In the book Jane lists various cocktails as supplements to conventional treatments....
I would like to know what are the cocktails adapted to Prostate cancer cells....
Beside fat free diet and Green tee she talks of supplements....
Berberine Dipyridamole Metformin aspirin...some type of statins
ursolic acid with Curcumin
Vitamine C high dose...
It may be useful to have opinion of our members..
...regarding Janes approach
You cannot starve cancer.
That pretty much answers your question.
Scientists are working on starving cancer of nutrients.
Cancer Research UK Homepage
cancers’ abnormal metabolism could lead to a new way to ‘starve’ tumours
Taking advantage of cancers’ abnormal metabolism could lead to a new way to ‘starve’ tumours
Category: Science blog April 19, 2017 Emma Smith
Credit: Dan Kitwood/Getty Images/Cancer Research UK
Cancer cells need energy and nutrients to carry on growing. And, because they often multiply rapidly, cancer cells have a high demand for fuel.
One tempting idea for treating cancer that’s emerged over the years is trying to cut off this fuel supply and ‘starve’ the tumour.
But there’s a hitch.
Healthy cells rely on the same sources of energy and nutrients as cancer cells. So any treatment that deprived cancer cells of fuel would also stop our cells and organs from working properly, leaving us in serious trouble.
Scientists are a persistent bunch though, and don’t give up easily. Over the last decade there’s been a renewed interest in finding out exactly how cancer cells get the nutrients they need to grow.
Now our researchers at the Beatson Institute and the University of Glasgow might have found a way to shut down cancer cells’ fuel supply, while at the same time leaving healthy cells unaffected.
And the potential treatment uncovered by the researchers, led by Professor Karen Vousden and Dr Oliver Maddocks and published in the journal Nature, might be surprisingly simple – a specially made diet for cancer patients undergoing therapy.
Cancer and abnormal metabolism
Cells rely on a family of molecules called amino acids to grow. They are the building blocks of life, working like Lego bricks that build up into the proteins that help cells function and give our bodies their shape, structure and strength.
We need to get some amino acids through protein in our diet – for example meat and dairy are rich sources of amino acids – but others can be made by our cells including 2 amino acids called serine and glycine.
Healthy cells use a series of chemical reactions in small ‘batteries’ called mitochondria to make the energy they need to function. “If they are running short of serine and glycine, cells can divert molecules from energy production and use them to make these amino acids,” says Maddocks.
And this is where it gets interesting when it comes to cancer cells.
Back in the 50s a scientist called Otto Warburg first noticed that cancer cells use a different chemical process to turn fuel into energy than normal cells. This re-wired metabolism was named after him: the Warburg Effect.
Cancer cells have higher demands for nutrients and are less adaptable than normal cells when facing nutrient starvation.
– Dr Oliver Maddocks
“Cancer cells frequently re-wire their metabolism to support their rapid growth,” says Maddocks.
The Warburg Effect is where cancer cells bypass the specialist mitochondria that normal cells use to generate energy, meaning they produce energy less efficiently, but much more rapidly. But it comes at a cost.
“Their re-wired metabolism often means that cancer cells have higher demands for nutrients and are less adaptable than normal cells when facing nutrient starvation,” says Maddocks.
This vulnerability sparked an idea. The researchers wanted to try and exploit this weakness and starve cancer cells by cutting off the supply of serine and glycine from the diet.
“Four years ago we had our first glimpse that this approach to starve tumours might work. We simply removed serine and glycine from the food we gave mice with tumours, and the tumours grew more slowly than those in mice fed a control diet,” says Vousden.
“We were surprised that diet alone could have such a clear effect. And so we’ve taken the research to the next step.”
Can diet alone slow cancer growth?
This time the team studied mice with faulty genes that develop cancers in a similar way to people.
“We studied one group of mice that are genetically predisposed to develop bowel cancer, and another group predisposed to lymphoma,” says Maddocks. “We introduced the diet after tumours had begun to grow, and we saw the same results as before – mice on a diet lacking serine and glycine survived longer.”
“Even if we used the special diet on mice with more advanced tumours there was still a positive effect,” he says. “And this more closely mimics treating people with cancer.”
Their experiments suggest that starving the cancer cells is more effective when the cells are under something called ‘oxidative stress’, which is caused by an imbalance of molecules called reactive oxygen species (ROS).
It’s a really exciting time for cancer metabolism. Interest in the field has re-ignited, and we’re seeing some exciting potential treatments.
– Professor Karen Vousden
These molecules are produced naturally in cells and are vital for our health; they are needed for a healthy immune system and help cells communicate with each other. But too many can cause damage within cells and lead to cell death.
“Many cancer treatments, including chemotherapy and radiotherapy, lead to a big increase in the levels of reactive oxygen species,” says Vousden. “So we wanted to find out if starving cancer cells of serine and glycine would be more effective if we put cancer cells under oxidative stress.”
