After a failed prostate surgery, and an unfounded lymph node surgery, the 'only' thing that I am doing now to keep my PC at bay is applying transdermal E2 gel. My last PSA was 0.0I2. I took this pic tonight in the gym. Sorry if it grosses some of you out; however, many guys are curious as to how badly this most potent form of the three majors estrogens has screwed my body up?
I hope this doesn't get me kicked off of the forum?
Yikes …. Talk’in about pictures you can’t unsee !!!! Yayahahahaya yayahahahaya. I dunno ronron , having the boobs is one thing, but playing with them in a mirror , especially without mood music and candles ….. well that’s something else …. Oh dear. Count yourself lucky you only need a training bra …. I need a D cup 55”. myself yayahahahaya yayahahahaya. Yours are hardly worth mentioning. 😂😂😂😂
Just say’in
❤️❤️❤️
Bro, I was listening to music on my iPod!
OH …ok then, that makes it alright . Some scented candles, dim the lights a little …. “ wait “ is that weird ???? naaaaaaaa. Yayahahahaya yayahahahaya. Not coming from me …at least yayahahahaya.
😁😁😁😁
Dimming the lights might be OK, but "scented candles" in the gym?
“ in a gym ? “ ….. yea I know, it’d make everyone else jealous … Hummmmmm, ……. Maybe you could just stuff one of those jasmine flavored automotive air fresheners ( like those that hang from a mirror ) … in your gym bag and “ they’d “ think it was the gym doing it.
Of course there is the old standard of getting one of those cherry scented car air fresheners and “ everyone “ would think it was one of the urnal odor fresheners and not pay any attention to it .
Just say’in
😂😂😂😂
Okay lost highway. “ boys don’t start your rambling around”! Physicality does not make us men. I’m shot at 60 my friend. You are amazing Ronron. Keep rolling! When the coast is clear we’re heading your way! ❤️
Not much there!! Lucky you Ron!! ☘️
"Not much" anywhere! Upstairs, downstairs, etc.
There are a couple lines of thought on adt weight. When I started adt , I put on about 80 pounds almost instantly ( interestingly a fixed weight that never changes ). Most guys here want to be lean and mean, Nalcrats, you …. many others. And frankly I’d rather be that way myself.
When I was DXed, I was losing about 17 lbs a week , body weight. In just a few weeks I went from geriatric plump to skinny -stressed looking. Now I weigh a fixed , rolly Polly, 312lbs.
Oddly , both my wifey - caregiver AND my oncologist… agree they like me heavier. The oncologist says I’ll live a few weeks longer if the wasting away starts again and it gives him more time to react to downturns as well. My wife , similarly, feels like having this extra weight will sustain me longer if I have another weight free fall.
Being able to “ hang on “ at the end …for a few more weeks in hospice … may or may not be a good thing tho, depending on circumstances. It’s all perspective doncha think ?
❤️❤️❤️
I have never been able to gain weight. I usually eat dinner (and dessert) around midnight before I hit the sack and still can't gain a pound.☹️
Seriously, compared to the 300+ pound NORTH of the Border MALE Snowbirds who insist on wearing a SPEEDO to the beach ---
youtube.com/watch?v=9x6oFcj...
Thank you kindly!
Hahaha😂👏👏👏🍀🍀🍀
I am the same . Better than belly fat and a heart attack ..I’m staying skinny .🕺
You look good and thanks, probably, to some great genetics too … looks like. Slim and trim , some muscle showing …. I just had a great Epiphany …. How about you , Nalcrats, Scott … probably shooter , maybe treedown ?? …. Get all you’se guys together and doing the new aPCa - healthunlocked swimsuit calendar. Yeeeeeeaaaaaall buddy, …. Make it with magnets so we can put it up on the fridge. What a great idea ….
Yayahahahaya yayahahahaya ❤️❤️❤️
Hey, what about me? I could make a good PC Mr December with my ket lean bod and new testosterone muscles. Beats old sarcopenia me.
