hello everyone . I am 48 years. Height is 187 cm and weight is 100kg . Had a Fibroscan on 13th April and score is 9.2 ( Alcoholic fatty liver ). Dr suggest to reduce the weight since then my daily steps count is 20k + along with proper diet anand no alcohol consumption. Any suggestion how to reduce my score . Is the current score life threatening ?
My friends are throwing party for me on 27th April for my excellent social work . Can I have few pints of beer?
If I was you I would follow the Doctors advice, no alcohol consumption.
My last fibro scan read 9kpa, down from a previous of 22.2kpa. I was hospitalised March 2023 with jaundice and ascites and likely decompensated cirrhosis through my alcoholism,, which my doctors are now stating I have moderate fibrosis and that my liver has remarkably remodelled itself. And that is all down to eating healthily, getting regular exercise and above all else, quitting drinking full stop. I’m no over a year sober.
My liver wasn’t just damaged through alcohol, I had an extremely fatty liver on top of the fibrosis which my fibro scan cap scored over 360, the highest it goes to is 400. So my liver was very much failing. My cal score today is 144.
You have a scarred liver, which is what fibrosis is. Now I can’t tell you not to drink, a score of 9.2kpa suggest moderate fibrosis and not cirrhosis. But I’ll repeat what my d or or told me while I lay on a hospital bed having almost drank myself to death. He said, no they said as every doctor I saw and I saw 5 or more liver experts, told me in no uncertain terms I can never drink again, ever if I want to live.
They didn’t say for how long, but did say if I returned to drinking after my release which was almost a 2 week stay where all they could do for me was detox me and stabilise me, I wouldn’t live to see my next birthday. That’s come and gone.
Today I apparently have a very good prognosis and could yet still live a long long time and a normal life and my current doctor has even said sure, you can drink again, but he also told me that my fibrosis which is scarring, will scar over and over if I did start drinking and eating a poor diet again where there won’t be any more room for healing and remodelling which by me stopping drinking and eating healthily for over a year has happened to my at the time very damaged and enlarged enflamed liver.
Because once it’s scarred, it can only ever scar over again at which point the scarring will become cirrhosis which is end stage liver disease and cannot be cured or reversed and while you may not die of cirrhosis as many people don’t and can live a long life with it, you sure will die of its complications eventually which effect all your other organs and a whole lot more.
We will all die at some point from one thing or another, but with cirrhosis you’re basically fire fighting with a water pistol, while in the background while trying to keep the big fire from growing, smaller fires pop up. You can never put the big one out, but you can stop it from spreading and getting bigger and bigger. It’s the pesky little fires popping up you have to worry about the most though, like portal hypertension, varices, ascites, HE, muscle wasting, malnutrition, diabetes, spider nevi, jaundice, arthritis, osteoporosis, bleeding, edema, kidney failure, heart problems. Lung problems, itching, muscle spasms, neuropathy, bone disease and the Big C, liver cancer.
Now I’d like to think I’m reasonably intelligent and have done the mental mathematics as a former alcoholic that if I could drink in moderation certain beverages now that my liver appears to be only moderately fibrotic, I could stave off fully blown cirrhosis for maybe a year or two and could perhaps start over again and stop drinking again at that stage when I reach that point.
Sort of like what I’ve done now. My liver was in acute alcohol hepatitis failure and presenting as likely decompensated cirrhosis March last year, a year and a bit later, it’s almost back to full health. Now should I drink again the way I did leading to me turning yellow and looking skin and bones and so weak lifting a mug of tea felt like lifting a boulder, which was 3 bottles of whiskey a week? Well, I wouldn’t see out the year and not get cirrhosis and I wouldn’t fancy my chances beyond that of living much longer.
But because I’m an intelligent person and a good boy these days, now why would I risk even a drop of alcohol and allow that scarred liver of mine to get even more scarred where it will stop functioning which it’s currently now doing?
I was told when the liver is damaged, it heals itself by creating new tissue which is kind of like when we cut ourselves and that cut heals over with new tissue, which we call scarring. That’s what my liver has done.
Now imagine cutting that scarred tissue over and over again, what would happen? New tissue on top of new tissue on top of new tissue, a thick heavy layer of scarring. That’s what would happen to my liver scarring should I inject it with toxins again such as alcohol and fatty processed food.
So I won’t and can’t really, that’s what my hep doctor’s notes to my GP say despite my ‘has likely only moderate fibrosis’ with ‘the patient understands, however, that he must never drink alcohol again, and seems determined to follow this’, not that I need told that because I’ve had first hand experience of what that looks like, what that feels like and how that ends and I think that gives me a certain clarity on things and acts as stop sign.
I’ve been given a second chance and now I won’t ever chance things again, it took me being at death’s door. That’s me though. You? I don’t know where you’ve been, your liver, are you coming from a stage like mine was in or are you just setting off on that path and your 9.2kpa is your starting point?
22.2 was mine and I’ve somehow gotten it down and I’m told I’ll likely never get it down much more and I’d be bucking many a trend to get it to even a 7 which is my aim. I just think of how tough it’s been and how long and hard these 12 or so months were just to get to where I am now and how frightening how quickly it can easily go back to where I started from and even beyond. It really does scare me. It took a decade of heavy drinking to get to where I did, but for 9 of those years I was perfectly fine and then boom, things seemed to have deteriorated over night.
