The need for sleep! 😴

Hi. ☺

Could anyone please advise me of any natural sleep remedies? My sleep pattern is getting more and more reversed. It is all over the place. I am sleeping from 4am till 5.30am and then perhaps an hour or two early afternoon. Then I may sleep for a solid 6 hours 2 days running. Its not helping at all with my confusion and brain fog. Plus I'm still a bit constipated which is making me drowsy. (Senna seems to be helping a little. I am struggling to cope with Lactolose effects)

I have taken up on line learning courses about this and that hoping it would tire me!

I've just read about trying Eucalyptus Oil?

I know that I'm not on my own with this, any advise welcome.

Take care all


60 Replies

oldest β€’ newest
  • White Feather, A few lavender drops on a pillow can help induce sleep. Not watching tv or being on computer for at least an hour before bedtime, when you could perhaps also have a biscuit and hot milky drink. don't leave a mobile phone on  right beside your bed. Wifi supposedly affects some people - we are surrounded by it these days. I turn wifi off, on the iPad at night! I also like to have a little fresh Air coming in window and several years ago used to read myself to sleep once in bed. These days I find a radio on low helps - but I do sleep alone so no one else to disturb here! We do need to relax and distract our minds from the days turmoil! 

  • Thank you. They sound helpful . It is so frustrating isn't it? Do you the reasons for disturbed sleep patterns in liver cirrhosis?


  • White Feather, I'm sorry I don't know the answer to that. I can only suggest as above, you just have a look at your usual bedtime routine and see if changing some things might help. I have occasional sleep pattern disturbances myself, fortunately not on a regular basis now as I did a few months ago. What's changed for me is more what I eat or don't. I'd had a terrible problem with not eating properly through lack of appetite and loss of taste buds, which is getting better since drinking bottled water and not tap water. Weird I know, but only thing I can think of for me at present. We all drink too much of the bad liquids and not enough of the good healthy ones these days unfortunately. I like my tea, fruit juices and water with an occasional small glass of rose wine now if  in company. -oops amendment - don't drink a glass of wine with the other drinks or at same time:-) only v ocasionally! 

    The wifi and reading works with kids apparently to calm them and their brains down  at least an hour B4 their bedtime. Of course kids don't have the multitude of daily problems or health probs that many adults do. 

    I'd certainly recommend removing all wifi devices from their bedrooms at night. Only things Ive heard and seen on tv documentaries over recent years. If it works for them why shouldn't it work for adults? Just a thought & loads of mums and dads may come up with some answers as well. 

  • Thanks again.

    Keep well !


  • Lavendar and hot drink works for me too, also a hot bath.

    To turn off WiFi you need to do that at the router, turning the IPad or phone off won't help.

  • Rodeo, I tried turning router off, phone didnt work then either. Also I've read several times on Internet and my ISP provider said turn the wifi off on the individual devices, it does not do the router or the sip equipment a lot of good to keeping interfering with the "signal" from them to the router also. I used to keep being sent messages on my mobile from ISP  when I kept turning router off. 

  • I'm sure it's not good for the router to keep turning it on and off but the equipment acts as a receiver of the WiFi the router is emitting the signal. To turn off Wifi you must turn it off at the router.

    Like saying by turning off your TV or radio the TV signal has stopped emitting.

    WiFi is radio-frequency radiation, which is actually the same as microwave radiation. 

  • I'll agree to disagree with you then Rodeojoe. 

  • I exercise hours and hours a week but I still have many sleepless nights. I seldom take anything because whatever I take causes liver fatigue so yes it makes me sleep but the next day I am too exhausted to exercise or do much of anything. I prefer staying awake all night to being liver fatigued the next day. 

  • Thanks. What liver fatigue symptoms to you get?


  • hi, my consultant said it was quite normal for disturbed sleep patterns...i usually drink a camomile based tea before bed and recently have been listening to ASMR videos from you tube...they really help....have been prescribed amitriptyline at low dose....but side effects of dry mouth and drowsiness all morning made me stop taking them....currently sleeping about 4 hours at night...but going to physically get tired......

  • Yes I'd never heard it called ASMR before but had to look it up to find out if it was anything like used to help me. 

    "Autonomous sensory meridian response (ASMR) is a euphoric experience characterized by a static-like or tingling sensation on the skin that typically begins on the scalp and moves down the back of the neck and upper spine, precipitating relaxation."

    I get it from white noise, if you look on youtube you can find videos of hair-dryers making their sound. Even better if there was nobody about I'd use a real hair dryer.

    I know it sounds soo weird but id go into a trance. I'm sure it would still work but I've no need now. But thinking about it sends those tingles down my spine.