Kewl … you can be Mr August … December is too close to the end , …..know what I mean ??? Yayahahahaya..
Thanks Kal...I thank the 'Big Guy' everyday that I'm still here!
I should probably submit a photo for the calendar. Unlike RonRon's pubescent showing, my boobs are a lot closer to Jamie Lee's in Trading Places...
However, I lack RonRon's courage, so you'll just have to use your imagination
Carlos,
You are 12 years younger than I am, and most likely far better looking! If there is anything about your appearance that you are not happy about, just Photoshop it out. 👍
Thanks, but I've seen your pics, don't think I'll ever be that dashing and handsome. I've started my makeover by photoshoping your hair on my head. Disheartening, I think I'll just keep the anglo Buddha look
Carlos...You are hilarious!🤣
Ewwwwwwwwwwww ….. hummmmm …. Is it possible to “ un see “ your imagination??? 😂😂😂😂
Just photoshop it
Yea .. yayahahahaya… that sounds right !!! 😂😂😂
I put on 45....doc told me same....
I hear ya buddy ….. I was pretty freaked out when I started losing all that weight so fast. I don’t really want to be heavy but there is something comforting about being able to last a bit longer. Lasting longer is what all of us are doing here.
You could be the anchorman! 😎✌️
I've seen bigger MOOBs at the local swimming pool-- you're fine Ron-- take the good QOL and excellent PSA and run with it.
I've seen much worse on normal guy's...keep fighting.....you have that star quality look!!!!😊
Ron, my friend! You are a handsome man! Others may joke about your breasts.. And I will say, God grant us all at your age to have a body like yours! And to win back from this ruthless disease at least four years of such a rich and wonderful life as you have with your faithful Thai woman! She has my separate respect! At your suggestion, I began gradually adding 177Lu and 225Ac estrogel to my remission after radioisotope treatment every night, gradually displacing Zoladex.. I feel great, which I wish to everyone who reads this! And God bless us all! Amen!
Rus,
Thank you ever so much for your kind and encouraging reply! Actually, Natalie and I have been together for over 17 years. I moved to Thailand shortly after I had my prostate ripped out in 2004.
By your superb command of the English language, I assume you were born and educated in an English speaking country, correct?
In what country were you military pilot? I did a considerable amount of flying when I lived in America; however, just as a private pilot. I had a couple of Beechcraft Bonanzas and a Piper Aerostar.
I'm happy to hear that you are doing well dealing with this all too common disease! I read all of your posts and wish you the very best in our battle. I'm looking forward to meeting you ASAP...here in Thailand.
Спокойной ночи,
Ron
Dear Ron, Thank you for your assessment of my English, but I have to disappoint you that I do not understand a word and do not speak English ..)) I was born, grew up and received all my education in Russia and I also served my country.. But I treat all Soldiers and especially pilots who serve their countries with due honor! I planted many trees, built several houses, raised two beautiful children and made about a hundred of my own students.. God gave me my beloved wife with whom I have lived for more than 35 years and I am the happiest person! I have many friends all over the world and I communicate with them in their native languages.. Japanese, Chinese, Thai, English, German, French.. - it's not a problem today when you can build your sentences correctly..?! A good browser translator can do everything else today!)) My daughter, she is 19 years old, was also born and graduated from school in Russia, but, unlike me, she speaks excellent English and loves Thailand very much.. I will take her with me as an interpreter when I go to visit you in Thailand!)) ราตรีสวัสดิ์เพื่อนเอ๋ย! และฉันหวังว่าจะได้พบคุณและนาตาลีของคุณเมื่อฉันอยู่ในประเทศไทยกับภรรยาของฉันทันย่า! พระเจ้าอวยพรเราทุกคน!
