Been a struggle

[pinkaardvark]

Been having a hard time of it lately as the last 3-4 runs I have struggled with getting the pace right and have then had to walk combined with having aching legs which really rob the joy out of running.

I have always had a tender inner shin(feels bruised) after running but just put up with it, but lately my calves have been tight and sore after runs and twingey for days afterwards which really puts me off. So I dropped Thursdays run to lengthen my recuperation but come saturday evening the calves were twingeing and moaning at me again almost as if they have sensed the run coming. I have had this before and sometimes think my legs have their own form of precognition going on and choose just to be mean before a run.

Anyways I went out the door and before I had finished my warm up walk it started heaving it down such that I chose to abandon the run in favour of going out 15mins later, I jogged back to the house and the calves were niggling such that it really robbed the thought of any joy for the run later.

The last few runs have been attempts at 10k but due to the sore legs/heavy legs I have had to curtail them to 5k. I was starting to feel I wouldn't manage 10k again

So off I went again and when I started to run, again the legs didn't feel great but I persevered and after the first 2k they settled down, so much so that I managed another 10k. Not a quick one, and I didn't feel like sprinting the last few k, but not an awful one either and felt like I could have done a bit more at the end.

So I wanted to share that sometimes the niggles and the bad runs build up together with the gremlins to really eat into our resolve, etch away at our enjoyment and make us question whether we really can go the distance. For me the lure of walk breaks had damaged my last few runs(I had never walked before) and I'm not really ready to introduce them yet I think. So a little bit of extra rest and a bit of a hard talking to myself meant I CAN run 10k without walking and I was elated to accomplish this last night

P.s I have had gait analysis and was told I was largely neutral so no insight there really. The new cloudflyers could be making the achilles a bit tight but I switched back to my asics for the prior run and that hadn't helped.

I tried adriennes yoga for runners warm down after the run and felt that helped a lot as I'm not a great one for post run stretching and found the yoga gave a bit more form/reason to it.

[TedG Graduate10]

Hi Pink, have you tried using calf compression sleeves? I use them all the time now....no more calf aches now 😊

[pinkaardvark Graduate10 in reply to TedG]

I have some compression socks I have worn since Xmas. Not for any particular reason though as it has really only been the last 4 or so runs I have had bother. Hoping it works itself out and the yoga helps.

[Hidden]

I always have knotty tight calves if I don't compress them. I also have a roller wand that eases any tightness.

[pinkaardvark Graduate10 in reply to Hidden]

Been trying the roller wand the last few runs. Need to make more use of it I reckon.

[Hidden in reply to pinkaardvark]

I still havent done stretches. Im not sure which ones are ok for my buggered knee.

[pinkaardvark Graduate10 in reply to Hidden]

Probably ones that involve the other leg lol. A lot of stretches target the calf, hamstrings or quads so may well avoid the knee anyways..?

[Lordi Graduate10]

My calves are a bit sore at the mo ( own fault for doing a test run in minimalist low drop shoes the other day) but I've noticed that once I get going the body's natural pain killers kick in ( after a few kms ). I'm working on the assumption that anything serious will "hurt" rather that being a niggle/pain in the butt (famous last theory?). Maybe take a week off? I know I'm going to take a week off later this month to give the old pins a holiday and time to take stock.

[Lordi Graduate10 in reply to Lordi]

Found this useful list of "rules" for runners on Runners World. Covers everything inc twinges, rest periods, nutrition etc..

runnersworld.com/running-ti...

[pinkaardvark Graduate10 in reply to Lordi]

That was a really good read. cheers

[seaspaniel in reply to Lordi]

Good read in particular I noted the rule 6 exception:-

"The Exception: If you’re about to bonk, eating something new is probably better than eating nothing at all."

Bit of a double take then I googled it. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitti...?

Also it looks like I only have another 7 years of running before I plateau (rule 12)

[Hidden in reply to Lordi]

Just be slightly careful as the adrenaline and natural pain killers of running can mask serious hurts.

[Millsie-J]

Mmmmmm not too sure about that theory Lordi.

Pink have you tried daily eccentric heel drops?