  • What a great idea! Brilliant! I have tried downloading 'rain sounds' to help me drift off but my mind stays active. Will give of a go.



  • Rodeo Joe just to let you know how I got on with your suggestion. Ive been trying AMSO which is a god send. Thanks! Might be worth you putting as post out there on the forum?

    Hope you are well


  • No problems,  but is was earthpixie who originally posted. She just reminded me. If you want to make another post about it I'm sure that's fine.

  • Will do. Thanks again. How are things your end?


  • Thanks for asking. I couldn't be better. Since transplant over a year and a half ago I've just got better and better. I've managed to reduce my immunosuppressive drugs right down too.

    Glad your sleeping better now. 

  • No prob! You sound really positive πŸ‘ Have a great day!☺

  •  I used to sleep very badly, sleep patterns totally disrupted by M.E. and hep C  forcing afternoon bed rest. 

     In spite of taking a large dose of Codeine Phos in the evening I would often be awake half the night, maybe reading.

    Now I use a combination of Passiflora ( Passion Flower) and Valerian tablets which are obtainable on-line or any Health food shop., the difference is truly amazing.  Even if I wake up for some reason, I usually do, its easy to drop off again. 

     Any problem dropping of, I just need to read a little and it soon makes my eyelids fall; formerly reading would simply excite me and I would just keep on reading for hours.  Not any more.

  • Thank for you suggestions. They have given me something's to try.


  • Hi, I don't know your age, but if you are in the 40-60 range and female, hormonal changes can very commonly cause major disruption in sleep patterns. While synthetic hormone replacement therapy has been linked to a higher incidence of cancer and other health risks, bioidentical HRT does not have that association and may even be protective. My Hepatologist and entire medical team (yes, I'm afraid I have a team!) at a top medical center have endorsed BHRT for me and it's been a godsend. I use the Vivelle Dot patch which is bioidentical estradiol, and progesterone in either a compounded cream or the oral Prometrium capsules, both bioidentical (I recently switched to the latter from the former, but both are good options). This combination completely restored my horribly disrupted sleep and it has proven to be my magic bullet. Extra benefits turned out to be improved skin and hair and far less brain fog - no more searching for a word or forgetting what I was on my way to do. Many chronic diseases and autoimmune diseases favor women and often appear during the years our hormones begin to decline. That's unlikely to be a coincidence, and many medical researchers are investigating the hormonal link. Now - after all that, if you happen to be 30, 75+, or male, disregard! Best of luck to you and I hope you find some relief soon, good sleep is so critical to our psychological and physical well-being. 

  • Thanks a lot. I am 41yr female. That would make sense actually. Would you sugesst telling my Dr or hematologist (I see her in July)?


  • I would ask your gynecologist if you have one. Be aware that many doctors may not know that the studies that link HRT to health risks used synthetic hormones that were not bioidentical. I'd also specifically ask about a trial of Vivelle-Dot and Prometrium, but recommend starting on just the Vivelle Dot for a few months before adding the progesterone. That way you can better isolate the effects of each. Your doctor may want to run a hormone blood panel first   Even if your levels aren't too bad, you could still ask for a trial to see if it alleviates symptoms. I'd love to hear what you decide and how you're doing. 😊

  • I will keep in touch. Thanks for that! You've been so helpful. Hormones? Just another addition to the list eh?!!!!!!! πŸ˜‰

  • So how did you sleep last night Whitefeather? Well,  I hope. If not what happened! Best to start by eliminating what you tried and didn't work, then perhaps there'll be some more new ideas for you? 

  • Hi sambs. Last night was the same but slept longer 5 - 10.

    Didn't have TV or phone etc around, also had hot bath. I did feel much better for sharing it with you guys. I lay there and thought 'I'm not the only one who is awake right now' lol!

    Picking up lavender oil tomorrow.

    Thanks for asking. Hope things are alright for you?


  • Hi WF, not sure if you mean you slept 5-10 hrs or between 5am and 10 am! 1st is better, your body and brain obviously needed that long - not necessarily every day,  it sounded like you had some catching up to do anyway, but that's a wide scope. So was it 5, 10 hrs you slept. Between 6-8 is more normal when health complications are not involved. If it was from 5-10am, then the above things you did didn't help you drop off if you went to bed at say 10-11pm. 

    The lavender drops on the pillow, Reading or listening quietly to a book story with little earplugs in may help you drop off initially with the the rest of the things helping you stay asleep longer. 

    I read somewhere or someone said on the group that night time is when the liver is doing its work, therefore indicating it's when the body/brain  are resting properly. 

