Well my planned 6k was cut short as halfway to the turn-back point there were 2 goats with horns between me and my route! 🐐🐐 I fear I wasn’t courageous enough to try to slip past them on the narrow route and rather turned back. I had a moment thinking of adding at the end an additional section of my usual 5k route, but by then I was so hot and drained for some reason that I kept it short.
I was certainly running out of steam or energy, which doesn’t really happen to me often, so it was probably quite good that the goats made me turn back. And I wonder if the reason for running out of energy was the fact that I didn’t have my protein shake first thing in the morning.
Some back story:
When I started running, I was the morning runner out the door even before breakfast, e.g. it felt so much better running on empty and just one cup of tea or coffee.
Once I progressed to train towards 10k, I knew I might had to have a bit of sustenance and started to have protein shakes for breakfast in the mornings, and have those before I run. This worked also well, and this is what I do now generally.
But after a chat with hubby, explaining that you either run on carbs or fat, and your body adapts to one or the other but moving the body from using carbs to using fat as energy source is harder. There are carbs in the protein shake, so when having the shake before the run, the body theoretically takes first the carbs and the protein out of the shake before considering taking the harder route of using the fat from the body.
So I ran this morning without the protein shake and that’s probably why I felt completely drained after only 3k.
So my thinking is, I want to get my body to use the fat it has stored up for energy, as I still seem to have plenty of that, so maybe I should leave long runs for now, but do a few weeks of short runs but without having protein shakes in the morning. That way I might be able to train my body to use its fat stores for energy.
And then I can go to long runs again.
Not sure I know the physiology of a runner well enough, so any thoughts are welcome. Do I have that right?
Otherwise on the run: Zombies 🧟♀️ were out swimming and runner 5 rowing! 🚣♀️ I know! Right!? Who knew Zombies did not have to breathe!
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CBDB
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As I understand it, you can "train" your body to use its fat stores by feeding it on a high fat, almost no carbs diet for a couple of weeks, and then continuing to keep the carbs as low as possible.That's a ridiculously short summary of the theory! Have a look at some of the informative posts on the LCHF group on here for more info.
Thanks for this. Yes, I’m hovering sometimes on the LCHF. Currently I’m following a specific Hashimotos recipes(autoimmune diet) which is LCHF, but not too extreme. I’ll have a look into that, thanks.
I love goats, but like you, I’d let them have right of way on a narrow path! Well done on your run though 😊. Food and running’s a funny old thing, even if I have a big bowl of porridge and an energy bar, 10 minutes in to a long run, my tummy starts to rumble - I think I need one of those old fashioned pelican bibs I could put a mini buffet in 😆. 🏃♀️🏃♀️🏃♀️
🤣🤣 Porridge does not last long for me either, my protein shake felt it was a much better breakfast lasting me all the way through a run and on to lunch.
All my life I had never been able to do anything before breakfast, until I went LCHF. Now I run before breakfast 3 times a week without thinking about it - so I must be doing something right!
Really interesting questions here that I too would be keen to know the answers to! I have never been able to exercise 'empty' and am susceptible to flagging big time if I run out of carb stores. But I've seen lots of references to exercising empty as a way of ramping up/kick starting weight loss - and I have to say that is very attractive. If it is a matter of grit your teeth and get on with it for a few weeks until the fat burner kicks in I would definitely be up for that as well. Thanks for posing this one - I'm looking forwards to hearing the answers! And well done on goat avoidance - they have evil gleams in their eyes when you get up close so I think that was a good decision
Interesting. Yeah, I just hope I’ve not destroyed my ability to run on empty by having a protein shake in the mornings. So therefore my tentative steps to explore how to address it. Watch this space!
And yes, definitely evil gleam in their eyes, and as there are two, they always look boyishly mischievous!
Low carb high fat diets. (So in my book avocados and salmon, rather than bread and pasta) 😄(but I am missing both bread and pasta but cannot eat it as am avoiding gluten)
I knew what it stood for but am disappointed there's no mention of mars bars and ice cream to replace the bread 😆...I was interested just for a second 😉
I wish! I can dream 💭 I’m gluten and dairy free, and my joints have never been better.
