Wisdom From the Ages

[Bigbread]

Some powerful words I came across this morning from Seneca the Younger, a Roman philosopher from around the time of Christ:

"It is the privilege of great men alone to send under the yoke the disasters and terrors of mortal life: whereas to be always prosperous, and to pass through life without a twinge of mental distress, is to remain ignorant of one half of nature. You are a great man; but how am I to know it, if fortune gives you no opportunity of showing your virtue?...

"No tree which the wind does not often blow against is firm and strong; for it is stiffened by the very act of being shaken, and plants its roots more securely: those which grow in a sheltered valley are brittle: and so it is to the advantage of good men, and causes them to be undismayed, that they should live much amidst alarms, and learn to bear with patience what is not evil save to him who endures it ill."

We hear all the time that 'what doesn't kill you makes you stronger'. Well, I hope you know that those words are more than a simple cliche. In fact, it's wisdom from the ages.

Don't despair, no matter what you face. When you are on the other side of your pain, you will be better for it. That's impossibly hard to buy when you're paralyzed in the muck of anxiety (no one knows that better than me!!), but it's true.

Each and every one of you is stronger than you know!

-mg

[nedd]

Interesting take. But was it written from the advantage of privilege!

The words are encouraging upon to a point.

My hackles rise at

'what doesn't kill you makes you stronger'. To me it's not a badge of honour. More a handful of good luck. I wonder if you can only testify to that when you have weathered the storm. True often clouds gather around you through life. But you need respite to regroup.

Those words remind me of someone who once said to me as my son was dying,

"God only gives you what you can bear",

Good manners prevailed and I resisted the temptation to flatten them.

His words at seven years old ring in my ears.

"It's not fun any more mum". As he was sat on the floor trying to play.

Sometimes life can break you. If there is no respite. For mind body and sooul.

However I do get the point of that a sheltered life does you no favours,

Go well.

And thanks for posting, I do like something to mull over.

[Bigbread in reply to nedd]

I can only imagine how hollow (even dismissive) that sentiment landed when you faced the loss of your child. In times of acute turmoil, a higher order response is one of unqualified compassion and empathy, I believe. That is exactly what I feel for you in hearing about your experience.

I view Seneca's words as worthy of contemplation not with respect to any given event, but rather in relation to one's entire life - A recognition of the resilience / growth of the human spirit in the face of strife. I'm influenced by the writing of Viktor Fankl in the same way. I suppose I'm comforted by the notion because otherwise there is simply no way for me to fathom or construct any meaning out of the persisten anxiety and panic that I experience.

I appreciate your take.

[Windy101 in reply to nedd]

I don't believe that God only gives you what you can bear. What a paronizing statement to hear in the midst of great sorrow. At times like that I wish a thunderbolt would strike right by that person, or Jesus would walk up and say, "I'm sorry, but you obviously have no idea what you're talking about." Have you read Viktor Frankl? He is is the only writer I've read who conveys a true understanding of suffering and transcending it. His work is based on his time in a concentration camp, when his wife was also incarcerated separately, and I believe killed.

[Bigbread in reply to Windy101]

Just finished VF's Man's Search for Meaning. I echo your sentiment on the understanding embedded in his writing. It's made me decide to research the psychological method he developed - logotherapy

[Windy101 in reply to Bigbread]

It's wonderful. His depth and compassion are so inspiring.

[nedd in reply to Bigbread]

Logotherapy.how interesting.

[nedd in reply to Windy101]

Thankyou for your reply. Not patronising. More I believe the sort of thing put about by those who live charmed lives who have never been up against it, to keep the masses in place and plodding along.

Never read VF. On account of I have always viewed it as something that may be too dark for me. I am careful where I go, but I may check it out as I am off to the library. Thankyou.

[Hidden]

That's great and so true. I did object a bit to 'Great Men' and nowadays it would be great men and women too. But he was writing for his times so fair enough. Thank you for posting that. x

[Bigbread in reply to Hidden]

Agreed, sadly an affliction that permeates so many otherwise great works from history. Much of what forms the basis of relief for me with the mental illness I experience is rooted in mindfulness / Vipassana. It's wonderful that if not most, at least many of the leaders at the forefront of that world are women.

[Hidden in reply to Bigbread]

Yep I am impressed that as a man you recognised this!

I get confused sometimes. Sometimes man means generic man. At other times it does mean man only.