    I don't know your age, but it is stilll generally said that the older we get the less sleep we NEED. I remember as a teenager I had no problems sleeping for up to 12 hrs, then it slowly reduced to  10 then 8 and now I find 6-7 hrs a night is my optimum and I wake up feeling so refreshed. The brain is not as foggy as it used to be. I can even get by on 5 hrs ocasionally if I have to be up and out early, although I've always been a night owl, never a morning lark! 

    I think my sleep pattern started changing when I went through the menopause, so a lack of hormones (I never used HRT) could also be part of my sleep programming then now or not. So some further ideas for you to mull over!

     I've  never had a hormone blood test either. 

  • WF Oops just seen in one of your replies above you say you are 41. (That my BI at work). 

  • Hi sambs. Sorry, I ment from 5am until 10am. However, last night I fell to sleep at 5.30am and woke at 6.30am. I'm getting really irritable. I'm on my bed now, peed off big time.

    My spirit animal is the Owl which is obviously nocturnal but it really is getting beyond a joke 😒

    Thanks for asking.


  • We must be on diff sides of Atlantic :-) given you are saying 5am is last night :-) it's a morning time for me.

    So your reply saying "now lying on your bed" is 3pm my time in Europe. If it's same time for you, perhaps being outside in fresh air, having a walk now, would help you later this evening, along with the lavender oil, fall asleep better. 

    The body and mind, - if you are not having physical or other health problems - preventing you physically moving around, doesnt need 24/7 rest. 

    It's your "body clock" that needs a change in routine especially if It's in a mental, emotional rut it can't get out of.

     If you can do some mind over matter changes, I.e. NOT  Normal routines, it should help. Sometimes the answers lie within ourselves and not always in others. 

  • Our time is the same. I've tried to keep busy today. Cooked lasagne by 10AM today, done a bit of pottering in garden. Updated finances. I enjoyed doing it


  • you've kept yourself occupied well, mostly inside, and gardening means bending down usually, so a lot of the time in same positions, and not  much physical exertion with breathing and excercising, which helps oxygen and blood flow round the body better. 

    sorry I don't mean it to sound as harsh it probably does. I'm not good at being flowery, just factual because I do tend to analyse things rather than take them at face value, for myself also, so I hope no offence caused. I can analyse and empathise (through my own experiences) in words better than I sympathise, but hope what I've written makes some sense to you. 

  • It does make sense. No need to apologise, you have helped me greatly, sambs!

    Thanks again!


  • Hi sambs! Good news to let you know. I slept good last night!

    Hope you are OK?


  • I'm ok, hope the lavender helped last night and managed to stop your brain working overtime before you went to sleep! 

  • I did! The lavender smell took me right back to my pregnancy days. Thank you for that. I have been speaking to a friend about meditation. Think I might give that a try too! Have you tried it before?

    Like you say, it might help help my brain from working overtime!

    I'm glad you are OK. Have a nice weekend. I'm going to try and get some natural vitamin D in me other than injections!


  • Just make sure you don't overdo the Vit D - read up on it before you start taking. Just Wiki VitD. Don't neglect the other Vits, found in natural foods either. Also if possible,  spend sufficient time daily outside when it's sunny, you shouldn't need to supplement Vit D. 

    Meditation not my thing, although relaxing and anything that frees the mind of thoughts going round in circles helps. That why I always used to read to send me off to sleep and stay asleep without having to get up to go to loo in night. I've been sleeping really well especially the last 2/3 weeks. 

    Tai Chi was though, a gentle way of exercising all the bodΕ· especially if bones and muscle not strong. Good for brain as well! No tai chi classes where I live now. 

    I'm finding my having honey for a sweetener on cereal, in rice pudding, or (if you drink it) coffee apparently, because it doesn't alter the flavour. You don't want to drink coffee late evening though cos it's a stimulant. Acacia Honey is doing me good though. 

    There is a website called Honey Fanatic with lots of info about Acacia Honey, it's derivatives etc etc., Acacia is also supposed to be good for Liver disorders. 

    You have a good weekend as well. 

  • Hi Diane!

    Just to let you know how I'm getting on. I've booked an appointment to see if I can get hormone blood panel done like you suggested. I'm having a general health check done while I'm there too.

    Also tried rodeo Joe's suggestion which really helped and begun meditation, lavender oil. All seem to be working! Its great to have had suggestions from you guys.

    How are things with you?