But I’m missing the ice cream and milk chocolate 😞. Once in a while I have a mild splurge by putting a spoonful of Nutella in my hot almond milk, and a few marshmallows and i suffer a day of swollen ankles, but that will tide me over for another 2 months or so 😂😂
There could be worse things than not being able to indulge in chocolate I guess … 🤔
So interesting and so timely. As you know, I have the reverse issue, last year, having used up any fat ( and there wasn't much)... my body then started using the carbs, ( which I was not consuming enough of) and burning off the muscle tone too I am now trying hard to put weight back on and by gosh steady and slow it is!
It is a really tricky subject and I would only say, I lost the stored fat, by not consuming enough fuel, overthinking leading to stress... and too many runs! Not a good way to go, so I will be extremely interested in the answers you get!
Plus...I was diagnosed as Pre-diabetic a month or so ago.. weighing under 8 stone, healthy lifestyle, eating regime , and not a couch potato; this brought on by the said ,over worry which apparently raises cortisol levels and affects blood sugars So now my nutritionist is trying to find a way for me to put on weight, using the already healthy diet I have, without putting up blood sugar levels and without raising cholesterol levels
When you mention the physiology of a runner, I had no idea at all how complicated it was!!
It’s tricky Floss isn’t it? But it’s good that you have a nutritionist to advise you as it’s a minefield out there with food.
I know how hard it is to put weight on or maintain it. Once I started ramping up my mileage and I was also going through a stressful life time and the weight just fell off me even though I was already slim and couldn’t afford to lose much.
I did sign up for My Fitness Pal for a few months and kept track of what I was actually eating and what I should be eating. It was a bit of an eye opener for me as it showed I was eating far too much carbs, not enough protein and definitely not enough iron and various vitamins! And I always thought I was a good healthy eater! Clearly not enough of what I should be eating.
So, I made an effort to change my eating habits and it worked well for me. It took several months but I did put on weight and as my body got used to the higher mileage then it got easier. I can still lose weight very easily but I know now what to do to get it back on. I’m more or less at my ideal weight now.
My diet atm is more protein than carbs. If I eat too many carbs I get a bit of Divirticulitis but I need carbs for running! So, it’s a fine balancing act.
Time works wonders and whether it’s trying to lose weight or put it on, eventually the right food will give us what we need.
All the best for your steady and slow approach, it’ll definitely pay off 🙂 xxx
Thanks for this...I wish I had known before, that you had experience of these issues! I am protein biased currently, and hoping that may yield results. I need to take a look at My Fitness Pal! x
It was recommended by folks here at the time and what I really liked about it was you can input your exercise and it takes those calories used for the calculations so you’re getting a fairly realistic calorie goal based on your output. Try it, it’s free and easy to set up….xxx
I don't believe in trying to tell people what to do... but... what I have been reading over the last year suggests that the LCHF way of eating will enable any body to get back to the "right" weight - the danger is of being too frightened of fat! In particular, what we have always been told about a) cholesterol being nothing but a problem, and b) that eating saturated fats increases blood cholesterol, have caused a lot of damage, and both ideas are now being superseded. I certainly think that getting blood sugar levels, and so insulin levels, right are much more important than worrying about cholesterol!It's all very difficult though - and too much advice leads, as you say, to overthinking, which can lead to not eating enough of some of the essential nutrients.
It is interesting though, as I used to run ok without breakfast. And the habit of having a protein shake (with a bit of carbs as they always have) has seemed to upset this ability.
So really interesting. (I think I would class my diet as ‘somewhat’ LCHF. 😄)
I have huge trouble with this..as I have high risk heart disease score as a result of genetic heart disease on the paternal side...Everything else, before the blip was brilliant! I agree absolutely re the blood sugar levels, husband is type 2 diabetic.
I don't worry unduly about my cholesterol levels as our eating regime is and has been for many years good. The overthinking and stress has stemmed solely from the pandemic and worry about responsibility for family etc.
As my nutritionist told me, the answer is to simply stop worrying about everyone... easier said
We are finding things out together and thanks to CBDB whose post I seem to have hijacked.. ( sorry ).. I know a lot more now and feel more ,not on my own Thank youx
So interesting reading these replies, Oldfloss. I am another who, like you and Irishprincess , struggles to keep weight on. I know when I am anxious, I can be prone to feeling hungry and craving sugar/carbs and think this is most like connected to excess cortisol. I have to try hard not to eat quick fix sugars or crisps(!) and certainly, the more balanced my diet, the better I feel.
I never run on empty and think I am possibly guilty of taking on more calories than I use whenever I run!😳🤣 If I run 10k or more, I take Tailwind with me to sip on and on return I make sure I take on extra protein (glass of milk or chocolate milk and maybe nuts).