December 22 I had noticed I was losing weight and looked a bit rough and clearly felt unwell, but still functioning, I had a full on heavy month of drinking and not eating much. Then by February 23 I was yellow and had a swollen belly, you could see my rib cage, my wedding ring would slip off my finger, my watch off my wrist, my face looked puffy and grey despite the jaundice and I couldn’t eat or even drink my beloved whiskey, I was puking up 10 times a day, had the runs 20 times a day, my pee turned a dark red colour, my poo was liquid basically, I slept so much and spent 2 weeks just laying in bed. I couldn’t walk or even get myself dressed. Because it was so sudden, I thought ah, I’ll be fine again in a week or two. Today I’m almost back to looking my old self, but younger and fresher I’m told and while I have some issues, mentally at least I’m 100% now.
Sorry for the long post it’s not really meant to be read in full, but it’s good for me at least to write down my thoughts on all of this to drink or not to drink with liver disease conundrum which is what you and I have, scarred livers.
Whatever you do, good luck and take care.
Thanks for your reply . 9.2 is my starting point .
That’s good as it shows you haven’t damaged your liver too much thus far, and you don’t need me to say it can only now get worse providing any life style choices you make.
Because I’ve had alcohol hepatitis, if I drink again I’ll get it again and it won’t take a decade of heavy drinking to get there. I do believe with AH once you’ve had it your liver can be on a knife edge so me even going back to my poor diet again can tip it over even if I remained abstinent so I’m always kind of going to be anxious about the state of my liver which in itself not healthy for one’s emotional well being.
I have to have 6 month bloods and scans taken for the foreseeable future as I’m now at an increased risk of liver cancer also. I’m due those things in June I believe.
Again, whatever you choose to do, good luck. No-one can tell you not to drink and while I share my own alcohol and health experiences as a result of my drinking especially with family members and friends as a cautionary tale regarding their own drinking, I accept I’m the one with the problem when it comes to drinking and it’s me who will forever have to moderate my behaviour around that and not they them and theirs.
Is your LFTs normal and other bloods? And regarding reducing that score, it’s going to be almost impossible without abstinence. I’m hoping to get mine down to 7 which I’ll soon find out, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it stays the same or has crept up even. Take care.
LFT is normal . I had pain under right rib hence dr suggested for Fibroscan . In Oct 22 I had my first Fibroscan and score was 7.1 . After that 9 months I was away from alcohol but put on the weight . And now 2nd scan score is 9.2 .
I had pain and still sometimes get it too, the liver doesn’t emit pain though. But pain in the upper right quadrant around the liver is quite common in those with liver disease it seems, or rather someone whose liver isn’t fully right with itself. Mine is hardly noticeable unless I press on it these days, but it used to feel very sensitive around there and got stabbing like pains too.
So… despite abstaining from booze for 9 months your liver stiffness has actually increased and that alone is telling you sobriety alone won’t save your liver and should you now decide to drink, you’ve got to question what further damage will be done by allowing positions toxins back in like alcohol?
A slightly damaged liver can heal itself fully, a severely damaged liver can heal itself to the point it can work fully still in a compensated way, but only once whatever is casing that damage is removed and permanently so, but a moderately damaged liver cannot keep healing itself over and over again, that’s actually what causes cirrhosis, the damaged liver trying to heal itself with new tissue, like a wound does by scarring over.
New tissue on top of new tissue on top of new tissue eventually cannot regrow any more tissue and the liver as a results starts to die. Think of it as sponge compared to a brick, now try and clean up with a stuff, hard brick. Try and clean the dishes with a brick, or mop the floor. For your liver it’s the equiverlent of banging your head against a brick wall.
Again it’s not for me to say to anyone don’t drink, but his is a clear warning sign staring you in the face, I wear mine like a tattoo, I’ve had my warning and it almost killed me the booze and that’s starting out with a healthy liver. Now I’d be starting with an already used abused and broken liver, should I ever drink again.
And because you’ve cut out a damaging agent in the booze already, well something else is still contributing to your liver damage not getting any better, but worse, now let’s hope that is just temporary.
Your latest fibro scan result could be diet related (what was your liver Cap score out of interest which measures the fatty ness of your liver? Mine was over 360, it only goes to 400, a lot of that was mostly alcohol related, but also food related), fitness related (you can get a fatty liver by not getting enough exercise and that doesn’t mean you have to join a gym and walk 20k steps a day (amazing getting in that by the way, well done, I try 10k every day at least. Just moving around and walking a block of streets a day can help), medicine related (some medications are extremely toxic for the liver), hereditary genetics (sadly we all get passed down some bad genes here and there) or the day of your last fibro scan that jump in score could be down to what you ate that week (fatty processed food), the air you breathed (polution), stress, or anything really even down to how experienced or not the technician is).
Add booze though and we all know how deadly that is to the liver full stop. It’s one of many man made products we willingly digest with ingredients that actively kill us, like cigarettes, like processed fatty foods, drugs and other harmful substances that are poison to the human body.
