To T or not to T?: Will soon have been... - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

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To T or not to T?

monte1111 profile image

Will soon have been doing this dance for 2 years. Lupron, Xgeva, 8 cycles taxotere, going on 17 months Xtandi with prednisone, celebrex, gabapentin. Have very annoying foot neuropathy. Other side effects from chemo, screwed up finger nails, loss of hair, later loss of both big toe nails ok now. Psa 0.2 for last 5 months. Original Psa 59.9 Extensive bone mets "now" subtle, lymph nodes "cleared up". Never had testosterone level checked although have blood test every month. Should MO be checking testosterone? Everyone else seems to be keeping track of theirs. Also, no mention of genetic tests, etc. Only "Provenge is in your future." Trying to get primary dr. to prescribe metformin and a statin. He won't bite on testosterone test. Says not needed. See MO in a week. Will ask her about testosterone test. So, am I getting less than Standard of Care? Or is the testosterone level just another number to make me anxious for no good reason? The lupron/xtandi will fail. What do I need to do to be proactive now? I think I need to become a squeaky wheel. I have a Kaiser Advantage Plan so may be limited in choices. Will be limited in choices. Any advice is welcome kind sirs.

62 Replies

If your PSA is that low and your mets have shrunk (which is great!), the Lupron is obviously working. If you can't get a testosterone test, I wouldn't sweat it. Unless you have some reason to suspect a genetic abnormality, there's no reason to go to the expense of genetic testing. The data on metformin and statins is weak - if you can get them, why not? Why are you taking prednisone? - it isn't required with Xtandi. "Proactive" planning is a myth - it causes less anxiety to just take it as it comes,

monte1111 profile image
monte1111 in reply to Tall_Allen

Unbelievable. All my questions answered in less than 10 minutes. Prescribed Xtandi. Then told I was getting Zytiga with prednisone. Reminded MO already prescribed Xtandi. Questioned prednisone and was told take to avoid side effects of Xtandi. I don't seem to have the huge side effects that some have, so should I ask to be weened off and see what happens? Many thanks to you Tall_Allen from Short_monte1111.

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply to monte1111

Are you just taking 5 mg/day of prednisone? It's given as a replacement dose with Zytiga, but this is the first time I've heard about it used with Xtandi. You might talk to him about seeing how you do without it. It's great stuff if you need it, but if you don't it can cause side effects.

monte1111 profile image
monte1111 in reply to Tall_Allen

5 mg 2 times a day. Questioned her at the time because of medication confusion re: was I going to be taking Xtandi or Zytiga but told go ahead and take it. Have noticed a few taking Xtandi and prednisone but they seem to be persons who are having a really hard time. That doesn't seem to be me. Will bring this subject up again next week now that I know more than I did 17 months ago thanks to malecare, you, Nalakrats and all of the others here. I've actually googled about, and picked up a flyer at Kaiser re mindfulness. Really thinking that may be better than this drug or that drug. Thank you so much for erasing a lot of back of the mind questions. Enjoy your evening.

As for the prednisone....the jury is out...there may be some pain relief from the anti-inflammatory benefits of steroids...see below:

Hi Monte1111,

I had 8 months on Zytiga after ADT injections failed. I had salvation IMRT to PG and 2 lymph nodes, and Cosadex for 6 months after mid 2016. Then I had Zytiga which shuts down parts of your adrenal gland to prevent it making a small amount of testosterone which the Lupron, Lucrin ADT cannot stop because these 2 chemicals just shut down your Testo made by testicles.

Zytiga also interferes with the cancer cells making their own di-hydro testosterone as they mutate with time, and learn to outwit the doctor's brews of this or that, touted to work real well, but they only work for awhile. Anyway, Zytiga prevents the adrenal gland making natural steroids which tend to stop inflamation and pain, so the 2 x 5mg prednisolone pills replace what the adrenal gland does not make. There is probably a pile of other things the Zytiga does and the description of all the chemistry would fill many pages of indecipherable medical jargon.

Scholarly articles online about Xtandi should tell you more about whether predi is needed or not.

If your Psa has been 0.2 for months, you are lucky and if a testosterone test was done you may find it is extremely low, maybe 1/50 of the normal level without ADT, and whatever testo is present is probably made mostly by adrenal gland. The only way the Psa can get that low is by ADT when it works fairly well, assuming no other treatment is involved.

I think you might find ADT will not work forever and Ztytiga and Xtandi and Cosadex will all stop working and Psa will rise, and I know many men where chemo at that stage did not work and in my case I had 5 x docatexal shots and Psa went from 12 to 45, with no sign of reducing.

So I switched to Lu177, and had the No 2 shot last Friday and have a few aches in bones while the Lu177 is busy at work in bone mets. Psa fell from 45 to 25 in month between chemo 5 and No 1 Lu177, then fell to 21 before No2 Lu177. I have countless bone mets, and action on bone mets is slow with Lu177 and I can't know what progress is until 4 weeks' time when I talk to doc after having PsMa scan to compare with last one just before Chemo 5. But at least Psa is not zooming up so fast that nothing can stop it, and this is what all men should fear because then its possible nothing can stop it ruining your QOL with pain in bones, and elsewhere in soft tissue organs.

I am not sure what benefit is to be gained by DNA analysis of Pca. Not many I know got any benefit and quite often there are so many mutations to Pca that no individual chemical can hold back Pca progress. I have an old Gleason 9 tumour at PG diagnosed in 2009 with low Psa of 6, and I should have had biospy in 2005, when I bet there was a Gleason 5 maybe, and an RP might have worked. I could not have RP because too much cancer surrounded the PG. But it had not spread to bladder or rectum.

It spread early to bones, but all of it remained suppressed with ADT for 6 years. So the Pca is now 14 years old, and hence many mutations would be present. Docetaxel did not do much, so I quit it for Lu177 which might work best on many mutations which still produce PsMa which is needed for Lu177 targeted nuclear systemic radiation to work.

I will probably secumb to Pca. I do not expect a cure, which my doc says everyone wants. Remission is extremely unlikely. I'll try whatever treatment becomes available, but sooner or later the combination of side effects and pain from the Pca and unexpected effects from Pca lesions might prevent further treatment and I have to hope the Fentanyl works well on my way out of life.

I have no idea how long I have, but I have had a very fine 10 years since diagnosis. I'm 71, and would have died by now if there was no Cosadex, salvation IMRT, Zytiga.

Patrick Turner.

only the good die young, old buddy -- and as we all know, 71 is the new 91. ok, not sure wtf i'm talking about right now, because i had chicken for dinner and all that tryptophan has me flyin. just read DHT is like hi-protein powder for PCa and it's made in the adrenals as well.

the PSMA scan is supposed to reveal how widespread your mets are? i'm thinking of doing a 30-day water and vitamin fast, with PSA tests before and after... maybe add fresh aloe vera gel to the water. that stuff is amazing.

praying for you whether ya like it or not. :o)

Hi RICH22,

I'll accept prayers from anyone, but because its merely a function of telepathic good will transmission. I doubt a guy up in the sky exists, and I think us humans are arrogant by trying to define the communaly imagined God as we do. Its usually a benign thing to have common beliefs in God, but in past its led to millions dying in religious wars, some of which continue. So belief in God is dangerous.

But goodness without any God belief is not a bad idea because it obliges us to be good to others, and not sin to upset them badly, then weasal out of the blame by confessing to a priest then getting God's forgiveness.

if any fast does work to help you gain time with Pca, maybe its to eliminate ALL carbohydtrates and make you body go into ketogenic mode and thus burn fats, and keep low blood glucose level low. You should be able to get a bottle of test strips to test your pee to see how ketogenic you become. Its The Best Way to lose weight fast by diet.