Using mice that were genetically engineered to develop lymphoma and were missing a protein that lowers ROS in cells, the researchers showed that the serine and glycine free diet had an even bigger impact on survival.
But it’s not all good news. The team found that a faulty gene that is frequently found in several types of cancer, including pancreatic cancer, can overcome the effect of the diet, suggesting that not all cancers would be susceptible to diet treatment.
“The faulty version of the KRAS gene helps cancer cells make their own serine and glycine, and overcome the effects of taking them out of the diet, but this knowledge could help us select which type of tumours to treat,” says Vousden.
Don’t try this at home
These are promising early findings from the lab, but the researchers are quick to emphasise that their research has a long way to go.
It certainly isn’t grounds for altering normal diet.
“We’re interested in this as a possible treatment. A special, carefully formulated diet replacement to give cancer patients for short periods while they are having other forms of therapy, like chemotherapy or radiotherapy,” says Maddocks.
“Like any new treatment, the next step would be a clinical trial to see if a special diet is safe for patients and if it does have any benefit for people. This would be carried out by doctors and nutritionists in the clinic, where patients could be carefully monitored to make sure they are getting all the other nutrients they need and weren’t being harmed by the diet.”
Our diet is complex and it’s impossible to cut out serine and glycine without excluding other amino acids vital to our health too, so there is no way to do this safely with a DIY home-made diet plan.
The other potential avenue researchers are exploring is finding drugs that mop up serine and glycine from our bodies, starving the cells in the same way but without needing a special diet.
“It’s a really exciting time for cancer metabolism,” says Vousden. “Interest in the field has re-ignited, and we’re seeing some exciting potential treatments. Now we want to take these ideas forward and see if they could help patients.”
Emma
Reference
Maddocks, O., et al. (2017). Modulating the therapeutic response of tumours to dietary serine and glycine starvation Nature, 544 (7650), 372-376 DOI: 10.1038/nature22056
Curious how you think she was cured. Do you think the treatments she had cured her? Have you read the book by any chance?
It is important to point out that Jane's cancer weapons did also include conventional treatments such as radiotherapy and chemotherapy, which she had in 1994. Doctors gave her another dose of chemotherapy drugs in 1999.
In addition, she was enrolled in trials for a new therapy called dendritic cell vaccine that stimulates the immune system to attack tumours, which she took in 2000.
She consumed an extensive list of supplements, including intravenous Vitamin C, and radically changed her diet
Your cancer is faster growing and will feed before your healthy cells do. It will adapt to feed on any nutrient available.
Be careful of taking supplements before your PSA test:
pcnrv.blogspot.com/2019/04/...
Any ideas how to block different pathways feeding this guy....he is like a terrorist grown out and among us....our own deviation...he is part of us..
We have to attack him from all sides at the same time...not one at a time...
Can we together propose a sound protocol which our docs are ignorant of ...
These docs r so busy with 20 min consulting...they have no time for thinking..
I would be happier with robot docs to whom all new knowledge may be fed...
So let our group of PC work together come up with workable cocktail....
We need initiative like AIDS guys to defy the protective sterile approach of docs..
Yes we can do it...like Jane did in an empirical way...
We dont need stupid clinical studies but an intelligent way of attacking our home grown terrorist..
There is no "all sides." The cancer has evolution on its side - infinitely and rapidly adaptive. There are always more pathways. Without a "stupid" clinical trial, how would you know if anything worked? Reasoning doesn't explain biology, without empirical evidence. Most researchers I know are working very hard at it.
However if we had a huge database of people with prostate cancer including all symptoms, medication used and responses it would be an invaluable tool for data mining different treatments. This would allow us to home in on treatments and treatment combinations that work or seem to work. This could be followed up by clinical trials. This is in essence what institution do in our everyday lives to target us for products. It appears that some trials are based on anecdotal or limited evidence. I’ve no doubt different databases exists in different organizations but what we need is to combine them all together. It would be a major project but the benefits could be massive.
Hi JP! Shortly after my hubby was dx it was recommended that he have genomic testing done. He was advanced stage at dx (44 years old, PSA 718, extensive mets to lymph nodes and bones). MO (Cleveland Clinic Taussig Center) got him in with testing through Tempus. They analyze the bx sample and compare with others with similar biomarkers and tie the results into tx recommendations and clinical trials. Very interesting and beneficial. It has been a wealth of knowledge to us. For example, Mike carries BRCA2 gene and the Parb inhibitor Lynparza was recommended as a tx choice. Just an example of some of this work that is already happening in the area of cancer research.
Nikki
I think in some countries what you are proposing is most likely already possible because of their centralized health care system. And if we see any such analyses in the near future they will be from these countries. In the US, the electronic medical record push started under the Obama administration is supposed to be a beginning of this type of database. There are issues of patient privacy but these could be overcome as there are ways to strip the personal info without stripping too much of the relevant data. But not all medical providers have adopted this so far, and there are multiple types of medical record systems so combining data is not trivial. So at best I think only large medical institutions have the databases to data mine but I have not seen any articles describing such analyses for cancer. But "data science" is very popular right now and so I am pretty sure that there are people working on these problems for their PhD theses.