[pinkaardvark Graduate10 in reply to Millsie-J]

Not daily no. I have often tried them on the curb after a run. But I can get a bit wobbly post run so never a great time to do them lol. I tend to do the ones where you bend one knee and keep the other leg out behind with foot flat.

[Millsie-J in reply to pinkaardvark]

I was advised by a physio on these, not a static stretch though as per post run:

Stand on bottom step feet half on half off. Slowly raise up on to toes to count of six, then drop down past the step slowly....again to count of six. Repeat five of these, three times. Fifteen in total. Two to three times a day if you can, but any are better than none.

It might be worth a try.

[pinkaardvark Graduate10 in reply to Millsie-J]

Yeah that's what I do off the side of a curb. When I'm not too wobbly to stay on it lol. Will try some during the day when not running

[Bluebirdrunner Graduate10 in reply to pinkaardvark]

You can hold onto the bannister or wall if you do this on the bottom stair indoors Pink.

Also use your roller down away from your knee, and I think a week off after doing a 10k is a great idea...😉xx

[pinkaardvark Graduate10 in reply to Bluebirdrunner]

Good idea. I'm fine in the house, just straight after a run i'm a wee bit more wobbly lol. Yes I have had today off and avoided calf raises at the gym, just the gym tomorrow as well and then I will see how it feels for a wee 5k on tuesday.

[Lordi Graduate10 in reply to Millsie-J]

Neither am I.

[pinkaardvark Graduate10 in reply to Millsie-J]

It's so hard as a new runner to know when a niggle is "stop being a baby and suck it up, life hurts sometimes" or "omg wth are you doing, can't you see your leg is only held on by some gristle and loose sinew, get to a doctor sharpish"

If we go with the former and it turns out wrong we enter the pit of regret, but if we stick with the latter we spend all our time wondering. It's such a fine line and the only way it seems to be able to learn is to experience some of the bad stuff.

[ChrisAllen1 Graduate10]

I can't comment on sore and aching legs as when I have issues its the breathing.

It seems to me that is still a pretty decent pace, I know it can seem awkward but maybe do the first 2 or 3k much slower than your natural pace, maybe 7.30 mins per km and see if that helps?

Good luck.

[pinkaardvark Graduate10 in reply to ChrisAllen1]

Problem I have is I try to go slow and end up with it being 6:15. I don't think I can really run much slower than 7 any more as it then feels my arms don't pump properly. 6:30 feels a good base for longer runs dropping to 6 if I feel good. 5k is heading towards a more natural sub 6 ie 5:45. I think last night's run was a good compromise as the 10k before was 63 mins.

[pinkaardvark Graduate10 in reply to ChrisAllen1]

Think this post went a bit sideways. I was happy with last nights run. I think I was trying to say that although things may be getting a bit gnarly and it seems like your losing your way, things can come back online after a time if you keep at it.

[ChrisAllen1 Graduate10]

I know what you mean, I'm not as quick as you but my "natural" pace is no good if i want to run longer than 5k.

[Hidden in reply to ChrisAllen1]

Our natural pace is probably sprint so we can escape the sabre toothed tigers. Slower pace is for food exoeditions over a distance. I always set off faster than the rest of the run, even when Im convinced Im going slower than I really am...

[Bazza1234 Graduate10 in reply to Hidden]

There is no such thing as "our natural pace" - we all are capable of running different paces form our slowest to our fastest depending on distance AND the condition of our bodily systems. Mostly people use this term to mean a pace which they find "comfortable" but for many newish runners this "comfortable" pace is actually too fast for their bodies. I defy all to run slowly/jog alongside somebody who is walking. Most will find it very uncomfortable and it will actually hurt in the leg muscles - but this is simply because those muscles have not been worked before. However it IS good for you. Try going to parkrun and running alongside the tail walker for the full 5K and appreciate how poorly those muscles involved have been worked.

[Hidden in reply to Bazza1234]

I disagree. I believe we do have a natural pace, where everything comes together, our muscles, breathing and spirit, and we fly. It is a sublime feeling. I ran a lot in my youth and can recall that magical feeling, that feeling of hitting the sweet spot - have felt it twice since I began running again. However, I do agree that that pace changes as we grow fitter and adapt to the skill of running. Then that pace will be different.