I’m sorry this has impacted you this way - I have definitely had the same struggles at times in my life. Anxiety is exhausting and the impact on our overall physiology can be massive. Glad you have a nutritionist to support you through this.🙂x
Thank goodness I feel better head wise now.. got that sorted and finding the food bit interesting and quite funny! But before Christmas .. it took a while!
Pre-diabetic… so sorry, Oldfloss , that must be annoying considering running, exercising and good nutrition. Don’t things like that feel so unfair!?
In terms of burning muscle, that’s also what hubby suggested (who had read men’s health magazine for quite a few years, something I’ve always made fun of!).
But according to him fat is the last thing the body will grab. We’re both not experts but according to what he has read, the body used in the following order:
1) carbs that you ate not too long before
2) protein that you ate not too long before
3) Easily burnable fat (not sure about this one)
3) muscle 😳😱😬
4) normal body fat (often together with above muscle?)
Hubby than uses amino acid tablets before working out as it seems to inhibit the body using the muscle as energy.
But I need to look into this all again, and this is what I understood from his readings.
Sounds like you need a pre-run breakfast plan… I see gorgeous dishes in your future… 😄🍳🥞🧇🥣🥚☕️
Ha ha… now that’s an idea … but actually naaa, I like their goats cheese too much. And strangely enough I can eat that, whereas other cow dairy products I can’t.
Oh those zombies lol, and goats! what a run you had. I think you are right about running on fat, I remember my sister telling me once that to lose fat stores you have to go out before breakfast, she was 5ft 6ins and weighed about 8st at the time, she went out and ran about 6 miles every morning and i’m thinking it must have worked for her
Ah that’s where I heard it - I suppose he must base his books/programmes on research? I used to get up and go straight out for a run early but now find I need to eat something first - perhaps because I run a little longer?
It is a fascinating subject CBDB and you can see from my answer to Floss that I’ve had to change my eating habits for various reasons.
I’m one of those people who need food to do anything. I have to eat breakfast no matter how early, porridge with honey 🙂 I have no idea how some people can go out and do a day’s work or run for any distance without a decent breakfast. I’d be collapsing early on.
I have noticed as I’ve got older that my digestive system needs a bit more care and TLC. I’ve always taken it for granted but now I have to really think about what I eat and drink. And of course the running thing makes us more aware too.
Such a tricky subject but one that, as runners, we should perhaps consider more.
This post has been great and so, so interesting.. I think a whole series of posts on this might be useful for folk Thank you for posting this.. I know I have not given you any answers but it has helped me enormously... I feel better knowing that other folk have my issues too ! xxx
I'm afraid I have nothing to add on your dietary question, but I had to laugh at your being turned back by the goats! I have two evil horned devils myself and know that they would probably like nothing better than to run with you, horns, hooves ( and noisy farts) flying - always better to keep a safe distance 😂🐐🐐😍
My understanding is that you need to be properly "fat adapted" not just have eaten few carbs before your run. I follow a largely high protein low carb diet but I've never got it right yet...
I do know that I will not use those sticky gloopy energy gels again, I'd rather run on empty.
You've set me off on a google-fest now. found this on The Conversation, which is usually a credible/reliable source of information. theconversation.com/fat-bur...
That is an interesting read! And yes, i know that the conversation is a university-journalism collaboration, allowing research to be written up with the skills of journalists. So brilliant find! Thanks!
This is such an interesting post, thanks CBDB! I find nutrition fascinating but very confusing!! I always run on ‘empty’ and would certainly like to burn off some fat 😉. I have recently moved to a plant based diet and need to do more research regarding protein, carbs etc.
Well, the protein shake that I often had before a run is oat milk + half avocado + frozen slices of banana + protein powder. Sometimes a spoon of almond butter instead of avocado. But yummy and filling.
But will have it afterwards from now on. We’ll see how it will go.
We tend to get it from a health food shop but it’s often also sold for men’s muscle building. Ours is Pea protein made from … yup, peas.
I used to dismiss it, as I associated it too much with muscle men, but it’s a really great way to get protein rich breakfast without having to rely on eggs and bacon all the time. It thus also helps me keep my carb count low as well.
I used to have to eat breakfast before I could do anything, a firm believer in it being an important start to the day. My only exercise was walking and working on my allotment.