Dear Rus,
First of all, I don't believe one word of your statement: "I do not understand a word and do not speak English." It would be impossible to write as you do without being totally fluent in English! I am truly amazed that someone from a non-speaking English country has such great command of a foreign language. You are an icon in my eyes, and I would have loved to have been one of your "students"! I assume that you are also fluent in the other languages that you have mentioned. I am embarrassed to admit that I've been in Thailand for over 17 years and still have difficulty holding a conversation with Thai folks.
I am hoping to live long enough to have the pleasure of meeting you and your lovely family 'when' you make it to Thailand. I also want to thank you for the beautiful Thai message that you included in your reply...I had to have Natalie translate it for me. If your wife Tanya and your children are at all like you, they complete the 'perfect family'!
God bless all of you,
Your new friend Ron
I love flying too ronron ….. I’ve flown Huey’s and a Cessna for short periods in the military in the past. Right now I have an advanced Sim pit “ and I fly a Cessna 172 flight simulator exclusively. I’m also a federally licensed UAV ( unmanned aerial vehicle ) operator and own two phantom 4 pro … drones as well. FPV ( first person view ) flight in a quadcopter is pretty exciting stuff .
FAA registered drone pilot
Hmm... Brother K!! I don't whom is the most intelligent, mentally challenged, creative or just batshit crazy (Me or You?)!!
Might just be a toss up! 😂😂😂
Best,
AJ
ME ? Have you gone back and read all the replies to ronron’s great post ? This has got to be among the best posts ever … we’ve talked moobs before , but this one has gone ballistic yayahahahaya yayahahahaya. It’s everything you mentioned , above, and a lot more. We’re just rank amateurs in this expanse of replies . 😂😂😂😂
❤️❤️❤️
I wish I would have got in my "Ron you look great, no worries" reply 100 replies ago. Now I don't know what to add.My 1970's escapades in Pattaya Beach?
No kidding …. This has been a popular post …. lotsa fun and crazy posts … not much else can be said … pretty kewl.
❤️❤️❤️
Now you outdid yourself..... you were firing on all 8 cylinders. Congrats....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good humor.
j-o-h-n Saturday 03/19/2022 1:30 PM DST
Yep! You are right on target.😂
Hmm... I'm thinking of engaging in a bit of one up man-ship....
A photo of my shrunken genitals!😢
Yayahahahaya yayahahahaya …. And I was saying I couldn’t “ un see “ those moobs ….
That post would “ one up “ ..everything that’s transpired …so far …. Go ahead , do it … we’ll make bets on how long before Darryl kills it and makes you sit in the “ time out “ corner yayahahahaya OMG ….
😂😂😂😂😂😂🎼
Brother K ! I will write all sorts of crazy and off the wall stuff, just to make you laugh!
Yayahahahaya yayahahahaya …. back at ya🥂
Luv ya Bro!
Hey !! I was “ up “ ( impossible ) for it. Been in the big bathroom with the huge mirror …. Modeling mink fur lined tweezers, those corinthian leather pavé magnifying mirrors on a stand …. Some shiny skin warming makeup cream …. Etc. …getting ready for my modeling debut contribution to your post buddy ……. Yayahahahaya yayahahahaya. No shyness here “ big guy “ 😂😂😂😂😂
Of course us posting “ that “ photo lineup probably ( ??? ), no ….definitely crosses the line someplace. Poor Darryl would probably have fainted seeing “ that “ content on his group….. then quickly killed that post instantly and sent us to the “ time out “ corner for weeks yayahahahaya yayahahahaya. We’ll blame it on ronron …. Saying he got us started with his brazen sexy moobs photos ….. not to mention the great girly-guys. One taste and you’re hooked ….eh ??? Yayahahahaya yayahahahaya.
❤️❤️❤️
Not those fur lined tweezers again! I feel like I'm in a 1940's Burlesque Hall yikes.My incontinence clamp (you've seen before) works double duty might replace your fancy tweezers show off. Ha.