Johns Hopkins is accumulating a data base from its patients. Started in 2014. I update annually.
There already are large databases used for data mining- single institution, NCDB, CAPSURE, SEER/MEDICARE
what they do with it....
"It appears that some trials are based on anecdotal or limited evidence."
...That's why they call it a "trial". There ARE large databases related to every aspect of cancer research. Tall Allen listed some of the biggest, but there are more. I don't disagree that there are problems related to interoperability of EHRs, and that will have to be continually addressed.
Clinical trials are too long...outdated technique of placebo and others...
We can go faster with genome data and knowledge of cancer pathways...at present there are mainly about 12 pathways...
Look when Genome project start....many thought impossible
Now it is routine...
We have to use hi tech and
Artificial intelligence...all the way...
Most docs cant follow the progress...too outdated too busy consulting...
They will become irrelevant.....
Only elite researchers
Linked with IA and big data will be the motors...
We have to bring IA in our consulting.
Already our forum is doing great job...
Let us go beyond old
Scorch earth approach
Too middle age...
I guess you are still on your metaphysical level. Most clinical trials are not long enough. They often already collect genomic data when it is relevant.
I agree with TA that most trials are not long enough and have limited numbers of subjects/patients. Just an example if you have an adverse event that only occurs in 1 in a 100,000 but the trial only includes 20,000 patients you won’t see that adverse event until the drug is marketed and available to the broader population. My point is there has to be a balance between numbers and time in clinical trials and getting a drug/treatment to the larger patient population with reasonable efficacy and safety to the patients at large.
Here is an example of what AI can do from published research: iflscience.com/technology/a...
😂😂 ....infinitely and (rapidly) adaptive.... and with this latest "scientific" statement Cantor just jumped in his tomb.
Almost exactly what I have told people. I very seriously doubt that JM has managed to find out every single pathway that cancer can possibly take. And if she did, I imagine that starving cancer would also starve us.
I do think that some of the diets and drugs might help with my prognosis and are at least beneficial for other potential health issues. Metformin, statins (or red yeast rice - dropped my cholesterol far lower than it has been since I first measured it as a teenager), sulforaphane, pomegranate, perhaps green tea and some others. But others are very lacking in any kind of credible data and IMO it is a disservice to promote them.
Pomegranate and EGCG have been ruled out in randomized clinical trials.
Always objective as ever free from wishful mindset...thanks ..for invaluable caring of us all
It's very difficult to prove a negative. Particularly for every possible input set. Every possible dosing scheme and combination? Realistically close to zero chance that something will be conclusively proven.I find pubmed data valuable. A wider range of inputs and outputs. I blend it with RCTs when I can and weigh the RCT findings higher.
Interesting article on RCTs: blogs.lse.ac.uk/businessrev...
I agree with some but not all of it.
In RCT how a treatment is validated as compared to control group....Means treatment is better than control group....
say 100 in each group...
50 in CG favorable and 70 in treatment group....
Then what about 30 not favorable etc....forgotten in no man hand
That is where individual observation comes into play....
It is as important as any RCT results...
Prostate cancer is so heterogeneous and no RCT can cover each individual..
RCT is one of the guiding lines...too bad whole medical corps blindly follows the one fit all protocol disregard for each human being ....too afraid of lawsuits...
This forum plays a complementary role to limited RCT...
Nothing against RCT but know well its limits...do not put it in gold standard...
Thanks to all participants
RCTs are the highest level of evidence. But they do have to be well done (see "GRADE"). In medicine, if there is no signal of effect in smaller yet sufficiently powered Phase 2 RCTs, they do not move onto Phase 3 (larger) RCTs. One can look at "levels of evidence" as a stairstep, eliminating possibilities as we climb the stairs. Pomegranate and EGCG have been proven not to have any clinical effect on PCa in Phase 2 RCTs:
nature.com/articles/pcan201532
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
Thanks for the studies. I looked at the p values and pomegranate juice has a decent chance of being effective to increase PSADT. Not conclusive since the control group had a p-value of greater than 0.05 but still trending. And I want to do what I can.
I like the taste of pomegranates and juice and they are healthy overall (beats a big gulp!). So will continue drinking pomegranate juice and eating the seeds.
I haven't dived into the EGCG study yet.
Note: a p-value less than 0.05 still doesn't completely rule out a random result. I'm not sure why it was set as a stake in the sand. Kinda wish I still worked at my old company; we had two highly skilled statisticians who were paid well to teach statistics classes and weigh in on our statistical requirements (medical company for implantable devices so, as you can imagine the verification requirements were quite high - almost as high as the military).
You seem to be misunderstanding statistics. If you read the JH study of PSADT you can see why ONLY the difference in PSADT can be used (Figure 2). Your mis-analysis takes a backward step to the non-controlled trials.