[Rignold]

"I don't think I can really run much slower than 7 any more "

well, you have answered the question of the aching legs, then.

Leave the ego behind, don't pump your arms (?) and learn to run at training pace.

[pinkaardvark Graduate10 in reply to Rignold]

I'm not sure that's helpful. I have run faster before and never had problems at that pace. So I don't think it's an ego thing at all. I'll happily run at whatever pace feels comfortable. As a new runner I'm very mindful of trying to push too hard or too fast but as a new runner I also don't know the boundaries at all time hence why I'm part of the forum.

[Rignold in reply to pinkaardvark]

I think you misunderstand. If you are new runner, running at race pace on training runs is going to overtax your muscles. Well, regardless what stage of your running you are at. Training should be at around 60-85% of race pace depending on distance. Saying you are unable to run slower than 7 min/km pace is ... I am struggling to find a word that means nonsense that you will not take umbrage at...

What will happen if you do? Will you fall over? no. Will your lack of arm pumping prevent you from completing the run? no.

I am not a subscriber to the coddling "everyone must run as slow as possible" attitude. By all means build your speed, but if you do it all the time you will end up with sore muscles and not improving.

When you go to the gym, do you try and do your 1 rep maximum weight every time you lift? Or are you able to lift lighter weights when you are doing higher reps?

[pinkaardvark Graduate10 in reply to Rignold]

I wasn't running at race pace though. I was running at long run slow pace. Sure I can run slower but I find it difficult to pick a pace accurately. Ie I think I am running slowly and then realise I'm not when the watch gives me the timing. I understand your reasoning of if your going too fast and it hurts slow down. But I have been experiencing niggles running less at the same pace and with more rest lol.

I don't go to the gym any more. I just lift up the Mondeo the once in the morning 🤣

[Lordi Graduate10 in reply to pinkaardvark]

Pinkie. What does your Garmin say for "Time in heartrate zones"? You can tell how hard you are pushing it (5/4 zones) hard, (zone 3) comfy or easy jog (2/3 zones).

Edit - My post-flu runs were hard, I'd say one hr zone higher for the same paced runs that I achieved pre illness. That could be something to do with it?

[pinkaardvark Graduate10 in reply to Lordi]

I think it has always said "stop you are dying" "your v02 max is that of a 90yr old" and maybe even "god you look fat in that"

[seaspaniel in reply to pinkaardvark]

There is a special platinum subscription which will also help by commenting on your clothing e.g. "Lycra? Really?" and "you need a hat" or "try something even more luminous". Although the "you look like a ninja" was encouraging.

[Bazza1234 Graduate10]

I assume your 10K run was a training run by yourself?/ - or was it a race with others?? IF it was "only" a training run, then unless you are an exceptionally gifted adult runner , it is quite fast and I would be willing to bet that it was probably too fast for your ability and/or level of fitness?? One hour 7 minutes is about my PB for the 10K - yesterday I did a "Zone 2" 10K in 1hour 27 minutes!!! - and even then, because i have not done a full 10K for some time, my leg and feet muscles knew about it when I got back home. I fully understood yesterday what running training is all about - it is to stress our different bodily systems in different ways , so that these systems can harden up and we can do it all again!! Have you put any of your PB times ( only those obtained in an actual "race" where you have gone all out) into one of the many training calculators available on the Internet to get your various training paces???

[pinkaardvark Graduate10 in reply to Bazza1234]

I have never done a race Bazza. I have only ran10k 3 times with times of 68 63 and last nite 67 mins. I don't have an issue with my time. My niggles had come from prior non 10k shorter runs. I was just trying to say I had had a few tough runs but it came good lol.

Garmin says 57 mins for a 10k race. I have a race proper next month and that seems reasonable.

[Bazza1234 Graduate10 in reply to pinkaardvark]

On what basis is Garmin saying that you are capable of a 57 minute 10K? - the results of your 5K runs of around 27:30?? If so, then 1 hour 7 mins is probably Ok as an easy long run pace - maybe just a tad fast? However , note that I used the word "capable" - all these calculators say that this is your predicted potential 10K race time - but ONLY if you have put in the necessary training for that increased distance.

