using transdermal estrogen patches to combat ADT SEs. Some experiences and information.

[Kaliber]

This is a report on my experiences with estrogen transdermal patches with benefits and pitfalls to date.

first a bit of my information. I’m a medical super responder ( it’s rare, you can google super responder ) stage4advanced prostrate cancer patient. I’ve authorized both my oncologist and palliative care Dr specialist to do “ papers “ on their patient experience / treatment with me. That being so, everything mentioned here might be / probably will be somewhat different for non super responders. My PSA was 1400-1600 when DXed and my initial diagnosis very grim and immediate entry into inpatient hospice urged , that I had very little time left to live. That was 6 years ago this past October….I've been on xtandi , lupron , zometa ever since.

So, as time passed, I slowly physically degenerated….. lost my mobility a couple years ago ( I’m in a wheelchair ) , have substantial neuropathy waste down, have small vessel, white matter brain damage ( minor , so far …from xtandi ) , diabetes/ vision impairment and many others. My psa stays at less than 0.10 so far. Recent body scans show a slow progression of my already body wide extensive Mets.

In recent times I began to spiral down / auger in , mostly from treatment SEs. As recently as 5-6 weeks ago I was in a state where I was asleep 16-24 hours a day ( waking to pee every 25-40 minutes ) . I was spiraling down , in a groggy state mostly unable to become fully awake or make myself get up off my couch or bed and even go outdoors, let alone get in a vehicle and go somewhere. It was dire and scary / alarming and progressing.

Based upon reports I’ve read here on the group, a while back , I asked my palliative care specialist to try transdermal estrogen patches. Initially she said NO ( emphatic ) , but a couple weeks later she called and said she had conferred with some of her peers and decided to let me try them. ( no doubt a bit spurred on by the juicing up of the research papers they are going to do, as well ).

I started with the lowest dose 0.025 mg patches. Basically a micro dose. This about 4 weeks ago. I’m starting my 5th week today. Immediately, within the first 24-36 hours , my sleepiness started to dramatically disappear . I’m awake now , mostly normal ( still with a slightly groggy element ) . I get up and get out, I’ve been out of the house more in the last two-three weeks than many months combined preceding the patches. Also the patches have a psychological element, they are a mood elevator as well. A very pleasant and handy mood elevation. there are other minor SEs, so far, breast further enlarging, finger nails and hair growing at amazing rates, ……. Shopping for designer handbags on Amazon ( rotflol …. Kidding about the guccchi ….maybe )

Alas, all that glitters is NOT gold. Estrogen causes me serious constipation / bowel movement - bowel blockage issues, I haven’t had a normal bowel movement in weeks. Estrogen causes me to have serious bowel blockages which are very difficult to manage and will make you terribly sick with sepsis and cause a scary trip to the emergency room if you let them go without clearing them for several days.

I love the benefits of the patch. For me, they are life changing in a beneficial way. I would REALLY hate to have to give them up. Currently I’m managing BMs manually, every couple days, with mom and or sienna. I have an appointment on December the 2nd to review the patches with my Palliative care specialist. I’ll know more after that meeting. That’s it for now, this my report on transdermal estrogen, I’ll report more if something interesting comes up.

Thank you brothers and sisters,

Love you all, hang in there

❤️❤️❤️

Picture: me out of the house on my etrike ( horns on helmet ) thanks to estrogen. Having lunch at a sidewalk restaurant near my house, at a table they kindly keep set up for me on my etrike.

[treedown]

I am happy for you all the good they give. Hopefully they can resolve the BM issue better than your current fix. Glad you able to get out and about again on that e-trike. Hopefully your not terrorizing the neighborhood with that horned helmet (images of MadMax in my head).

