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When We Have CLL, Why We Need Particularly need an Immunome. (Why neutrophil and immunoglobulin counts don't measure immunity all that well)

AussieNeil profile image
AussieNeilPartnerAdministrator
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Given CLL compromises our immune system in many ways, healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo... this Ground Truths article by Dr Eric Topol, is extremely relevant regarding the current inadequacies of standard blood testing for measuring our risk of infection!

open.substack.com/pub/erict...

It is startling that here we are in 2024, recognizing how critical our immune system is for protecting us against infections and major diseases, such as cancer, and how it tells us about our aging process (immunosenescence), yet we have no informative clinical test to get at it.

The crude way we can assess our immune system is from a complete blood count (CBC) looking at the white blood cell (neutrophil) to lymphocyte ratio (NLR). It is a very rough assessment of the balance between inflammation (neutrophil count) vs immune system (lymphocyte count) and is associated with a poor prognosis for cancer, higher risk of major cardiovascular events, infection, and all-cause mortality. The associations are statistically supported but of little help for interpretation at the individual level. Accordingly, most clinicians don’t even look at it.

Back in 2015, I was excited about a report in Science on VIrScan. A drop of blood detecting antibodies— to >1,000 virus strains from over 200 species—could tell us about every virus a person has been exposed to and when for as little as $25! A sample of output for 14 virus strains is shown.

:

Throughout the Covid pandemic we’ve seen the importance of T cells—helper CD4+ and cytotoxic CD8+—from research studies, telling us about our immune response to the virus, its many variants, and vaccines. But none of these T cells tests are commercially available. They’re only done in research labs.

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Immune Health Grade and Immune Resilience

A study that assessed CD4+ and CD8+ cells (immune health grade) and gene expression (transcriptomics) to get at the balance of immunocompetence (IC) and inflammation (IF) for quantifying immune resilience. Think of it as major refinement beyond the neutrophil to lymphocyte ratio.

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Immune Health Metric (IHM)

Published this month was a study of 228 participants with various genetic immune conditions, along with age and sex-matched healthy controls, with A.I. to derive a score. The immune profiling included complete blood count with B cells, T cells, NK cells, platelets, transcriptomics, proteins, with modules of the RNA and protein data.

Some notes with respect to the above:

1) The white blood cell (neutrophil) to lymphocyte ratio (NLR) doesn't work for us, because our lymphocyte count is typically raised due to our CLL. This is also why checking percentages of white blood cells are so misleading. Because all 5 white blood cell types must add to 100%, when the percentage of lymphocytes increases, the percentage of other white blood cell types must fall, even if they go up a bit less than an increase in the lymphocyte count! See: healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo... This is also why we need to measure our absolute lymphocyte count, not our WBC, to best assess our CLL blood tumour load changes! healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...

2) The paragraph about T cell testing is extremely relevant to us. Testing for antibodies/immunoglobulins (IgA, IgG, IgM, etc), is very easy, because they are are significant component of our blood plasma protein. Finding T cells with specific T cell receptors for a given virus is far, far harder. Because CLL and CLL treatments inhibit our ability to make immunoglobulins, low immunoglobulin counts (hypogammaglobulinemia) is common with CLL. But because we don't have a VIrScan test available to us (see accompanying graphic), doctors can only use the gross measure of our IgG level, which is not a useful measure of the protection provided to us from illnesses we commonly encounter. That's why being prescribed replacement IgG therapy (IVIG or subcutaneous IgG), requires both a history of a sufficiently low IgG count (the count threshold depends on where you live), as well as some serious, recent infections.

We also learned from the COVID pandemic, that immunoglobulin protection from COVID-19 infection is challenging for us to achieve. However, about 80% of us are able to achieve T cell responses to COVID vaccinations/boosters.

3) CLL drives T cells to exhaustion and tends to reverse the CD4:CD8 ratio by driving an increase in CD8 T cell numbers. So measures of Immune Health Grade and Immune Resilience and an Immune Health Metric (IHM) would need to be specific for CLL.

Dr Topol concludes;

Where to Go From Here?

With a large body of knowledge indicating the immune system as a (if not the) major determinant for our health and diseases, we desperately need a means for assessing our immune system. It could predict a person’s response to infections, vulnerability to cancer or its spread, no less cardiovascular and neurodegenerative disease susceptibility. Since our immune system function is quite variable with aging, knowing a person of advanced age is not immunocompetent could lead to ways to augment the immune response. There are diverse means that could be accomplished in the future, such as via the gut microbiome through pre- or probiotics. Or vaccines. Even lifestyle factors such as diet, exercise and sleep are actionable modulators of our immune response.

Perhaps the most striking impact of the immune response relates to treatment for cancer. We have seen notable progress with immune checkpoint inhibitors, but that is often transient, and bolstered with many other strategies to rev up the immune system including CAR T therapy, bispecific T cell engagers (BiTES), cell-drug conjugates, JAK-kinase inhibitors, tumor infiltrating lymphocytes, and neoantigen cancer vaccines. All of these options, and their combinations, are targeting the patient’s immune response to the tumor, but none are directed to the health of their immune system per se. We’re “throwing the book” of immunotherapy treatments and increasing success, but ironically we’re not able to measure the patient’s intrinsic immune system’s status. article is well worth a full read.

As Dr Topol says, "We should accelerate our efforts to get there and build on the promising studies I’ve reviewed."

Meanwhile, appreciating how our immune system works and what we can do to reduce our risk of infection, are very worthwhile endeavours if we want to live out a normal life expectancy with CLL healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...

Neil

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AussieNeil profile image
AussieNeil
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PaulaS profile image
PaulaSVolunteer

Very interesting, thanks Neil. I don't understand most of it 🤔 but I get the general idea... 😊

Paula

ygtgo profile image
ygtgo in reply to PaulaS

There was a discussion on here many moons ago about fatigue ... the gist of which was that some of us were being told that our fatigue could not be linked to our blood counts as the 'numbers' do not add up ... you see, the doctors had been to 'doctor school' and had read the books ... my take on it was that my son was in primary school, he was delighted to have been told that they were going to a project on astronomy ... but there was a problem ,,, he had to keep 'correcting' the teacher ,,, she was using books from the school library .... they were the same books that I had used when I was there as a kid ... That's how I like a doctor who listens ,,,, especially 'general practitioners'😉

Katie-LMHC-Artist profile image
Katie-LMHC-Artist in reply to PaulaS

I laughed when I read your response! I think you are expressing what most of us think. Honestly, I try and get what I can from the info! 😂

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