Advanced Prostate Cancer
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A candid comment on cannabis

I have always been happy that I was introduced to smoking marijuana in Oakland, CA in 1967, when the Beatles' Sgt. Pepper album was popular. It added a tremendous source of amusement to life. For me, it meant that I never wanted to drink more than a beer a day, & nothing else.

Since then, having a smoke in the evening has gotten me through an MA, a law degree, a divorce, many stressful child abuse trials, & my PCa diagnosis & treatment. (Note that I didn't smoke until I was done studying or working).

I had high (excuse the pun) hopes that cannabis would be a cancer cure. So far, that doesn't seem to be the case. I was working with one treatment group until I had a drug interaction with gabapenten (neurontin) at a certain point. I realized that the "medicinal level" they advocated would have meant I'd be too stoned, & too much of the time--& they had no completed research to establish efficacy.

Despite the fact that cannabis is not, to date, a cancer cure, I believe my experience & that of many satisfied users establishes that it plays a positive role in the lives of many people, definitely including cancer patients. This is above & beyond its value in treating nausea from chemo.

Besides the stress relief it has provided me, it has enhanced the pleasure of many things: enjoyment of relationships with other people, enjoyment of music & other arts, enjoyment of entertainment, enjoyment of humor, enjoyment of natural beauty, enjoyment of reading, & even feeling better while doing chores. Life in the Trump era is stressful. Several comedians have jumped in to create humor at the expense of Trump & his associates that provides an outlet, if certainly not a cure. And they are all funnier after a couple of tokes.

I would caution that I'm speaking as a person who grew up without deep childhood traumas. Since my career--jobs & volunteer work--was in the field of child abuse & neglect, I know that all too many people are carrying a psychological burden that I don't have. So I can't pretend to speak to whether people with deep traumas will find cannabis beneficial or not. The same goes for those with wartime traumas. But I think it will benefit some with those backgrounds. It will certainly be more likely to benefit them than alcohol. This goes for everyone, actually. And the same applies to hard drugs.

Finally, I am aware that some people are not open to the idea that this (very unfairly) persecuted drug, one that is never fatal without adding a danger like driving, might provide them with a lot of pleasure & stress relief. I am also aware that some people are just too uptight to relax & let themselves get high. But if you're not like that, & especially if you can get legal cannabis products in your state, I think you may find cannabis a source of relief from the stress of having cancer, & a source of added pleasure in your life.

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Hi Neal-Snyder

Very well said for a man of your age.

As a matter of fact my regular golf partners which I play on every Wednesday is your age or older and I think they do enjoy my sense of humour and my company.

What the heck so if I am the law here in Australia I will just take a blind eye.

So me happy and continue to have a good spirit.

You will need them to battle this beast.

So this is my thought.

Roland

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Hi Roland,

I wrote a response to you when I replied to the other 2 guys. I must have failed to submit it. Thanks for your response. A good spirit, good sense of humor, good attitude, sense of optimism & being happy are all important for battling the beast--or for having a good life, period. Enjoy the golf & your other pleasures!

Neal

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Thanks for writing such an eloquent defense of much maligned drug. God knows it has helped me in all the ways you describe. I believe it has been a calming/centering agent during my various treatments and the stress and anxiety the produce. Three cheers, Neal

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Me too!!

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Thank you , Neal. Very well put.

F

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Thank you, Frank. I appreciate it.

N

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Thanks Neal, well written.

In the United States, we just witnessed a setback in the progress toward legalization of cannabis with Jeff Sessions reversing Obama's policies on cannabis.

I think if you just step back from the whole debate about legalization for a minute and ask: Should the government tell me what I can grow in my garden? It's such a ridiculous overreach of the government to outlaw cannabis. I like the way Timothy Leary said it "DNA did not work for fifty million years to produce a brain with all those receptor sites to have the government come along and say they're illegal —you can't activate those circuits of the brain." The entire "Drug War" is really an assault on presonal freedom as Ron Paul so very well articulates here:

cnn.com/2018/01/06/politics...

My feeling is this: If you don't like cannabis, feel free to not use it. But don't tell others what they can or can not put into their body.

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I voted for the successful legalization of Medical Marijuana in my state years ago in anticipation of someday benefiting from it. I voted for legalization of recreational pot. That didn't pass. A few months later, with prostate cancer as the qualifier, I got my Medical Marijuana card. I agree with you and Ron Paul on this subject.

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Thanks! That's my feeling too. The way I look at it, Cannabis is one more option I have to deal wth my cancer pain and other problems such as insomnia. I have used it for depression, pain and insomnia with good results for all 3.

I'm hoping it will lessen the need for more the addictive opiates. I'm glad they will also be available, but hoping to be able to use them sparingly as long as possible.

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I don't even know if I can use the opiates. One Vicodin & I'm constipated.

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That happened with my dad. He had big problems with severe constipation. That stuff scares me because of it.