[Kaliber in reply to treedown]

Thank you brother, I’ll be meeting my palliative care Dr on the 2nd of December. I already use sienna to accommodate the narcos and the plugs they generate , I suppose I can add in accommodations for the estrogen if need be. It’s most likely wouldn’t be something long term, ….. I’m in the instacroak territory now as it is ( prolly cardiac but stroke equally likely ) . The estrogen is pretty important to me, it’s stopped me from arguing in …. That’s a big deal. Chunking more time on. Ima gonna run outta work-a-rounds and cheats one of these days and it’s gonna smack me. Rotflol. Hope I’m up tossing down a couple of cold ones , up in the restaurants, when it smacks me. That’d be the epitome of success lol.

The little kids think I’m from a comic book or cartoon and enjoy my appearance, adults far more wary and cautious. lol

This picture with my cold weather trikeing gear on.

Love you brother

❤️❤️❤️

Cold wind googles and mask.

[treedown in reply to Kaliber]

That's quite the gear choice. Never seen anything like it. What's cold weather for you? I am riding to my Lupron shot today and it's a high of 45. My cold weather gear is quite a bit different 🙂

[Kaliber in reply to treedown]

Well ….. rotflol …. I guess most people don’t consider mediterranean climate zone cold. Here it’s just under 60f and gentle raining. No wind. It’ll be in the low 60s mostly. The problem is that if any wind at 70f or less happens, my eyes start tearing up like a river flowing. If I don’t keep the googles and lower face separate, my breath fogs my googles. It’s all necessity driven. Had the same gear combo for my Harley too, this time of the year.

I’m sitting in my jacuzzi , my banana tree jungle looking healthy, nothing cold days yet, this year. Banana trees hate cold days lol. Most of my yard is north of the equator foliage. But many / most yards here have balanced north ( of the equator ) and south plants. Many yards are awash with flowering plants right now.

Winter roses

[treedown in reply to Kaliber]

It makes a lot of sense. What part do the horns play?

That's great weather but I guess we all get used to what we have if we get out, or we don't and stay in. Me I always prefer to get out unless there's heavy rain or ice in the roads. It's all about the kit, as you clearly have shown.

[Carlosbach in reply to treedown]

How are you doing tree?

[treedown in reply to Carlosbach]

I am well. Still plugging along trying to keep this body running as long as I am able. Not dealing with as much as K though so he keeps me humble.How are you?

[Carlosbach in reply to treedown]

Feeling my oats today. I was having a lot of pain and had some slight rises in PSA, so I caught the anxiety train for a short time. Fortunately, scans are clear, and PSA has stabilized for now.

Turns out the pain is accelerated degenerative disease from ADT. So, no new bone bets, but still getting to experience increased levels of joint pain. My primary care doubled my dose of effexor, which has helped with the pain and almost eliminated my hot flashes and crying spells. Feel like getting on with life today!

[treedown in reply to Carlosbach]

That's good news ultimately. Glad to hear. Life has thrown you some loops lately, glad to hear your still fighting. Not like we have much choice, the alternative really sucks.

[Carlosbach in reply to treedown]

don’t paste on bumper stickers, but do like to wear shirts with a message

Tee shirt with quote

[JohnInTheMiddle]

Another signal! I report from the use of transdermal estradiol patches in the wild. Bravo. And a continued success and improvement! Look forward to more reports.

[Kaliber in reply to JohnInTheMiddle]

Thank you buddy.

❤️❤️❤️

[Papillon2]

I have a hunch that if I ever saw you battling a bear, I would probably need to assist the bear! I'm really pleased to hear that you're feeling better. I hope you'll keep sharing your journey with us. Wishing you all the best." 👍👍👍

[Kaliber in reply to Papillon2]

You are very perceptive, the back side of my red etrike battle wagon is WELL equipped lol. Thank you brother.

❤️❤️❤️

[Oldie68]

Thank you for sharing your journey. It is helpful to know there are options which work, but are still not very popular with oncos. I was wondering if you have tried Miralax or Meta Mucil for constipation? Also where do you get the patches from?

[Kaliber in reply to Oldie68]

I do have Miralax and Metamucil top on my list. I already accommodate the plugs generated by opiate use with sienna, I’ll probably find a new daily accommodation combination that fits both as well. Great ideas buddy.