Actually, I minored in math and statistics in my upper grad degree. 4.0 at a 75,000 student university. Only one other person had a 4.0. A large part of my 30-year career heavily involved statistics and I wrote more than one book about statistics and verification and taught classes to other medical and space engineers on this and related subjects. I'm probably 12 sigma out when it comes to statistics. I didn't solely focus on stats because I had other skills that were more useful to my employers.
I rarely do this kind of self-aggrandizing but the reason I talk about this is to let you know that I am pretty well versed in statistics and what they really mean (hint, a good statistician can tell whatever story they want and I was good so know some of the tricks and therefore try to read between the lines of studies and trials).
You completely misspoke when you said that I seem to be misunderstanding statistics. What part? Do you think I should go back to school (I didn't finish my PhD because I was recruited into the workforce and money was hard to pass up as a struggling 26-year-old)? Lol!
Lesson: ask first, shoot later.
In spite of your credentials, you misunderstood, as I spelled out.
All I can do is ask again, what part? I'm not perfect and there are others who know more than me about statistics.
So I am seriously all ears.
Re-read what I wrote - I explained there.
I assume you mean that I should rely on an author from Johns Hopkins to interpret stats for me. I provided enough logic to convince even a Kakapo. Sigh. Yes, you may now have the last word again.
Lesson to self: do not argue with a stone and do not expect a coherent answer to a question, they are even stupider than a Kakapo.
I am talking about this:
"These data suggest that calculated PSADT in BRPC may naturally increase over time in the absence of therapy and may be influenced by duration of PSA follow-up. As a result, single arm trials could show false significant increases despite the lack of active treatment of these patients. Placebo-controlled RCTs including clinical endpoints are recommended to screen novel agents in men with BRPC to mitigate bias because of natural PSADT variability."
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
You were doing exactly what they caution against. Do you know better than their researchers? I doubt it. Note to self - do not read RSH's statistics book.
The first study of pomegranate that the same group at UCLA did only included PSADT and no control group. You are taking a giant step backwards by ignoring a randomized controlled study.
No need to be insulting. If you have something useful to say about the issue, I'm interested. Not interested in your ad hominem attacks that only show that you have nothing intelligent to add.
After some decades these medical researchers may think alike engineers and find a simple solution to the problem. Hint: The highest quality analog instrumentation differential amplifiers are chopper stabilized against drift. What about chopping the supplimentation (on and off periods) and calculating the interim PSADTs. When there is will a way will be found.
Scientists or researchersI am among them...
but transcending all a living being
We have a. very narrow minded thought frame..
Controlled by conditioned mind...everything has limits
laws...believing all is controlled by laws..
who makes those laws
human limited mind
Then statistics...
I am a human being with emotional and spiritual values to include power of prayer...
and not a number and neither a connected object..
If I do not fall into 60 % or so success...then where am I...
Just forget in name of numbers...
Sure to me then it is 100 % fail
In this forum we are not numbers...we are all human
Each of us has our own history
and journey...no one fit all path
Same symptoms. but very different journeys...
Good QOL pains, depressions
Dante hell right here...
why such different states...
no science will answer..
and we share with compassion...
Who knows...all this...
no body except my own Self
or if I wish...God knows all
then all becomes simple
Let us live joyfully and laugh at diversity of opinions
Truth is a fake concept..
objective or subjective
I prefer subjective look..thru human vision...limitless eternal..lovable..beyond laws
There is a Facebook group dealing with just that where you can also find a "prostate cancer" metro map : m.facebook.com/groups/50197...
My husband is on:
Metformin 1500mg,
Berberine 1000 mg, aspirin 100mg, dipyridamole 70mg, doxycycline 100 mg (1 month on/ 1 month off), mebendazole 200mg (1 week of 3) , luteolin, curcuma, hydroxychloroquine 200mg, atorvastatin tin 40 mg.
Some issues with nausea (Metformin, slow release also) and headaches (dipyridamole 200mg too much for him), BUT PSA down 18% .
Metformin seems to be quite effective.
It is hit and try...
May be together we can arrive at a cocktail to handle our son gone rogue
Thanks
How long has your husband been on his protocol? I began about a month ago. I’m not taking the hydroxyquinone, otherwise, it’s similar though. I’m doing IVC 2x a week as well(my insurance won’t cover it, they would be happy to pay for a med at $12,000 a month, not $200 a pop for this. We’ll see how long I can afford it). My MO said that he has another patient “just like me” who’s PSA has gone down byhalf and he was using IVC.
Interesting to know about IVC since he did not do IVC and on its own it does not work for prostate cancer (at least not in studies).
Difficult to say when he began since he was already on statin, aspirin.
But following Mclelland plus other supplements more since one month.
For him metformin 500mg did no work (PSA increased), but between 1000-1500mg already did decline PSA (18%). He would take more but nausea and weight loss issues.