The theory is that with less glucose in blood, Pca uptake is lower and it grows slower. BUT, the problem is that Pca is generally such a slow grower it needs only a minute amount of glucose intake to grow, and it would grow while you starved yourself to death whil craving for a big bowl of pasta. For all I know, maybe the Pca would pack its bags, and leave your body because ya didn't treat it right, and go find another victim :-).

I try to be nice to everyone I meet, especially the angels at hospitals, aka angels, and sure, angels are impossible to believe in but hey, this belief is not just benign, its a huge simple pleasure in life. Unlike a god they don't judge you, don't send you to hell for looking at a porno movie or not paying the $100 tax due on time, no, they care about you, and for you, and you smile even when they rush at you with a big needle for some poison like chemo. One said to me at Chemo No 1, "Now Patrick, if youse ain't got a sense of humour, Get Out....." and I gazed into her eyes and said "oh I luv ya" and she blushed, and we got on very well......

Patrick Turner.

lol - keep laughing, my friend - it's the best medicine!

I don't have a religion but do know God exists - as do angels. Had an angel slap me in the back of the head, leaving a white powdery coating on my shoulder that disappeared when I tried to touch it. Never got to see anything but the wing-tip that had slapped me and that only momentarily, as it whisked away above to my right, at about a 60° angle. Huge feathers, will never forget that.

Went to uro-onc monday, asked if vegetarian diet helped fight cancer - more specifically, was my consumption of animal products feeding my PCa - he said there's no reliable data confirming that, that he was aware of. Glad to hear that cause I eats mo' chicken than any man's ever seen.

Turning 72 in 2 days; can't wait. I'm sure something momentous will occur.

Well RICH22, if ya eat mo chicken than any man's seen, yo got featheritis. Symptoms might be just as you say, you're getting big head-slapping feathered birds sneak up behind you, give you a biff, usually when ya made a bad mistake doin summink. Maybe you need to see an ornithologist as well as an oncologist.

Hmm, that Back Door Man does not look like he could be trusted with your daughter, or you son. Don't lend the critter any money.

I doubt if my 95% vego diet is helping me fight Pca, but it sure helps to keep arthritis inflammation aches & pains at a minimum.

I now got ache in hip that's strange, feels bad after I cycle 1km, then eases down after 20 sec stop, then bad after next km, and so on, but then OK for more km, but I'm not game to ride 50km. I was doing 300km a week for 3 weeks before Lu177 No 2. So I am now back on prednisolone tablets to see what good happens, if that's possible. I had to give up cycling when I went to stay in Melbourne for IMRT in 2016 for 5 weeks, and then again for 10 weeks after having double TKR in early 2017. So for every thing there's a time, a season...……

Patrick Turner.

Patrick, you were back on your cycle in 10 weeks after 2 total knee replacements? You, and many others on this site make me so ashamed of myself. I must slink into my corner with my crackers and cheese. Yeah, I know cheese is only good for rats, but ain't got any and someone has got to eat it.

Hi monte1111.

At about 25, someone said to me "Oi, youse are the bloke they could not root, shoot, or electrocute", and I just said "I'm flattered that you'd think that....." and chuckles all round. I was a good building foreman, not bad for a slow coach on the bike, but I was spectacularly unsuccessful finding any sheela I could keep on the porch. Oh how they raptured in my care, but that gave them the confidence to pharque all the other Good Men, and quite Bad Ones on their incessant travels about.

So I am justa very ordinary bloke, and life has taught me to be humble.

I have a web page on my knee experience.....

I am continuing to enjoy pain free knees, but my walking gait is still not nearly as good as it was at 45 when I strutted life's stage looking and feeling indestructable.

Crackers and cheese never ever appealed to me, and McDonalds was a no-no; I saw Coke as Pure Poison, mild sure, but insidiously really very bad stuff. Then I found that all supermarkets here needed only 2% of their shelf space to put all the good food and drink for health I only ever bought.

It seems the world is badly addicted to JUNK, and the Food Industry plays a dangerous con-artist game of trying to get ppl's diabetes to happen so they all make obscene profits. Many Ppl have no control to tip junk into belly, washed in by dangerous liquids. I have iron fisted control of my urges, and I use and electronic weigher to track my naked morning weight daily, within +/- 50 grams.

I was eating 8 small red apples a day, and thinking maybe the fructose made it impossible to lose some visceral fat so I just quit eating apples. 2 months later, I am about 2 Kg lighter at 81.8Kg this morning. Fructose is a most terrible form of sugar.

I'm 1.840M high so BMI = 24.1, about the same as I was at 30, but then I had higher ratio of muscle : fat, ie, lower total fat %. Our bodies tend to want to stay a weight ( but only if the mind says yes, and if we control the mind ) and I'd be a lot lighter if I had my 30yo total fat %. But my mind asks "Hmm, is that the cancer triggering me to get thin ?", - as it often does, when your body begins to usher you out of the theatre called Earth.

I have no idea yet, but its day 8 after 2nd Lu177 and the slight pains I have had over last 7 days have suddenly eased a bit, so, is that the light at end of the tunnel? It is a freight train rushing down the rails to get me?

I have no idea yet.

Its 35C here, lots more summer heat on the way,

Patrick Turner

your summer is our winter... until the earth does a pole-flip, which may take moments or a few thousand years, no one knows. seems magnetic poles are shifting at 30 miles/yr... which is a whole lot.

that hip-ache sounds exactly what i go thru, with my ankles, which have no cartilage at all. i walk til ankles ache, then stop to lean or sit for a few mins. then get back to walking and i'm fine until they ache again and repeat the process until i've walked as much as i wanted and/or reached my destination. they remain mostly swollen until i've kept legs elevated horizontal with earth, for a few hours... but i also take HCTz twice a day, for inflammation. sure, there are naturally anti-inflammatory foods, which i love and eat regularly, but i dunno if inflammation is reduced enuff. hence, the horrid Big Pharma poison. without m'pills, i'd be daid as a doornail by now. hate BP's greed but owe my life to the bastards. oh well.

as for the sheelas... can't live with 'em, can't shoot em. they're lovely while they last but have shorter and shorter shelf-lives nowadays, i think.

PS you do know that's jim morrison in the pic, yes? and most definitely, were he alive, would not be trusted with my son, daughter or money or my drugs and/or sanity. i wasn't even crazy about his music beyond 2-3 mega hits. and yes, the ornithological head-slap had much to do with recklessly charting unknown waters: was mixing acid and angel dust. Epilogue: passed out presumably from head-slap, awoke moments later stone cold sober and really pissed off, having expected one helluva time for the next 5-10 hours or so.

At the time i was an atheist, hence had no idea this not-so-subtle message from "on high" was a warning.

Evidence that the supernatural entities exist and have wings of feathers are a common dream, or a common perception by religious freaks who might have otherwise been defined as schizophrenics, or by anyone who is so completely dissatisfied by boring straight existence that they naturally drift to taking any available mind altering drugs they can afford. It all began when animals and us ate fruit that fell down from trees and began to ferment to make alcohol. Sometimes a snake brought us an apple, but with conditions. Adam took a bite of an apple brought by a snake, God got very angry, so Adam chucked apple over shoulder into bushes, and when pain of what followed began he smelt the apple, and tasted it, and YaaaaHooooo, he felt better, but next day he had a hangover and beat up Eve, even after she'd cooked up that snake real nice on the fire.

But if we accept the religious and other imagery imagined by say Leonardo Da Vinci, and many other artists and sculptors and songsters, we revel in joy of the imagination. Its just not real though, and that's OK. We need fantasy, it seems.

Patrick Turner.

That is the greatest Adam and Eve, snake and the apple story ever! Are you sure you are not imbibing in 8 small red fermented apples a day?

