I am confused, that isn't a difficult state to achieve but I keep told to run slowly when trying to increase distance towards 10k. I have a slow 5k pace 31:30 when running the park run and have done about 10 of them now. I went for a run last night for 7k @ 7:00 pace. If I understand theory correctly I should be targeting a slower pace (I see recommendations of 65% of race pace but that seems implausibly slow at around 9:40 pace which isn't actually running at all but brisk walking). I also see RPE used a lot and conversational pace referenced so I suspect I am looking at a pace somewhere between 07:30 and 08:00 given I was a sweaty wreck at the end of the run last night.
Any thoughts ?
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shawgreen
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As a total non expert, I would just ditch worrying about the numbers and go with how you feel. If your run feels really easy and you can have a conversation out loud in full sentences, does it matter what your watch says? My pace varies a lot depending on terrain, how much I have run that week, whether I’m running early or late, or just random stuff I can’t even figure out.
At the moment I’m still a sweaty wreck on every easy run because it’s so hot!
Also, I wonder if those numbers are right. From the Nike Run Club app, if you’re running 5k at 31.30, that’s 6’18 per km which fits closest to a recovery/easy run pace of 7’35 which seems more in the right ball park than 9’40.
I’m not sure I totally understand what you mean. Your perceived effort is how hard you feel you are having to work to run. On a hot day, it will feel harder so you’ll have to go slower to keep it feeling at a conversational pace. The actual pace you’re running at is irrelevant.
It is below average and I suppose of relevance here it is a good 10 minutes slower than the PB of those I was trying to keep up with on the "easy run" hence the 07:00 pace they were setting. I was trying out a running group to try and break out of my solo status which is holding me back motivation wise.
I am trying as I understand it to train my aerobic energy system. To do so I need to run at a pace that challenges that system without switching over to anaerobic energy production. I am just not sure given my current state of fitness what pace that should be.
Do you have a watch which records heart rate zones?
For aerobic training, you want to be in zones 2 and 3 for the majority of your run. That usually translates into slower running. If you're consistently reaching into zones 4 and 5, you're trying too hard.
If you've got one of the reasonably recent Forerunner models it'll usually give you some rating of aerobic and anaerobic training effects for each run.
My most recent 10km run this morning (in warm conditions) was:
Zone 4 - 5% (3:52)
Zone 3 - 61% (43:38)
Zone 2 - 14% (9:59)
Zone 1 - 3% (2:24)
and the Training Effect was rated as 4.0 Aerobic, 0.0 Anaerobic.
If I really slow things down I can stay mostly in Zone 2. Today's run was at medium effort. The excursion into zone 4 was due to a bit of climbing during the route, plus the little spurt of speed I did in the last minute of the run.
That possibly means your max HR is set (possibly automatically) too low. Review the last few parkruns runs you've done. Find the maximum it's got to, and add 5. Then manually set your max HR to that.
I would agree, its not slow at all. I have posted the link below with 5k times related to ages before but some people might not have seen it so here it is again -
Thanks orangeguy , I'm now quite impressed with myself I wonder if anyone has done a similar set of calculations to make allowances for lack of height/leg length (or is that asking too much 😂?
I'm five-foot-and-a-tealeaf with very short legs, but have a ridiculously high cadence. Personally I'd love all the comparisons to take elevation gain, gradient and terrain into account as well, but there's not a cat in hell's chance of that.
Thank you so much for posting this. I've been struggling with the 5k to 10k programme not least as they early sessions focus on pace changing. I have just come in from a comfortable 35 minute run completing just short of 4k (I'm M70 never run until 3 months ago). My heart rate stayed below 130 and I could comfortably carry on running. Up the pace and I would be tripping up to my max heart rate at 150 and struggling with distance. I was comfortably last (runner) in my first parkrun a couple of weeks ago and did this in 41 minutes which I was amazed at. I have looked at the age related stuff to try and get a perspective of where I am but have struggled to make sense of it thinking I was a bit pathetically slow (but happy). I can now see I'm just about there and any progress would be an achievement. So whereas I was thinking I'll just stick to running slow but comfortable, there is now a bit of motivation to actually try and improve a smidgeon!😁
Fwiw the Magic Plan on here, designed to get novice runners to run 60 minutes or 10k, doesn't require you to bother with changing pace. It simply gives you three runs a week of varying distances, to be done in any order.
If you're working towards 10K then running slow but comfortable will help you more than trying to go faster, if that's what you mean by improve. You sound like you're doing really well and enjoying your running, and that's the way to be - long may that last!