😜
Yayahahahaya I remember those ….. hummmmmm ….………. about the right size … but …. just not that soft plushy comfort of mink …. Fancy ones are gold plated and have that diamond or ruby rondel on the pointy end. I can’t afford those ..
Just say’in 😂😂😂😂
Is that the new 'Campbell' clamp? Appears to be far superior in size and design to the Cunningham clamp! Can they be purchased directly from Campbells, or are they available on Amazon?
If you aren’t being facetious … then I believe he once said those are “ dollhouse mini clothes pins “ …. Could be wrong. Search “ dollhouse mini clothes pins “ on Amazon to see zillions like that one.
I also wanted say that ..from ALL your pictures and posts …. that you appear to be a world traveled knowledgeable and “ experienced “ guy that is much like me in interests and tastes .. in a way that I find admirable. I’d bet , that in better times , we could have had a whole lot of fun together in Phuket - Patong , or Saigon …
Just say’in 😁😁😁
Incorrect. I don't "have those". Furthermore I have lost 20 pounds since since my Dx. It's all about exercise and pushing yourself away from the table.
I've put on a few pounds. 30 in the last 2 years, and my MB's are a bit larger and fuller than yours.. less time in the gym will do that....
I thought that you were talking “ meatloaf” type boobs from fight club . U R an A cup . No biggie! I’ve got you beat! I’m a c cup .
Ronron is in the gym everyday! 🏋🏽♂️He’s in the gym in this pic .
I got those boobs too….but I’m also still around to hang out with those I love. Small price to pay 😄
Sorry, not impressed... A-cup only, which means you are "flat" -- in the lingo of my teens!
It's interesting that overweight guys can also have man boobs, but true gynecomastia means no matter how fit and slim you get in the gym, the breasts remain... almost enough to make you want to get fat again to look "normal" (normal for an aging American male of the 21st century, anyway, lol.)
Hard to tell from the pic, but are you at least symmetrical? My right is an A, but my left borders on B. I don't mind the boobies, but I do wish they were even!
I never imagined myself being interested in a conversation like this, but 3.5 years of Lupron and 2.5 of low dose E2 put me in the club, probably an A, and I'll gladly go bigger to stay an active member. You're one my heroes, Ron. Lot heroes in this forum. - Will
Just missing your smile. Nothing else to be concerned about. The girly-boys will certainly not be jealous and your beautiful lady unfazed
Thank you Doc! Went back to review some of your previous, 'in depth scientific' posts and noticed that you are a retired physician. I figured that you had to have a chemistry background. Are you still using E2 patches, and if so, are they working for you? I absolutely love the gel (my 'only' PCa weapon)!
I keep my former profession on the down low here. I am here as just another guy with my own brand of APC and don’t want others to over rate my “outside the SOC” opinions and choices. When I did PATCH protocol E2 ADT previously I did not reach fully castrate T within a few weeks. So I added a shot of Firmagon to get there faster. I found I felt just fine on a conventional ADT as long as I had E2 on board, even with just one patch.
Now I am doing cyclic SPT, two plus months on high T then one month of ADT. So I need an approach with fast onset then does not linger too long. Will try Religolix but the copay is pretty high. Otherwise a big double shot of 240 mg of Firmagon every 3rd month. Still figuring it out.
Will anyone ever "figure it out"?My T numbers have been all over the board; however, my PSAs have been doing well.
T levels:
7/13/2017 - 455
6/19/2018 - 349
8/3/2018 - 106
10/30/2018 - 72
1/2019 - 55
8/10/2019 - 10
11/06/2019 - 91
2/11/2020 - 99
5/14/2020 - 25
2/16/2021 - 13
12/11/2021- 341 No one can figure this one out?