    Take care


  • So nice to hear from you, and that you're seeing some improvement! I'm glad you have an appointment scheduled - hopefully with someone knowledgeable about bio-identical hormones? Let me know how it goes, and best of luck.  :-)

  • Thanks! I'm wake awake tonight! In a good way though as I slept right up till lunch yesterday. How are things with you?☺

  • Thank you for that information. I am seeing my consultant at Leeds on Friday and I am going to ask about this I hope they know what it is !!! incidentally are you in the UK? Cheers here's hoping :)

  • Nope, I'm in the U.S. on the east coast. Let me know how your appointment goes. 😊

  • will do, I will ask about the BHRT but I am not holding out much hope, we will see. Anything for a good nights sleep --please !!!. Cheers. :)

  • Hi feathers the name.l was told it is the toxins not cleared by our struggling livers that build up and mess up our sleep patterns.

    I have had pbc diag fi 17 years and have had sleep prob all that time.ive tried everything but nothing fixes completely  a codeine phosphate late pm helps.speak to consult about it.

    I dont fight it if im awake i just read watch tv for a while then try again.

    Thats my best ideas!!!.cazer

  • Thanks loads, cazer! I take Codiene Phosphate daily for pain relief. I does relax you doesn't it? Maybe because I take it throughout the day it may not have a greater impact?

    Thanks for you thoughts. Do you fall to sleep OK now? I'm not aware that I'm fighting it. My eyes, no matter how much they sting just won't stay closed!!!!!


  • Uh unfortunately no im pretty much nocturnal but accept rather than fighting it  otherwise i think i might go mad !!!!

    Think your right with codeine it  can make you slightly drowsy so if you could use that later in day  or eve it might just take edge off.

    The other thing i hsve is a anti histamine tab which i take pm and it doesnt stop the itch but again takes the edge off things.

    Iwas also allowed a low dose but found although this helped it gave me other wishes cazer.

  • Benadryl at bedtime can also help if it doesn't make your mouth dry, and it's a milder drug than codeine. Those with compromised liver function do need to be careful of what they take on a regular basis, as I'm sure you're aware. :-)

  • Yeah all these are with guidance from queen elizabeths l. Unit.birmingham.

    Im borderline asessment for transplant.ive given up sleep tab as think it was causing teeth problems !!! Cheers.

  • Benadryl's just a mild antihistamine, not a sleep tab. It's given to children, has an excellent safety profile and has been around for years. If you've found something that is working for you, stick with it. Best of luck to you if/when you're assessed. Take care. 

  • Cazer, didnt they suggest a detox progamme for you?  I'm waiting to see my liver Consult again this year for my cirrhosis, , so at present I'm trying my own detox I.e. Bottled water, plenty of Vit C juice and a natural remedy supplement, with Royal Jelly, ginseng and honey in it, it may help me it also may not! I don't know. 

  • Uh no never heard of...which hosp is that?

    Have never read anything about would be  nice to think it would work!!!

    What stage are you with cirrhosis ?.cazer

  • le mans       -    

    They are the manufacturer they do several herbal/natural remedies, depends what part of the endocrine/hepatic system you want to help. 

    Arko Royal, is a general body system strengthening one with those ingredients. 

    I also take Arko Fluid, good for the urinary part of the body. Helps keep kidneys and probably the liver flushed out. They both box come in boxes of either 30 or 20 phials per box. I started off on a course of the Arko Royal. It helped my sleep patterns as well. 

    Look Company up online they are multinational. . My Dr was okay with me taking them. I also discussed with the pharmacist, who I showed my blood test results, he knows I have several different health issues. 

    Don't know what Stage, just been told I have cirrhosis, the meds I was originally put on didn't agree with me. there are a couple of nodules one bigger than other. My last MRI was September. 

    With the Arko stuff. 

    I also now don't drink tap water here, there is too much calcium in it - It's the hardest water I've come across in my life. I stick to bottled and go through about 2 litres a day, plus Vit Enriched fruit juice. 

    Because I also have autoimmunethyroiditis, I have dry itchy skin and there is a good cream E45, it's called in UK, I have same type, diff name here and is v good at soothing at keeping skin moisturised so less Itch! Again it's available from good chemists. I used to get it free on my prescriptions in UK along with my Thyroxine. That was over 8 yrs ago though. 

  • Which british hosp ? I hope it works for you but  the level of damage i have i dont think would be helped by a detox product otherwise all those  end stage disease would be using it...maybe if there is less damage therefore less toxins it would stand  a better chance of working?but if it works for you then that is great.has anyone else heard of detox for interrupted sleep patterns.cheers cazer.

  • It's Not a British one, it's in France, I'm an expat now. I don't know if the 'personal detox method' is working or not and in terms of blood test and MRI,  results I'll see that on next ones. 