I took a trip to Portugal before I started treatment and had to see a doctor there I was in so much pain. He prescribed something called Tapentadol. I was impressed with how well it worked and the lack of side effects. He said it's one of the better ones for longer term use. Fortunately I didn't need it for long, but had no problems with constipation. It's one of the newer opioid-based pain killers with an improved side effect profile. It was FDA approved in 2008. It will probably be something I use again if needed. I would definitely recommend it if you need something reasonably strong.

Here's part of the Wikipedia page on it:

Tapentadol is used for the treatment of moderate to severe pain for both acute (following injury, surgery, etc.) and chronic musculoskeletal pain. It is also specifically indicated for controlling the pain of diabetic neuropathy when around-the-clock opioid medication is required.[1][9]

Its general potency is somewhere between that of tramadol and morphine,[5] with an analgesic efficacy comparable to that of oxycodone despite a lower incidence of side effects.[1][10]

For the full article:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapen...

Of course you should ask your doctor if this or any other medication is right for you before taking it.

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Gregg. you are a fount of useful & interesting information!

I didn't have constipation until after a PCa tumor caused a spinal cord compression in 9/11. I went from playing hoops almost daily for fun & exercise (usually alone, or with male relatives or friends), working on my yard, of course driving, etc., to emergency spinal surgery at Kaiser Oakland, to 4 weeks of rehab at Kaiser Vallejo to begin learning to walk again. By that time, I was starting to use a walker some of the time, but otherwise still in a wheelchair. I left the wheelchair behind 3 months later, & moved on a few months later to crutches used as walking sticks, & then walking on my own again to regaining my driver's license.

The constipation was awful during rehab. After months it settled down to an extra-strength laxative twice a day, & it's stayed there. It's still a problem sometimes, but not as awful.

Meanwhile, the spinal cord stuff also caused central pain syndrome in my legs; it's only strong from the ankles down. It's similar to neuropathy, except it comes from the central nervous system. I'm on max doses of gabapentin (neurontin) that only partially control it (but I'd be lost without it). After trying everything else that a neurologist could come up with, I tried morphine once, with predictable constipating iresults. I tried some things with a pain doctor. A super-strength capsaicin patch treatment in his lab took care of the awful buzzing in my toes, & I'm just living with the rest.

Anyway, although I mostly keep my mind off the future, I worry about what I could do, in addition to cannabis, when I'm in serious pain. So your message is a big relief to me, & I'm grateful.

Neal

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That doctor in Portugal was really interesting. I had foolishly gone on a business trip thinking I'd be O.K. At that point I knew there was good chance I had metastasic cancer, but was still waiting for my bone biopsy to come back. The flight over there was very difficult since I bascially got no sleep for over 24 hours. I was a complete wreck when I got there, needed wheelchair assistance at the airport. I asked to see a doctor right away for my pain. The doctor comes to hotel room (he charged only $40 for this) I was really afraid at that point that I had a fracture somewhere. So he moved my legs around in different ways for about 5 minutes, asking each time if there was any pain. I answered "no" every time. He said "you don't have a fracture". I said, "I'll pay for an x-ray." He replied, "It's free here, but you don't need it." He wrote me a prescription for some sleep meds, a few weeks supply of Tapentadol for pain and a laxative in case I needed it. (I never needed it) The people I was working for went to the pharmacy to get it. They brought it back and said "I'm sorry, but this was expensive". "How much?" I asked. "30 Euros." I was expecting it to a lot, but 30 Euros? That's expensive?

So when I got back to the US, my doctor was really worried about the possibility of fractures. I needed to get a CT, regular X-rays and an MRI right away to check for fractures. So I did everything. $700+ in co-pays later and guess what? No fractures.

So that doctor in Portugal was either really lucky or damn good. And all for around $75.

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Maybe our doctors are overly cautious because they're too worried about liability. We have been happy with medical care in Thailand, although I haven't used it for PCa except for labs my MO wanted.

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Neal , my wife put me onto Miralax powder when I started treatment. Have been on all types of opiods and no problem with constipation. Just mix it into your coffee and there is no taste

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A great dislike for opiates also..

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Thank you, Gregg--yours is also well written. Although I'm a progressive & not a libertarian, both groups take the same stance on cannabis.

Sessions & Trump are a couple of racists. The war on drugs is designed to lock up primarily young men of color.

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A transference of slavery for those of color. Nothing new just the name has changed.

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I agree with your comments & appreciate your sending me the story. I can believe, as Ehrlichman's kids insist, that he wasn't a racist, but his boss certainly was. I was growing up in CA while Nixon was on the rise, & my parents were telling me what a slimeball he was. They got an automated phone call saying "Helen Gahagan Douglas is a Communist!" She was his opponent for US Senate, I believe it was.

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I have never smoked marijuana and never will - I regard it as stupid. I have seen the brain damage it's caused in others. Although I wouldn't know, I have read that the stuff today is many times more potent than the '60s stuff.

But, ask yourself - is it wise to ingest burning specks of carbon into your lungs from whatever source - tobacco, marijuana, wood smoke? I don't think so.