PSAs:
4/1/2018 - 0.71 [started using tE2 on 4/15/2018
6/19/2018 - 0.49
8/3/2018 - 0.19
10/30/2018 - 0.046
1/22/2019 - 0.076
4/23/2019 - 0.014
8/10/2019 - 0.004
11/06/2019 - 0.003
2/11/2020 - 0.012
5/14/2020 - 0.003
2/16/2021 - 0.003
12/11/2021 - 0.012
I get. Much variability but mostly low T. And excellent PSA levels. Love long with much joy adventure and love.
Well there's one exercise routine you can do in the gym that might help mask the condition. It is done with dumbbells and is called 'the fly'. Grab a couple of dumbbells, sit down on the bench and then lay down on your back. Arms out to the side, lift the weights up, repeat. Works to build up your pectorals so you won't appear as boobalicious.
Thank you...going to try them!
Got to rub it in that I'm older than you are! And yes, the big '79' (God willing) is next month. "Cheap Plastic Surgeon" for what? A boob reduction, implants, facial surgery, or entire body makeover? "2 hours in the gym" is impressive for an old buzzard!🤣
I have developed a magnificent pair too, so you are not alone, RonRon.
It’s not that bad! Stop….its your battle scars! Keep up with the gym!
Ronron, "You look Marvelous" youtube.com/watch?v=J0RTD72...
Where does one obtain the Gel state side?
Thank you ramp! Obtaining the gel in America is difficult. I think Amazon sold it at one time. If you have searched the Net and can't find it, PM and I can have my daughter send you some that I have exported to her.
Yep man boobs, just a fact of life , glad my wife doesn’t mind 🤣🤣🤣
Thanks for the words of wisdom Larry!
Thanks a lot, my wifes jealous after seeing your rack, off too see the plastic surgeon . You look marvelous darling, a LITTLE BOOBIE never hurt anyone.
Ron ron as long your are medically and spiritually good and this Te2 is not still not SOC yet … I WILL TAKE BOOBS FOR LONGEVITY.Your are doing what you need to do ….and now for it’s worth it’s working
Good luck as always
I think you look great and if I was single "I'd tap that!" Stay well! ❤️
Haha...Had I known that boobs on a guy was such a popular subject, I probably would have had implants, taken estrogens years ago, let my hair grow , and become a ladyboy dancing in a Thai go-go joint! Just a pic of one of my Thai 'buddies':
I think you look great Ron and no I'm not hitting on you:-). In your previous posts, man boobs were mentioned so often I thought it was an issue but I know many men who have never had cancer and are up to a C cup all on their own.
From day 1 my MD advised against masectomy to stop breast enlargment due to pain involved and I am happy now some 12 years later while on Lupron and Xtandi. At 80 I really don't care and at the gym and pool I see lots of old guys like me and they are happy.
Thank you Sir for your reply. I agree with you that at our ripe old age a little extra tissue on the chest is no big deal!
Wishing you 20 more happy years,
Ron
Thanks for the post. Yes, many of us were curious (but don't breathe a word of it!). Not bad, considering the alternative(s).
Oh come-on Nal! Bring the wives with you and Natalie will take them shopping while we 'shop'.😜
Lupron and Erleada have produced a close second to yours, look past it.
Not an issue! Looking good at 78...my age also.I still haven't found a doctor in the USA that will prescribe estradiol patches to offset some of the side effects of ADT. I even went to an Endocrinologist that couldn't throw me out the door fast enough. Go figure!
Good luck.
RonRon Thank you for sharing. Your post and subsequent replies have made me smile a good sense of humor helps as we battle on. You really look good!
About 25 years ago I was out jogging around Knoxville, TN on a hot humid summer night with no shirt on. I was in great shape, but some jackass drove by me and yelled out the window "Nice boobs!" So I guess it's all relative, and yours look pretty close to normal to me. If they start telling you to put on a sports bra, then it's time to be concerned. 😆
Hmm... Hey Ron!
Why do you refer to a bit of upper body sagging, naturally occurring as we age with concern?
Face it your not even close to competing with "Betty Boop".
As far as "I hope this doesn't get me kicked off of the forum?"
