Small dose of Orgovyx can increase efficiency of antiangrogen monotherapy

[Leonardo556]

I was on bicalutamide monotherapy three years. My testosterone vas very high (1500) and was surprised why reaserchres and doctors didnt try to lower it. I had not tools to do my own experiment until Orgovyx appeared.

Two years ago I was ready to buy Orgowyx in USA but it was impossible.

One of the user of HealthUnlocket - novatimo had three free packing but here is his answer:

“Hi Bogdan, I made this offer as a 'good samaritan' but I've since learned that there are serious legal consequences for those who are not a doctor or pharmacist and are caught mailing prescription drugs - even within the US. If Relugolix isn't legal in Europe, it's entirely possible also that Polish Customs could confiscate the shipment. Please accept my deepest apologies for not being able to help.”

OK, now we have Orgovyx in Europe 100 USD (not 2500) for packing. It is also easily refundable, so I have it free.

I finished bicalutamide one year ago and started Nubeqa monotherapy. Half a year ago I saw that PSA slowly rising up. I decided add low dose Orgovyx.

I have conducted many experiments with Orgovyx dosage. It cost me a lot of health and required numerous blood tests. I will only mention that a dose four times lower than recommended brought my testosterone to a castration value, which was accompanied by unpleasant side effects such as hot flashes, insomnia, memory problems, abdominal problems.

I tried half a tablet twice a week. The hot flashes did not subside.

For a month and a half, I have been taking ⅛ of a tablet of Orgovyx (about 15 mg) in combination with 2x1.5 tablets of Nubeq (900 mg) daily. The results are very promising. The side effects are mild, I hardly notice them. The oncological result is promising because PSA has dropped nineteen-fold since the experiments began.

Adding small dose of Orgovyx can increase effectivness of antiandrogen monotherapy but also resolve problems of gynecomastia.

My goal is to keep cancer in HSPC and LV state while having mild side effects.

My post is also answer to a question I have seen on HealthUnlocked , what is between zero testosterone - ADT and high testosterone - antiandrogen monotherapy.

[Mascouche]

Hi Leonardo556,

It is baffling indeed if doctors give you a drug to lower your testosterone and yet it remains high for 3 years and they do not change course along the way.

That said I took a peek at your bio and unless I misread it your PSA has gone down when you took bicalutamide. I do not understand how taking that drug would lower your PSA without lowering your testosterone. What am I missing?

[Tall_Allen in reply to Mascouche]

You are missing basic biochemistry.

[Mascouche in reply to Tall_Allen]

Funny but is it helpful?

From reading another response of yours below, I think I now understand. I thought that Bicalutamide was like Lupron or Orgovyx and that it blocked testosterone production.

From your other answer, it seems like it blocks androgen receptors, which makes it more like Zytiga just older. Under that light, now I understand why PSA would drop without T dropping also.

[Justfor_]

Minimum Effective Dosing is the name of the game.

[Leonardo556 in reply to Justfor_]

I agree with you

[Justfor_ in reply to Leonardo556]

Have you seen my Bicalutamide maneuvers thread?

[Tall_Allen]

Antiandrogen monotherapy blocks androgen receptors (ARs) in all cells (cancerous and healthy). With nowhere to get used, testosterone (T) builds up in the serum. All that extra T is metabolized into DHT and estrogen (which is why it causes gynecomastia). ARs on cancer cells quickly become androgen-resistant, which is why castration-resistance and death occur much more quickly when monotherapy is used. If you want to forestall castration resistance and death, go heavier, not lighter. This has been proven many times.

[Leonardo556 in reply to Tall_Allen]

Testosterone blockade by antiandrogens is not perfect. Therefore, a reduction of testosterone by a small dose of Orgovyx from 1500 ng/ml to, for example, 700 ng/ml causes a several-fold reduction in PSA.

[Tall_Allen in reply to Leonardo556]

One should not imagine that treating PSA is the same as treating prostate cancer. We now have lots of Level 1 evidence that maximal hormone therapy increases survival.

[Lost_Sheep in reply to Leonardo556]

Is testosterone suppression proportional to Orgovyx/relugolix dose?

I am told there is a threshold (effective) dose level for Orgovyx. Below that threshold suppression response is nil and above the threshold no additional suppression occurs. (Essentially, like an on-off switch, not like a brightness or volume knob.)

Am I misinformed?

(edited to remove a confusing and self-contradictory sentence construction)

[Leonardo556 in reply to Lost_Sheep]

I do not know the principle of action of Orgovyx. However, we can make some deduction.

When I used a dose of 0.5 tablets every 3.5 days, I had severe hot flashes, which certainly means large fluctuations in testosterone, so the drug worked.

Currently, I use a dose of ⅛ tablet per day, hot flashes have almost completely stopped. Nevertheless, the testosterone measurement (24 hours after swallowing the last ⅛ tablet) indicates a significant decrease, which means that the drug worked in some way.

Perhaps the dose used is sufficient to briefly stop testosterone production. Even if the mechanism of stopping production is zero-one, we do not know how long it lasts and how the mechanism of starting testosterone production by the body works. In addition, there is Nubeqa, which increases testosterone. In addition, there are short half-life times of both drugs. Theoretically, it is difficult to work out this mechanism, so the only thing left is a practical experiment.

Testosteron

[Lost_Sheep in reply to Leonardo556]

Leonardo, I congratulate you on your clinical trial of one. I am doing pretty much the same thing with estradiol (but I have a great deal of clinical trials which have guided me).

[cesanon]

Estrogen patches can reduce the side effects.

Some docs use higher levels of estrogen to treat prostate cancer as well.

[Lost_Sheep in reply to cesanon]

Cesnon, I started out using high-dose estradiol trans-deramal patches (per the protocol of the PATCH study) . On the advice of a pharmacist I switched to injections. Working VERY well now and more convenient without having my backside carpeted with patches. PSA this week is below 0.014 ng/ml, as low as my laboratory can measure.

Estradiol serum level about 500 ng/ml or about 2,000 pmol/L (normal for a man is about 7.5 to 50 pg/ml and maintaining a decent level is necessary to prevent osteoporosis in both men and women. Testosterone suppression also suppresses estradiol to near zero, so a supplement is a good idea for men on conventional ADT. )

Testosterone about 10 ng/dl or 0.35 nmol/L (half the current definition of castrate level, 20 ng. Castrate level was recently set at 50 ng/dl)

[VictoryPC]

I totally agree. Intermittent therapy is the key. If you use PCSPES with it the results last longer and resistance is avoided. That's it.