Hi monte1111, I enjoy the far better form of intoxication that comes from Awareness which makes me perceive that so many guiding principles for life of humans are based on Pure Bull Shyte. Just about every group of humans which has evolved over millions of years ( not 7,000 years like Bible says ) has generated a unique collective imagined God or groups of many gods, maybe The Sun, maybe some animal, and just look at ancient Greece and Rome, and Incas. Pity help anyone who spoke out to say it was all just BS. With ppl forced to submit to BS preached by priests who clung desperately to wealth and power, scientific research was delayed by thousands of years so that a cure for Pca has still not yet been found, let alone to many other cancers which wrench ppl away from loved ones in floods of tears.

Look what happened when some smart arse dude said the Sun, not the Earth, was centre of our then known universe that was merely our tiny little Solar System which was in a Hugh Mungus place called the Mily Way, which was in a unimaginably larger Universe, which we are now guessing might exist in a far greater number of Universes outside the one we know. Infinity or Eternity cannot be meaningfully defined, some might say its because the definition is infinite, like bigger than all the digital data on all the computers of the world, and our brains are only finite, only marginally "better" than a chimp or a dog. So there is no definable reason why all this galactic stuff exists, so we are all going to die without understanding, so I suggest everyone concentrate on being good to all ppl around you while not trying to understand God.

Why has anyone lived long enough to get Pca, and to have treatment to lengthen their life? Its due to science that is not handcuffed by God beliefs. Some ask why we have not contacted advanced aliens to ask them what they do for a Pca cure. We think communications are limited by speed of light, a cosmically very slow darn thing, only 300,000km per second. This speed means you cannot have emails to places that are thousands of light years away. We have utterly no idea that advanced aliens might have means of communicating billions of times faster, and we could not know, yet, at least. So we seem to be alone, trapped with what seems the infinitely intricate workings of DNA and how it goes astray, and is allowed to do this by our immune systems.

Now I live in Astraya ( properly known as Australia ) but in my little population of 24millions in a vast land with similar area to USA or China, many ppl have "gorn astray" because they cling to old beliefs and get drunk too often and have an allergy to reading books. But at least we do have those who stay away from the grog, THC, LSD, etc, etc, etc, and they get a high by finding out stuff that might give longer life to mothers and fathers and children affected by cancer. Very slow incremental advances are being made, often allied to what others are doing around the world. Of course motives are slightly unclear. For many, research is just a well paid job that is less dirty and grimy than say being a bloke in a factory, or who works on road construction. But say we cure all cancer and all other diseases, and we all get to live for 2,000 years, at least? Is anyone ready for that?

One thing we are good at is to leap in to find solutions that work for the short term. Printing allowed the abolition of ignorance, with side effect of fake information. The Industrial Revolution meant ordinary ppl could afford to buy a pair of cotton undies. Sewers allowed ppl in cities to crowd together without getting Typhoid. Electricity allowed lights at night so we could read the printed books. Cancer cures would save us spending vast sums on ppl who get cancer, and all those savings would build better schools, and rebuild cities flooded by rising seas in next 1,000 years of global warming and nobody really could know the full results of Pca cure but hey, is it not good to try to find a cure eh?

The convoluted academic discussions about the future kinda lead nowhere, until we get there, and we see our direction as history unfolds.

Wodawee want? A cure, Wenawee wannit? Now, or last year if that can be arranged.

But history shows so many collapses in past societies who were aspirational like us. Their demise was often due to unseen problems or they denied problems existed. They often had no access to records of history in books.

So as we lengthen our lives, we need to keep investing to see what may take us out.

I officially gave up alcohol in 2014 when instead of getting a nice buzz at dinner time with music by Mozart or Beethoven, I began to get a little sorry, maudlin, so I quickly quit. I believe apples to be fairly benign, but like all fruit they have fructose and this makes visceral fat that surrounds our organs, etc, so that most ppl at middle age, say 55, are well over weight and thus causing knees and hips to wear out too soon, plus make themselves liable to get a large range of diseases, say diabetes, maybe including Pca. There is a vast amount of fructose added to processed foods sold in supermarkets. I don't buy any processed foods.

I did grow some Sativa cannabis in 2014-2015, and extracted its oil, and that gave me a nice calming nightly 5 hour high for 8 months with average dose about 3mg. There was not the slightest change to my slowly increasing Psa over that time, so the blokes online, Rick Simpson and Dennis Hill et all seemed to me to be quite wrong to suggest cannabis cures Pca. I had none of the side effects of paranoia or withdrawal when I stopped taking the oil one day when I knew it was having no effect on Pca progress. But it did have a mentally calming effect, I ceased to always be in a hurry on the bicycle, like I was racing myself. Nobody needs to race to get enormous benefits of prolonged aerobic exercise.

But there is exhilaration when we push ourselves with our own power to go fast. It can happen until we die if we are lucky, and our bodies don't fall apart. We all once learnt to hunt and gather, and connected the high we got with success at both.

I do hope my hip is not wrecked by cancer, or by onset of age related cartilage wear because of congenital defects that destined me for short hip life, like my knees. But if my hips are worn out, surgery may not be possible because of the total radiation I have had to my hips. On the other hand, a replacement hip joint might mean that a cancer lesion in the top of femur is all cut away when it is fitted with a titanium implant.

But I have seen good men suddenly find they need a wheelchair.

So life is still possible, Steven Hawking showed us how, and my house could be easily made to allow access in a wheelchair. I'd get a manual chair until my shoulders and arms grew weak.

When I used crutches after my knee joints were done, I discovered how much nicer ppl were around me. I quite enjoyed life on crutches.

Patrick Turner.

my my, how the boy can write! keep everything in a file, publish a book, the memoirs of a PCa survivor who went bonkers, then came back from the omnipresent foe: Major D. Pression

reality is for people who can't handle drugs. but some drugs are really fun! just as some reality involves unexplainable phenomena that's also really fun. take faith healing f'rinstance. how many stories have we come upon, where someone gets a CT, the radonc declares "you got a tumor the size of Everest" and 2 weeks later, the damn thing disappears?

the magic of the inexplicable. i agree, most people need a cure for mundanity. there's only so much joy to be gleaned from navel lint. me, i'm a writer by avocation. after i've worked on a piece of verbal artistry until it shines like a jewel, then get rejection letters up the wazoo, i put it away for a while. when i come across it again, years later, i remember the birth pains of my creation... or just re-read it again and wonder "holy shit, did i write that?"

but i totally agree, about diet and exercise -- gotta keep doing what we're doing.

there's a terrific song, written by a bloke named Al Hoffman - I'm Gonna Live Til I Die -

RICH22 wrote, amongst many other things,

"the magic of the inexplicable. i agree, most people need a cure for mundanity."

IOW, us ppl try to escape boredom.

Some escape so far into an alternative version of reality that they keep on going unto oblivion, kinda like too much of a good thing. But not if you are being sent into pain hell by Pca. Then morphine becomes a very friendly serious partner.

Now for the ungloomy......

Today I worked, up at 7, out in yard to cut vines invading hedge, then remove a large hedge stump with a chainsaw to allow a wanted young tree that planted itself against the hedge stump. Well, years ago. a parrot ate the seed of a big tree nearby, then pooped it out flying home, and a seed landed in a place where in first 3 years it barely grew above the hedge, after send roots down beside a hedge plant that is dreadful tree if allowed to grow that big. But this year, it sprouted so much higher than the hedge so it would gain my admiration, and spare itself being trimmed by my zeal with a hedge clipper. In nature, survival of the fittest does not always apply, its the weak that are bright, they pick their moment to dazzle us grumpy old gardeners, and yes, we like the little deciduous tree because will become a glory later, shading the house in summer without being a nuisance.