We should probably keep the political comments off this post. I'm not sympathetic to Neal-Snyder's or some others' positions and see no need to have them aired here.

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I'm sorry I offended you. I had a very successful career trying complex, difficult child abuse cases, & serving in a leadership role at the national, state & local level. From what I've seen & read, the brain damage is if you start smoking while your brain is developing. I forgot to mention this important point. I was 26 when I started. Of course you're right that marijuana now is more potent than back in the day. I absolutely think no one should smoke it until they're adults, & preferably over 21.

The studies show that smoking marijuana does not cause lung cancer. Cannabis is a very different plant from tobacco, or firewood.

Cannabis has recognized medical value in combatting glaucoma, chemo side effects, etc. Its full potential value is unknown, because the prohibition in effect since the '30s has prevented the needed medical research. This isn't just our current leaders. I was deeply disappointed in Pres. Obama for failing to have cannabis removed from Schedule 1, which is for drugs with no known medicinal value. It simply doesn't belong there. I'm frustrated because there have been small studies showing a possible effect against PCa, but our political leaders, of both parties, have prevented the research that might have resulted in a useful treatment for us PCa patients. I was hoping at least that the federally enforced ban on what states want to do was over, & we wouldn't be expending our resources on locking up young people & interfering with state-approved suppliers.

This is a repeated issue on PCa websites & in PCa discussion groups. It has to do with a policy that is deeply & directly important to us, so I think it is an exception to discussing politics. Perhaps I went over the line in stating what I think is motivating the new repressive approach.

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I forgot that a couple of us went off into a side discussion involving Nixon, etc. I can see where that may have been out of line, although it was interesting to me as it happened. So your point is well taken on that side discussion.

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I'm sorry if I offended any Nixon supporters.

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That conversation just happened, & we both enjoyed it. I don't know how to do a side conversation, but I should learn.

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There is a "chat" icon at the top of the screen. You can use that to do private messages. We can talk there about things like science without fear of offending anyone.

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Thanks, Gregg.

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Everything in America is political. And theres a clear division on many issues .I definatly will use that icon so not to offend those with opposing views about Marijuana and political issues such as health care. A political hothead and nightmare for many of us.. Freedom of speech should rule. Who the hell could be a Nixon supporter at this point in time?

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Edibles, properly injested

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Are you talking about not ingesting too much, because you don't know how stoned you'll be when you digest it?

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I make my own. Put one healthy pinch. Never too much

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Excellent!

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Prostate cells have cannabinoid receptors. Prostate cancer cells have materially more cannabinoid receptors than non-cancerous ones.

It is likely that cannabinoids from smoking or ingesting cannabis either retard or accelerate the growth of prostate cancer.

No one know for certain which. Dr. Myers of Virginia told me that from his subjective observation of his patients. It appeared to him likely cannabis accelerates the growth of prostate cancer cells.

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And other scientists have other opinions. Most believe that smoking is too weak to have any effect. It seems to me that you need a concentrated oil extracted from a cannabis plant to possibly affect PCa cells, & that such a treatment would be far more likely to retard than accelerate. But thanks to the federal government's long-term interference with cannabis research, we don't know the answer.

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What scientists have these opinions regarding cannabis and pca?

There are jurisdictions where you you can do clinical studies.

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I can't give you any citations. I've been reading stuff for decades & not taking notes. Right now I'm on vacation in Thailand. Are you saying that there are jurisdictions in the US that can do studies with better cannabis plants than those the feds limit everyone else to? Do you know what their studies have shown?

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Israel and Australia. Soon Canada. I think India. Probably others. If you have the money there are places to conduct the studies legally.

To my knowledge there are no Cannabis/ Prostate cancer studies on which any scientist can base an opinion.

Myers practice was limited to about 1000 prostate cancer patients.

He casually noticed whenever he saw patients flaunting their use of cannabis (and I think "flaunting" is perhaps an accurate and descriptive word) it always seemed to be associated with aggressive cases of prostate cancer. He suspected a causality. Or so he told me.

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It's great that other countries are trying to fill in for the politically-motivated failure of the US. The tobacco lobby, liquor lobby, & law enforcement lobby are having their way with our politicians. To my knowledge also, there is no solid answer yet from anyone's research.

I admire Snuffy. I've seen him speak at the PCRI conference twice, & known very intelligent patients who appreciated him greatly & were sorry when he retired. Let's face it, he was out of his element in drawing the conclusion he shared with you.

I hope what I did in deciding to write this post, which I thought would reduce some of the confusion I've seen about what value, if any, cannabis might have to us guys, wasn't flaunting. My PCa is not aggressive. Gleason 3+4, 2003.

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England was doing human studies. That was where I first learned of the benefits and why I decided to try the cannabis oil for my husband. I don't want to rewrite what I've already written about how much benefit he gained from it, but I will say it improved his life in so many ways. Charlean

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Charlean, it's great to hear from you, & thank you very much for your comments. How are you doing?