Here are the titles of a couple of my posts:
Hmm… This post may get me banned from this great forum, FOREVER!!
Hmm... Please feel free to vote to kick me out of the forum...
And I'm still here!!😂
Much to the dismay of about 98% of the members😢
Count me in!! " Darling Wife" hates to fly and I need a vacation (ABroad💃)
I wish I would have got in my "Ron you look great, no worries" reply 100 replies ago. Now I don't know what to add.My 1970's escapades in Pattaya Beach?
This is / was a great post ronron …. Very entertaining and great fun. You nailed it with this one. Perfect to take everyone’s minds off “ stuff “. We need more of this one the group. You da man big guy ….👏👏👏👏
Okay now that we finished talking about tits.... can we finally talk about nipples?
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Saturday 03/19/2022 12:34 PM DST
The "nipples" have ceased to be a problem!
My friend! I thought about the numbers.. According to statistics, about 20% of those who read this post leave comments under the post.. There are more than 100 comments under your post, which means about 500 people have read your post.. These 500 people always have at least one person who lives next to them.. In total, at least this is 1000 people to whom you gave a wonderful mood with your post, at least for one evening! But considering that I am writing this comment three days after you published your post, you have made me think about you and smile for three days already! I'll tell you how it was in my family.. I was sitting at the computer when I read your post and laughed out loud in a kind way.. My wife came up to me and asked what happened, I said my friend Ron was worried about his chest and showed her your picture.. She also smiled kindly and said that all other men should envy Ron.. Then she went to do her own business and called her daughter on Skype, then her son.. But she went to them with a good mood, which your post gave her, and I am sure that this positive charge that evening was transmitted through her and my children, who did not even see your post.. In general, thank you, Ron, for making us all a little happy! I think that in two days, having collected more than 100 comments under your post, you have earned a leader's T-shirt, with which you can finally cover your magnificent breasts ..))) Thank you!!!
Dear Rus,
Your replies alone have made posting this pic a worthwhile venture, and I'm certainly not discounting all of the other kind and humorous replies from the 'many great guys' that we have become friends with on this forum. Obviously PCA is not a cheerful subject, and if we can post anything that elicits even a teensy smile on someone's face, its was a rewarding gesture!
I'm thinking of having a T-shirt made that will cover my "magnificent breasts", and kinda recapitulate this diverting post.
I want to take this opportunity to thank all of our 'comrades' for their encouraging, complimentary, and humorous replies!
May God grant the world peace in the 'very' near future...luv all of you,
Ron
Morning Ron,
Thanks for giving the brotherhood members a glimpse of your perfectly maintained physique. Many of us far exceed the size of your Moobs without using dermal estrogen. You look great, and you’re a testimony to DIY ADT using tE2 gel when the American medical establishment has abandoned this cost effective and safe alternative to big Pharma’s monopoly of ADT drugs by falling victim to the threats of legal medical malpractice claims from the trial bar. You are a warrior for cost effective ADT. I wish you all good continued success.
Jeff
Dear Jeff,
A big THANKS for your too kind, and encouraging reply!
I owe my success with this non-SOC therapy to my mentor Richard Wassersug who answered a question that I posted four years ago regarding E2 gel. Richard suggested that I call him to discuss this unconventional therapy for advanced PCa. He spent two hours on the phone with me and has since become a great friend and advisor. Richard's early PCa history is similar to mine, and he is now celebrating over 20 years of undetectable PSAs using tE2 gel as his only form of ADT.
I originally came across the gel while having lunch with Natalie and a ladyboy 'GF' of her's. 'She' was going through 'her' purse and happened to pull out a tube of the gel to which I began inquiring about, and took a pic which I posted on this forum. The gel is available here, and I occassionally send some to my daughter which she can sell for about $25/tube.