I remember doing a quiz and the question was 'Who was the first British woman in space? I pointed out that Helen Sharman wasn't only the first British woman in space, she was the first Briton in space and that is the way the question should rightly have been worded. The way it came across the impression was that all the men had gone first and now it was a woman's turn. To me this downgraded her huge achievement.

The quiz person was a woman too and she argued blue murder with me on this point. So did nearly everyone else there male and female so I shut up. I know I am right though.

Will get off my soapbox now. x

[Windy101]

"Blue murder" - I love that expression! I'm American and have never heard it before. I write fiction and will use it in my writing somehow!

[shannon_nicole777]

CS Lewis has some great wisdom on the subject of human suffering and pain in his book "The Problem of Pain". I gave it to a friend years ago and have never gotten it back but I loved that book so much because it gives a whole other perspective on what we experience as suffering in this life and how we should respond to it.

[Bigbread in reply to shannon_nicole777]

Beautiful - Thanks for the recommendation!". I'm light in my audible queue right now, so I'll pick up TPOP straight away!

[shannon_nicole777]

Are you a Christian BigBread?

[Bigbread in reply to shannon_nicole777]

Not particularly - was raised so, but I'm not a practicing Christian. Come to think of it, speaking of CS Lewis - I've read His 'Mere Christianity'.....

[shannon_nicole777]

Ok, was just checking. He was a renowned atheist who became a Christian later in his life. Which is when he wrote many of his great works. Just thought I'd share that before you went to pick up The Problem of Pain.

[shannon_nicole777]

BTW, i'm not suggesting you cannot read it unless you are a Christian, but that is the perspective he is coming from. It's still a very worthwhile read.

[Bigbread in reply to shannon_nicole777]

Gotcha. I really liked his other book so I'm looking forward to this one.

[shannon_nicole777]

Also, I totally agree with you about the whole sentiment of a tree not becoming strong unless the wind has battered it. I completely regard my struggles as a chance for me to become stronger than I already am and have had to be in my life. I do not perceive it as a punishment or myself as being a victim ...but rather I see it as a gift. Because now I have the power to help others through the struggles I have faced and still do face. Especially since anxiety is something that so few understand unless they have personally gone through it. A lot of people scoff at people going through anxiety and just tell them to "toughen up" or that it's all in their head and isn't real... I know for a fact that the things I have gone through are very real and cannot be beat by simply "being tough". We need to be compassionate to ourselves as well as others. So I know that while anxiety might not look like a "gift" from the outside or even from the inside, the way we choose to look at things and the way we think can have powerful effects. I used to think the power of positive thinking was a joke. But it really can help us, if we learn to cultivate that power and use it in our lives on a daily, sometimes hour-by-hour, minute-by-minute basis.

[Bigbread in reply to shannon_nicole777]

Well said. You're spot on that those without any firsthand experience are bound to either misunderstand or minimize it. The problem as I see it is that the average person views anxiety as a concept, and rationalizes their way through it (expecting me to do the same). But I experience anxiety as a feeling. A feeling can't necessarily be rationalized away so easily. I can grasp intellectually that there's 'nothing to be afraid of', yet that doesn't mean a damn thing when I'm in the throws of panic. The emotional energy drowns out all other consideration. That's very difficult for most people to grasp.

It has dawned on me that being on the receiving end of lack of empathy from others at an illness they don't share has brought about a newfound compassion towards those who struggle with emotions that don't afflict me. I am not a particularly compassionate person naturally. So in this sense, I also see it as a gift of sorts. Also, knowing such acute pain gives me a sense of appreciation for the moments when I am clear headed and free of anxiety. I suppose it's helped me live more in the present moment, and that truly is a gift

[Windy101]

Well said ... suffering does for many of us create great compassion for others and much gratitude for the times we are free from it.

[Michdau1]

Just stumbled across this and love it!!! Thank you ❤️

[Bigbread in reply to Michdau1]

Glad to hear it!

[Michdau1 in reply to Bigbread]

Great to get a reply ha ha! Didn't expect one as your post was from some time ago 👍 I just wanted to put some good vibes out there really. Hope you are doing well and thank you again for sharing 🤗

[Bigbread in reply to Michdau1]

I dropped off for some time, but was day dreaming yesterday about how fulfilling it would be to staff a hotline for anxiety sufferers. Then it dawned on me that I already have a venue for that and I jumped back on here. Good timing.