    My body feels better, appetite and weight is improving and neural complications have decreased generally. I get the odd bad or weird day but that could belut be down to the resulting from Haem, Brain Injury. I do have a couple of Thyroid symptoms though which I had many years before my spleen, blood disorder, brain haemorrhage and liver all came into the frame over here.  

  • Yeah ta the one i take is antihistamine  up to 3 a day but only take one...ccant say it takes away itch  just takes edge off  irritation which helps a tiny bit at night.

    Do you have pbc ? And where are you with it ?

    Im hoping for asessment as odds as good with transplant as own liver now..

    And have had this severely for 17 years !!!

    Best wishes cazer.

  • I know it's a commercial drug but the high dose antihistamine over the counter Sominex are really good for both dropping off and staying asleep . I don't know how they are for liver problems, I've not looked it up yet, but I don't use it all the time and it really helps me cause I've been an insomniac my whole life and the cirrhosis has just added to the problem. I told my doctor I was taking them and he didn't say it was bad for me - but then he doesn't say much about anything, I have to tell HIM what I need after researching and reading this forum. So glad this site exists.

    I know most people would much rather use traditional natural methods to help their sleep, and I'm glad for them, but non of them have worked for me. Give it a go and see what it does for you - if your sleep, or lack of it, is driving you that mad you'll have a go at anything, and I really do believe that most healing happens during rest. Either that, or get your mate to hit you over the head with a 10 lb lump hammer - that should knock you out for a good few hrs!

  • Thanks, Spuds! I have Dr's on Thursday, I will ask him. I really appreciate your reply. May I ask, how long have you had cirrhosis?

    I have got plenty of people who would be more than willing to hit me over the head! Lol!


  • Whitey

    I've had cirrhosis for 11y'rs. and was treated in North London 'cos

    I lived there, and with the treatment I've received here in Birkenhead, I wish I still did. They're so backwards,probably to do with lack of funding, that when I first asked for a case specialist, I was told I had one.The fact that he was in London and I would never be able to see him didn't seem to come into it.

    In Chase Farm hospital,North London, within the first two months Of discovering I had liver problems I'd had loads of blood tests leading to a bone and the liver scan, colposcopy ( horrible by the way) a biopsy, ultrasound and a test for cirrhosis and I'd only gone to my doctor with joint pain and was taking paracetamol . I was phoned within two months with the diagnosis of ALL of the tests and and assigned a specialist before I knew where I was and the speed of it all was really great as it didn't have chance to feel sorry for myself.

    Firstly, it was diagnosed as autoimmune hep which is difficult to diagnose but although I did drink quite a lot for a 5ft 7.8 stone woman and deserved it to be that, they were sure it wasn't but told me not to drink any-more. As with a lot of people who suffer with Autoimmune ,I also had cirrhosis for which for the liver disease plus the osteo-arthritis I was given azathioprine, which stops my blood cells attacking healthy ones so helps everything. For my bones - calcium,adcal,vit B (strong) plus thiamin - they call these "the alchy drugs (nice and polite). The only drug I was worried about is called Attarax which stops the itching immediately, A pain killer for my joints, and is also an anti/depressant which stops anxiety and panic attacks - but is rather addictive and also called xanax which I'm sure we've all heard quite a few Americans live on (sorry Yanks). My specialist assured me that he was just replacing the anti depressant, ( I was on citalampram - because I'd had a really bad fall for which I've had six operations and still need more and so obviously it made me me miserable and in pain) the painkiller s( co-codomol 30/500 - also quite addictive ) would treat the insomnia ( because of the anthihistamine ) and mostly imortant for me ,the itching which was doing my head in. He did tell me that they're not sure about the effects on my liver. He said he would do continual bi monthly tests to see that the cirrhosis didn't get worse, and that if I ever got well enough to stop taking it he would insure it was tapered and I wouldn't suffer any detox effects. He gave me the choice and really trusting him, I accepted and incredibly in a matter of days, it did everything he'd said and didn't even make me forgetful. I was totally chuffed.

    Then I moved to Birkenhead and I've had to start from the beginning. We'd got to know each other quite well, so I've left a message at Chase FarmHospital for my old specialist for him to get back to me and the hospital here and hopefully he'll be able to sort things out. I was lucky to be allocated a top specialist so he may be able to make demands if I'm lucky.

    Sorry about going on, you only asked how long I'd had cirrhosis, but I thought I'd give you all the info I had.

    Good luck and keep us informed of your progress

    I'm knackered now


  • Yes its true but ive had them through the doc and the comsult is fine with it.i take them to take the edge off the fidgetyness and itch but have noticed the benefit of the sleepiness.just b a little careful of the quantities as people with liver cirrhosis can b prone to sleepiness .cazed.

  • Thank you x

You may also like...