I've been far more fatigued since going on Xtandi. I'm not as effective or energetic. When I took 4 softgels, I crashed in the evening. I went down to 3. Now I can stay awake & watch some TV with my wife, but not much more than that. Actually, if there's a family party, I do just great.

We just got to Thailand a couple of days ago, & somehow I'm doing a lot better. Yvonne noticed it & commented. It's nice to be more normal!

I hope you're doing well & enjoying your family. We went up to 4 grandsons last May. We're all very happy because my son & his wife now have a child, like his older sisters who have a total of 3.

Neal

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Hi Neal. Sorry to hear that Xtandi is hard for you. It was terrible for Harley and didn't work long at all. Best of luck with that stuff.

I am doing pretty well. I had mono 20 years ago and the Epstein Barr virus has caused a lot of autoimmune stuff. After Harley passed, it reactivated and caused me a lot of new problems, mostly recently Sjogrens, bursitis and chronic fatigue. I am tired of drs who just want to give you pills or injections instead of dealing with the causes so I am going to functional Dr tomorrow. Hoping for some real help. I am also considering trying the oil myself.

I did take a wonderful trip to Italy with my amazing granddaughter in Sept. It was something I always wanted to do. She headed off to Cal Poly the day after we returned and I miss her so much. She is my protector, tries to do everything to make things easier for me.

I am doing all that I can to avoid stress. Dr said it is what caused all the flares, especially right after Harley died. Those months of caring for him in the wheel chair took a real toll on me as well. Politics is also stressful. People I thought were friends have said such emotional but thoughtless things and I am appalled at the hatefulness around me. I am conservative in California...also very stressful. I also don't get on here much- as its hard.

Life is simpler and still lonely at times, but I am getting stronger. I still pray each night for all of you and am grateful for all the help we got from those here-fighting the same battle. Have fun in Thailand and hope you keep feeling!

Charlean

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Hi Charlean. I'm sorry about all the health problems & stresses you've had to face. I hope the functional doc is really helpful. I'm glad to hear the positive overall trend in your life. Italy, a wonderful granddaughter, stress avoidance, etc. Maybe some oil.

I'm also grateful for the others here on this site. I got in touch with 1 guy & he got me into a really good group in Walnut Creek.

Xtandi is obviously not going to be the great benefit that Zytiga was. It's not doing well controlling my PSA, but my dr say we can ride it as long as there's no progression. He says that is understood to be the real issue nowadays, rather than mere PSA scores. I'm encouraged by how much better I'm handling the fatigue & brain fog since we got here.

It's good to be back in touch. I've always found you to be a very admirable & sympathetic person.

Neal

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Charlean, I recommend the canaby oil, you must ease into it for sure. But if it works for you as it has for me , you won’t want to do without it .. Not a physical dependency , but without maintaining a daily dose in your system you ll feel all of the things that the canaby relieves..Anyone can say there’s no med use for canaby. No scientific evidence .Im stating my personal experience..A draw back is the cost. You need a freiend that grows and that can give you the material for free .. then make your own ..

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Thanks, I will definitely give it a try. I know how much it helped my husband and I also know how expensive it is! But can't put a price on your health, right?

Charlean

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Everything has a price..You can find a way .

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Absolutely~

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No it isn’t. Not at all. That is fake news as it so popularly called in the US.

There have been tests in vitro, but none in vivo in the UK. There was one on glioblastoma in Spain, in which ALL the participants died within a year.

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While I don't remember the paper that I read, it was a report from a university in England. Even if I misunderstood it I know all of the incredible health benefits it gave my husband. It got him off nearly off of his diabetes meds, his blood pressure meds, his high cholesterol meds, and ended the neuropathy he suffered with for years. It helped him sleep through the night and helped with pain. I don't care if the it didn't cure him, it gave him FAR more quality of life than any of these drugs you all take. Charlean

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TommyTV, Additionally, he was able to get off of the hydrocodone and fentanyl patch that he'd used for years for neuropathy, when the doctors told him he could never stop using those pain meds. For all the people hooked on opiates, I would suggest that this is one true way to get off these drugs, when they really want to. I have never used cannabis but after all that it did for my husband, I would always advocate that this drug has some amazing and useful abilities beyond just smokers wanting to get high.

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Helps my neuropathy also.

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Neal,

I just noticed that you are in my 'neck of the woods'. It's 9:10 PM, Sunday evening here in Pattaya.

Cheers, Ron

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We're up in Chiang Mai, Ron. Do you live here or are you visiting?

Cheers, Neal

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6pm and wife just asked me if I want my canaby ..my answer is “ of course”! Make our own oil and, I.ve continuously used it for 3 yrs. for sure , not for everyone. I benifit from it daily ..

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Politics.? hmmmmmm

Good Luck and Good Health.

j-o-h-n Sunday 01/14/2018 1:04 AM EST

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I'm not too sure which way you, & Lulu below, are reacting. But if you had a negative reaction to my comments, please see my response to Stegosaurus, above. Thank you.

