Can someone please recommend what type of magnesium to use for Etopics, PACs, PVCs? I tried magnesium taurate 500mg twice a day but haven’t noticed any difference at all. Also, if you can recommend a trusted brand, I would really appreciate that also. Thanks so much.
Magnesium : Can someone please... - Atrial Fibrillati...
Magnesium
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Debjimmay
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I take Magnesium Taurate, but you can also try Heart Calm. A lot of people like that. I use Cardiovascular Research brand for Taurate. Works good for me.
I take Mag Taurnate as well from Ethnical nutrition, but only 1 per day, an hour before bed. I also get a lot of Magnesium naturally from eating a whole food and plant based diet, including fruit, almonds , spinach and lots of green veg also beetroot.Also have a small piece of 100% dark chocolate every day.
I have used Nutri Mega Muscleze ,a Mg compound includes taurine,for 10 years.
If I have any future issues, I would also consider using Magnesium Trio from the Philip Weeks London clinic.
How long have you been taking it for? It can take months to feel the full effect of magnesium supplements.
I also take magnesium taurate 500mg twice a day. I was directed to take magnesium by my cardiologist at my first appointment. It's very difficult to know whether it is helping with AF or other palpitations as too many variables. I still have occasional skipped beats etc but I don't track the number or frequency and even if I did it might be because of other changes I've made or other factors.
I track AF episodes and haven't had one since starting Mag taurate (2 1/2 months) but I've gone 3 1/2 months previously (on another firm of magnesium) without an episode.
At this stage all I can say is it might be helping me.....
Have you discussed with your doctor?
Hi! Thanks for your reply. I’ve only been taking the magnesium taurate for a couple of weeks, so I guess that’s not long enough to know if it’s going to work or not. I do think I will cut back to just 500 mg once a day. I thought that taking it twice a day would be too much and maybe I should even cut back on the 500 mg. no I haven’t discussed taking magnesium with my doctor, but what encouraged me to try it was I watched one of Dr. Gupta’s videos on YouTube that magnesium will definitely help with arrhythmias. He mentions a different type of magnesium, though which I can’t find here in the States. I don’t know why I’m having so many problems with arrhythmias lately. It started in October and it hasn’t stopped since then. Usually it’ll go on for a couple months and then I won’t have it for several months but this time it’s just staying around to cause me severe stress and anxiety. Just looking for anything that might help.
Correction, my current magnesium is 400mg magnesium taurate tablets each containing 200mg magnesium and 12.5mg Vitamin B6. I take 2 of those a day, which is per its directions.My former magnesium was 500mg tablets (magnesium aspartate dihydrate) but each was only equiv to 37.4mg magnesium. I was taking a total of 4 of those a day.
So moving to my new tablets has more than doubled the magnesium I am taking but importantly, I'm only taking dosage in the directions for my new magnesium.
I see my cardiologist for annual check up in 4 weeks and amongst other things, will be discussing my change in magnesium supplements with him noting he didn't specify form or brand. I also wonder given low magnesium content of my original tablets whether they were underpowered.
also check your blood levels I was low in VitD, Magnesium and CoQ10 I have been supplementing now for a year and now rather than noticing ectopics every week it’s now maybe once a month. I take Mag Taurate from Cardiovascular Research and 2000iu of VitD3
If you feel that magnesium hasn't worked, then you have found the same as I have despite lots of trying; and you have found the same as every creditable doctor who has properly studied oral magnesium. There is, unless I am missing something, no worthwhile evidence that oral magnesium prevents heart arrhythmias (i.e. AF, AFl, ectopic beats, etc.).
What this means, logically, is that there can be no difference between brands and, even, salts or organic compounds of magnesium. These latter have been shown to be absorbed just a little quicker, but all excess stays firmly in the bowel to be excreted (which is why it is such a useful and perhaps the safest and most effective of all laxatives). It is the very low level of oral absorption that makes magnesium so safe to take and so well worth trying.
If you feel that a different brand will work, and you find it does, then it is surely likley that you have found how powerful the placebo effect can be. That isn't to denigrate this important effect in any way as it is such a useful thing to us. If I were you, I would buy a brand from Boots or other reputable pharmacy and try that.
I found this article interesting (regarding placebo): "The Enigma of Placebo in The Animal Kingdom" by Tal Fisher (online article).
Steve
Thank you for your reply. I’ve read so many cases where magnesium did help people that had PVCs, PACs, and Etopics, I’m thinking, maybe I haven’t taken the magnesium long enough because it’s only been two weeks. I’m just desperate to find something that will help as my heart is out of rhythm almost all day and all night. It causes me severe stress and anxiety. The only time my heart is in normal rhythm is in the morning when I wake up. Not sure why that is but I enjoy it when it’s beating normally that’s for sure.