Then my fencing contractor arrived, and I worked for him like a good apprentice and we flew through a days work by 12:30, so he is sure happy, and as the sweat drenched my shorts in the heat, I was thinking that if there was something wrong with my hip, then this activity would surely make it worse, but no, my body worked just fine, but there is something still wrong.... I have no idea what. Normally, I'd have left home at 6am on bike and back by 10:30 after 90km, and before the summer heat. But because the hip trouble happened on bike, better I leave it for awhile, and give those hours to help someone else, and enjoy a good job done well. It delighted me to see the two of us could work together as a team. I might be scared that the Pca is here, or there, or somewhere else, and sure it might well be, but its not showing any sign of being more present each day.

Maybe Lu177 is working. Hoo Noze, could be.

Good to see a pic of Frankie Laine, he seems to be doing an advert for Philips :-)

Please try to stay well. Please do not go insane, it is too much trouble for us sainies.

Patrick Turner.

ah, my good man, tis far too late to wish for my continued sanity. i've been quite crazy since age 16, when i became quite addicted to beer and cigs. after 29 yrs of being clean and sober, i'm still insane but have learned how to function within it. so many humorous quotes about sanity not being desirable anyway....

come to revisit the idea of insanity, i think anyone who's fallen in love and then had mincemeat made of their heart, goes bonker bananas and never sees the world as a real place again. if by chance, that person then has it happen a 2nd time... well, that would be me. tho i made the best of things, staying with one woman after another, i gotta admit i was only in love twice. again i turn to the classics:

I hold it true, whate'er befall;

I feel it, when I sorrow most;

'Tis better to have loved and lost

Than never to have loved at all.

-- Alfred Lord Tennyson, "In Memoriam A.H.H."

As for this detested cancer...

Though much is taken, much abides; and though

We are not now that strength which in old days

Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,

One equal temper of heroic hearts,

Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

-- James Joyce, "Ulysses"

PS that's an interesting story about the young tree growing next to the stump. i'd never consider taking a chainsaw to the stump to help the young tree. the fact that the sapling was doing fine with it would be proof enough for leaving the old thing. hopefully, your intentions will prevail.

Hi RICH22.

You say you are insane, but that you admit it is a deed of sanity, because the truly insane don't know the condition others all see they have.

Insanity can be fairly benign; I shared a house once with a lady who had umpteen mental problems; but we never argued once in 11 years.

But if I had shared house with Hitler or Stalin, maybe I'd have had frightful experience of insanity.

Many ppl do not realise they have PTSD from just living their lives. They cannot line up for a handout of $$$$$$$ for compensation. Soldiers returning from wars often do this because society knows they have been ruined by horrors, been shot at, and they are young, with a life to be still yet lived. But many others fall in lesser battles in ordinary civvy life, they must struggle on, and I have to space and time to suggest solutions here.

Ah, The Stump and the Sapling. A story of youth and age perhaps? A brilliant child outshining his ugly father? Well, one can interpret real stories in all sorts of ways, but in my case, there are were 3 living entities involved, a slim beautiful sapling, an old hedge plant and an old man who lived close by. The old hedge plant was there before the old came to live nearby, and was well used to having its limbs cut short so often to provide a bushy greenery between man and his neighbours. But if allowed freedom to grow to a tree, the hedge plant looks plain unattractive, and would grow roots into the man's drain pipes nearby.

So the hedge plant spent its life as a stump hiding its obesity and shortness with leaves put out around it. Perhaps it felt it didn't really need to exist, something that the man thought about. Anyway the quiet relationship of man to hedge became disturbed by accidental pooping of a seed from a bird, and the man took no notice when he regularly trimmed the hedge, and the saplings limbs were trimmed with the hedge plants. A honey suckle vine had also wound its way into these beings lives, and it had been allowed to flower in summer because the flowers had a nice aroma. The vine was allowed to have sex, unlike the sapling, hedge stump and old man. People don't realise that when a plant flowers, its having sex, sending out pollen, or receiving it.

Humans cut off the sex organs of plants while flowering plants are flowering, and gather them in bunches to give to other humans to express love, or to beg forgiveness for misdeeds and so often, to also get some sex. But flowers are also for grief, tonnes of flowers were put about when Princess Diana died, but I digress.

The plants at my place have no rebelled against my whimsical rule over them and have not tried to come inside like a deranged Triffid.

But in just one spring, the sapling decided to send up limbs to convince the old man to spare it from the hedge clipper, a horrid Grim Reaper of a thing if ever there was one. The old man saw what the sapling was doing and could envisage a future where it could make life better for all involved nearby, and the old man thought the hedge stump would not mind being ended because it would not prosper while living under the shade of the sapling as it became a tree. And the old man thought that when he ends, he would not mind if his remains became useful to a tree nearby.

I found out the species of the sapling, its the same as two trees I have in my street nearby, some kind of deciduous cedar trees. One is a male tree, and gives most pleasant shade in summer, and gives pollen in spring. The other is a female tree, because although it has the same leaves and bark as the male, it grows fruit which ripen in about a month's time, there are many berries about 5mm dia, and not all are chewed up when a bird eats them. So they go straight through, like apple seeds in a horse, and so I happened to get an accidental planting which I quite like. I have had a history of not being a very creative gardener. I was always occupied by other creativity. I don't yet know if my sapling, which will grow all the better with a dead stump beside it, is

a female or male, and I don't mind what sex it is.

I'd have to say that I find this suburbia I live in with streets and single storey housing has served my sanity well for the last 45 years. I felt lucky to not live in a multistorey apartment building, within a crowd, while not feeling I belong to it.

Patrick Turner.

These wonderful observations reminded me of how lucky I am to see a lot of the natural world around me with "new eyes" since I was diagnosed with ultimately incurable Stage IV prostate cancer several years ago. Thanks so much for sharing these simple yet profound observations and thoughts.


PS i dunno if what slapped me was in any way related/connected to any religion. I only know what i experienced with 2 of my 5 senses - saw a wing-tip and felt the touch of something that left white powder on shoulder and upper arm. That it was unexplainable by physical laws is certain, as it left by going through my apt's walls as if they weren't there. My mind and body are all i have, to make sense of the world. whether my experiences conflict or agree with physical laws is not under my control. i'm glad that most of the time, science works for me. what also works for me is Shakespeare. and the arts.

monte1111 profile image
monte1111 in reply to RICH22

Frankie Laine lived till he died in 2007 at age 93. I do remember him most as the singer of the theme of the TV show Raw Hide. Also liked Rowdy Yates played by Clint Eastwood (had to look name up, damn lupron). I would have been about 10 years old. I have been touched on the shoulder and had white powder left on it, but that was me being so drunk I was running into the wall and knocking plaster powder down. That was in my reality is for people who can't handle drugs days. Sometimes known as wall banging. I also fell into the bath tub while trying to take a wizz. That really hurt the next day. I am not for a moment questioning your out of this world experience. I am jesting not jousting. And if neither Shakespeare or Mark Twain said that I should be put into Bartletts. Jesting not jousting. For a moment I thought I felt a pat on the back. Peace my friend. And I hope you have as nice a day as I plan to.

RICH22 profile image
RICH22 in reply to monte1111

the odd thing about the powder: i tried to scoop it up with my finger but it disappeared with my touch. so i ruled out plaster.

Well then it seems there's a bit of benign delusion going on in what might be your brain. Welcome to the world, youse ain't alone. I might predict you like music, and for years after I gave up doing building work for a living I made audio sound systems for ppl so they could escape the world by going into music. The Bard takes some getting used to, but I hear his perceptions more easily than I did at 17. It takes many ppl 1/2 a lifetime before they can make sense of art.

In my heyday, there was nothing more intimately vibrant than a winter's night, a blazing fire, a glass of shiraz, and some Bach, and a fine sheela who craved Rodger.