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Actually, 2 responses to Stegosaurus. I just added another.

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Well to quote Shakespeare's Hamlet "DOOBIE OR NOT DOOBIE THAT IS THE QUESTION".

Good Luck and Good Health.

j-o-h-n Sunday 01/14/2018 12:44 PM EST

p.s. I try to keep the humor in and politics out...

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Thanks for the laugh, John!

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Another question. How did I get here.. humor in politico out.. no winning political debates

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Now that's a lo͞olo͞o of a question......

Good Luck and Good Health.

j-o-h-n Monday 01/15/2018 10:00 PM EST

Remembering MLK jr.

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You the same. Who’s got the answers? Certainly not me. Thanks for the humor! He had a dream. What happened?

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He took the holiday off...

Good Luck and Good Health.

j-o-h-n Tuesday 01/16/2018 12:01 AM EST

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I have no negative thoughts at all to anyone or to any thing said. freedom to speak . You can please some of the people some of the time, but there is no room for being offended by a co members words or thier beliefs. Equal rights to express ourselves.

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????? Hmmmm , I agree..to

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Please see my response to John. Thanks.

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Make that responses.

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Hi Neil,

I have never smoked ANYTHING in my entire life and I'm afraid of inhaling any type of smoke, even at the ripe old age of 74. If my PCa ever progresses to the point where I need something to help me cope, can cannabis be effective in other forms such as brownies? However, the other issue that concerns me is getting caught with illegal drugs here in Thailand...long sentences in horrible jails; no 'country clubs' here.

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Hi Ron,

You're in Thailand too? I meant to put in my message, but I forgot, that I NEVER BRING ANY CANNABIS PRODUCT TO ANY PLACE WHERE IT'S ILLEGAL, NOR DO I GET IT THERE! Certainly not in Thailand! Do you live here full time?

I also failed to mention that I do not find cannabis to be addictive. I can smoke it regularly at home in CA, & go cold turkey while we take extended trips. The one we just started is over 2 months, mostly here but also Vietnam. I used to miss it a bit at first, but now I'm used to just enjoying myself sober when we travel.

But if you're going to be somewhere where you can go to a dispensary & buy "edibles," or create them on your own, the answer is yes, it's perfectly effective. While smoking works instantly, you have to wait 20 minutes to an hour to digest the brownie, cookie or whatever before you feel it. Be sure to start with a small portion & don't eat any more until you see how stoned you get. A dispensary can advise you about an appropriate portion.

Neal

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Hi Neal,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I live in Naklua, Thailand. I have been here for almost 13 years and have also made numerous trips to Vietnam. So far I am very fortunate in that I haven't had to start ADT yet and still feel fine. Where in Thailand are you at this time and how long will you be here?

Ron

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We're in Chiang Mai, where we rent an apt every time we come. In a couple of weeks, a guy I've known since we were kids will visit from the US. We'll show him around & eat wonderful food. Then we'll go to Bangkok & do the same. Then he'll go home & we'll come back here. The visit to Vietnam will be in March, & we'll be in Bangkok again briefly. We're going to Hoi An & Danang this time.

That's great about how well you're doing!

What brought you to Thailand, & specifically to Naklua? Are you working or retired? Are the Vietnam trips for fun or work?

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Neal,

Leaving for Korat in the morning...will catch up with you when I return on Wednesday. My email address is: ronpitelka@yahoo.com

ราตรีสวัสดิ์ Have a nice night.

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Edibles and the best form for APC is in my option suppository before bed. A lot of benifits are lost eating edibles due to the digestion process. Suppository is almost dirrect application to the prostate. You don’t receive the big high at night because you’re as

Asllp and you’ll have great sleep and dreams. Up until 1986 or there about ,the king of Thailand pardoned prisoners and instituted the death penalty for drug smuggling. Before that some brave hearted fellows used to bring us Thai - stick in thier sailboats.. No more.. be careful in Thailand .. as you know respect the Buddha’s and the local law.

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I sure know & no doubt ronron does about Thailand. The Americans brought the drug wars here, partly for the better & partly not. As to the Buddhas, for years we didn't know it was wrong to wear a Buddha T-shirt or something, & many were sold. Then they put up signs as you leave the airport, & I stopped wearing or buying the T-shirts. No 1 had said anything to me; the Thais tend not to confront people. Anyway, other than that, my wife & I have always been very respectful with our clothing & behavior on entering wats, etc.

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It is all about respecting others. Isn’t it the Buddhist path. Haven’t seen but would love to see their culture. peace and good health to you.

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Not legal in Missouri at this time, might have to try it if it gets worse

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Too bad it's illegal where you live, Larry. How about a neighboring state?

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Well spend some time in Arizona. Will check out a med card there

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Good! Let us know how that goes.

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I am in Az.

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In the south , it might be awhile if ever..