Then I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes, hypertension and hashi’s hypothyroidism. Hmmmm…joined the weight loss forum and read up on LCHF and Intermittent Fasting (IF)…also called Time Restricted Eating as you only eat within a certain number of hours. The commonest is 16:8…fast 16 hours, eat within an 8 hour window.
I used Carb Manager and My Fitness Pal to log my meals. I never went “keto” but managed to keep my carbs to between 50-100gm per day. We would eat our last meal around 6:30-7pm…so my new ‘breakfast’ time would be around 11am.
By the time I started C25k I was 6 months in, and used to not eating first thing. I can run later in the day, but much prefer first thing…usually just a double espresso and/or hot water and lemon to wake me up.
I’m now 18 months in, 3 stone lighter, and my bloods are now below the pre-diabetic range. I’m just on the right side of a healthy waist measurement (31”)…but would be happier to lose some more of this visceral fat…so more low impact exercise seems to be in order!
Oh that’s so interesting! (Hashi to Hashi 👋). I had forgotten that you were also Hashi.
I somehow, probably through my time with a nutritionist, came to believe that intermittent fasting is not good for thyroid conditions. I can’t remember why, though. Maybe with IF it was a too high burden on the thyroid being stressed? I just don’t remember what put me off IF. (I tried the 5/2 for quite a few months several years back with moderate success)
But I have read before that the best thing to drink in the morning is a glass of water with lemon in it. Hot or cold. And that this turbo-charges your metabolism. Never tried that though, as it felt so … meagre compared to a gorgeous tea or coffee, both with milk until a couple of years ago when I stopped drinking milk.
My carb intake is in your range, average (when I do spot measures with carb manager) around 70.
So I think that’s what i will try:
- Water with lemon, hot or cold first thing in the morning.
- Run (3/week) in the morning Just after the lemon water but before having anything else. Also yoga on alternative days in the morning After lemon water. On running days Yoga happens often throughout the day or evening.
- try this with short runs (3-5k / 30 to 60min)
Thank you!!! I can’t say I like the idea of fasting on lemonwater until ca 11am, but theoretically it sounds like a great way to get that fat-burning machine revved up again.
It’s strange how our bodies adapt. When I work an 8am to 2pm shift, I can’t eat before work at all. Yesterday I ate my “breakfast” when I got home at around 14:30. During the morning I had drunk around 1300mls which staved off any hunger pangs!
I have recently started working with a trained running nutritionist and she told me that the energy you need for a run is made up of both fat and carbs. It is like a candle, the fat stores are the wax and the carbs are the wick. The candle won't burn without both and we can't run without using both. The type of run we do determines the proportions we burn these in. Hard running, like hill running or speed running, will use a higher proportion of carbs compared to fat. Slow running (and that is obviously relative and personal to everyone - as we all know, one persons slow might be the next persons fast) but slow, easy running burns more fat compared to carbs. This is why training plans will have a combination of hard and easy running in them, to train your body to be more efficient with burning these energy sources.
She also said that everyone will have enough fat stores for an almost unlimited amount of running - those who lose weight and 'blame' the running, it isn't that you use more fat, it's that your body is more efficient at turning that fat to energy. The issue is that our bodies can only store enough carbs for about 90 minutes to 2 hours of running. You can train your body to get more efficient at burning carbs too, and that's why some people can run quite long distances without needing an energy boost in the form of gels/sweets/etc., and similarly, why some need that boost sooner. But the carb stores being depleted is what makes you feel tired or the reason you may hit the wall during a run, and why eating something like a banana before you run can give you the energy you need, but again, this is personal to everyone. But this is why people also talk about carb loading the night before a very long run, HM or FM, as this will make sure your carb reserves are topped up.
Her advice for pre-run fueling is to try out different things and see what works for you (as usual, there isn't a 'one size fits all' answer) but that fibre, protein and fat might not be the best things to consume too much of directly before a run, as the body can find them more difficult to digest and cause stomach cramps, or the need to nip into a hedge en-route 💩🙈
Anyway, not sure if this is helpful or just a ramble, but it may prove useful to someone, you never know! 🤪😆
Yes, our bodies are so complex aren't they I'm glad you found it useful, I wasn't sure if I was being succinct or just a bit rambling, so if you understood any of it, well done 🤣
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I am now trying hard to put weight back on and by gosh steady and slow it is!
Keeping on running...
Duped by Coach Bennett, and Dire Straits distracting me and making me run 58 mins rather than 50!!, 