He is Gleason 9 and already advanced and did not do any conventional treatment till now (also because of CVD issues).
Was the other patient only on IVC or the whole McLelland protocol? And was he on other treatments (ADT, radiation, operation)?
We also ordered Dukoral vaccine to add to the protocol.
I will find additional info when I talk again to MO. This may not be until mid September(next appt).
My understanding is that IVC does have systemic effect on any cancer cells in the bloodstream. Perhaps if cancer is in process of metastasis then PSA could be lowered in response to IVC. One aspect of it’s effect is creation of hydrogen peroxide environment that normal cells tolerate while cancer cells generally lack a necessary enzyme for survival. This only one aspect. I will try to find the link- computer went down last week- some researchers in England tested IVC with doxycycline, azythromycin, against pca. By itself the c had good effect, delivered simultaneously, it was greatly amplified. Sorry, can’t recall if it was in vitro or mouse model.
I know the vaccine has helped some people. Hope it works for your husband too. I would like to know what you find.
I’m Gleason 9 also. No detectable spread. A large mass though on the periphery and to the apex with extracapsular extension. Going with surgery or radiation at this point versus pursuing systemic metabolic approach seems like flipping a coin in terms of possible micro metastases and what surgeons tell me is 80% likelihood of impotence. Other downsides radiologists and surgeons prefer not to emphasize.
How is your PSA ? Did you think of ADT?
contact care oncology guys who go along Mclelland road...
we have to chose what is suitable for PC....It likes fat...so statin and also dipyridamole or aspirin or ibrufin
Please give me the references for "the IVC tests that it did not work". I (and many others that use it) know it works (it helps, but is not a cure), and we need to trample on skulduggery that hides this truth. It you used it, you could probably cut that big list of poisons down somewhat!
riordanclinic.org/2017/08/n...
You may have look...very rudimentary
The conclusion from Nordanclinic ...
"the data, demonstrated the clinical benefit of IVC for prostate cancer patients."
That hardly looks like "it did not work"?
Hi David- It may be this article Myriammole is thinking of: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
IV vitamin C shuts down glycolysis, which may be helpful for other cancers that are glycolytic. Prostate cancer is unique in that it uses oxphos for energy, and vitamin C could push metabolism that way. However, along with doxycycline, which shuts down the mitochondria (oxphos) and other metabolic blockers, IVC may be useful.
It was in Jane's book, where she says that because Pca uses glycosis the least, it is no surprise the study failed to show any benefit. BUT: it was only once a week, so low dose (60g)
There have been a lot of "red herrings" to divert attention from the main theme - IVC is the best Pca killer around by far. The whole cancer scene is blurred because "BS baffles brains" with paper after baffling paper as people do their Doctorate research (and you never hear of their `finds' again). This forum is full of people trying to work through loads of irrelevant guff. The bottom line is we are all different, and you have to keep experimenting to see what works. Most people, and doctors, will poo-poo Vit C drips unless they see the numbers for themselves.
I have used just 25 grams a week (with 1 Xtandi capsule) to be very effective. 60gms is getting into the 70 to 100 gm area used by Oncologists who add Vit C drips to their treatment. More of course is more effective, but gets expensive too.
There is a very simple way to see if the Vit C via IV works for a Pca victim. You have your answer in a week. You cannot cheat the PSA numbers!
Step 1 - Get a PSA reading before the IV if it is not steady. A
Step 2 - Get a PSA reading on the day after the IV (if you can afford it). B
Step 3 - Get a PSA reading 2 or 3 days after the IV. C
Step 4 - Get a PSA reading 5 or 6 days after the IV
Here is what you should see (the maths example is rough to keep it simple) :
The B value should show an increase in the PSA value e.g. if A was 10, and B was 13, then you got better than a 30% kill. A B value the same as A is not a good result.
If the C value is below the A value you got a very good kill, but if it is the same, you are actually winning - which you can confirm by doing another PSA after 5 days. D
EXPLANATION: The Vit C IV will kill and unknown number of cancer cells, and you want this to become a known number. The Vit C only hangs around in the blood for a few hours, and its killing effect is over. The next phase can be extra painful (a very good sign) as this is inflammation caused by all the dead cell corpses that need to be removed - a process that peaks after 12-18 hours and will take days. Even more important, the PCA number is HOW MANY ARE BEING KILLED , not how much cancer is there (one of the biggest fallacies out there). That is why B should be bigger than A.
The C number will not show the percentage directly, because the PSA marker has a a half-life of 2 and a half days. In our example, we have a residual "7" that were not killed, and "6" that are declining (3 after 2.5 days, half again 1.25 after 5 days). If C was 10 (the same as A ... 7+3=10!), then you may think this all failed. But another couple of days later (D), you then have 7+ 1.25 = 8.25. A few days after that, the figure may finally settle around 7 (if the remaining ones are slow growing).
There is thus vast scope to "test" IVC and find it does not work! I test every 4 weeks 3 days after a drip, and compare the numbers that way - but I did the earlier tests and got a shock to find an increase!