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For those concerned about lung damage from smoking cannabis, an alternative is to use a vaporizer. Still breathing in the vapor but supposed to be less irritating or damaging than smoke. Of course there is also edibles. I am a live and let live libertarian who doesn't like the government acting as my parent and telling me what plant I can or cannot grow or can or cannot consume. I do have a MM card but I don't indulge that often. BTW, there is one cannabis side effect that is almost never mentioned. When a six month eligard shot gave me gynecomastia I was sent to a woman's clinic for a mammogram (wasn't that fun). I asked if all the men they saw were prostate cancer patients. No, they said that they see many young men who are heavy cannabis users. Even on their admitting form there was a box they asked you to check on whether you were a pot user.

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Thanks for mentioning vaporizers & edibles. For those able to shop at a dispensary, you'll be assisted by a staff member who can discuss what you're interested in & what products might suit you best. There are different strains of marijuana that have different effects, like making you feel more social, or more relaxed & possibly sleepy, or able to get work done at home but in a better mood. Then there are different ways of consuming it. And concentrates are another story.

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I think I heard about the gynomastia among heavy users. I have never been, & I don't recommend that anyone become, a heavy user. It should be a treat, not a lifestyle. It should not interfere in your relationships with other people. For instance, I'm always sober when I'm with a grandchild, & I was always sober with my parents when they were alive. Whether you're going to be stoned around a spouse or partner should involve them, if not participating, at least not being upset by it. Your spouse or partner should enjoy your company, & not think you're acting like a fool. You should make an effort to behave in a way that your significant other will enjoy being around you. I was able to be stoned around my children sometimes when they were growing up because it makes me more fun to be with, & we had fun at those times without them suspecting why I was in a great mood.

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Possibly many men with bad diets and sedentary couch potatoe eating Cheetos playing videos with other bad habits. Its said with long term use to lower libido. That’s something we already deal with . But I have signs of the man boobs a little so it could be a factor. But for me the benifits far outwheigh That problem ..I blame no testosterone in almost all of my side effects. There is no down side for me with the use of canaby. Sativa products during daylight and indicas at night to sleep. Good luck..

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Simply put--knowing much on this subject--I will not expound on the data , and try to create proofs, or non proofs, and add the personal experiences of other cancer patients, I have known personally, and their use of Mary Jane.

IMO including my Uro Surgeon--the use will be very beneficial: in calming fears of the disease, allowing for very restful sleep, increasing appetite which gets lost with Chemo, or other drug modalities, reduces pain significantly, and according to some papers---can reduce the aggressiveness of cancers, by some unknown action, from the activity of the key ingredients[THC/CBD]

I am not a fan of smoking--this, as there are over 400 compounds, and broken up molecules released into the lungs, when all we really want is the THC, and CBD OIls

Now as a part of that 60's Generation and being an Organic Synthesis Chemist at just that time, in my working life---I did synthesis pure THC, for personal use. I could not do it today---first I have no lab--and you cannot buy certain chemicals without the DEA showing up at your door.

I am a fan of using THC, THC/CBD---which you can get in Colorado, and California, possible now in Washington D.C. and Florida. In the western states, you can even get certifications as to purity. So if you can obtain--one or 2 drops under the tongue, will give you what you will want without smoking it. If you cannot obtain the oils, but can obtain the weed itself:

Then my suggestion, would be not to smoke it but to consume it. First you decarboxilate, by spreading the weed on a baking sheet---placing in a pre-heated oven at 220 degrees---for 30 minutes. This activates all the goodies---and can be place in candy, cookies, brownies, smoothies, after you pulverize in a grinder. As to how much to take---you would have to experiment--it depends, on how strong in THC the starting weed was, and how much of a buzz you want or need. You can literally going from being slightly giddy and feel good, to knocking yourself out cold. So Be Careful.

I have spoken by phone with legitimate sellers of the Oils In California---and they custom make the oils to fit your wants and needs---they have consultants at some of the locations, and they do provide compounding of the THC/CBD for many cancer patients---they have much more experience, than our Doctors, or those that provide research papers---they actually have experience on the battlefields, against cancer. I was very impressed with my conversations, and their compounding expertise.

No, I am not a user---would like to be, but I am in a State, far away from good sources, and is Illegal still. My Doctor, said if it was available he would write the script for me in an instant, And he is not a product of the 60's. That"s my take on the subject---for those that can obtain, I hope I left interesting info above.

Nalakrats

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Hi Nal,

Thank you for a great contribution to the conversation I started. I don't know if I mentioned the help with sleeping, but it's worked for me a huge number of times. Thanks for mentioning the appetite stimulation.

Oops, my wife just got up & told me it's 1 AM here in Thailand, & I was going to get to bed early. So more later.

Neal

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Take an early swim---enjoy.

Nalakrats

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No pool, but thanks, Nal.

I hope NC catches up with CA before long!

It certainly is the oils & other concentrates that have more potential to actually combat cancer. I read some research findings that indicated that all the cannabinoids in a plant appear to operate synergistically to do that. In other words, although THC & CBD are most important, you don't want to throw the others out. A whole-plant extract may be best.