Hi Cmoi, thanks for that, I did follow the link and will be using that guide from now on. I don't need the actual encouragement of an app now and my watch gives me on the run updates. I prefer taking in the scenery and weather etc while I'm running. I do keep checking in on unlocked and today has given great answers to Shawgreen's initial question. I had been wondering on way to go after C25K. On my first parkrun I hung on the back markers who were running without stopping but it was a struggle hence the amazing time. I'll do my second this weekend but will just run at my pace on the day and finish wherever! I don't want to do anything other than improve my health. 3 months ago I could drag myself to that first 60 seconds and walk! I don't expect the rate of improvement to continue at that pace! The video of Instructor57 today was excellent. Thanks for your comments.
When I finished C25K the idea of running 10k seemed impossible. I thought it was for proper athletic types, aged under 40 and very probably male, and that it required the sort of technical training to which I couldn't possibly commit. The Magic Plan disabused me of that notion, and guess what, it worked.
Thanks and I think I have the running bug firmly fixed into my new regime! I'm not going to push it, I want to stay injury free, but I do want jogging to feel like walking. I prefer cycling but while the anxiety of a stroke is still with me if I fall I want to be close to home and closer to the ground!!!!!😆
This is how I got to 10k too. The great thing about the magic plan is you can go for a timed version or a distance version. There’s something lovely about just going out to run for a specific time with no tech except a classic watch to tell you the time and maybe a podcast you enjoy. It really does work.
Firstly 31:30 is not a slow 5k pace .And certainly for longer runs and to build a stronger aerobic base then running around 80% of your runs at a slower, or conversational pace is the best way, not pushing it !
Take a look at this video by James Dunne , it may help explain
That reminds me of two women who ran at a parkrun, mother and daughter, although the daughter ran a sub 30 minute 5k her age grading was lower than her mother whose age grading was much higher running around 36 minutes, the daughter wasn't too happy about her mother having a higher age grading.
Hi shawgreen ! Am I right in thinking your aim is to run 10k? If so, I wouldn't be concerned about trying to run specific distances at specific paces. I'd take a look at the Magic Plan on this forum: healthunlocked.com/bridgeto...
To build your aerobic base you're better off running at a pace at which you could comfortably hold a conversation, rather than running fast.
Finally, I suspect that lots of people on here would be over the moon with a parkrun time of 31.30. Although I've never done one I'm pretty sure parkruns are not all alike, and the "average" (mean, mode or median?) time will vary accordingly. Running a flat 5k on tarmac is not the same as running 5k on trails with 100m elevation.
Obviously it depends, but quite a few people - I'm one of them - get to 10k before they achieve a sub-30 5k. Many more can run 10k but never manage a sub-30 5k. Counter-intuitively, it's running slower that will give you the capacity to develop your speed!
Understood and I am not fixed on a particular order. I think I have a plan … longer runs in zone 3 heart rate the trick now is to work out what that pace is I suspect super slow as in 8:00/km at which point is it even still running or some kind of jog/walk combo ?
Honestly, I don't think seeing pace from a numbers-only perspective is helpful. If you want your heart rate to stay in zone 3, once you've personalised your rates, you need to be running in a way that feels comfortable for you, regardless of what your watch tells you your pace is.
To give you an example: I run on varied terrain and if I'm pootling along on relatively flat country roads, I can keep my heart rate between 130-140bpm. If I then go onto a slippery, uneven, uphill forest trail where the gradient is between 10-22%, my heart rate will go into the 160-170bpm range even though my pace is slower. So I don't run by pace or heart rate, I run by perceived effort.
In the above example, 8:00/km for me would be a very slow jog on the flat stretches, and very difficult or completely impossible to achieve on the uphill trail.
Fair .. I only started running for 2022 after a lifetime of couch I trust numbers and don’t yet trust my body/mind perhaps it will come from experience ?
I've only been running for just over two years, so I wouldn't call myself an experienced runner. I just find it much easier to go by what my body's telling me than the numbers on my watch.
If numbers work for you, that's great, it's just that the impression I've been getting from your posts is that they're hindering rather than helping you.
Not really they are telling me the same thing as my body that the runs I am doing are race pace runs not "easy for me" given the terrain, sleep profile etc that I am experiencing. I need to slow them down. The bit I need to work on is how (I literally only seem to have one pace) and how much to hit the numbers I want to see based on HR.
I'm not clear what you mean by "how much to hit the numbers I want to see based on HR" but if you're interested in low heart rate running, there are some very experienced runners on here who can help. It's a long-term approach and not one of which I have any experience.