My best to you my friend,
Ron
Ron, and looking at the numbers that you presented, I thought, what's the point of you tracking the dynamics of T if you don't directly suppress its development in any way..?! Perhaps it would be much more informative in your case to track a pair of Estradiol - PSA..?! Personally, I would now make a smooth transition by passing once or twice: T + Estradiol + PSA in order to compare a pair of T - Estradiol and only then switch to tracking only Estradiol + PSA! If there is a control point for the level of Estradiol in the past, then this is even better! The jump that you had on T is very significant.. And judging by the fact that the PSA has increased four times at the same time, this cannot be a mistake! I think it is necessary to analyze well what exactly has changed after your penultimate and last test! Maybe you changed the manufacturer of Oestrogel, bought it in another place, a different dosage when pressed, etc.? What changes occurred during this period in your diet? What medications or dietary supplements have you canceled or started taking, etc.? Did you say that Natalie started feeding you some herbal supplements..?! There are many foods, minerals and vitamins that can significantly increase the level of T.. For example, such elements include Zinc! In general, we need a qualitative analysis of the changes that have occurred during this period and we need to lower T. This is my humble opinion! And yes, if you often snuggle up to your Thai "buddies", as in the photo above, then your T can also hit you in the head..)))
Rus, I am suppressing the development of T with the application of tE2 gel. That is the way my T has been (mostly) in the castrate level. Since E2 is aromatized from T, flooding the bloodstream with E2 sends signals to the hypothalamus-pituitary glands in an attempt to maintain normal E2 levels via the negative feedback loop, also known as an inhibitory loop. The only way to normalize the E2 level is to suppress T (the bad guy). Perhaps I don't understand your reply completely?
I can't think of anything that has changed regarding my gel, usage, diet, supplements, lab, or "Thai buddy" encounters that could have caused this spike in T? I have had a couple of other blood test in the past that have given me some strange numbers. The following chart also includes my E2 levels.
I would love that, and I believe some of you wouldn't return to Bidenville!🤣
Nal, I know you were being facetious, but actually Natalie's are not much bigger than mine. That ladyboy with the newly purchased 'bolt-ons' is better looking than many of the Real McCoy's! Fortunately for me, Natalie is not on this site.😎
Curious if you’ve ever measured LH, FSH, and Prolactin with any of these blood draws? Or DHT or free testosterone?
Me too after a year of estrogen gels.
My only experience with the use of gels was with Testosterone. I discovered all sorts things that I haven't heard mentioned. The absorption is quite variable in my experience. For example absorption is affected by application site (for me, absorption was greatest in descending order: Chest/upper arms --> abdomen --> thighs).
Also affected by the vehicle used in the gel (different brand different absorption).
Also frequency of application and frequency of showering/bathing, also climate and whether the areas are covered. And also the level of physical activity.
I have not read anywhere about all these factors and importance of addressing them as much as possible. So it is really important to be aware of how all these factors can come into play treatment wise.
One needs to look at the bigger picture and not just one or two points and believe we are on top of this. And not to mention the uniqueness of each one of us with respect to individual metabolism and physiology. We are not all the same.
I always apply the gel to my abdomen and thighs. Richard Wassersug believes that applying it to the chest and upper arms can cause the boobs to grow faster.
Those lil b cups remind me of 5th grade girl in desk across from mine had a sun dress on ..my eyes ventured past the sleeveless fabric opening to behold a pert pubecent breast ...at that moment their was no question of wich way i was bent.....thanks for the reminder.....
So you were even 'bad' when you were in 5th grade...is that how you were coined 'Boywonder'?
Actually....at 12 years old i could take the dash out of a 69 lincoln.....gauge cluster and all......and put it back......my pops had a lincoln merc dealer ship...the older wrenches ...applied the name...it stuck.....and....to this day my bestest friends call me that....when i f up.....my how the world turns....
Hello, I'm new to this site
What is the chance of progression post castration surgery? 
Slow recovery from general anesthesia…PC/ADT related?
Update on Radiation Onocologist second opinion. Confused?
post prostatectomy psa