I appreciate the reminder about oil over smoking. For a while, my dispensary (largest in CA) had a 5:1 CBD:THC whole-plant extract oil that suited me well. It was grown for them, & they said they'd still have it after we got back from our trip in March. Sadly, the word got out & people came from all over the country, & cleaned them out before we got home. They kept thinking another crop was on the way, but it didn't happen. I did try a 4:1, but it was a little stronger than what I wanted. I like to be pleasantly loaded in the evening, but perfectly capable of reading & otherwise enjoying the evening without feeling like it's knocking me for a loop & I need to lie down.

They brought in another company that had softgels, which were nice since putting a bit on a fingertip is awfully imprecise. However, they were too high in THC. They had a nurse advising me on increasing my intake toward a supposed medicinal dose. After 1 increase--too big an increase all at 1 time, I believe--I had an unpleasant reaction. I worked with my PCP & we "cured" it by bringing down my gabapentin until the bad feeling went away. By that time, my feet were screaming at me! I haven't had a concentrate since, other than hashish. But thanks to your message, I'm inspired to check what's available after I get back (not that I couldn't look at their menu right now online, but it can wait).

Neal

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There are compounders at certain dispensary's that will formulate to your exact requirements---sorry I do not have the contacts anymore--but I did directly with 2 compounders at 2 different dispensary's, about a year ago---both in California.

Nalakrats

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That's great info, Nal. Good chance mine would do it, or be able to refer me. Sounds like there's 5:1 in my future!

Neal

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Very interesting process in pursuit of creating edibles. My knock on edibles is that often you don't know what strain went into them or there just isn't much choice. I'm going to have to look into this, thanks. No problem for me to get the raw materials.

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Wish you could get me some--at my age--I do not have any contacts---so I would have to fly somewhere.

Nalakrats

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Come to CA, get a medical marijuana recommendation online, go to a dispensary (I recommend Harborside in Oakland), & make purchases with the advice of a friendly, knowledgeable staff member. Or skip the recommendation & go as a recreational buyer. I imagine you can still consult with the staff on your purchasing decisions. Let me know when you're coming.

Neal

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I live in AZ. I have the MM card but I believe that they don't allow non residents to either get a card, or honor out of state cards.

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I’ll have to check this out as I spend most of the winter there

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Yeah, they require an AZ driver's license when you apply for a card and dispensaries don't honor out of state cards.

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Or know someone??

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Make your own

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In ca. And co.. they are producing so many varied forms .. You definately have a choice in edibles of indica or sativa. This is a huge industry. It’s just not a bunch of stoners growing in there back yard, although they are also there. There are professionals in every field getting intto this for the money. There is a big following in the USA that M. M. Is helping many. I have a friend just told 6m to live with Hpv turned to cancer in : tongue , throat huge tennis ball tumors around his caroted artery .. The oil was helping him thru a hellish existence. It for sure didn’t cure his cancer but it got him thru hell .He went to Dr. Vargas clinic in Tiajuana. Supposed low dose RT and Chemo for 2 was. Came back suffered tremendously in a hotel foe 2 was No more big lumps on neck One tiny one. He’s going back this week for another round . 3 wk 20 k .. He was practically chugging down 2 or more gram of strong indication RSO a day. Now just a little before bed. Suppository is the best form of m. M. For prostate , a direct application if you still have a pprostate as I do. For those that can’t tolerate tha thc high , the suppository at night your probably high when our dreaming pleasant thought. That my experience up to date with RSO. Good luck ..

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You have once again (said it all,and wrapped it up in a nutshell. ) Great info .

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Nobody offended me - that would be a VERY difficult thing to do since I don't really care what anyone else thinks of me. (I'm a really cool dude.)

But I'm in this group for insights into my prostate cancer. There are plenty of other forums which deal with politics, New Age lifestyles, etc., etc. If I'm interested in those subjects, I can go to them. That's my two cents on the subject which I will now totally drop.

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I'm glad you weren't offended. And I certainly get your point. I complained about politics & religion in the Yahoo group, so thanks for the reminder.

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Good man! I state too many personal opinions .We come from all walks of life. yours is as important as anyone’s. Don’t drop.

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Stegosaurus37 ---------> FIST BUMP<--------- j-o-h-n

Good Luck and Good Health

j-o-h-n Sunday 01/14/2018 1:02 PM EST

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As far as inhaling toxins from a few tokes here and there, I'm much more concerned about the gram of pure cytotoxic poison I had injected directly into my vein during chemotherapy. I know this is pure speculation on my part, but that was probably worse.

Telling a terminal cancer patient that using Cannabis to help with pain is bad because of breathed in toxins is like warning a hospice patient that their morphine drip may be addictive.

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Good one, Gregg!

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I no longer need to post I’ll just read yours .Your on it.