I seem to be much the same as you but mine waxes and wanes. Doesn’t yours vary over the weeks and months at all?
I’m never without palpitations, though. Just recently they’ve been at their worst for some time and this last year or so has been the worst since my ablation for atrial flutter in 2019. Like you, I worry about it and sometimes the fear is very difficult to deal with. I think many with occasional AF but who suffer with frequent ectopic heartbeats are in the same boat but I suppose some can fight their fears better than others.
Have you had any heart scans at all, such as an echocardiogram? I was lucky also to have had an MRI. I found those to be very reassuring in the sense that they showed no structural disease of my heart and its own blood supply.
Do you know if your ectopic beats are PACs or PVCs, by the way? Has a cardiologist investigated them and advised you at all. They are almost always “safe” or “benign” s as they are often called. Really excessive PVCs can be helped a great deal in some cases with an ablation. If you really are bogged down with worry, is a private appointment a possibility?
With regard to magnesium, well, I don’t think it can do anything in and of itself or the several attempts to show that it does wouldn’t have drawn the blank they have. With any chronic illness that can’t be cured, I think there will always be this, that and the other that some people find works to some extent and by which they swear. They are very lucky that they can find such relief. I wish I could.
The internet and social media have the effect of pooling individual views into a single source yet they are actually from an enormous geographical area. This can make it seem that certain things are a commonplace, when, in reality, they are likely anything but. The older media such as TV, press and radio has always been capable of spreading ideas for good or ill, but it is held far more effectively accountable in law. Social media is hardly accountable at all. I think if we don’t use it carefully and treat it sceptically, it can create a kind of false consciousness or idea of what reality is like - and does so like nothing else has in history. There - I’ve got on my high horse. Sorry!
Steve
Yes, I used go in and out of normal rhythm for several months at a time but in the last few months, I’ve been bothered every single day which causes me extreme stress and anxiety which I’m sure only makes it worse. It sounds like you are experiencing the same thing and I wouldn’t wish this on anyone.
No I have not had an echocardiogram. I would love one but my EP wanted me to have a chemical stress test, but I was terrified to go through that since I was having so many arrhythmias. I asked him if I could have an echo, but he refused pretty much saying it’s the stress test or nothing. He ordered the stress test because he wanted to see if it was safe for me to go on Flecainide. So, even though I didn’t have the stress test, he still wants me to go on Flecainide because of Afib which is another whole story I’ll try to explain.
I wore a heart monitor for two weeks and the results said I had a total PAC burden of 11% and a total PVC burden of 1%. Also, “There was no clear evidence of Afib, although baseline, artifact, and frequent sees and certain strips, make it impossible to completely rule out the presence of a small burden of a Afib”. So my question to the EP was do I still need to be on Eliquis? He said that’s a good question but yes, you still to stay on the Eliquis. I asked him if I could just take 2.5 mg instead of 5 mg and he said no. I’m so confused and stressed right now. I’ve decided I’m going to get a second opinion with a female EP. Maybe she will be a little more compassionate and understanding and willing to work with me a little more…hopefully.
Well, I guess it’s time for me to get off of my high horse now. lol I seem to be looking for answers to questions that are impossible to find. I would like to mention one more thing. When I went to my regular cardiologist 3 years ago because my Apple Watch told me I was in Afib, I asked him if there’s any testing we can do to make sure I’m have Afib. He said no, if your Apple Watch said you have Afib, then you have Afib. You immediately put me on 5 mg of Eliquis twice a day. I have worn a heart monitor for two weeks twice in the past couple years and neither times the results picked up Afib. So now I’m thinking I took blood thinners all that time and I really didn’t need to.
I think you'll likely come to a similar conclusion to me after all this and that there's so much still unknown about heart arrhythmias and what to do with patients who have them. Flecainide is said to be useful for PVCs but PACs aren't often treated so far as I can tell. Your possible AF is why the Eliquis is needed since the fear is that any amount of AF increases the risk of stroke.
It's all a bit of a mess and a worrying thing to have, that's for sure. I've had a couple of weeks now of heavy ectopic beats with two periods of AF and it is all such hard work to put up with. Of course life goes on, and there are many in a far worse boat, I realise that, but with an anxious mind running on overdrive, it's so tiring as you know only too well.
When you say you haven't had an echo scan, then I wonder how your EP knows about the structural soundness of your heart, since, so far as I know, doctors don't like giving flecainide unless the heart is, apart from electrically, known to be in sound shape.
Steve
Steve, I have a question. I’m a little confused on ectopics as to what they are. I first heard about them on here and I’m wondering if etopics are PACs and PVCs? And what about Bigeminy? Are they etopics also?