Patrick Turner.

i thought the Shakespeare reference would be obvious: Hamlet, Act I, Sc. 5

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,

Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

and if i may expound a bit: 'twould be a dull world were all reality explainable and already comprehended in full. lucky for us, there are still mysterious and mind-boggling phenomena to be examined because so far, all intensive investigation hath turned up nil.

i've gone over that incident in my head for over 30 years. and that's only one of a dozen or so occurrences that i simply could not explain in any other way than to chalk it up to divine intervention... which obviously is the how and why of my desertion of atheism.

Hi RICH22,

I was brought up a catholic and at about 17 became a devout RC, Retired Catholic because I realised the beliefs of totalitarian Catholics were completely indigestible, so I privately vomited them all up behind a church one day, and happily proceeded as a devout humanist for the rest of my life.

Believing in the example of Christ's life was laudable, but the Pope and the edifice of defined theology has always been a Great Pile Of BS.

Christ surely was a Good Bloke, a carpenter. I became a carpenter, and when one deciphers the New Testament there is a lot of good stuff that I just found to be natural good. But we all need to sift out the BS, the miracles for example, all added to sex up a bit of a story about a freedom fighter Jesus. I just cannot accept this God the father, Holy Ghost, virgin Mary, its all the result of bullshit artists, schizophrenics maybe. God did NOT guide the pens who wrote the Bible or any books at all. All were written by men, and I am not aware women were ever allowed to write anything.

I did secumb to getting married in a country church of England church at 28, ( Oh how romantic ) but later I very quickly found I'd married a complete dumbcluck, and that I wasn't much better because I'd married her. I was granted a divorce in State run court, took 20 minutes to settle the property, and much better deal than had I lived in Ireland where divorce was forbidden, and you were supposed to cope with a stupid romantic decision for life. Anyone who vehemently supports the idea of there being no God, ie, devout atheist, is of course entitled to his belief, but its too simplistic, too certain, and thus another form of applied arrogance.

IMHO, to be happy, we need to embrace mystery and uncertainty, and not be too worried about that we would ever need to be intoxicated because we should find satisfaction in work, making others happy, and never destroying our environment.

But so many are sinners, and what I just wrote is unfollowable.

I now never make others unhappy, or think I know everything, I am never intoxicated to seek escape, and I liked my work that gave a better living standard to others, and by not breeding I left the environment less attacked, and when I cycle past cattle in paddocks near my house, they are happy because they know I am not going to eat them.

But if everyone was like me the World would be plunged into a severe depression because all the towers of power would not be relevant, billions would be unemployed. There'd be more cancer research and help for the poor, and millions of millionaires ruined. I am very healthy living on only 2% of the range of products and ideas being sold. I'd hate to own a Maserati, because it would own me; I'd much prefer a bicycle.

I never liked ladies who wore high heels and needed fancy clothes and makeup. They looked 1,000 times better with flat shoes, dressed ready to do real things, and sometimes naked, and with heads full of goodness. I'd like the rivers to run with clear water, the forests to remain, the CO2 contained and tyrants deposed.

Not much of this will come to pass, but gross materialism never made me happy.

I really don't mind being alone.

Its a cool morning here today, time to reflect after a scorching hot week where we had record breaking high summer temperatures.

After yesterday's hard work, I feel well, and if my Pca was bad, I'd feel worse. So maybe Lu177 is working...…. for now...…

Patrick Turner.

A true modern day Henry Thoreau. May Miss Lu177 work out for you.

Lu177 is not some kind of sweet 17 yo gal. Oh no.

But I imagine her to be a very no-nonsense 45yo woman aka Aunty Lutetia, and she is such classical beauty that when she turns up at the raging Pca parties inside my bones, she smiles and says " Could I come in? and the Pca blokes fall about amazed because nobody has ever smiled at then, or loved them. Once inside the door, she scurries about and engages these dull brutes, and pops a little mini atom bomb into their drinky, an ultimate form of drink spiking. Well, the mini bombs go off without a bang or flash, but with enough short range beta radiation that the Pca blokes end by becoming junk stuff on the floor, kinda like how vampires fade down when wooden stake is hammered into a bad heart by a priest with a feisty gleem in his eyes.

Its exhausting work for aunty, and there's only a limited number of mini bombs in her handbag, and she herself changes into a Ms Ytrium and the body whisks this off in blood to kidneys which directs it toward a toilet bowl. What an inglorious end to Such a Dame!

But Aunty is an entity that is cloned, happy to have a short life, and she does not end because all stars like her re-invent themselves during the passage of eternity, and may again play a role as Aunty Lutetia.

She is of course difficult to understand, just as any woman could be, and her foe of Pca is even more difficult to understand and methinks all humans are still far away from fully understanding cancer, let alone curing it promptly when it begins, or not long after.

Oh how great men screamed for a doctor just like Henry VIII did about the festering abscess in a leg that lingered for many years after a jousting accident. Had there been FarceBook in 1544, imagine the traffic, "I have thy same swaeeling on mine leegge, and stench doth peeve mine husband. Knowest thou of good potion? , or physician who doth not leave me drained and paile after draynin so much bloode?"

They were telling each other of their ailments and cures, and most so certain their opinions mattered, and all the while completely ignorant about everything, and most died by 45.

Patrick Turner.

Mr. Anthro P. Morphism meets William Cuppy. Seems the box of Pandora that is P-T's imagination hath been opened, unleashing demons of formidable proportions, the likes of whiche wee have naught behelde since Hector was a pup. Had a creative writing prof in CCNY who reminded us that our inner child was the source of unlimited imaginings. to contact the little bastards, we should try animating inanimate objects. Brother Pat, you got a leaping headstart. PCa cells are no match for Lu177 that possesses a consciousness and female identity.

RICH22 profile image
RICH22 in reply to monte1111

i haven't read enough Henry David -- the one essay that stuck with me forever was On Self-Reliance. oh damn, that was Ralph Waldo... oh well. lost that game show.

Thanks for sharing your story! You have done much better than the average PCa patient. I was diagnosed 6 months ago and wonder how long I will keep my realatively good health. To read your story and know that you have been fighting for 10 years, gives me hope and comfort! Thank you

Hi Patrick. Seems like PSA is going in right direction for you. Down to 25 after last chemo. So sounds like chemo did do some good? Hoping the Lu177 helps you out a lot. I know a lot of people here will be watching and hoping also. I am getting a little nervous because I know the Lupron and Xtandi will fail at some time. We all want to do what we can to help ourselves, but it seems like most everything thrown up for discussion are illusions. I'm trying to get metformin and a statin but know that at this stage in the game they are probably also illusions. If I was younger I would of course be trying everything I could think of but I will be 69 years in June and live by myself except for a lot of very annoying cats. I do have a social network so its not like I am alone on this planet. But I am like you and have no one to get up and argue with in the morning. You did not mention cycling in last message. I am assuming the aches from the Lu177 have not slowed you down too much?

Hi monte1111,

My onco could see the rise of Psa from 12 to 45 after 4 chemos, and he had little hope that more chemo would do any good, I though the same, and so did a local GP. But onco had told me he'd refer me to Lu177 if chemo was a dud. Well, he did refer me. I had chemo 5 and Psa leveled,

and I had to wait a month before Lu177 and Psa fell to 25, and oncologist and doc for Lu177 could not explain why. I insisted on going ahead with Lu177, knowing docs cannot know all things much better than I can, and all that matters is that I hit the Pca hard, and if Psa goes lower, and scans look better, I'm getting more time alive.

Before No 2 Lu177, Psa was 21, a slight decline, and I will have scans and blood tests in 4 weeks and then the situation will be assessed again.

I see from your post you are 69 and live with a lot of annoying cats. Hey, I'm a Leo, a darn big castrated lion, and living with myself could be worse than many cats, BUT, even if I lived with a Nice Pussy, I'd have to cope by using a technicolour 3 speed vibrator to maybe generate one orgasm between two sentinent beings present in the same bed. I apologise for not being serious.