In practice, you need to find the "base growth" - no IV treatment between 2 PSA tests. Then a simple daily percentage is the answer. e.g. if the PSA doubles every 14 days, you are looking at 7% a day compound growth. That's my base number - and I would be dead long ago without the IVC's.
It is possible to starve the cancer, but the side effect is devastating!
Not true...our doc are hitting dead with greed
Do they have time to listen to me...
Read journey of Jane...
But he is me ...why I became a terrorist
I did not find a single doc who is ready to listen and have time...i went for biopsy and he was consulting running like a mad dog coming for biopsy and rushing out..
A shame to these rotten guys...
Let us express...
The nurse thought these guys are sick...
I would like to know from my PC family what is their body language with inhuman docs
Nalakra ji
Let us make a PC group
In the spirit of Jane....
Read her journey single handed but ready to meet face to face cancer cell
No bull shit.....
Our medicine system stinks
Money money money...
There is something wrong with doc profession...
We have to come in..
You should not blame docs only...its the entire healthcare system...docs are just one little puppet in the entire game ..fearful of lawyers, threatened by insurance companies not paying them and hospitals demanding a lot....there only fault is that choose to drive 100 thousand dollar cars and have 2 million dollar mortgage...and that ensures that they have no choice but to stay slave of the sick system.
Please find the page where Jane wrote " It could be the vaccine therapy I got, that helped halting the growth of the cancer"
Also please remember that each of us has a completely different PCa, and the results of any treatment will be of different outcome!
Try intermittent fasting, and exercise. I believe that the only promising future treatment will be through the immediate system (immunotherapy).
Taking suppliments can help keep the cancer local, and also Nitokinase with aspirin to minimise the ability of the cancer cells from hiding inside clots of platelets or fibrins.
IMHO, cancer is anything but suicidal, it fights on and on and usually never gives up until the person with cancer dies, thus depriving the cancer of blood and whatever it needs to grow. I cannot see how cancer makes any judgement on any day, but I can see that even it if it did have consciousness it has no intention to kill the person it is in. There's no Judgement Day, that's just a fairy tale to scare us all into being better ppl.
My sister appears to have got remission from her breast cancer after double mastectomy and chemo, so sometimes cancer can be beaten, no doubt about this.
There are many men who would never want to post anything here after getting an apparent remission from Pca after having a "successful" RP where the Psa
nose dives to 0.000 and stays there because there is not any prostate gland tissue or Pca left behind after the RP. Some men are just that lucky. What we have at this group are the men for whom a lucky outcome just didn't happen, many were diagnosed too late, or the RP did not get all Pca or left some PG tissue behind which later became cancerous, or they had some Pca mets at
time of RP, even though a very tiny undetectable amount.
From little things, big things grow. Pca is growth of normal PG cells without the control mechanisms that prevent uncontrolled growth. How does the body make sure you don't grow an extra arm or a nose? there are regulator cells, so something keeps most cells under strict orders not to make 3 arms and not to make 2 noses. ( But a few blokes seem to have 3 arsoles judging by the number of silly shitty ideas they come up with -
The exact control mechanism chemistry is a supremely complex Miss Terry.
And when this control breaks down, our immune system does not always recognise that there's a bunch of Pca cells that have become rogues and rebels, and setting up colonies all over the body landscape.
Why doesn't nose DNA molecules start growing on your foot? Anyway, control mechanisms are never perfect.
There is a good probability that our species will grow more numerous, and so much so that all other species are eliminated and we mutate ourselves to exist as the only species apart from what food we grow in huge barns. Maybe we may have a big atomic war, and then all mammal life on Earth ceases.
The surviving life forms might repeat the whole experiment and this could be a cycle repeated many times until the Sun grows larger and hotter as its nuclear fuel runs out in millions of years time. So why does existence exist? Some complex systems can grow more complex, then have trouble staying alive, and they get faulty, and die.
Well, we are a complex system that discovered how to develop enough nuclear bombs to kill all life several times over. It could be thus argued that we are supremely stupid. Cancer is bright by comparison and never seems to have invented weapons to take itself out. Cancer is often clever to mutate around all sent to kill it. But just not always. The whole truth about cancer is always obscured. Docs are working on this.
Meanwhile the witch doctors continue to take money from fools who believe in witchcraft. And without intending to upset anyone, I might say prayer is highly unlikely to have ZERO effect on anyone's cancer. Prayer is unlikely to get all the national leaders on Earth to agree to melt down the atom bombs and maybe make ploughs to grow more food and also educate more ppl to free them from the scourge of ignorance, hatred, fear, greed.
Patrick Turner.
Hi Patrick!
I've pushed back wearing "clipless bike shoes" for now, the brain is not focusing well at the moment.
Anyway, Violence, Destruction and Cessation are attributes of existence, as we understand the universe and everything in it.
Regarding cancer, will be great if we could breakthrough research silos and evolve discoveries like what's been happening in biology for the last billion of years...