To answer your question about my EP wanting to test my heart before starting me on Flecainide. Yes, he wanted me to have a chemical stress test and I canceled the appointment because I was terrified about having an injection to make my heart race or go fast because it’s been doing that all the time lately and I felt I just couldn’t go through with it. I asked them if there was any other test I could take and he said no. He said because I had a stress test five years ago and it showed my heart to be OK that I can go ahead and take the Flecainide. Do you think an echo will show the same results on your heart as a stress test will? Do you think the echo would be better than the stress test?
I’ve been watching Dr. Gupta videos on YouTube. I’m so glad I found him because he seems to be very sympathetic and understands what we go through with our heart issues. He said a stress echo is the best test to check for issues with your heart. Do you agree with that?
Right now I’m in the process of getting a second opinion from a female EP. I came home in tears last week after a visit with my current EP and decided he is not willing to work with me on testing procedures or medications. I’m terrified of taking Flecainide because when I asked him what the side effects were, he said it could kill me. Really? How can you tell this to a patient who has extreme anxiety to begin with? Unbelievable.
I think your EP has a sense of humour! Most anti-arrhythmic drugs, such as flecainde, can as a side effects cause ventricular fibrillation (i.e. they are potentially and rarely, "pro-arrhythmic"). Hence his comment. The "stress" injection would be not very noticeable to you. I would definitely have it as it will give useful extra detail about your heart's condition. I don't know why you haven't had a heart scan, but I know a good cardiologist (an EP is just one with extra training on performing catheter ablations) can tell a great deal from a 12-lead ECG, especially a stress ECG. I would trust the doctor, rather than me on this!
To understand an ectopic beat, and the word means "out of place", it's necessary to know that a natural heartbeat, called "normal sinus rhythm" (NSR), starts in the cells of the heart's "natural pacemaker", the sino-atrial (SA) node, which is situated in the top right of the upstairs portion of your heart, the atrium. These cells produce electrical energy that sends a wave of contraction through the atrium, pushing blood into the downstairs part, the ventricles. The wave of electrical activity and pressure opens the valves between the top and bottom of the heart and also sets off another node, the atrio-ventricular(AV) node which a tiny bit later causes the lower portion of the heart to contract or beat to push oxygenated blood to the body (the left ventricle) and deoxygenated blood to the lungs (the right ventricle). What we feel as the pulse in our chest, neck or wrists is, I gather, not the heart pumping, but the valve slapping back shut.
In an out of place, "rogue" or ectopic beat, the electrical impulse starts elsewhere than in the SA node. It can arise in almost any other part of the heart muscle, it seems. If it's in the atrium, it's called a PAC(premature atrial contraction), and if it's in the ventricles, it's called a PVC. The heart cells are all individually capable of acting as a pacemaker, it seems, hence each one can set off an ectopic beat.
These beats occur in everyone, even youngsters, but in some, they are too common for comfort. It seems also that PACs might be able to set of AF in prone individuals. The ectopic beat will be an "early" or "premature" beat coming in-between normal beats. This causes the next normal beat to come in a little later, leaving a "compensatory pause" between beats. This causes the valve to shut more firmly as a little more blood has been allowed in, hence the feeling of "palpitations" or a "thud". Runs of ectopic beats can cause the pause to be missed and create tachycardia. I get runs of two and three called couplets, bigeminy or trigeminy. Runs of three or more are also sometimes called, from PVCs, ventricular tachycardia (VT) or, from PACs, supra-ventricular tachycardia (SVT).
Many people like Dr Gupta and his "bedside manner" is extraordinary. He is, of course, in the business of private medicine and making money from YouTube via Google's advertising policies and such like. I'm not so keen as I was on him as he does gloss and approximate a great deal and give out some rather less than scientific information. Still - that's just me. His videos are an unusually good source of information and rather better perhaps than the "Dr. Afib" website in my view, but he is another excellent source of information.
Steve
Wow! Thank you so much for explaining all that to me. Some of it I don’t understand but I’m going to go back and reread it again. I appreciate you taking all the time to explain everything to me though. I take it you’re either a doctor or work in the medical field as you know so much about heart rhythm in such great detail.
Yes, I did notice that Dr. Gupta wants you to go to his website and order the magnesium he recommends. He did explain that he does get somewhat of a cut when someone places in order but at least he’s being honest about it.
Thanks again. I appreciate your help and answering my questions.
I use magnesium oil. Rub it gently into a muscle and it is absorbed easily so by-passes the gut.
I use it for leg cramps and it works well for that. I rub it into the big muscle at the top of the leg when I get cramp. If you have sensitive skin there are some brands that are made for that.