The bicycle loves me riding her, and we might get married soon, and I asked a celebrent about this, and he asked why I wanted to marry me bike and I said "I can go fer a ferkin ride any 'ol time I ferkin like", and he nodded reverantly and understood my motivation.

But yes, I do have aches and pains after the Lu177, but not enough to have me take prednisolone or other pain killers, and I've managed short rides - less than 26km - since last Friday. Side effects are less than chemo. I read my diary about what happened after No 1 Lu177 when I still had side effects from chemo, and this time I am coping better, but I will need time before I can work back up to doing 300km a week at good speed like I was before no 2 Lu177.

Anyway, I slight break in the cycling at this time of year is good. But I always think that somehow something unpredicted will happen to disable me, like a bone met going crazy in a hip which would change my life; I've seen it happen in two other men, one is bedridden in hospital and was walking the dog and getting around just fine only 8 weeks ago.

Patrick Turner.

RICH22 profile image
RICH22 in reply to monte1111

metformin to lower glucose levels, yes? i take capsules of Bitter Melon (aka ampalaya and dozens of other names, used all over the world) because they contain 3 sugar-lowering ingredients and maybe cholesterol-lowering. but for a statin in natural form, i use Red Yeast Rice, which lowered my cholesterol so well that it replaced the Simcor i had been taking (simvastatin+niacin), because taking both the rice and the simcor almost knocked me unconscious!

So taking the bitter melon and red yeast rice more or less provides the same benefits as you'd get from the more toxic pharmaceuticals. try it out, you have nothing to lose?

Shooter1 profile image
Shooter1 in reply to Tall_Allen

When Xtandi was making me an invalid all by itself, Dexamethesone was advised to help with side effects while I was cutting dosage. Once down to "live with dose" of xtandi (90mg/day), dex was cut until I was off it. Dex and pred very helpful at times with Xtandi.

You're a warrior,'ve been in the trenches...I agree with Tall Allen with your PSA at this level, then the chance your testosterone level is low is highly likely--so why sweat another test. The concern with metformin is only if your creatnine is greater than 1.5 which puts you at risk for lactic for the statin, if your lft's are ok, then absolutely...I am on a statin and will be asking about metformin....As for the genetic testing, I doubt Kaiser will agree to that, but it is nice to know what mutations are involved, so that you can look at clinical trials for your specific mutation type(s). You can appeal their decision. How did they determine your bone mets were "subtle"---what radiological test did they use ??

All the best,


I'm Kaiser Advantage (Medicare) so will contact Foundation One re genetics. I believe I have this correct and that this is what Nalakrats would advise. The "subtle" was from last bone scan which when I was finished with they said "Oh, no, you have another scan." "This one is 3 d." Curious myself, will check what scans I actually had (have dvd etc) Message you tomorrow. Have a great evening.

Have a great evening, monte....


RICH22 profile image
RICH22 in reply to NPfisherman

i was on Simcor (statin+niacin) for hi cholest. then added red yeast rice and almost passed out from low chol. So i think the rice (which contains lovastatin + natural enzymes) may be gentler on the kidneys, which is a serious neg. side effect of concentrated statins.

NPfisherman profile image
NPfisherman in reply to RICH22

never get too much of a good thing....statins help....on Atorvastatin...the eating right is tough....getting the protein is challenging...

Not to “T” ... I’ve been dancin almost four years... Keep flying under the radar.. Good luck monte1111

NPfisherman profile image
NPfisherman in reply to

Keep dancing, LuLu.... just dance, it'll be ok...

I'm curious as to why you were prescribed gabapentin. Was it for Xtandi side effects? I've been on X for 8 months and lately have had increased back and hip pain at night making sleep difficult.

monte1111 profile image
monte1111 in reply to willshake

Gabapentin 300 mg 2 times at bedtime was for foot neuropathy. Helped with sleep for about a week. Didn't cure neuopathy but it is different, so maybe keeping it from getting worse? Took j-o-h-n suggestion and now take 2 times a day. Eliminated 90% plus of my hot flashes. Just started taking 3 mg melatonin and surprisingly seems to help a lot with sleep. We will see if that continues. Taking 200 mg celebrex 2 times a day for pain. And does help aching back. Requested celebrex actually because of Zometa trial but I'm getting half the 400 mg dosage the participants were getting. So helping lower back pain was nice surprise. My t-12 spinal compression wasn't even mentioned in last bone scan, but taking out a heavy garbage can a while back reminded me it was still there. So I have an excuse of not lifting anything heavier than a 12 ounce can of Budweiser. So am taking prednisone, gabapentin and celebrex which all can help pain I think. So minor aches and also sometimes stiffness in morning. Have been taking xtandi at about 8pm every night and get very sleepy about an hour and a half later. Hard to keep eyes open. Try to take last prednisone and celebrex at 6pm so they don't interfere with sleep. Am going to experiment and take Xtandi at 10 pm tonight. I do remember when my back was so bad I could hardly get up in the morning but I can't remember for sure if it was the Gabapentin that pretty much relieved that. Sorry, we should all keep journals. Damned lupron. J-o-h-n or some one else may be able to give you better advice. Good luck.

willshake profile image
willshake in reply to monte1111

Thanks for taking the time for all the info--very useful. I'll try taking Xtandi at bedtime.I'd like to try Celebrex but after open heart surgery two years ago, I'm not sure it's a good idea. But I would try that first before moving on to opioids. I do get about 3-4 hours sleep after having a medicated brownie (cannabis). Maybe you can work up to a six pack. Best wishes.

monte1111 profile image
monte1111 in reply to willshake

3 to 4 hours is actually good. I've had about 3 6 hour sleeps in last 2 years and they were precious. Have not slept 8 hours in 2 years. Will see what moving xtandi to bedtime (1 300 mg gabapentin, 4 xtandi, 1 3 mg melatonin ) does. I really should look into the medicated brownies. Just bought 5 packages of Oreos. They don't do a thing for me but they were on sale. Anytime someone comes over I say "Hey have a cookie. Take a couple when you leave." If I'm reading j-o-h-n right he is taking 2 600 mg. gabapentin a day. I appear to be being short changed and will demand that MO correct this immediately. Of course they may have reasons to be over medicating j-o-h-n.

Hey Monte... I'm sorry to hear that you're in pain... the only meds I mentioned is the Neurontin/Gabapentin which I take twice a day (600mg) for my peripheral neuropathy and the two scoops of chocolate chip ice cream once a day. I didn't realize that you're a loner surrounded by cats but hey you got a friend in me.

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Monday 01/07/2019 5:45 PM EST (My name day).

been married 4 times and have learned one thing: better to be alone than living with the wrong woman! lonliness is a walk in the park compared to what kinda hell a woman can wreak on ya, buddy. same for gay people - love is heaven but can send you to hell in the blink of a heartbeat.... or something like that. i got Afib so i get confused by it all. :o)

I dated 13 females for longer than 3mths, always with my mind privately courting the idea of being with them for 20 years+. Two lasted 3 years each, I married one of them, and I lived with about 4 who just could not stay away until the dread of commitment loomed in their minds, rendering them from intelligent warm lovers to emotional spouters of pure gibberish, which gave them reason to hate themselves, again, and off they went, maybe they'd wait a month before the absence of sex drove them to repeat the same pattern with their next man. Someone wise said the stripes on a young tigress do not change, they just fade slightly. I found that to be true.

I think now that if I had tried to read many more books on female psychology I would have been able to better predict the success of any given relationship I tried.

But most ppl, including myself before 60 are hungry for something with someone, so we just adapt to what is available; there was a terrible tiny pool of females to chose from. All we thought necessary was that the ladies were willing, and that they'd invite our attention, and that is the only single guideline. So we start with a huge dose of sex on second date, and we end up having a one night stand that might extend for years, without hardly any meaningful discussion of anything serious, and if attempted, it needed us to have taken a drink beforehand, with a smoke in hand.