I could kill for a whiskey (not literally ha ha), but I’d be killing my liver. Sure one or two wouldn’t kill me instantly, but me drinking even in moderation and even to the recommended weekly units again will because my liver has already used up it’s 9 lives in 1 go and cannot keep healing over. My doctors are absolute shocked at my ‘recovery’, although they’ve seen it before and aren’t exactly surprised someone can recover the way I have because many have returned from the brink who were in a far worse situation than me and that’s even those whose drinking lead to cirrhosis and it appears I’m one extremely lucky b@stard on that score as I never ever want to get that, but despite my normal bloods and only moderate scarring, I know fora fact even me drinking in moderation will lead to cirrhosis eventually.
That’s me though, I’m starting all over again from a situation with my own liver that is different to your own.
EDIT: Just saw your reply about not drinking for the time being, good man, you’ve made my day because I won’t lie your OP gave me anxiety for you ha ha.
And do you know what, who knows, maybe if you can reverse the moderate scarring fully which has been done before, you can start drinking again one day. I have thought about that myself, if I can get ALL my bloods back to normal and get my liver to under 5kpa and my cap score down even more which at 144 is a great number, better than my own super fit and healthy he doctor much to his amusement, or alarm?! That could be me one day, enjoying a drink again, I’d have to factor in how to also deal with my addictive personality mind that drew me into liking whiskey so much I become addicted and with it dependant on it. I’d like to think I could, I mean I did for a long long time until something somehow got me too hooked I couldn’t stop.
But I did stop and have, for 14 months now coming up, I could stop again or stop myself getting addicted and dependant on it.
But I cannot and never can stop the damage alcohol would do to my liver because the damage has already been done. Again I don’t need my expert doctor to tell me I can never ever drink again because my liver cannot take it anymore even though it’s now healed, if not fully.
And that’s not including the damage a decade of heavy drinking has done to my body in general, neuropathy, muscle and bone pain, brain fog, my sexual drive, my heart, my arteries, my other organs, my skin. And that’s just physiologically. Mentally? Emotionally? The damage has scarred me more than my liver and especially my poor family. My poor wife who saw me drinking myself to death and me hiding it or trying to, telling her complete lies that I’m fine, that I’m ok, that I can stop, and it will pass. My poor kids who almost lost their dad at both under 11 years of age for good, and who did lose their dad for a year or so before my hospitalisation as I was never around for them, I was always around them, but not for them. Trips out decreased, my interest in their lives decreased, my interest in anything and everything decreased, all I was interested in was my next drink, from the minute I woke up to the minute I went to sleep. And that shames me, angers me and makes me hate that me and alcohol with a hatred that isn’t normal, I’d kill that me thinking about that me. If I could beat that me up if that me was in front of me now, well I would love to get my hands on that me because I’d slap the crap out of that me for doing what I did to myself and my wife and kids and above all else because that’s not me, never was and never ever will be ever again. Good luck and take care.
Hello Bhosdaikay,
For many people who discover they now have liver damage of any kind, it should be seen as being a wake-up call. Normally, many people don’t get to know about their liver condition before it becomes too late. This is why Alcohol-Related Liver disease (ArLD) is known as “The Silent Killer”, as the liver doesn’t have any pain receptors so many people can have no symptoms or pain, and just wake up one morning and notice that the whites of their eyes have turned yellow.
Once a person knows their liver is beginning to become damaged, they really need to say to themselves, “This is what’s being damaged, now what am I going to do to make it right?”
Be honest with yourself, and tell your friends that you have early signs of liver damage. This can be a positive moment for you. It’s a chance to discover who are your genuine friends and those who don’t really have your best interests at heart. A true friend might say, “Right, for now on If I see you with a drink of alcohol in your hand I’ll kill you myself”. The one who says, “Go on, have a drink, one’s not going to kill you” isn’t a true friend. So it’s time to know who your true friends are.
Also, it could prove to be a wake-up call for them too, as if you all mix in the same circles and drink about the same amount each week, they too may have problems and not know it.
You can enjoy a party and have a good time without alcohol. Give your liver a chance to recover.
thanks Richard for a lovely reply . I made up my mind this morning so no drink until my score goes down .
Again sorry for the long posts people and especially to the OP ha ha, I find it therapeutic to write some of my feelings down which can probably read a bit preachy and while I hope my experiences can help others, it sure helps me to be able to have somewhere to write about it all when I can just as much. This is one very caring platform and full of wisdom, knowledge and real life experiences that since I joined I’ve certainly gained a lot from in terms of insight into liver disease of all kinds, alcohol abuse and how remarkable the liver is and how strong people really are in dealing with their various issues. Have a good evening/day all and take care.
neuropathy and. Pains all over I can’t walk now
this morning had my Fibroscan. Now score is 6.9. And CAP score is 232. A month back it was 9.2 and 265 .
Grassroots311
Fibroscan score 19.5. Awaiting appointment with consultant
Alp score
What is the Kpa score on a Fibroscan that indicates cirrhosis?
Fibroscan Results
Unreliable ELF Score and contradictory test results?
