out of nothing more than curiosity - I was already pretty fit. But it has given me an incredible gift!
Sorry to read about your injury, hope you sort it out asap! xxx
After my first few runs of C25k, nearly nine years ago, I could hardly walk up or down the stairs as my quads were so tight. After consulting this forum I saw the recommendation that stretching after a run nhs.uk/live-well/exercise/h... would probably help. It did. After static post run stretching, the aches and stiffness disappeared and I continue to stretch after every run to this day. This is only anecdotal, but after wide reading across many running based topics, when I came to write the guide to C25k healthunlocked.com/couchto5... several years later, it was an obvious candidate for inclusion, along with the advice that static stretching is not advisable before a run.
My reading, which continues unabated, uncovered a tangle of contradictory advice based on studies, research, anecdote and confusion (along with a lot of evidence of random cutting and pasting) about every single aspect of running, from breathing, hydration, diet, stretching, warm up, cooldown, gait analysis, footwear, posture, form, training, injury and recovery, etc. etc..
Making sense of this can, and does, cause confusion for all of us and ultimately you have to make a decision which advice you wish to believe, for the time being at least. As I point out in this post healthunlocked.com/couchto5... sometimes what we would deem to be reliable sources have to be questioned, so the only answer is to keep reading and keep an open mind as well as asking others for their opinion..
Stretching, as both you and the author of the piece you link to agree, can improve flexibility and for the demographic of this forum, that improvement can be hugely beneficial. This poll healthunlocked.com/couchto5.... gives an idea of the age of our membership, many of whom have not done any exercise for many years. They are not the (by definition) fit and healthy army recruits in the cohort of the trial mentioned.
My reading of Christie Aschwanden’s piece is that she was either poorly advised or misunderstood the recommendations for pre exercise stretching. As pointed out in the guide to the plan, if you need extra warm up beyond the five minute brisk walk, then some dynamic stretches can help get those muscles supple and flexible, by increasing blood flow. She was doing static stretching pre run, which we do not recommend, as it can, as she says, lead to a reduction in muscle power.
I stand by my recommendations in the guide, but am happy to have them questioned. I am by no means an expert. I don’t believe I link stretching with injury prevention in that piece and I do encourage new runners to do strengthening exercises………so we are not so far apart.
As for trying to get the C25k app developer’s to change the content of the app and podcasts, you are banging your head against a brick wall. Inexplicably, there is a recommendation to try to strike the ground with your heel as you run. The admin team of this forum have tried repeatedly to get this removed, as the vast majority of recognised authorities on running would agree that heel strike is the least desirable form of footstrike, as it maximises impact stresses and is far more likely to lead to injury than stretching………..we have had no luck.
Wow, that is scary.. I don't think I noticed it saying that. I run in minimal shoes myself and with a barefoot style.
Tim, I'm pretty sure the heel strike advice has been removed from the app - it was in Week 2 wasn't it?
I will check. It was there last time I listened. I am in the middle of editing the How To Run C25k post, so it would be good to lose it.
I won't celebrate just yet.
There have been a few updates recently
........and to the podcasts?
Ah no. I doubt it anyway!
One of the worst things about the podcasts was "Julie" being right at the start of the Week 7 or 8 playlist. How did they expect me to run for another 25 minutes or whatever without her to look forward to?! 😱🤣
Some people love that earworm.........but I don't want to go there!
I couldn't do the podcast music at all! 😂
"Julie" was a rite of passage that the app generation are deprived of. I am sure we are tougher for it.
😂😂😂
Just be thankful I didn’t do the podcast music… people would end up fitter but needing therapy!
Truly?! 🤣🤣🤣
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