My estrogen patches are prescription from my Pallitive care Dr specialist. I get 4 pacs. I wear mine on my upper glutes switching patch to patch , left to right, week to week.

❤️❤️❤️

a lot of times getting transdermal estrogen is like pulling teeth. After a “ point “ tho, comfort outweighs other considerations when you are already teetering on the edge anyway.

[KocoPr]

Thanks for the post and very glad to hear you got out of the funk!

I convinced my MO to prescribe estrogen patch. We will be awaiting a test he ordered (E2 E1 fractionated) to get a badeline.

How often and where do you apply the 0.025mg patch? And are you measuring E2/E1?

[Kaliber in reply to KocoPr]

We ….my palliative care Doctor and I, are watching for changes in my spiraling into the drain, mostly. The changes have been dramatic….. beneficial. My microdose patches is only 0.025 mg….it might be hard to evaluate in my body. In any event, at this point we aren’t doing any labs for them.

I apply mine on my upper glutes , switching from left to right , week to week. Mine stay on perfectly in the jacuzzi. I do have the special clear covers for them but haven’t needed them yet.

Of course there is highthened risk of bloodclots and cardiac failures when using estrogen in men, but there can be a point where trying them is the less of the evils. Like in my case.

❤️❤️❤️

[KocoPr in reply to Kaliber]

So one patch per week?

[Kaliber in reply to KocoPr]

Yes, a prescription of 4 , one a week. If you wad one up or screw it up putting it on your body, you have to replace it out of pocket. Lol

❤️❤️❤️

[Kaliber]

just fyi brothers: hijacking and side threads on any of my posts are not only encouraged but are great when they are or promote socializing and/ or camaraderie for us croakers here.

Have at it …if you feel the need.

[Carlosbach]

K,

So exciting to read your report on the positives about your use of the patches. I’m also anticipating an update on which bag you chose, are you going with a shoulder bag or a clutch?

Sorry to hear about the GI motility issues. My wife suffered with those while taking opiates for pain. I tried helping her by feeding her bamboo (it works for pandas), but she always has to make up her own mind, so I don’t know if that would help or not.

Awesome that you are getting out of the house, and that you have place close by to grab a bite and a couple of brews.

Take care my friend

youtube.com/watch?v=7REI-kB...(Not working as expected?)

[Kaliber in reply to Carlosbach]

rotflol ….. well now that you mention it, I do have my eye on a nice little Coach brand, alligator pattern, green clutch / shoulder bag , just say’in ….. 😂😂😂😂😂

Yea I use daily Sienna to manage my opiates …. , I can see possibly adding or switching to Miralax or one of the great fiber choices … this to handle both sources of dangerous plugs. It’s worth it to find an avenue of success …. The benefits are nearly priceless.

No kidding, I thought I was a goner, I could hear the creaky hinges of the hospice gates. I’m sooooo thrilled to be out and about again, it’s great buddy. I’ve done more miles on my etrike in the last two - three weeks , than in many months previous to this.

I don’t have shopping centers close, nearest one about 1.7 miles. But, the etrike is city street worthy , in bike lanes ( kinda looks like an Vespa from some angles ) and can travel 30 miles @ 18mph max. I’d estimate there are between 60-80 interesting stores / shopping centers within striking range of the e- trike. The echair is completely different and would be dangerous in bike lanes but being lighter and much smaller, it transports , on the Bruno carrier, much easier. They are both good in their own way. I live near the CSUF AG university. On the north border exactly. Great hike and bike trails converge at the school, and campus is beautiful. The north side of Fresno has beautiful parks in every neighborhood.

Small view of the commons at the AG school on a recent weekend from the etrike.

[Carlosbach in reply to Kaliber]

Such good news

Send me the deets on the Coach bag, especially the color. Otherwise I’ll just have to go with red to match your trike and your strappy stilettos.

Tell those hospice folks to just stay busy helping folks who actually need them

[Kaliber in reply to Carlosbach]

Well er ….. at $5800 for the small one , I’d rather buy those clicky , black patent leather , stilettos first. ( 55 xxxxxx wide are hard to find tho )

Just say’in.