I agree entirely. Hoo Noze when I might treddle a pedal again.
Before 2008, I used toe straps and cleats, but then I could not get any more replacement cleats or shoes, so I switched to new shoes and clipless pedals, and got used to them in 10 minutes. They always come undone if you fall off. I never once had a foot come off a pedal in last 100,000 km.
Have a great weekend everyone,
Patrick Turner.
Cancer cell is home grown terrorist....we have to figure out the real cause why a good citizen cell becomes terrorist.
So far the treatment is of Scorched Earth type...
To kill a terrorist kill all citizens who feed him...
Let us change this mind set
Of treatments..
Jane stood up and tested integrative approach to say no to scorched earth barbaric approach...
Yes..there is another way...
Use all existing ancient tools along with new ones
PLEASE NO FINANCE GUYS
STAY AWAY FROM US...
CREATION DOES NOT NEED MONEY....
Understand the feeding paths of this terrorist..sure he uses same paths as good citizens....so we know it well....we are feeding him
=====
And Jane went into the skin of this terrorist and faced him single handed with very intelligent trial and error cocktail coupled with new treatments..
Sure not everybody has the will power to confront this terrorist....but she did it
I ASK OUR PC FAMILY TO WORK ON PC COCKTAIL A LA JANE AND WE SHALL SUCCEED.....
Hi Karmaji-
Here is a link to an article that outlines the changes in cell metabolism in prostate cancer.
The Metabolic Phenotype of Prostate Cancer
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
Cancer has metabolic aberations, which is what people like Jane are trying to take advantage of. In general, cancer cells have less ability to defend themselves against oxidative stress, they have altered enzyme expressions, they have increased metabolism and will often succumb to "starvation" quicker than a normal cell because of increased metabolic needs. Unlike most cancers, prostate cancer prefers fat, only in later stages does it become highly glycolytic. I believe this approach is promising and may help people to keep cancer growth at a low level, possibly for many years. We don't have a lot of clinical studies yet, but Care Oncology just released their data on using a drug cocktail (metformin, statin, doxycycline, mebendozole) for glioblastoma, showing a doubling of survial time: frontiersin.org/articles/10.... For many of these inexpensive, generic drugs with a high safety profile, I say 'why not'? Just stay safe, check interactions and work with a doctor if possible. Care Oncology actually provides consultations and will prescribe the meds in their regimen if appropriate: careoncology.com/. All of their doctors are oncologists.
Excellent information...
Thanks....
We need many pathways to attack PC....nothing should be put aside...cocktail of generic drugs coupled with recent molecules....
But to find urologist listening...not easy...
Same goes for cancerologist
May be we can make a list progressive docs who are ready to helps....even online
Let us make a data base for sharing ....with help of new generation docs linked with
AI and data...
What a rich discussion this has generated! I appreciate all of the sincere viewpoints, recognizing the motivation each as sincere affirmation of life. Oncology docs are heroic in choosing to take on this career path that is certain to provide many failures and suffering that they must share on a daily basis. Some are great hearts with great minds. Some are just human with their own limitations. But they should be recognized for choosing to take on the battle against cancer instead of some other easier path as a doctor.
Life goes on in ever new ways.
well said
My recommend cocktail, 3 ozs of gin, splash of dry vermouth, over ice, lightly shaken or stirred then pour and drink slowly. Relaxation and peace will follow. Dosage 1 if going out, 2, if needed or not , and staying home.🤪
but cancer cell is me also...why me becomes rebel....
In Budhist vision... all cells are lovable....
Why my loving son became terrorist....
may be there is genetics...of long past Karma
No god story... god is me and me is god....
The Scorched earth approach to our son Cancer cell will produce more terrorists...
The whole approach is screwed up with smell of money....
I pray to my god of Finance....which has no touch with life.....
let us go back to process of cell becoming cancer....because we created the mess
Janes makes some good points. Traditional western medicine has considered cancer to be composed primarily of fast dividing cells. Chemo has gone after these for decades with in some cases impressive long term success, ie; childhood leukemia. For other cancers results have been at best spotty to ineffective. Recent research supports the existence of slower growing cells unaffected by initial treatment. These cancer stem cells possess the ability to evolve in response to their local environment, shifting their metabolism, deny glucose, they can use glutamine, deny glutamine, they can consume fatty acids. Something to keep in mind is that these processes are biologically driven. There is no teleology at work. While cancer may have many metabolic options, they are not infinite. Also, while these are your cells and they eat what normal cells eat, they do do so with differences and these are significant. Take a look at both Jane’s book and then the continuing proliferation of research on sites like pubmed. Starving cancer is mainstream thinking.