I have had 2 bouts of Afib, first was in 2004 when I quit taking VIOOX for arthritis in knees. VIOOX was later found to cause HR irregular beats. It was also found to cause heart attacks, and it became a banned drug after some huge court cases in USA.

But my mum had taken it for 4 years, and she was prone to uneven HR. I thought I'd be safe, but when I stopped the VIOOX, that's when Afib happened one week later, and on the day I was due for arthroscopy to both knees. So I turned up at hospital with HR buzzing along at 120, and announced "I don't think you ought to operate today". I was kept at hospital overnight on drip with some drug, then allowed home, and a box of pills settled it down after 3 months.

But before the Afib, I also had just signed up a new boarder to share my house. An old friend landed with another friend of his, and his car engine blew, so he spent a week here fixing it, and although I felt calm, beneath the surface there was maybe a lot of subconscious anxiety.

I got the double arthroscopy in 2005, and had negligible knee pain after. No more pain killers like Celebrex or VIOOX were ever needed again. I was so good that in mid 2006 I got bike off the hooks, cleaned it up, and started regular cycling again and lost 20Kg in 6 months and I went from barely healthy to raging fit. This was all well before Pca was diagnosed in 2009.

But the arthroscopy was only a temporary knee fix. Knees went bad after 2014, then cycling was a bit on-off and I quit cycling in late 2015, and within 3 months I had second bout of Afib. But then I quit eating all meats, and knee pain lessened, and a course of pills stopped the Afib and I have had no Afib since. But Zytiga did give slight HR irregularities for about 9 months.

Nobody can really forecast what medical stuff happens to them.

I much prefer a knowledge based existence than one based on Blind Faith, that makes any marriage or business venture or career choice to be unsuccessful, short lasting, painful, and often accompanied by bankruptcy and poverty.

I did like the ladies I met and loved, but I managed to avoid ever being involved with one very special form of female house-keeper. This is the sub-species of Homo Womanus who with relentless private diligence constructs the most villainous account of your terrible manly deeds, then scurries off to the most ghastly lawyer who makes the worst vampire look tame and polite.

Then comes a humungous legal bill, and a statement which states that she is the sole house owner.

Not one woman ever tried that on me. I found no reasons for the misogyny I heard from so many men whose charm score with ladies was about -69.

I implored the girl I married to seek her own lawyer months after she'd left, and after her false perceptions had dulled, and before the property settlement in court. I did not want her to feel ripped off in later years later.

She found one, and he conferred with mine and both agreed she'd lose a legal battle because my settlement money offered was so fair. So I had no reason to be bitter after the divorce. I paid off a loan for that, and she bought a new motorcycle. In her care, I doubt it may have lasted very long.

I found a happy succession of ppl who were glad to share my house. Never again would marriage cause so much negativity. I could play with ladies, just never ever try to buy them, or expect them to belong with me.

My dentist is a most delightful lady of 48, and most highly perceptive, thus most beneficial to my teethen longevity on which I rely on to process the wholesome foods I like to chew. She is a far better technician than any previous male dentist. Two really bad ones saw 2 molars depart fast - due to their sloppy work. One was de-registered because of complaints against him.

I had a female doctor about 15 months before Pca diagnosis and I asked her for a referral to urologist for a digital examination. "just pop yourself up here on the bed and I'll do that now..." I was taken aback, but previously, we had got on exceptionally well because I was so utterly liberated and non threatening compared to the many sullen stand-offishness of so many blokes.

Well, the DE went on for about 20 seconds. She could not find the tell tale hard lumps often found and I felt no pain spots. So what she found was a much enlarged puffy soft mass, about 3 times larger than a normal PG.

It also felt very nice, and in 20 seconds I realised some men would visit a sex worker for a prostate massage, and that yes, gay anal sex would be a pleasure for the receiver, not just the giver.

I have never ever been inclined to seek anal intercourse, or any other form of prostate pleasure other than from being a happy thing done with a female, and none I ever met knew about PG massage. But I did find a minority of women under 25 who were astoundingly risky and fool hardy in their sexual conquests, and to me they were so boring, so uncool, and off putting. Another minority would never really learn about sex and orgasms and just wanted 3 kids, and a man was only a bag of semen who paid the bills. None of them attracted me.

In hindsight, I think my Pca was very well established at least 15 months before diagnosis and well before Psa went to 5.0.

Later DE was done by urologist, in-out in under 1 second, and just before diagnosis with biopsy. Maybe he hated having to do it, and he never said he found anything, so maybe the DE is done for legal reasons, not medical. The next was with one Miss India, an intern at hospital just before I had EBRT also in-out in a second, and somehow maybe it confirms the suspected size of PG, nothing more.

Patrick Turner.

interesting stories... you should expand them, since it sounds like your memory is way better than most. PG massage has been fun for me, with a few women, but DREs have been painful both times, both negative for masses but both confirmed BPH.

i have permanent, incurable Afib. Scarring has caused atrial muscles to harden, so i take metoprolol to keep HR steady and slowed. meditation also works wonders.

Years ago, i read an article about the 4 brainwave states and 1 brain rhythm, explaining it all very clearly. seems all 4 states are always going, but only 1 dominates at any one time interval. Sometime during absorbing this information and pondering its implications, i tried out locating the dream state, or delta waves, while in the waking (beta) state.... and suddenly discovered that every muscle in my body relaxed, as if i were a marionette and someone cut the strings.

all tension left me, and my mind went almost entirely blank, other than experiencing the immense joy of... liberation? after a while, everything came back to normal. i waited a few more minutes and then went searching for that "switch" that turned off the tension... and found it! i did this several more times and now have access to that switch anytime i want, no matter what level of physical and/or mental activity i'm in. has this cured my Afib? not at all. but i live without need of anti-depressants, alcohol, intoxicants of any kind. ain't no big deal but thought i'd share it here. i'm fairly sure the latest trendy thing about "mindfulness" is what's happening to me. i just discovered a short cut, without having to do the meditation to relax into it.

Some say Afib is not life threatening. By Afib, I have assumed it meant heart rate doubles, and stays doubled and in that state I felt weak if I did anything strenuous, but docs here take it very seriously as I found for the 2 admissions I made to emergency at the nearest local public hospital. But I have had much time where heart had uneven rate of beats, so maybe 50 most days, then with a series of rapid beats, or a few missing beats. I also found ADT caused hypotension. Not to be confused with hypertension, something I don't have. The hypo thing is dizziness after standing up after after sitting down at PC, or reading.

Once I went to doc for my monthly Lucrin inject and had HR 42 after previous weeks of cycling 300km a week. She thought I'd die, sent me to get ECG, but they found nothing. I did try to tell her real fitness reduces resting HR because the cardio vascular system is so improved by the exercise, my heart need only beat 42 times a minute while unfit ppl needed theirs to beat 65 times.

Migual Indurain was a similar tall man like me, but he won TDF 5 times in a row. His resting HR was 38 or less. He was big, heavy, but went up hills faster than the best.

Most of us must make-do with far less physical endowments.

I can often focus on the past, then kind of channel into it. If I open my diary I wrote for the time, it usually agrees. Diary is a stack of exercise books about 1.5Metres high. Sometimes I would hand it to women to read, "this is me," I'd say. They liked the honesty. But that made them feel worse about themselves. It will go to rubbish after I die.

I never found meditating did very much, but it did help to spend 15 minutes a day doing slow stretches of muscles in Hatha yoga type positions, while counting 1-20 slowly for each position. Psa never ever changed one bit so I don't believe meditation cures cancer. But one Ian Gawler, a vet, got a cure of bone cancer that was filmed in Oz in 1970s and he Began a meditation center in Victoria which gave him an income. I don't know if anyone else got a remission.