😂😂😂

You can get the catalog from Spartacus for free if you ask them. A friend told me about them, never used them for years myself. Rotflol.

Just say’in

❤️❤️❤️

[Carlosbach in reply to Kaliber]

Well, I’m not a fashionista like you and Doc, so I will refrain from weighing in on your behalf. Plus, I can understand wanting to draw the eye towards your Rubenesque ankles. I’ll see what I can find in your size

[Mascouche]

My friend, who is that person with horns on its head that appears in the window on the photo you posted? If it is Satan, tell him to stay away.

[Mascouche in reply to Mascouche]

Never mind. Just read that it was you lol

[Kaliber in reply to Mascouche]

lol … it’s adjustable actually. If the magnetic horns are curved back, it RAM mode . If the horns are forward facing, it’s bullish mode ( great fun on the AG school ) and if the horns are turned facing each other, it Shogun mode.

An interesting note : if I wear the horns facing forward, fox squirrels are totally oblivious to me on the scooter. I can drive right up to them and they totally ignore me. If they are turned back facing, the fox squirrels scatter up trees. ( this on the AG college full of lives tock, cows and bulls. ) . Guess they don’t see bulls as a threat. If I pull up to the dairy operation barns , horns forward, and let out a loud Moooooooop. The ladies get pretty excited, almost to the point of jumping the fences. When I’m zooming around the campus on student days , I have a handlebars horn that emits a loud Moooooooop. ( among 18 other sounds ) I’m pretty sure I hit a few of the streaming streams those evenings when the students are off. lol

❤️❤️🌹

[Andy1569]

Thanks for sharing all this solid info with your brothers!

Fight On!

Andy

[Kaliber in reply to Andy1569]

Thank you buddy. Some, of it is good medical info, some frivolous fluff meant to distract and or entertain, ramblings of a xtandized brain - lupron fogged lol. Sometimes just thinking about the lint in your navel or the winds wafting around your lounge chair in your backyard …. Sometimes those are the best thoughts for guys like us. Just letting go of the ugly stuff for a bit …. Sometimes that’s the best medicine of all.

Love ya buddy

❤️❤️❤️

[MouseAddams]

dude, I’m glad things are going well for you. Serious question what type of etrike do you have? I’m looking for something to tool around on locally.

[Kaliber in reply to MouseAddams]

Welp , etrikes are a big field of machines. The one I have drives like a motorcycle because I can’t walk or pedal a bike. But I think you walk fine and probably ride a bike too. In your case I’d suggest a etrike that has pedals. You can drive them motorcycle style like mine, but better you can pedal them for a massively more fun experience. You don’t need effort pedaling them, rotating the pedal crank casually with your feet provides that shove in the back forward power that speeds you along . Riding one of these makes you feel 15 years old again. They are literally thrilling. Some advertise 30-70 mile range at 28 mph. Most fold in half or better for easy transport. I also suggest the fat tire type for off-road use and a 750 to 1000 watt drive motor for amazing power and acceleration.

There are thousands of models, but to get you in the ballpark, google the Mooncool etrike. It’s inexpensive compared to many and has great features. The one I owned was a Motan. I’m not promoting any brand , just mentioning a model as an example of what I’m suggesting. My particular current etrike is a ewheels ew-38. You can google all these models and get the gist of everything. Always look at places selling them like Amazon and see which ones sell the most and have the best customer service. Amazon is killer for this kind of shopping. If you buy from Amazon, the etrike will be delivered to your driveway and even set up for you for a few dollars. If they sold 28,342 this past month and it has thousands of 5 star ratings , it’s most likely what you want. Etriking is amazing fun , especially for us old guys damaged by cancer . We can still get out and enjoy the outdoors sunshine and the wind in our hair. They take very little trouble, just recharging after a ride and most have the ability to carry a 2nd battery for double the range and riding experience. If you get the fat tire type and ride off-road, you might have to give your tires the puncture proof treatment. Easy to do yourself, in expensive at a local bike shop.

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