K2 supplement

[jools56]

Having read on this forum that calcium/D3 is best supplemented with K2 to aid absorption, I've been taking it with my (prescribed) iCal D3 chewable tablets for some years. I had breast cancer in 2016 and was prescribed Letrozole, and as I had radiotherapy too, advised to take iCal and Alendronic Acid. I was diagnosed as osteopaenic after a DEXA scan. I had to stop AA as it made my hands and feet painfully swollen. Unfortunately I fractured my femur in June. A general medicine doctor visited me on the ward and quizzed me about my repeat meds and supplements. He told me not to take K2 as it would 'do things to my blood' and that I should be getting enough from my diet. What do you people think? I'm confused!

[walk21]

Doctors don't seem to learn much about nutrition. Vitamin K is used to stop bleeding after a birth. Vitamin K2 is slightly different chemical which helps our bodies to use calcium in our bones, and not to clog our arteries. The work to prove this was done in Japan and is sometimes disputed. I hope someone on here can give us references

[Met00]

K2 will do good things to your blood, as it's been shown to help prevent arterial calcification and consequent heart disease! Very few doctors seem to know about it.

[Nessie87 in reply to Met00]

Exactly! I think we have to do our own research. Vitamin K2 gets the calcium into our bones and not our arteries! You can get it from matti, but heard it’s an acquired taste. ‘Bare Biology’ do a supplement with vitamin k2 and vitamin D which are both good for our bones.

[Carmelite]

Just to say that I was prescribed Alendronic Acid. It made me feel quite ill and gave me very painful stomach ache.

[LynneH-19]

I take K2 mk7 and mk4, ( Life extension Super K) without problems, but some folk can get rapid heart beat, especially with the mk7 form, so like all medication, you can get side effects.

I initially looked at buying the mk4 type, as this is used as an osteoporosis treatment at a dose of 45mg, in some countries and supposedly has a lower risk of side effects, but it worked out very expensive buying it from a U.S. supplier, with living in the UK . Partly due to the UK Customs duty that gets slapped on, when it enters in UK.

I think you need to speak to an NHS consultant, who deals with osteoporosis cases. The one I saw was a rheumatologist, who also specialised in OP.

Quite often if you have had a ‘bad ‘ fracture, like a broken a hip, perhaps after treatment for another unrelated condition, like cancer, the diagnosis becomes osteoporosis, rather then osteopenia, regardless of the DEXA scan readings, so you should also consider other OP treatments.

I stopped taking AA due to side effects in 2011 and have been on Strontium Ranelate ever since. It agrees with me, but again not everyone.

Please get specialist advice first.

Good luck

[trishbindefeld in reply to LynneH-19]

Vitamin K2 mk4 has a very short hss as of life compared with MK 7 so you need larger quantities several times a day. Mk7 is superior in that respect. Very few if any , combined capsules contain sufficient k2 to balance the amount of vitamin D they contain. I take 5000iu of vitamin D and 600mcg of k2. You also need lots of magnesium of course to activate the vitamin D.

[LynneH-19 in reply to trishbindefeld]

I tend to alter my vit D intake according to my blood level, which I send off to be checked, at least twice a year.

The optimal D level I go by is: 125 to 175 nmol/l.

If my level falls below this range, I would up my dose by taking 5000 IU per day, for a few months, then revert back to my 2000 IU capsules. If necessary I would check my blood level again.

I’ve found as I’ve reached my mid 70s, I no longer seem to make D3, via summer sun on skin, so I take D3 capsules all the year around. I always take them with a fat containing meal and my K2 with a different, fat containing meal, to aid absorption.

I get vitamin A retinol, from cod liver oil .

I aim for 1200 mg of Ca per day, from my diet. I’ve only occasionally needed to take a Ca supplement if I’ve fallen short of my target.

I used to buy Holland and Barretts chelated Mg tablets, which unlike other forms, never upset my guts. Each one contained 150 mg which was convenient. I would take 3 or 4 a day depending on my Ca intake. I would aim for an approximate ratio of 2 Ca to 1 Mg.

Unfortunately H&B stopped selling these, so I now take Solgar Chelated Mg, which is not as convenient as one tablet only contains 100 mg,

We optimistically assume that the assay values on supplement labels and those listed for all the foods we eat are correct. These probably vary from batch to batch, also the season, in the case of fresh food. They are only an average guide!

Best wishes

[trishbindefeld in reply to LynneH-19]

Magnesium bisglycinate and Malate are both chelated . I use Kirkman magnesium malate which has 160mcg of elemental magnesium.

[LynneH-19 in reply to trishbindefeld]

I’m not familiar with the Kirkman brand. Is it made in the USA? I’ll have to see whether our UK chains stock it. Thanks for the information.

Best wishes

[15Bella]

Hello Jools56, I too had breast cancer and had my breast removed, I was put on Letrosol, and prescribed AA. I didn't take AA as I did lots of research and decided against it. I was then put on Tamoxifen, which caused bladder problems. So after a long discussion with my consultant who told me that taking Tamoxifen would only protect me from getting breast cancer in my remaining breast by about 3%, however it could cause cancer of the womb. No brainer as far as I was concerned, do I don't take any prescribed medication. However, I do take Calcichew with vit D, K2 Mk 7 and Magnesium Glycinate. I do lots of walking, gardening and eat a healthy diet.

So far I feel fine and I hope this continues, the trouble is with Osteoporosis that there is no pain and unless you are scanned for it you wouldn't know you had it.

Lots to research, but whatever decision you make it is yours to make.

Best wishes.

[trishbindefeld in reply to 15Bella]

I’m in the UK!!

[HeronNS]

Vitamin K2 may in fact even help prevent some of the problems associated with calcium supplements. Although Vitamin D is essential for absorbing calcium it does nothing to tell calcium where to go. So Vitamin K2 sends the calcium to the bones where you want it, thus preventing it from settling onto the walls of blood vessels and into organs where you don't want it! And it is important to balance the extra calcium of supplements with extra magnesium, which you should take a different time of day than calcium. Calcium supplements can prevent proper absorption of other minerals (like magnesium and iron) so I prefer to take calcium separately from them. I haven't heard there is an issue with it interfering with vitamin absorption, although it can be a bit of a problem with some medications.

An excellent book is Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox by Kate Rheaume-Bleue.

Dentists seem to know more about Vitamin K2 than physicians, probably because they have to deal directly with the side effects of bone medications in their patients as the jaw is so often adversely effected, and Vitamin K2 is beneficial in safely maintaining bone density.