[pinkaardvark Graduate10 in reply to Bazza1234]

I don't know how Garmin works it out. Not sure I really care to be honest. As far as i'm concerned it's a crock of $%^&. But you asked :).

It feels like you may be trying to answer a question I wasn't asking. My post was just about having a few tough runs and some niggles getting me down but it all coming right in the end and conquering my little demon.

57 mins doesn't seem an unreasonable target for me in good conditions though seeing as i have done it in 63mins in the rain and the dark on my own.

[HeleneCorsa Graduate10]

As someone who is not good at finding a good training pace, I get what you mean about struggling to run more slowly - bit in the sense that I just don't think I am yet good enough at gauging my speed and even when I make efforts to keep it down, if I get distracted or lost in thought it is easy for my speed to creep up again. I know It's something I need to conquer if I am to increase distance, or indeed even just keep running without constant injury. I recognise I am very much a novice in this respect.

It IS good when it all comes together despite all the individual elements seemingly conspiring against us, so I'm glad you had a fulfilling run.

[Millsie-J]

Glad you felt it came together for you Pink, and glad you enjoyed the yoga! Take a look also at Ekhart Yoga for runners, very good as a warm down stretching session 🙏🏼

[pinkaardvark Graduate10 in reply to Millsie-J]

Thanks MJ. Will have a look at the Ekhart vids also. Currently planning to try one of the adrienne ones each night as there's a lot of ones to choose from on youtube. Definitely felt it with the warm down one and really liked the fact that it was stretching but with just another dimension to it, really looking forward to my class a week tuesday. May even order some recycled bamboo tiki pants to keep rignold on side

[HeleneCorsa Graduate10 in reply to pinkaardvark]

We'll need photographic documentation.

[pinkaardvark Graduate10 in reply to HeleneCorsa]

Cheeky .. wasn't even sure what a mens tiki pant was, google didn't find me any but did return this fetching suit opposuits.co.uk/suits/tropi...

[HeleneCorsa Graduate10 in reply to pinkaardvark]

Good lord! This will greatly amuse my flamingo-enthusiast daughter. I'm sure you can forego the tiki pants if you compensate with beard beads

[MikeJones68 Graduate10]

Good for you on getting out there and doing another 10k. I feel for you with the shin pains as I suffered from those during the middle part of c25k. I was told by the running coach at work that the most likely cause would be heel striking.

[pinkaardvark Graduate10 in reply to MikeJones68]

Thanks Mike. I was fairly confident that i landed on the midfoot but when I watched the video from gait analysis I saw I was heel striking lol. Funny how the mind lies to us. I have read a lot since about running styles and it seems it's best not to try to alter it.

I have never really been sure whether the tenderness I feel in the inner leg is actually shin pain as I have never been sure what the heck shin splints are lol. Looking at pictures of legs I tend to believe it is the soleus muscles as it is my inner leg that gets sore on the left side. (never sore when running though, always just tender afterwards)

[ju-ju- Graduate10]

Foam roller will deffo help. Are you keeping track of your weekly mileage and not going over 10% ? Might be worth consolidating your distance for a while before upping? Also as you go further be mindful to slow down your longer runs to get the longevity.

[pinkaardvark Graduate10 in reply to ju-ju-]

No real plan to go further than 10k at the moment so weekly distances will stay static for a bit. Do own a foam roller but not used it for years, been using the roller wand thing instead and hoping the stretches of yoga will help also.

[ju-ju- Graduate10 in reply to pinkaardvark]

good plan, I dont know what the wand is, but if it gets deep in muscle then that sounds good... It s the ITB that can often get really tight leading to problems lower down ( in my experience)

[pinkaardvark Graduate10 in reply to ju-ju-]

it's also called a self roller. Basically a metal bar with hard plastic beads on it that spin round. It has handles either end so you can run it up and down your legs/arms torso etc rather than having to use your own body weight as you do with a foam roller.

[ju-ju- Graduate10 in reply to pinkaardvark]

sounds fun!!

[pinkaardvark Graduate10 in reply to ju-ju-]

If you're into self flagellation, sure.. lotta fun