I went to a couple of group therapy gatherings for divorced ppl to explore ways to feel better. My ulterior motive was to meet women.

At the first, there were alcoholic men and mentally disturbed women weighed down by care of 3 wayward children. Lots of folks in a completely messy life. Not me. Sure I felt bad, but I was coping real well.

There was a group hug at the end. I refused to let them hug me. I was very choosy about who wrapped arms around me, with false words ringing in the air. Next togetherness session was years later, and another 7 chronically dysfunctional M+F mainly due to their chosen lifestyles. I really tried to be nice, but was just about to phone them to say I did not want to continue, when they phoned me to talk me out of staying. I had far too much common sense and I could infect ppl and that disturbed the leader's business model. If they became self reliant, they didn't need the therapy, no more BS, no more $$$$.

Life is therapy, so make the best of it. Just get on with it. Some folks are quite unable to.

I think I have sufficient mindfulness but I would never mind if someone convinced me I needed more mindfulness. Its such a rare treat to have a friend point out your failings. A few have for me, I was better for it. One of the best books I read was Reality Therapy, I forget who penned it, but really, only reality has any useful impact on anyone's mind, and it is caring to present it to those we care for. But oh how they squirm sometimes, and grow to hate us, and run away and hide.

Patrick Turner.

reality bores the livin bejeezuz outta me... it's all bad news. ok, 98%. the other 2% is in Ripley's Believe It Or Don't. have you read The Painted Bird, by Jerzy Kosinski? i think you'd dig it immensely - short stories, gotta be some serious reality sewn through the fiction... or vicey versy

I probably just don't seem to have the time for all those wonderful suggestions. I am always busy doing stuff. Last book was about life of Leonardo Da Vinci. Strange man, even by today's standards, but his art is superb, and so highly religious, which does not matter much, and he was quite gay, but back then Italy was in Renaissance time where the Church often overlooked the perverse sexuality of so many artists. I like Baroque period music, maybe my favourite. I look at some art of now, and it stings my eyes, and I listen to some "music" of now, and I search for the off switch.

But oncologists are now much better than those in 1480.

Patrick Turner.

co-wrote a screenplay The Black Time Machine - 4 kids steal a time machine and try to change history. was my italian-american co-writer's idea, hence leonardo had to play a major part, helping the 4 little hoodlums navigate through the space/time continuum.

which reminds me, you mentioned stephan hawking somewhere and i may have said this elsewhere, but apparently, hawking proved mathematically that the universe is indeed infinite. 'twas a mental mastrubation for me, to imagine an arrow shot skyward and able to just keep going into space, no resistance, would keep going until it reached the... end? boundary of the universe? but if there were no end? what would that be like? my first road trip across country in a VW bug, on an endless highway across texas felt like that. i was 18 and thru the years, i was to make 25 more such trips... had various friends in different states, had to see them periodically. i think of the tons of garbage i've pumped into american air. i hope there's no hell.

i think i'm gonna take an ADT vacation after the next PSA test, if it's still <0.1 - tits going beyond sensitive and into the painful range. then pec exercises up the wazoo.

RICH22 mentioned "up the wazoo" which us Oz ppl are unable to place, and assume it is a river in tropical regions where crocodiles are 15 metres long.

I have had very little trouble with ADT, ie, apart from extermination of all of Rodger's abilities to conduct consensual temporary pussy destruction.

The only time I had tit troubles was 3 years before diagnosis in 2009 when I weighed 102Kg and looked far too female to me in 2006. I got back on bike to ride vast distances and the fat just disappeared in 6 months, and has stayed off since. Once upon a time, estrogen was used to try to hold down Pca growth, and sure, then that would stimulate breast growth, maybe other things.

I got hot flushes in early ADT years, but nowhere near as many as most other fellows complained about - exercise is the key to shooing away so many treatment side effects. Very few hot flushes in last 5 years.

Perhaps infinity and eternity do exist. But what's outside infinity? And what happened before eternity began?

See, we'll die dumb because we have no real clue...…

Patrick Turner.

sure, the Wazoo River... criminy! too funny!

I cannot think of a fully suitable reply to your latest comment on Wazoo.

I am but a humble & insignificant bloke, and powerless to ease the suffering of others, other than share a common misfortune such as Pca, a truly vexatious disease that takes its time to kill us while perplexing most doctors, and we have the time to complain a lot about side effects and symptoms, often with false hopes that we might ever be cured.

At some point, the ideas cupboard of my mind could have become like a house where a chronic hoarder has lived for years, but because I am Mr Pragmatic, I like to keep the cupboard stocked with personal unity, where my emotions agree with perceptions I write about, and do not contradict my spending patterns. I have trouble with ppl telling me I should try the latest chemical in a bottle that you can buy online which stimulates the body to produce chemicals that the body ceased to make at about 19. These are in effect, Elixirs of Life, aka snake oil.

I know a man believes in this, but cannot give up smoking, even has both cigarettes and a vapor thinge in his pocket. Why can't you just give up nicotine I ask? Why can't you get rid of that pot belly? Why can't you do enough exercise? Why rely on an elixir stuff while allowing your addiction to nicotine? How can you allow the pot belly? He tells me to not put Sugarine ( sugar substitute with aspartame ) in my green tea, and says its causing kidney cancer, and feeding the Pca...… Well, did not sugar producers concoct a lot of negative fake info about aspartame?

Where is the evidence?

Too much aspartame is bad for your kidneys, but letting myself go to 140Kg by eating sugary garbage might be a lot worse. See how ppl have things not compliant to ideas of best practice to get longevity? See how so many have inconsistent behaviour. For example, when I gave up all red meat, it was consistent with my feelings about how badly many animals are "farmed" and treated between birth and slaughter. You cannot eat meat if you hate the production methods of the meat industry.

So my ideas cupboard does not have the discordant ideas about meat and nutrition. I do very very well without ever eating a steak.

I never bought a woman at a brothel. Sex involved wonderment, love, sharing and caring. I would not let my government con me to go to fight in Asian civil wars. Instead of waring, I worked to make Oz by building it with my two hands and mind. Live, and let live.

So far, so good, I have no enemies, except Puff The Magic Prostate Grenade, slowly exploding.

Patrick Turner.

Ya, the web is rife with snake-oil (or CBD oil, as the case may be) salesmen. Screw them sobs. However, I lean toward believing that we humans have near-magical immune systems that battle a gazillion rogue cancer cells and sometimes the effin cancer wins.

Given that these cells contain our own DNA, I’m convinced gene scientists will find how to destroy even the most complex cancers using our DNA... if they haven't already done so and are keeping it under wraps until the feckers figure how to capitalize on that crucial knowledge.

I cannot help feeling that Immune Therapy is likely to mature into allowing our nearly perfect immune systems to recognize our own cancer cells as being rogues. In many ppl immune system might even help cancer cells grow like it helps other healthy cells.

But the science is devilishly complex, examination of immune system is like a perfect Russian doll and you take the lid off the first to see inside, and another is found, and so on and on, and find cause and effect relationships is enough to bamboozle the keenest young minds on the Planet. Be grateful these heroes are looking so keenly through microscopes. Their minders might me holding their findings close to their stony hearts and minders of the minders can only think money thoughts. So Lord Noze what is really going on. Fear and ignorance of systems fertilizes conspiracy theories. This aberration of existence is part of the human condition. The hierarchy of knowledge ownership will delay us our cures.

But things could be so, so, much worse, like getting Pca treatment in say Syria, or Venezuela.

I'm getting a chance with Lu177. I have blood tests tomorrow, scans next week, suspicions will be converted into some facts, and I still may not know if any respite is to be gained.

Patrick Turner.

monte1111 profile image
monte1111 in reply to RICH22

I'd buy it in a second. We all like shortcuts.

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