I find that there is sometimes a residue that can sometimes cause my skin to itch a bit as it dries but, once it's absorbed, it's OK to wash or shower it off.
Magnesium Glycinate
My understanding is we are all low in magnesium. Remember it works on muscles and the heart is a muscle. You don't say how long you have been taking it. I would keep at it as it is an essential mineral we all need.
I’ve only been taking the magnesium a couple weeks so maybe that’s not been long enough for it to work. I was taking 500 mg twice a day but I think I will just take 500 mg in the evening and that’s it. I’m just desperate for anything to work because these etopics and PVCs are, really causing a lot of stress and anxiety for me
This might sound wierd but ...
I had a very high burden of ectopics - 30,000+ a day.
I read a book about Earthing/Grounding and it made sense to me. Our hearts are electrical. There's a video called "The Earthing Movie" I think and it's worth watching. We insulate our bodies by wearing man-made soles on our shoes and by having carpets and vinyl on our floors so if we have too much electricity in our body it has nowhere to go - unless we Earth ourselves.
Extra electrical signals were confusing my heart to the point where it didn't know when to do what - so it didn't - and I was diagnosed with Heart Failure at level four.
There was nothing to lose so I tried Earthing myself for twenty minutes before I went to bed. With bare feet I took a cuppa and stood on the wet grass in my front garden. (It had been raining.) I got some funny looks from my neighbour but who cares? : -)
I dried my tootsies and went to bed and had the best sleep I'd had in years.
I now use an earthing mat in my bed and I have a mouse mat that is earthed too, so when I'm using the computer I rest my hand on the mat and am Earthed. My HF is down to "mild" and I was discharged by the cardiologist I was seeing. My ectopics have dropped to "normal" numbers.
That was about six years ago. I get the "flutters" sometimes and I use my Kardia to check what's happening and it tells me that I have occasional PVCs but that this is normal.
I'm a 78 year old male.
It might not work for everyone but it costs nothing to find out.
Do some research and it should begin to make sense.
Best wishes,
George
Hi George. Thank you for sharing! It definitely makes sense. How might I find The Earthing Movie video? I would love to watch it.
I found the movie on YouTube. Thanks!
Magnesium citrate is readily absorbed, however, in some cases it can cause looser stools, especially if not taken with food. That can be a minus for some or a plus if you suffer from constipation.
Jim
I have had some success with Taurine as well. I have a very similar course as you, with extremely frequent PACs, Atrial Bigeminy, etc. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss more of what I have done/not done.
Hi Megan. How many milligrams of the magnesium do you take? How long have you been taking it? Do you have a hard time tolerating the Bigeminy and PACs? I will have the arrhythmias constantly all day long for days and I feel weak and have no energy or desire to do much of anything. But when my heart is a normal rhythm, I feel like an entirely different person! My mood changes and I have so much more energy. I also have pulsating tinnitus so I can hear every irregular beat. I can also feel each one. Sometimes being able to hear my pulse helps, other times. It’s annoying and causes more stress. So yes, please tell me more of what you’re doing and not doing to deal with this. I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy that’s for sure.
I have had several years of struggle with this issue. I have Atrial Tachycardia, Atrial Bigemjny, a HUGE burden of ectopics (PACS). It feels terrible. The doctors say it is no big deal,but it is super life altering for me. I have many symptoms. I have a 20-60% burden at any given time (20,000-30,000 a day). I believe it has to do with inflammation. I am curious about the earthen post.
I have tried so many different things, and as of yet, Taurine is the only thing that seems to make a dent. I take the Heart Health supplement recommended by others. I take Magnesium Taurate (400-800mg) and I have recently added Taurine and Arginine. I bought the Taurine in powder form and am trying 2g a day. It seems to be helping. I have had one ablation for the ectopics and may have another before the year is up. I have a terrible time with them. I can't sleep, have no exercise tolerance, etc.
Please keep in touch. It is a tough place to be and many Cardiologiststs/EPs don't get it. Thankfully mine does. He us trying to get me relief, but the meds are terrible too.
Morgan, I’m so sorry you are going through this. I know exactly what you are saying though and exactly how you feel. I hate when the doctor says it’s normal and you won’t die from it! If Really? If this is normal, which does abnormal feel like? My EP is not sympathetic with me at all and told me if I don’t let him treat me the way he wants then I will have to look for another doctor. I’ve decided to make an appointment with a female EP for a second opinion.
I tried taking magnesium taurate but ended up with terrible diarrhea. I was taking 500 mg twice a day. I’m going to try taking magnesium glycinate and see if this works better for me.
I’m so thankful for this forum and for people like you that are willing to share how they cope with their issues. I used to feel all alone, but after being on here, I realize that I’m not alone. This really helps.
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