In an interview on NPR after last years Nobel prizes for medicine were announced, one of the two scientists who had their work in cancer immunotherapy honored, observed that a few years ago after they realized the extent and speed of cancer’s ability to evolve, the research community was glum. Then they started focusing on possible opportunities this new knowledge opened up. Would a cancer’s evolution be random, or might it proceed down avenues that were predictable and it could be led into dead ends and trapped. This makes a good analogy for the metabolic approach. Unlike immunology, cancer metabolism already has a large knowledge base. Putting this together with the recent technology for screening effects of existing drugs is what takes cocktails like those used in the COC protocol beyond the anecdotal. Jane’s (and no doubt those of some on this site) insights were brilliant. To bring those into the mainstream for more development will take a larger systematic effort. I think we’re all part of this.
Janes has succeeded to make us look at Cancer with more Holistic approach away from big pharma and away from our trapped mind set of killing all to kill the terrorist......
will Janes stay as free electron or she will be sucked up by media as David Servan Screiber was trapped by his glory on Anti cancer ...book...He could not take time and just breathe...
Care Oncology guys are inspired by Janes Journey....
I hope these guys dont become freaks and go for fake approach to get few bucks in false hope....
best way to starve cancer is to die. then the cells cannot grow.
What would it take for YOU to write something like Jane’s book but specific to PCa? I am sure we would all crowd fund/contribute to this effort.
let us make a thread just on PC cocktail à la Jane....
do not need stink of money....keep it pure
Of course - understood and yes the landscape is constantly changing. But your insights/experience would be more relevant to PCa.
Anyway - we’ve learned so much from you already. And are very grateful.
he is my buddy and I keep him close
no sweat...
Just write your way of understanding the making of terrorist from good citizen....
and about scorched earth approach to eradicate him....
He comes back with a revenge....
Great! Looking forward to it!
I think Jane misses Dick....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Thursday 07/11/2019 8:31 PM DST
Lately there has been extreme activity in research area to find new treatments of advanced pCA. I heard that there are over 10000 clinical trials going on in the world. And these do not include work being done in traditional Chinese medicine and in Ayurvedic medicine. Govt of India has allotted millions of dollars first time for research on Ayurveda and other ancient systems of treatments.
So, the pressure on western big pharma is intensifying and that's why such fierce activity...one reason is that we are close to knowing some very basic info about the process of cancer and the fear is that what if some one comes and proves that an old, cheap medicine is as effective as their 10000 dollar a month pill. The other fear is that what if someone from eastern part of our world finds out a herb in Himalayan valley which delays progression for 10-15 years. The billion dollar a year profit gets in serious trouble.
But all this intensity in research is good. It reminds me of days of Phillip Morris in their last few years...they got intense about benefits of nicotine ...to buy time to change the company to a food company and to make Chinese addicted to their cigarettes.
One more thought, in year 1970s and 1980s, electric shock treatments for severe depression was a standard of care ..but as plethora of anti depression meds came out in last 2 decades, electric shock treatment has almost become obsolete. I predict that chemotherapy and radiation will meet the same fate in about 20 to 30 years and will be considered barbaric and outdated just like electric shock treatment. More targeted pill form meds will rule 2025 onwards.
I know this was posted a while ago. I have written you about specific recommend. thanks. Have you posted a (McLelland) style map listing supplements and foods that you've continued to use? Would greatly appreciate the information.
Thanks. Your regimen makes alot more sense. I am on Intermin ADT also and trying to use various based on studies, advice. So far liver is ok, cholesterol down, and glucose normal. Need to see an expert.
Communicated before the vacation a while ago. Is there an email or contact to send info and donate?
Of course. Apologies. I thought there was a web page. Looking for an email address or other way to communicate to forward my list.
ok thanks
STARVING CANCERI bought and read JM book twice(How to starve cancer)
I think any one with this disturbance( what I call cancer) should decide for themselves what is the best foods nutrients exercise Physician etc.
My husband has stage 4 prostate that has spread. He has been doing the protocol that his oncologist recommends: Lupron Prednisone airbiterone etc. sorry I cannot spell this
For him, some days are bad and others are better.
I do have him on curcumin berberine Milk thistle and natural cholesterol lowering herbs
I do believe No one should take advice from anyone without doing their own research, including foods nutrients and lifestyle parameters.
Although i have several degrees in Health and nutrition, none of them can or does help me more than trying things and listening to others that have and are dealing with cancer.
I myself am sad often, watching the man i love dealing with this. But I try to be positive.
This group helps me and i thank you for allowing me to vent.
Lrv
It is a strange journey....together and then all alone..... There is common space of protocols, diets, supplements....Then each person has his own karmic journey to face injuries of cancer cells...
But there is always a hope....protocols, diet, exercise, miracles, then ...
definitly worth the read and study. quite a deep dive on cancer.
How to take Calcium
VITAMIN D FIGHTS cancer - ‘slashes risk of cancer death by 13% -- Studies presented at the world’s biggest cancer summit
How I Plan To Survive Prostate Cancer
Found cancer by TURP
Does 1000mg daily Tumeric consumption mask prostate cancer by masking uPSA values and not slowing prostate cancer cells down?