Re slowing down, you could perhaps try shortening your stride. Maybe it would also help if you were able to see running more slowly as positive and beneficial, rather than something negative? I know that if I want to do an easy pace run I have to keep reminding myself that it does not matter what Garmin's telling me, I'm out there to run comfortably and enjoy myself.
I used to go as fast as I felt I could. Boy that sucked the joy out of it! Then I decided to just go out for a run, no pressure. The alternative was probably to stop running. So here I am a few years later, still getting out 3 x a week (mainly) slower than I used to be, but that's my choice. I did a NRC guided 40 minutes a few weeks ago, now that felt slow, but oddly enough my next run was the fastest in a long while, by about 20 seconds per km. Pushing too hard is going to increase your injury risk too. Just try to enjoy yourself 😊
Couldn't agree more. Forced to miss a training run this week and only two short runs under the belt yet today's 2nd Parkrun was an improvement on the first which was also fastest 1 km splits in all the running so far. Still jogging round at the back, 'easy pace', clearly the pull of the runners in front!
On Wednesday morning I ran 15K, at the start of the run I thought to myself I will run at least 11K or more until Alexa the auto voice says my 1 Kilometre pace is 8:00/km or more, when I got to 15K Alexa said thay my pace between 14k and 15k was 8:09Km and ended my run.
Hi Shawgreen, thanks for posting this as it's certainly got a lot of people thinking and reflecting not least me. It's created a couple of responses Instructor57 and orangeguy that have been absolutely helpful to me. I won't bore you with my where have I come from, where am I going to story, running is personal and free, listen to Mo Farrar this morning. At 70 I'm getting faster slowly and staying aerobic for now HR 130 and today I've discovered my slow time/pace is quite acceptable. What is for sure is the absolute gains in my cardiovascular system and that is why I'm joined health unlocked, for the great advice and support. I hope you get some helpful replies to a challenging question.
Firstly, 31.5 is not a slow time for 5k. And you can't say running at 9 40 is 'not even running', it most certainly is for me and many others, as long as you are doing a running gait it's not walking! And as Misunderstanding says, the pace depends on so many things....... Some very good advice on here, so I hope it is helpful. Keep 'running' whatever the speed 🏃🏃♀️ and enjoy it!
I heavily would definitely endorse running slow to run faster.
I'm 54 and wilI celebrate my c25k anniversary end of this month. I'm around 95kg and my fastest parkrun to date is 23:55.
I was (am still I guess) like you at the parkruns. I get obsessed by the times, I go out too fast then, have to walk, worry about my heartrate because it's in zone 5 for most of the run... My last one at the start of May was a complete disaster, I did all the above and stopped to walk about 6 times I think and finished with a time of 26:12 which I was quite angry with. My normal 5k time on my own is 25:00 and was similar to your time when I graduated. I don't enjoy the things and have stayed away.
I decided to concentrate on the longer distances and enjoy them far more. I would probably rather run 3 half marathons in a week than do another parkrun...
Unfortunately however, my last 10k race was also a disaster because I made all the same amateur mistakes, I still finished with a reasonable time but that isn't the point.
I started reading up on the run slower to run faster subject about 2 months ago whilst also following a traing plan. 80% of my runs are now at easy or very easy pace, based on the times I got from race calculators online. They were quite hard to run and still takes a fair bit of discipline to run that slow. I could easily find myself daydreaming and running at close to 5 min /k pace and force myself to slow again..
I have since run a 10 mile race, deliberately started at the very back and was able to run at an easy 5.30/k for the first 7k or so whilst still in zone 3 on my Garmin.
I felt quite strong running at that pace and naturally decided to run a bit faster and left the pack I was running with. I was constantly checking my watch and slowed every now and again to 5.30 pace, especially going up the hills. I still felt comfortable going past 8k and tried to go for a 10k pb. However, I forgot the time and missed it by a minute or so anyway. I still felt strong and got a pb for 15k and a pb for the 10 miles by about 5 mins.
This was all as a result of the new training plan and learning to run slow.
P.S saying all that, I could easily find myself messing up another park run 🤣🤣🤣
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I wonder if anyone has done a similar set of calculations to make allowances for lack of height/leg length (or is that asking too much 😂?
8K down, halfway to Great South Run distance. I will be attempting a slow 10k later!
First Run over 2 hours, 19km distance best and new 15k speed PB
The Journey Not the Distance
Increasing my distance