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Well said. My doctor said not to worry about getting hooked on the opiods ,when you are going to die of cancer who cares if a little pot use is enjoyed or helps with the process

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after trtmt. Provenge for prostate cancer I was sicker than when starting...big problem,,extreme fatigue and mostly no appetite at all...tried a pill by prescription with cannabis ...made me sick..tried a candy with it ..supposed to have appetite no....

Someone said to smoke a marijuana and that wd. do it....not legal in IL...

Wish it wd. have helped.

sidnw

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When I started treatment the only thing I could manage to get down was potato’s and gravy. And on occasion some chicken and pink lemonade, it took a while but slowly my taste buds came back as my hair went away 😜😜

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I searched for people who have tried marijuana as a cure, and found only two good detailed experiences. Neither one worked.

One guy (in Thailand to keep the thread themes going), basically followed the Rick Simpson method and ate a proper diet and over a 2-3 year period saw little change in his PSA...started with 20 and ended at 20. Maybe no change is a victory.

The chemistry looks right for marijuana to work. The dosages are unknown but everyone agrees the amounts prescribed are pretty high.

My opinion that its worth a try, why not. I'm doing a 1:1 vape, but only at home after work so I'm sure my dosage is way too small. Here in Vegas there's not much inventory for THC:CBD 1:1 to 1:5. I hope this improves and gets cheaper!

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There is (no ) cure for metastatic APC .But I’ll take anything that I feel helps me and doesn’t hurt me. All treatments strike our immune systems and degrade us somewhat. It’s up to an individual how you’re going to cope with side effects. I keep an open mind .Any form

Of Thc promotes a higher conscience .One needs an open mind to enjoy it. What do I have to lose?

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Thanks for your comments, Lulu. I like to think that when cannabis gives us pleasure, it stimulates our immune systems. Whether that's true or not, for those of us who enjoy it, I agree: what do we have to lose?

Neal

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Dx 3 yrs ago used RSO 60 gym in 90 days 3 times already .presently doing 1/10 of a gram per day. All very potent. Have had no viable signs and PSA >.04 For last yr and a half . Docs just say hatevet you’re doing keep doing it.. I’m also under the care of a naturalpathic Dr. I am not saying that MM has cured my cancer, but my belief be it placebo or not is strong because I receive relief from this oil and plan a continued maintenance dose until I choose not to. Don’t see that happening anytime soon. Good luck on this voyage.

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Lulu, please tell us more about what your Rick Simpson Oil experience has involved. Have you been loaded around the clock, or are you sober during the day? How loaded have you been? Can you live a halfway normal life? When you say you receive relief, are you referring to control or your PCa, emotional relief or both? Thank you.

Neal

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On RSO ,it all depends on dosing how high you get . Recommended a1/2 gram of rice amount per day and YES ! If Youre not already a heavy user it will loop you out pretty good in the beginning 2wks , I was semi ambulatory ie; neauphostmy tubes and all of those urological pains and complication of a constant foley as well as constant uti’s and infection + radiation .I was suffering a bit. My first round of RSO. So I didn’t mind the knock out effect .You will build a tolerance in a few weeks of doubling that 1/2 grain until in the end when you will be doing a gm then up 2 two gms a day .I was in Radiation full dose ,5per wk for 2months strait in Tucson in a 115 degree heat wave.. 2nd time I did full dose it was much easier. Much of potency depends on the specific oil and how it’s made.. If you are a high strung or nervous person or fighting fear ,stress ,or anger , I’d only use a pure indica strain .I grew up in the sixties believed in better living thru all things at our resources to expand our minds.Understanding that anything can be abused or overused. I’ have always felt that Marijuana is good for certain people ...Also i know many that can not tolerate it. .not pyhsically but phycologically most common paranoia. If you’re a paranoid person , probably not for you. Most of the 55 million Americans that are using Marijuana in the US today are not tryin to convince anyone else to use it .. and they are not profiting from the sales but instead paying full retail at high priced dispensaries. These people just want to protect their rights of freedom and the pursuit of happiness..It would be logical if Medical Marijuana was federally legal and decriminalized.But how much wisdom and logic is there in government? Unless you work for, Or profit directly from government the answer is usually the same. Very little. ...urological issues have prevented me from working. Living below poverty level with SS disability. Everybodys down on welfare until you need it your self .Thank god for the help .That is a fine function of government .. To help those in need ,Thanks FDR! Probably implode by 20/30 No one can say scientifically that’s MM has helped my APC because RT and Adt are the driving

forces that have radically taken down the APC , For now , not without side effects ..And side effects are what I get help with from Mm including calming anxiety and nerves among many others. And that’s all any of us can ask for,. For now! Live for today and amplify the good times and the love in your life. Sorry to ramble or for being too political.. You know what they say about opinions ? Everybody’s got one.

Take care..

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Lulu 700. You are correct, my wife and doctor keep pounding on me that if it makes me feel better do it, that includes naps, Dailey Utv rides, or taking a extra pin med once in a while if I need it.

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My astute naturalpathic doc says anything that we can do to feel better and that relieves symptoms, hey go for it. Infared sauna awesome for us also.

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