Methionine restricted diet for recurring PSA and positive PMSA pet scan w/ 1 bone met

[Eieio]

quick to the point. PSMA pet showed 1 L2 small met and some lymph activity. My PSA went from 2.01 to 2.9 in one month.

after doing some research on diets and supplements . I found that the keto diet is extremely high in the amino acid methionine and I made it worse trying to reduce my blood pressure with supplement called TMG ( trimethylglecine or betaine anhydrous) this is in the methylation group and it’s supposed to take homocysteine and reduce it in your bloodstream and it lowers blood pressure and it worked great. However, in the process of doing this creates more of this methionine. Which apparently is one of the actions that feed prostate cancer cells. All news to me only three months into using it and I have a PSA spike. So without any studies, I’m pretty sure that’s very much linked. No doubt had circulatory cell fragments outside the original treatment window in 2021.

so any help in this area would be greatly appreciated. I don’t have a resources to look at all of the studies out there. But what I have seen is methionine inhibitors or in plain term, something that reduces methionine can help starve prostate cancer cells with different actions of signaling and glucose uptake, and some of the examples: cut paste below

resveratrol, metformin, spermidine, and 2-deoxy-D-glucose. These compounds act through various mechanisms such as activating AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK), inhibiting the mechanistic target of rapamycin (mTOR), and modulating mitochondrial function.

so I do see a few studies out there that have two deoxy D glucose and metformin to starve out glucose and other cellular reproduction of cancer cells. Apparently cancer cells need multiple times the glucose to reproduce than healthy cells..

so my question is, has anyone been on a diet restricting and methionine? It seems like all the food I do eat chicken fish beans have high concentrations of this in it. Some antidotal studies that don’t have much real data state, with restricted methionine and ADT have some long term efficacy.

I believe in an earlier post tall Allen recommended caution with any antioxidant therapy with radiation. You could correct me, but I believe that within the methylation groups of B12 B6 and these amino acids maybe that’s what you were referring to? I have upcoming IBRT and xandti with eligard in the next few weeks.

[JohnInTheMiddle]

A low methionine diet seems difficult to impossible to achieve. However interesting the hypothesis. Worth discussing though. In layperson's terms.

[Eieio in reply to JohnInTheMiddle]

I agree a pure vegetarian diet does not seem feasible or attractive, that’s why I was fishing for anyone who may have used glicin, metformin, 2 deoxy glucose. As an inhibitor for the methionine synthesis. The 2D glucose action with metformin has some studies but I can’t find good info yet.

[JohnInTheMiddle in reply to Eieio]

I'm on metformin because of borderline glucose management issues, but really as off label adjunct therapy for metastatic prostate cancer. Lots of decent research although no big clinical studies yet. Thank you for highlighting a link between metformin and methionine.

[garyjp9 in reply to JohnInTheMiddle]

How much metformin do you take?

[dhccpa in reply to Eieio]

I've been on the whole food plant based diet for five years now. It may not be your cup of tea, but it's very doable.

[kainasar]

Here's some data on levels of methionine in foods myfooddata.com/articles/hig...

[kainasar]

Here's some technical info from Mr Shea

healthunlocked.com/fight-pr...

[Nusch]

I stopped eating all animal products after DXed in 11/2017. Based on some studies I started to add some fish to my plant based diet (sardines, mackerel). I avoid sugar, fat (except little quantities of olive oil) and alcohol. Doing quite well with it, also regarding sports. My blood tests are fine, just supplementing some calcium, magnesium and B12 (which I manage to stay at the lower limit). From my personal experience I can recommend it.

[dhccpa in reply to Nusch]

Re: sugar. Do you eat whole fruits?

[Nusch in reply to dhccpa]

Of course. I’m aware about sugars and refer to all kind of artificial sugar.

[dhccpa in reply to Nusch]

Ok cool. Just clarifying because some folks try to claim that even whole fruits are bad.

[NanoMRI]

After my unsuccessful salvage RT seven years ago, I easily cut back on my Methionine intake. I looked at the top 15 sources and I was over the top on many of them. For example, I luv turkey and brazil nuts - near daily binging it seemed. Been holding usPSA 0.03X range over three years now, no ADT.

[Eieio in reply to NanoMRI]

So it seems from the replies that there is substance to the studies that methionine is also a culprit in cancer cell proliferation. Any one who replied ever had a small metastatic recurrence prior to the low methionine diet similar to myself. I unfortunately did not know that my supplement TMG trimethylglicine converts blood homocysteine and pools the methionine. This seems to be a common thing people take for high blood pressure and a lot of folks here have high blood pressure from zytiga and eligard or Lupron. Just want to get the word out that’s the last thing you want to take . Seems like stoking the fire.

[NanoMRI in reply to Eieio]

Yes, it seems to me we can stoke the cancer - why I cut back. As I had RP I don't see my cancer as recurring, but rather remaining. I made my diet changes after my unsuccessful salvage RT and before salvage lymph node surgery at usPSA 0.11.

[Eieio in reply to NanoMRI]

NanoMRI I agree that we can control some aspects including the causal affects of diet. I haven’t gone thru my salvage yet. I’m hoping to do what I can , such as diet and knowledge

[NanoMRI in reply to Eieio]

Yes, "some aspects" is perfect way to see this, similar to everything in moderation. I once ate brazil nuts by the handful(s), nearly daily; if I recall correctly #2 on methionine list.

[MateoBeach]

Kudos to you for going deep into the mechanisms and interactions of cell signaling and substrate use ("the weeds"). However you are unlikely to find an effective pathway to beneficially impact your PCa progression. Prostate cancer is extremely adaptable to nutrient sources, etc. It will eat whatever you eat and take whatever it needs. Methionine is in all proteins so there is no eliminating it.

Better to go after the cancer that you have. If that is just the one L1 met and "some lymph activity" hopefully meaning few sites (oligometastatic), then I would talk with and excellent RO about SBRT targeting of all sites.

[Eieio in reply to MateoBeach]

Yes I have spoken to my RO. To treat the visible pet scan areas of interest. Then back to eligard with xandti for 2 years. My hope was to augment the radiation with a triplet or quad approach. Here is one study bmccancer.biomedcentral.com...

I know there’s practitioners that are private pay that do similar type treatments. However, I’m a normal human and can’t pay those prices and need to rely on my insurance and conventional medicine and wisdom. There are several Japanese and traditional Chinese medicine that also augment with white button mushrooms Rishi and other pathway blockers for androgen.. but appreciate all the input so far . Methionine has some MetA antagonists that in healthy individuals would not want. Everyone needs good protein synthesis. However, in my case, and in many of others with the inducement of apoptosis ( preprogrammed) cancer cell death is what I want. ADT is intended to block the androgen signal pathway to hopefully control the the replication. However, ADT does not help the body scavenge and eliminate cancer cells. Where are these other treatments when compounded can help induce the natural process.

autophagy plays important roles in cell survival and maintenance.

Here’s one study bmccancer.biomedcentral.com...

[Lizzo30]

Here is a list of methionine foods - plenty of good stuff on the safe / green list

texaschildrens.org/sites/de...

[Eieio in reply to Lizzo30]

That’s a great cheat sheet